A simple Arguement

[Red Menace]

Okay, I often find myself pinned in a corner, when I argue communism with other people. They say the blandest thing over and over again. I don't know how to combat it. "They say Communism will never work. It goes against human nature. It's perfect in theory, and on paper, but it is just not practical." I just don't know how to argue against it. Usually other points people bring up, I can hold my own, and even at times get them to shut their mouths. So what should I say?

[BreadBros]

Even though I'm not a big fan of him, you could maybe use the Socratic method to continue questioning them until you show the complete baselessness of their ideas.

Ask things like:
"What does constitute human nature?" If they say things like "capitalism" or "democracy" ask them why humans lived under feudalism where individuals were all serf peasants with no rights and all power was based on birthright, for several hundred years. Ask them if the society we live in is some kind of end, or is it not true in fact, that human society has been radically changing every so often for the past 15,000 years. Ask them if communism is against human nature, then how is it possible that humans likely had communal property for the first several hundred-thousand years of their existence.

Attack their knowledge of Communism:
Ask them to define communism, and correct them (its a stateless, class-less society). Ask them how they can know communism never works if it has never existed on earth. What about it goes against human nature, etc. Demolish them.

[bcbm]

Tell them that it is human nature to be self-interested, and the self-interest of all members of the dispossessed and exploited classes lies in the destruction of the bourgeoisie and the creation of an egalitarian, self-managed society.

[Floyce White]

First, that's pretty sophomoric and easy to beat. Tell them that people are always interested in what others are doing. Humans are social animals. This society of "me first" is based on gunmen pointing guns at you and telling you what to do. Very anti-social. It's contrary to human nature.

Second, you're wasting your time. What people do matters--not what they say. Get involved in activities and don't worry about doing some sort of religious conversion.

[blueeyedboy]

Just say that it has been mathematically proven that capitalism cannot sustain itself. I don't know who proved it, but I read it somewhere on the Net. To me, you can't argue with mathematics.

[Red Menace]

Thank you comrades
But now Im getting "why don't you move to russia, or china"?
what do i say to that???

[Goatse]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 10:56 pm
Thank you comrades
But now Im getting "why don't you move to russia, or china"?
what do i say to that???
Accuse them of have mental disabilities.

Seriously, if people are misguided enough to say nonsense like that, then they're not really worth speaking to. I find that people like that are so sure of themselves and they refuse to believe anything anyone else tells them, so just stop wasting your time.

That reminds me of the time I told my mother not all Muslims are terrorists... she asked me why I don't go and join my "muslim-buddies" in Iran...

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 10:56 pm
Thank you comrades
But now Im getting "why don't you move to russia, or china"?
what do i say to that???
Depending on how stupid the person you're talking to is you have too options:

If thy're thick as shit simply tell them to fuck off.

If they're just dense and asking it as a serious questtion say: "Because I want communism to happen in this country."

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 04:56 pm
Thank you comrades
But now Im getting "why don't you move to russia, or china"?
what do i say to that???
Um... well, one, Russia isn't even "socialist" anymore (not that it really was anyway). And just tell them neither of those models of government and economics have anything to do with the society you want to create.


This society of "me first" is based on gunmen pointing guns at you and telling you what to do. Very anti-social. It's contrary to human nature.

Humans are naturally self-interested, it is simply a matter of realizing that all of our self-interests lie with our class interests.

[Floyce White]

"Go to Russia?" That's the easiest thing in the world to reply to.

Ask them why they think everyone who disagrees with the system should "go away." Ask them why they think you're made out of the same stuff as those who say dissidents should "go away."

Tell them that every liar and fool says "slavery's bad" today, but lots of rich people had slaves and paid politicians and journalists to defend slavery at the time. The institution of employment is no different. Ask them to make a stand against employment or stop pretending to care about it.

[Floyce White]

black banner black gun: "Humans are naturally self-interested, it is simply a matter of realizing that all of our self-interests lie with our class interests."

From the point of view of the upper class, all people--rich and poor alike--have the same outlook called "self-interest." From the point of view of the lower class, it's disgusting to compare a tenant's "interest" in paying the landlord, to the landlord's "interest" in accumulating wealth. Using a non-specific, abstract term such as "interest" is a way to disguise the fact that some people have property interests while others do not.

BBBG, in particular, the way that you state the idea--I showed it to be false in the last half of this post (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=42974&st=169&#entry1291995757). (You may want to look at the posts that preceded it to see why the discussion used that particular wording.)

[Tekun]

The HighSchool Commie guide (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=25500) has these and other answers to typical questions and arguments that others use against us
Check it out, I believe its 5pgs, but lots of different types of questions and arguments are answered and refuted here