Internationalist declaration from Korea

[Alf]

Internationalist declaration from Korea against the threat of war

Introduction by the International Communist Current

At the end of October 2006 , a conference of internationalist organisations, groups and militants was called by the Socialist Political Alliance (SPA) in the South Korean towns of Seoul and Ulsan. However modest the numbers present, the SPA is the first organised expression in the Far East (as far as we are aware) of the principles of the communist left, and this conference was certainly the first of its kind. As such, it has a historic significance, and the ICC gave its whole hearted support by sending a delegation to address the Conference (we will be writing in more detail about the conference at a later date).
In the days leading up to the Conference, however, the long-term political importance of its goals was overshadowed by the dramatic sharpening of inter-imperialist tensions in the region caused by the explosion of North Korea’s first nuclear bomb, and the manoeuverings that have followed it especially on the part of the different powers present in the region (USA, China, Japan, Russia, South Korea). Because of this, this issue was discussed at some length during the conference and gave rise to the following declaration, adopted by the majority of the participants.

Internationalist declaration from Korea against the threat of war

Following the news of the nuclear tests in North Korea, we, the communist internationalists meeting in Seoul and Ulsan:
1. Denounce the development of a new nuclear weapons capability in the hands of another capitalist state: the nuclear bomb is the ultimate weapon of inter-imperialist warfare, its only function being the mass extermination of the civilian population in general and the working class in particular.
2. Denounce unreservedly this new step towards war taken by the capitalist North Korean state which has thereby demonstrated once again (if that were necessary) that it has absolutely nothing to do with the working class or communism, and is nothing but a most extreme and grotesque version of decadent capitalism's general tendency towards militaristic barbarism.
3. Denounce unreservedly the hypocritical campaign by the United States and its allies against its North Korean enemy which is nothing but an ideological preparation for unleashing – when they have the capacity to do so – their own preemptive strikes of which the working population would be the principal victim, as it is today in Iraq. We have not forgotten that the United States is the only power to have used nuclear weapons in war, when it annihilated the civilian populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
4. Denounce unreservedly the so-called "peace initiatives" which are bound to appear under the aegis of other imperialist gangsters such as China. These will be concerned not with peace, but with the protection of their own capitalist interests in the region. The workers can have no confidence whatever in the "peaceful intentions" of any capitalist state.
5. Denounce unreservedly any attempt by the South Korean bourgeoisie to take repressive measures against the working class or against activists in their defense of internationalist principles under the pretext of protecting national freedom or democracy.
6. Declare our complete solidarity with the workers of North and South Korea, China, Japan, and Russia who will be the first to suffer in the event of military action breaking out.
7. Declare that only the world wide workers' struggle can put an end for ever to the constant threat of barbarism, imperialist war, and nuclear destruction that hangs over humanity under capitalism.

The workers have no country to defend!
Workers of all lands, unite!

This declaration was signed by the following organisations and groups:

International Communist Current
Socialist Political Alliance (Korea), Seoul group meeting of 26th October 2006
Internationalist Perspectives

A number of comrades present at the Conference also signed the declaration on an individual basis:
SJ (Seoul Group for Workers’ Councils)
MS (Seoul Group for Workers’ Councils)
LG
JT
JW (Ulsan)
SC (Ulsan)
BM

[The Author]

Denounce unreservedly this new step towards war taken by the capitalist North Korean state which has thereby demonstrated once again (if that were necessary) that it has absolutely nothing to do with the working class or communism, and is nothing but a most extreme and grotesque version of decadent capitalism's general tendency towards militaristic barbarism.

I'm not convinced that the DPRK is a "capitalist, militaristic barbaric" state. For a moment I had this impression that these words came from a statement published by the U.S. State Department instead of a Communist organization.


The workers have no country to defend!
Workers of all lands, unite!

The whole point of this slogan is to demonstrate the internationalism of the toiling workers, and not nationalism. Supporting socialist countries in the present and in the past does not mean catering to nationalism- quite the reverse, it's an international obligation. It means fulfilling the internationalist obligation of helping workers around the world, hence the phrase "workers of all lands, unite!" or "Workingmen of all countries, unite!"

[Leo]

Originally posted by Alf+--> (Alf)At the end of October 2006 , a conference of internationalist organisations, groups and militants was called by the Socialist Political Alliance (SPA) in the South Korean towns of Seoul and Ulsan. However modest the numbers present, the SPA is the first organised expression in the Far East (as far as we are aware) of the principles of the communist left, and this conference was certainly the first of its kind. As such, it has a historic significance, and the ICC gave its whole hearted support by sending a delegation to address the Conference (we will be writing in more detail about the conference at a later date).[/b]

This is excellent news. Not only the conference but the existence of this revolutionary organization in the far east. The only sad thing was that only three left communist organizations had actually attended.


CriticizeEverythingAndYouWillBeKilled
I'm not convinced that the DPRK is a "capitalist, militaristic barbaric" state. For a moment I had this impression that these words came from a statement published by the U.S. State Department instead of a Communist organization.

Yeah cause the U.S. State Department always calls the DPRK "capitalist" :rolleyes: You do have brain, why don't you try using it?


Supporting socialist countries

There can't be an actual "socialist country". The term is a contradiction in itself, an oxymoron.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 01, 2006 08:38 pm
There can't be an actual "socialist country". The term is a contradiction in itself, an oxymoron.
No its not. You cant have a communist country, you CAN have a socialist country.

[Leo]

No its not. You cant have a communist country, you CAN have a socialist country.

According to Stalin yes, according to Marx no.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah, in the imaginary world of the ICC and other ultra-leftists like them, socialist revolution will come to be around the whole world, at the same time, and it will be spontaneous.

No gains of working people need to be defended anywhere, nor do imperialist-oppressed countries, 'cause they're all just a part of the dirty capitalist world anyway.

From their towers of ivory, they criticize real life social movements that don't fit into their pure communist mindset.

In practice, this means they're nothing more than intellectual masturbators.

Now, in the real world...

Calling for the disarmament of an imperialist-oppressed country, that's been under attack -- politically, economically and militarily -- for decades is supporting the imperialists. It's like telling working people not to buy guns, while the capitalist state that oppresses them is armed to the teeth.

Revolutionaries call for the disarmament of the imperialist countries.. the ones with the most weapons, and the ones who use them to oppress and subjugate the rest of the world. The USSR's nuclear arsenal prevented nuclear assaults on China, Korea, and Viet Nam by the imperialists. It also played a part in preventing a full military invasion of Cuba.

We defend imperialist-oppressed countries, and their right to arm themselves to defend against imperialist attack. This means we defend the right of DPRK to create nuclear weapons. We also understand that the only way to rid the world of nuclear weapons completey is through socialist revolution. Cuba, a socialist state based on the power of workers, defends itself without nuclear weapons. It is able to do this today by arming the masses of people, and training them for prolonged guerrilla resistance. This is possible because of the democratic nature of the Cuban state. The North Korean state, which is structured in a completely different (non-democratic) manner, like Iran, must rely on heavy weaponry.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 01, 2006 09:07 pm

No its not. You cant have a communist country, you CAN have a socialist country.

According to Stalin yes, according to Marx no.
acording to the definition of socialism, yes. And while Marx was internationalist, and there obviously would be no state under complete communism, I dont recall him specificly station that the DoP wouldnt necessarily develop in certain "countries" before others, infact he specificly stated that it would, although he may not have guessed the right ones.

[The Author]

Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad+ Nov. 1, 2006, 05:11 pm--> (CompañeroDeLibertad @ Nov. 1, 2006, 05:11 pm)The North Korean state, which is structured in a completely different (non-democratic) manner, like Iran, must rely on heavy weaponry.[/b]

The North Korean state functions like any other dictatorship of the proletariat, including Cuba. The North Korean government represents real representative democracy and its political superstructure is nothing like that of Iran. Also, North Korea has one of the largest armed forces in the world.

I agree with the rest of your post.


Leo [email protected] Nov. 1, 2006, 05:07 pm
According to Stalin yes, according to Marx no.

Show me where Marx said there can be no such thing as a socialist country.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad+--> (CompañeroDeLibertad)From their towers of ivory....[/b]

It's probably not my place to say this, but Alf is hardly an "ivory tower communist". He's an experienced comrade who's probably forgotten more stories about being involved in political struggle, than every other poster in this thread (combined) has.

So, really, the point is, before you start rambling on about "the ICC and other ultra-leftists like them" -- the ICC, by the way, are part of the communist left ... which isn't "ultra-leftist" unless you're a 20th century political dinosaur -- do us all a favour and acquaint yourself with the political practice of the communist left ... both historic and present. Because, you see, stupid comments just make you look, well, stupid.

To further prove a point:


CompañeroDeLibertad
No gains of working people need to be defended anywhere....

I'm doing this from memory, so I'll probably get it wrong. But the motto, as it were, of the ICC -- and by extension, the communist left -- is for continued struggle by the working class around their most basic collective economic interests.

In other words, squire, defending gains ... and shit. (You got that from Severian, didn't you? Sounds just like him. Next you'll start calling them "concrete gains" and forgetting how to spell "them".)
_ _ _ _ _

As to the statement posted at the beginning of this thread. Well, it's quite interesting -- but I'd like to see the longer reports on the Conference before drawing any concrete ( :lol: ) conclusions. Any idea when they will be published, Alf?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

It's probably not my place to say this, but Alf is hardly an "ivory tower communist". He's an experienced comrade who's probably forgotten more stories about being involved in political struggle, than every other poster in this thread (combined) has.

And you know this because, like your great teacher RedStar, you have the ability to make facts appear from thin air!

Speak for yourself Armchair Socialist, not for others whom you know nothing about.


So, really, the point is, before you start rambling on about "the ICC and other ultra-leftists like them" -- the ICC, by the way, are part of the communist left ... which isn't "ultra-leftist" unless you're a 20th century political dinosaur -- do us all a favour and acquaint yourself with the political practice of the communist left ... both historic and present. Because, you see, stupid comments just make you look, well, stupid.

Pretty rich having you attempt to school me on history.

The ICC is ultra-leftist by the very definition of the term.

I'm no stranger to the ICC and its history, or the histories of other similar groups. There was a time years ago that I was an ultra-leftist myself, in my naivete.

Oh, and the "20th century dinosaurs" you refer to make up (by far) the majority of the revolutionary left.

Maybe if you ever got involved in real struggle you'd know that this board and its redstar minions and anarchists are no reflection of the real world.


I'm doing this from memory, so I'll probably get it wrong. But the motto, as it were, of the ICC -- and by extension, the communist left -- is for continued struggle by the working class around their most basic collective economic interests.

In other words, squire, defending gains ... and shit. (You got that from Severian, didn't you? Sounds just like him. Next you'll start calling them "concrete gains" and forgetting how to spell "them".)

Well, back here on earth, slogans, like labels, are meaningless when the remain nothing more than words.

Have fun.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad+--> (CompañeroDeLibertad)And you know this because....[/b]

....someone's told me. :o

Amazing, isn't it? How information is gathered and shared, that is. In this case, the information that Alf, despite your assertions, is in fact a veteran comrade. Or maybe you're right. Maybe I've just made this information "appear from thin air" ... and Alf's really just a spotty fourteen year old who likes the special atmosphere created by the Rev-Left membership.

Either way, if Alf chooses to post in this thread again, I'm sure he can adequately respond to the accusations you've raised about his politics. You know, the accusation that he sits in an "ivory tower" watching the world pass him by -- in other words, he refrains from involving himself in class struggle.


Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad+--> (CompañeroDeLibertad)Pretty rich having you attempt to school me on history.[/b]

If the cap fits....


Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad
The ICC is ultra-leftist by the very definition of the term.

No, the ICC is part of the communist left ... they may even be "ultra-gauche". But, as I said, they're not "ultra-left" unless you're a political dinosaur who throws that term around like he is a paedophile handing out sweeties to kids.


Compañ[email protected]
Oh, and the "20th century dinosaurs" you refer to make up (by far) the majority of the revolutionary left.

And I'm sure leftists like yourself, CDL, take great pleasure in that. But, you see, communists aren't really that bothered by the ideological composition of "the left" -- not even "the revolutionary left". We have different priorities.


CompañeroDeLibertad
Well, back here on earth, slogans, like labels, are meaningless when the remain nothing more than words.

Care to present the slightest bit of evidence in favour of the proposition that the ICC and its members do nought? I mean, I doubt they could ever be as active and influential as the Free People's Movement ... but they sure do try, champ.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

....someone's told me.

I guess they also gave a history on every other person in this thread, since you asserted that Alf has done more than all of us combined.


No, the ICC is part of the communist left ... they may even be "ultra-gauche". But, as I said, they're not "ultra-left" unless you're a political dinosaur who throws that term around like he is a paedophile handing out sweeties to kids.

Yeah, you're right, they're not ultra-leftist, even though they are so far to the left of most communists that they consider them "the left end of the capitalist spectrum." :lol:

Disarm the DPRK! Onward to the spontaneous all-at-once world revolution!

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad+November 03, 2006 03:24 am--> (CompañeroDeLibertad @ November 03, 2006 03:24 am)
....someone's told me.

I guess they also gave a history on every other person in this thread, since you asserted that Alf has done more than all of us combined.[/b]

Good grief CDL, I thought you were brighter than that. Tell me, CDL, when someone says that what someone else knows about a subject could be written on the back of a postage stamp, do you think they actually mean that? That is, do you take that statement literally?

Alf's not a young whipper-snapper, by any means; but he's really not old enough for his memory to have got that bad....


CompañeroDeLibertad
Yeah, you're right....

Yeah, I know.

[Alf]

"We defend imperialist-oppressed countries, and their right to arm themselves to defend against imperialist attack. This means we defend the right of DPRK to create nuclear weapons".

So says Companero de Libertad.

It was this kind of argument, coming from a Trotskyist about the USSR's 'degenerated workers' bomb' and its right to obliterate the 'capitalist countries' with it, which suddenly made me realise back in the 70s that such people are not comrades, are not in the same movement, and have nothing whatever to do with communism or internationalism. To defend the DPRK is to defend capitalist barbarism just as much as George Bush defends it.

Thanks for sticking up for the communist left, AS! I will let you know when an account of the conference is likely to be published.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

It was this kind of argument, coming from a Trotskyist about the USSR's 'degenerated workers' bomb' and its right to obliterate the 'capitalist countries' with it, which suddenly made me realise back in the 70s that such people are not comrades, are not in the same movement, and have nothing whatever to do with communism or internationalism.

Hey, I agree with you in part, we aren't in the same movement, and we don't have anything in common.

And that "degenerated workers' bomb" prevented the bombing of several countries and the deaths of countless workers and farmers. By why would that matter to you, it's not spontanoues all-at-once world revolution.


To defend the DPRK is to defend capitalist barbarism just as much as George Bush defends it.

Not to defend it, and in fact to call for its only line of defense to be taken apart, is to support imperialism.

I guess you would've called for Ethiopia to disarm in the face of the Italian invasion, huh?

[Devrim]

Hey, I agree with you in part, we aren't in the same movement, and we don't have anything in common.
Yes, here is the only thing that you are right on. There is a world of difference between those who defend the positions of the working class, and the traditions of the communist movement, and those who want to support every capitalist warmonger who is slightly weaker than another. The so-called 'left' have a history of taking the side of one capitalist faction, or another in every conflict dating back to the second world war, or even when you look at some of them to 1914. This sort of attitude shouldn't surprise us in the least. Supporting states such as North Korea is a world away from supporting workers in struggle though.

And that "degenerated workers' bomb" prevented the bombing of several countries and the deaths of countless workers and farmers. By why would that matter to you, it's not spontanoues all-at-once world revolution.
It is all very well to make outlandish claims about 'alternative history', but actually this is a completely meaningless statement. We do know, however, that in the 'cold war between the 'West', and the 'Soviet' block, both of which were composed of equally capitalist states, countless real, not hypothetical, workers, and peasants did die for rival imperialist interests.
As for the assertion that the communist left believes in 'spontaneous all-at-once world revolution', nobody on the communist left is saying that the revolution will happen in all countries at 10.00 am on Monday morning. Of course the process will be more advanced in some countries than others. The point is though is that worker's revolution is international, or it is nothing. The horrors of Stalinism surely remind us of that.

I guess you would've called for Ethiopia to disarm in the face of the Italian invasion, huh?
Actually, as far as I know, the communist left has never called for any countries to disarm. What it tries to do is to explain to workers the dangers of being sucked into support for capitalist wars arguing that the danger is not only the power of the big imperialist states, but also that all factions who call for defence of the national interest, whether in the name of socialism, national liberation, or whatever, are directly against the working class, and are involved in trying to pull it into the deepening spiral of escalation for war. Against this it poses the idea that only workers' struggle, initially in defence of their basic living standards, but also ultimately in the struggle for communism can oppose a system that is based on war.

Devrim