Repelling a Navy recruiter

[Political_Chucky]

Tommarow in class there is going to be a guest speaker, more importantly, a Navy recruiter. My teacher said we must be polite and respectful but we can ask legitimate questions which I am taking as that she wants us to argue his recruitment strategies and such. So I have already thought of bringing up the topics of opting out, the No Child Left Behind Act(in which recruiters are allowed to look at high school students information), and the point that not all money promised is given to the soldiers. Anyone else have some good points I can bring up against him so he can't really say anything?

[Tekun]

the "war on terrorism"
America's socio-economic imperialism
pervasive discrimination throughout the armed forces
corruption
morality in the armed forces (soldiers disobeying orders on account of morality is not tolerated by the hierarchy...)

[Nex]

The lack of rights.
The fact that they could decided to stop paying the military tomorrow and I could not legally quit.
Really question the War on Terrorism and why we are there.

[Janus]

Do some counter-recruiting: pass out flyers and try to get local peace groups involved if the recruiters make concerted efforts.

[Political_Chucky]

BAH!!!!! Well thanks for your guys input. Today when he came, first he was discussing all the benefits and everything and I gotta say, he really did make it seem all too good to join the military. I almost wanted to join!(Sarcasm)

So anyways, after he was done talking, I asked him what the maximum was for working in the military for the minimum years. He answered me this kinda confusingly saying that there is no limit to what a person can make depending on their merits and everything but they are guaranteed about 36,000. After he said this, I told him I am asking this because I heard once joining the Military, you are only guaranteed 30,000 from 4 years of working and only people getting their doctorate are able to gain the full amount of 90,000 and such. At that point I wasn't trying to prove him wrong, I was only trying to show everyone that it really wasn't that much and he just made it awkward saying " I don't know what your trying to ask me but I will try and answer your question." Here is one of my sources for information. Debunk the myth (http://www.militaryfreezone.org/debunking_the_myth)

And everything I would ask him, he would act like he didn&#39;t know what I was talking about. So either he truly was truly ignorant of what I was talking about or he didn&#39;t want to bring it up. Its funny too because he didn&#39;t answer my question very well but moved on to some other person and answered their question rather throughly about Navy life and partying... <_<

I really hope I did get through to some people because I hate to see people waste their lives in the military. It angers me that so many recruiters are able to have access to kids, IN SCHOOL mind you, and those numbers exceed the number of people trying to recruit people for different colleges. At my school, they always recruit during lunch and I plan to have my own thing set up right next to them with opt out sheets and other information but today I feel like I failed. :(

[Lenin's Law]

Nah, I wouldn&#39;t feel too bad if I were you political chucky. Well it is a shame that military recruiters are often allowed to perpetuate propaganda on schools and college campuses, often to working-class youth who are desperate for an alternative and a way out from the horrors of rat-race capitalism, but lack a class consciousness and the necessary historical context in order to effectively attack the root of their problems - capitalism.

So they look for an escape, a "way out" through the military and then become a part of the imperialist machine where you truly lose your individuality, become another number, and just hope you live to come back to your family, in one piece if at all.

With regards to the event at your school, I wouldn&#39;t take it too hard that the speaker managed to be evasive and ignore most of the main points of your questions - remember that military spokespersons are professionals; they answer all kinds of questions every day of their lives and they are very well-trained with how to answer (or perhaps more accurately , find ways not to really answer) questions that might make them look uncomfortable or make the military look bad.

The main thing you should be concerned with, and from what I can see you are doing, is organizing your fellow students, trying to reach as many of them as possible, and giving an alternative point of view than what the military spokesperson gave. Chances are, you and your friends can relate to the average student at your school far better than some spokesperson can, no matter how well trained.

You can&#39;t stop professional talkers from reaching the ears of your classmates all the time, but you can offer them a progressive, revolutionary alternative. And that is precisely what I would recommend you concentrate your efforts on&#33; And good luck&#33; :)

[unema-]

Some guy that graduated last year came to recruit and was getting some guys numbers, he came to me and i smaked the pen and paper out of his hand and just stared at him till he walked away...good christian boy, turning the other cheek :) i had a good foot and a half on him :D

[TC]

http://i24.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/db/cb/da_1.JPG

Technically a bear repellent, i&#39;m not sure if the label includes navy recruiters but it should repell them as well.



Alternatively you could argue that the war is illigal, despite what they say, they will serve overseas in war zones, that the pay is considerably worse than domestic private sector work with equivolent qualifications and their offering of &#39;money for college&#39; assumes a level of ignorance on the part of the audience; oh and that an education or career is not worse murdering innocent iraqis over. You could also argue that its an insult to them for the recruiter to ask them to sacrifice their lives for what we all know is nothing more than securing oil fields for George Bush and his friend&#39;s corporations. And point out that while there have "only" been about 3000 occupation force deaths in Iraq, 40,000+ soldiers have been crippled, returning with blown off limbs and brain damage, in places like Anbar provice their chances of walking away whole are about even with their chances of being carried off in a stretcher.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

Join the military.
Get trained.
Help the Revolution.

They just sold you the rope that you&#39;ll hang them with.

[Tekun]

We have our "differences" but seeing how we&#39;re somewhat close in proximity, hit me up if u need some help with the anti-recruitment gig
:D

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 12:34 pm
We have our "differences" but seeing how we&#39;re somewhat close in proximity, hit me up if u need some help with the anti-recruitment gig
:D
Well what you got in mind?

I was discussing this with my government teacher today since she has to do with all the asb shit and she told me to talk to some other teacher because I am trying to set-up a table right next to the military recruiters with pamphlets about opting out and the whole war in general on how its a buncha bull. I think that will work effectively well with fighting against that. My friend over in Ramona highschool is president of Mecha so I am getting him to do the samething.

[Tekun]

Support u in any way possible, print stuff out, help u get the word out at your school, get u some of the FPM&#39;s literature,...

[violencia.Proletariat]

Take the peta approach, throw a bucket of fake blood one them :lol:

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 04:35 pm
Support u in any way possible, print stuff out, help u get the word out at your school, get u some of the FPM&#39;s literature,...
well sounds good. I just don&#39;t know where to get started. Tommarow i&#39;m just going to talk to that teacher and see whats up with my last idea. Ya got anti-war fliers or something to that affect feel free to post. Imma try and get some people from school to help me with the cause by maybe handing stuff out but most of my homies aren&#39;t into that kinda thing. I gotta start lookin for people.


Take the peta approach, throw a bucket of fake blood one them :lol:

Haha nice way to get me expelled :blink: so you do it haha

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 05:35 pm
Take the peta approach, throw a bucket of fake blood one them :lol:
Why fake? ;)

[Tekun]

well sounds good. I just don&#39;t know where to get started. Tommarow i&#39;m just going to talk to that teacher and see whats up with my last idea. Ya got anti-war fliers or something to that affect feel free to post. Imma try and get some people from school to help me with the cause by maybe handing stuff out but most of my homies aren&#39;t into that kinda thing. I gotta start lookin for people.

I&#39;ll get on it, Im not sure if I&#39;ll be able to post anything tonight, but I&#39;ll definitely post em up b4 the weekend

Check out the FPM at www.fpm-mgl.or
They got some great articles and fliers that u can print out

Good luck

[Political_Chucky]

Hmm well I found a good website... http://www.objector.org/ with good deal of information to fight militarism.

[Political_Chucky]

Yea so today I went up to my career center to talk to the person in charge of the booths which open during lunch that recruit people to the military and such so I could set-up my own right next to them. She told me that she wouldn&#39;t allow me to set one up because she believes that I am going to basically bash the military and tell people not to join the military, Even though I explained to her I am not going to tell them not to join, but just a lot of the fine print the recruiters don&#39;t tell. She was helpful however because she did tell me that if I could catch the recruiters mis-leading the students or lieing to them, she would personally kick them off campus but I can&#39;t set something up, with the schools support anyways, and basically discourage the joining of the military.

I do know that it is in my student rights to be able to give leaflets and to ask questions to the recruiters when they are there so I guess thats the next step I am going to plan on doing when I see them out there. I will keep the people interested posted up on the coming events because I plan to make this a known topic at my school and maybe to other schools.

[lvleph]

Okay, this is a bit old, but I was in the Navy. You should ask him, "what happens when one fails out of one&#39;s "A" school?" Answer is they give you whatever job they feel like, such as a boatswain&#39;s mate. Also ask, "how many times does one go on a 6 month cruise?" The answer should be 1 every 1.5yrs. Also ask, "what do you do in between cruises?" The answer is go out to sea. Ask "Is there still hazing, such as tacking on ones chevrons, or shell back initiation?" The answer is yes. Man I wish I could think of more.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Here&#39;s a good counter recruitment phamplet. Go here, http://charlotteaction.org/ , then click on resources at the top. It&#39;s called military recruiter&#39;s lies.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 05:24 pm
Join the military.
Get trained.
Help the Revolution.

They just sold you the rope that you&#39;ll hang them with.
I used to think that however at the same time, you&#39;re aiding the imperialist cause.

[Red October]

Originally posted by LeftyHenry+November 03, 2006 02:12 am--> (LeftyHenry @ November 03, 2006 02:12 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 05:24 pm
Join the military.
Get trained.
Help the Revolution.

They just sold you the rope that you&#39;ll hang them with.
I used to think that however at the same time, you&#39;re aiding the imperialist cause. [/b]

[email protected] 01, 2006 05:24 pm
Join the military.
Get trained.
Help the Revolution.

They just sold you the rope that you&#39;ll hang them with.
I used to think that however at the same time, you&#39;re aiding the imperialist cause.

you could get the combat training, then take a job that didnt involve oppressing people or going into combat. then take their money and go to college.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by Red October [email protected] 02, 2006 10:26 pm



you could get the combat training, then take a job that didnt involve oppressing people or going into combat.

It doesn&#39;t work like that. If you want combat training your going to the frontlines. You will be ordered to shoot people, working people who are resisting your presence in their home. You will be responsible (directly or indirectly) for the deaths of innocent people, most likely kids.


then take their money and go to college.

Money you have to qualify for. That is, you probably won&#39;t qualify and you might not survive the extra tours of duty they MAKE you go on. Thats not in the contract, but oh well your their fucking pawn.

[RNK]

I know it&#39;s too late, but next time, repel him by firebombing his car.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by violencia.Proletariat+November 03, 2006 03:05 am--> (violencia.Proletariat &#064; November 03, 2006 03:05 am)
Red October [email protected] 02, 2006 10:26 pm



you could get the combat training, then take a job that didnt involve oppressing people or going into combat.

It doesn&#39;t work like that. If you want combat training your going to the frontlines. You will be ordered to shoot people, working people who are resisting your presence in their home. You will be responsible (directly or indirectly) for the deaths of innocent people, most likely kids.


then take their money and go to college.

Money you have to qualify for. That is, you probably won&#39;t qualify and you might not survive the extra tours of duty they MAKE you go on. Thats not in the contract, but oh well your their fucking pawn. [/b]
Okay, I will start with your last statement. Everyone in the USA that joins the military qualifies for the GI bill. All one has to do is contribute their &#036;100 dollars a month for 1 yr then serve at least 2 yrs in the military and one has qualified for it. The GI bill only lasts for a total of 36 months. The ammount of money one gets per month during the time they are in school depends on what congress determines is appropriate. At the time I used my GI bill I was getting &#036;600 per month. I believe it is now &#036;1100 or something.

The first statement. Everyone in the military will get some sort of combat training, however not all are combat positions. Like my own position when I was in the Navy. I was a Nuclear Electrician. All I did was run the Nuclear Power plant aboard a submarine. Technically I did not go to the front lines. However, there are other positions that do not go to the front line, such as people working for the JAG. That being said when one joins the army with the idea that they are just exploiting the military for their own benefit and believes it is wrong to be in the military will most likely end up like I did. Very upset about the situation they ended up in, and no way out.*

*Well really, there are many ways out of the military, but most are not pleasant ways of obtaining the goal. Take it from someone that did it.

[Political_Chucky]

First off, I want to give everyone some really good information if anyone is intrerested in the same topic as me for fighting recruiters. This document can be compared as a spy infiltrating the enemies base because it details their exact plan of attack&#33;

School Recruiting Program Handbook (http://www.objector.org/moos/usarec_guideline.pdf)

This is a handbook which was published in sep. 1st 2004 so it may be a little outdated but i&#39;m sure that it uses a lot of the same guidelines and a lot of the laws concerning it are the same I am sure of that. But to quote the handbook, it says
"The relationship between Army recruiters and
educators in a school district is a potential source
of comfort and conflict for both parties. Before
you can expect any type of assistance from
school officials or be accepted by students you
must first establish rapport and credibility. You
must convince them that you have their students’
best interests in mind."


More or less this is a guidbook but it will be very helpful for me because it outlines what they are "outlined" to do throughout the year.

[encephalon]

instead of joining the military, you could all not join the military.

Radical, I know.

[Tekun]

Props man, this is some good shit I could definitely use
Im gonna print out a copy, and study it

[Anarcho-Stalinist]

Recruiters are mouthpieces who will do anything for money.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

Why does everyone think they should refuse to join the military?

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 09:44 am
Why does everyone think they should refuse to join the military?
Well besides the fact that by joining the military you will be helping the very enemy we mean to fight, I refuse to join the military because there are better ways for education and it basically sells your rights as a citizen.

I&#39;m not telling people at my school not to join however. I am only giving them information a recruiter may seem to "leave out." A lot of the information that have great cases against the military are definitely on www.objector.org which I will cite from.

One arguement that can be brought up is that financially, the money that is given to the recruits is not very much. The advertisements say that a recruit will get 70,000 for his time spent in the military. But what it doesn&#39;t tell you that there are qualifications that need to be met in order to get that money. Its a lot of information I don&#39;t wish to keep typing so check this page out for that information: Joining the Military is Hazardous to Your Education[ (http://www.objector.org/before-you-enlist/gi-bill.html)
Secondly, I wouldn&#39;t have so much of a problem with the military if it would only just tell the truth and not try and mislead students. Recruiters are needed to meet a certain quota to keep their job and most recruiters try to meet this by many means. the ASVAB test, which is a highschool exam (usually not mandatory but in some cases it can be) that is basically a lure for students. The test is preformed during school as a voluntary test, but it gives the students a chance to get out of classrooms and to take a test and what student doesn&#39;t take that opprotunity? The ASVAB test is a military test that checks your IQ and abilities and is used for leads on who to talk to about the military. They also use it to get a persons information such as their Name, Address, age, Social Security and ect. My dumbass self took it last year not knowning the consequences (I was not very political either so....) and now they have all that information and more. If you would like to read more about the Recruiters view on the ASVAB test, read the Recruiters Handbook (http://www.objector.org/moos/usarec_guideline.pdf) or ASVAB:A Wolf in Sheep&#39;s Clothing (http://www.objector.org/before-you-enlist/asvab.html) for an opinionated article.

Basically, the military is a deceptive group that is not considered about students struggle for money, but for their objective to fight wars. I am only trying to inform students of both moral standpoints and of the truth. If they still want to go to the military, then goodluck to them. But I won&#39;t stand by while people unaware of how big an affect the military can have on their lives.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 04:44 pm
Why does everyone think they should refuse to join the military?
Whose "everyone?"

In addition, why shouldn&#39;t we refuse to join an army that has for most of the 20th century colonized foreign lands to gain markets and resources all at the expense of working class ppl?