The Party of American Bolsheviks

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

Everyone - I have started the very first stages of creating my own independent politcal party- The Party of American Bolsheviks. This party is to be allied with the party of KR Krovin. This party is to be based on the traditional principles of Marxism-Leninism. It is to be an anti-revisionist, anti-anarchist and anti-trotskyist political party. The Party will be completely revolutionary in nature and will not tolerate any liberals, reformers or bourgeois hippie radicals of any kind.

This Party is only for the most serious of people, the most dedicated of comrades, the ones who will devote everything for active practice and establishing the traditional politics of Marxism-Leninism. We have a healthy respect for Maoism but do not consider ourselves Maoist. We have healthy respect for Communist, truly Marxist-Leninist leaders such as Karl Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin. However, we do not make them out to go some gods- in fact, we are atheist and as such we do not believe in any religion, in any god, in any religious exercise.

Much more will come in the future about this party, including a much more in-depth party platform, but as for right now, let it be known that there IS this new party, this revolutionary party , this Marxist-Leninist party that so many of you here have wanted. A Party that is truly Marxist-Leninist. That Party, i present to you, is The Party of American Bolsheviks (PAB)

Thank you.
Chairman MLS

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

Please post in this thread, or contact me personally if you seek membership into this Party, the PAB. Membership is highly exclusive as we set to create a modern vanguard of people that are once again, only the most revolutionary, the most dedicated, the most committed to Communist struggle.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Bolshevik-meeting.jpg

[Marsella]

You sound like you know fuck all about Marxism mate

[Marsella]

In fact if I didn't know any how many stupid idiots go to this site, I would consider you a police informant or part of some reactionary agency

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You started a party and named yourself chairman?

[Marsella]

This party is to be based on the traditional principles of Marxism-Leninism.

Well I agree to that, even though there isn't much traditional about Marxism


anti-revisionist, anti-anarchist and anti-trotskyist
Why anti-Trotsky? Surely as an advocate of international revolution and a tireless opponent of bueracracy 'traditional Marxists' should support him?


We have a healthy respect for Maoism but do not consider ourselves Maoist.
Any half-wit knows that Mao was an advocate of peasant revolution. I'm not entirely sure, but didn't that guy Karl Marx maintain that only communist revolutions can be inflicted upon Capitalist societies? But hey, lets not drift away from traditional Marxism!

Stalin?
I'm guessing that Marx would have like him about as much as he liked capitalism (Hint: I don't think Marx liked capitalism)


we are atheist and as such we do not believe in any religion, in any god, in any religious exercise.
Any 'traditional' Marxist need not say he is athiest. That goes along understanding the world as being materialist. I dont need to explain that do I?

Overall, the only part I agree with:
will not tolerate any liberals, reformers or bourgeois hippie radicals of any kind.

[Marsella]

will not tolerate any liberals, reformers or bourgeois hippie radicals of any kind.

On second thought, if i wanted to join a party who didn't allow liberals, reformers, or hippies, I would join a Nazi Party or the Republicans.

[Bolshevist]

sounds like a cozy little club :wub:

[Marsella]

sounds like a cozy little club

Well real-estate agents like to describe dilapidated, cupboard-sized houses as 'cozy.' But i guess thats the level of thought of someone whose political message is 'I love Communism'

[LoneRed]

Question for you MLS. What are you gonna do to ensure that petty-bourgeois cant infiltrate the party, and turn it into another "marxist-leninist" failure party we have everywhere in the world. Will it be proletarian only?

[Marsella]

no

[Louis Pio]

Just what we need, yet another party. This one even comes fullpackage, no need for elections the chairman is already in place! Do we have a new Bob A in the making?

[LoneRed]

Martov that really didnt answer anything i asked.

How are you, MLS going to protect against petty-bourgeois thought, look at the CP, SWP, Sparts, full of this ideological waste.


Another question- Is this party militant?

Also-do you have a website, and what are the groups principles?

[Rawthentic]

What goddam waste of time. Let the dead bury the dead

[Marsella]

bleh

[LoneRed]

so there can be bourgeois or petty-bourgeois people as long as they pass the "test"


Thats a risk id rather not take, in fighting for working class liberation

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 09:19 pm
Just what we need, yet another party. This one even comes fullpackage, no need for elections the chairman is already in place! Do we have a new Bob A in the making?
That's what I was gonna say.... :lol:

KR Krovin and this guy are Stalin worshippers that should be treated and ignored as such
What a waste of thread space!

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Marx Lenin [email protected] 30, 2006 12:30 pm
Everyone - I have started the very first stages of creating my own independent politcal party- The Party of American Bolsheviks. This party is to be allied with the party of KR Krovin. This party is to be based on the traditional principles of Marxism-Leninism. It is to be an anti-revisionist, anti-anarchist and anti-trotskyist political party. The Party will be completely revolutionary in nature and will not tolerate any liberals, reformers or bourgeois hippie radicals of any kind.

This Party is only for the most serious of people, the most dedicated of comrades, the ones who will devote everything for active practice and establishing the traditional politics of Marxism-Leninism. We have a healthy respect for Maoism but do not consider ourselves Maoist. We have healthy respect for Communist, truly Marxist-Leninist leaders such as Karl Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin. However, we do not make them out to go some gods- in fact, we are atheist and as such we do not believe in any religion, in any god, in any religious exercise.

Much more will come in the future about this party, including a much more in-depth party platform, but as for right now, let it be known that there IS this new party, this revolutionary party , this Marxist-Leninist party that so many of you here have wanted. A Party that is truly Marxist-Leninist. That Party, i present to you, is The Party of American Bolsheviks (PAB)

Thank you.
Chairman MLS
Go dig yourself a hole and fall into it, oh wait...you already have.

[LoneRed]

just let him do his thing. You're all treating them like they are republicans or some shit. damn

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by MLS
this party is to be allied with the party of KR Krovin

KR Krovin runs a political party? Is he the only member? The 'party OF KR Krovin', does he own it or something? Sounds very democratic, like the 'party of Stalin', real communist organisations aren't named after their 'leaders'.

Are you the only member of the 'Party of American Bolsheviks'?

And what the hell is an 'american bolshevik'? First, why include 'american' as part of your name? It makes you sound nationalistic, and second, how the hell can a 'bolshevik' exist in 2006 USA? The bolshevik party was a russian revolutionary group from predominantly, the early 20th century, unless you plan on transplating early 20th century russia to 2006 USA, your name is a rather silly anachronism and will only serve to alienate serious working class revolutionaries.

[LoneRed]

Holy Shit!

Someone Take A Picture, I agree with most of what BD has said here.

Inspiring!

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by Marx Lenin [email protected] 30, 2006 11:30 am
Everyone - I have started the very first stages of creating my own independent politcal party- The Party of American Bolsheviks. This party is to be allied with the party of KR Krovin. This party is to be based on the traditional principles of Marxism-Leninism. It is to be an anti-revisionist, anti-anarchist and anti-trotskyist political party. The Party will be completely revolutionary in nature and will not tolerate any liberals, reformers or bourgeois hippie radicals of any kind.

This Party is only for the most serious of people, the most dedicated of comrades, the ones who will devote everything for active practice and establishing the traditional politics of Marxism-Leninism. We have a healthy respect for Maoism but do not consider ourselves Maoist. We have healthy respect for Communist, truly Marxist-Leninist leaders such as Karl Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin. However, we do not make them out to go some gods- in fact, we are atheist and as such we do not believe in any religion, in any god, in any religious exercise.

Much more will come in the future about this party, including a much more in-depth party platform, but as for right now, let it be known that there IS this new party, this revolutionary party , this Marxist-Leninist party that so many of you here have wanted. A Party that is truly Marxist-Leninist. That Party, i present to you, is The Party of American Bolsheviks (PAB)

Thank you.
Chairman MLS
oh how cute, you want little impressionable kids to run around with your picture on a pin screaming about how your so great. thank you for be amazingly sectarian, and thank you for thinking you are all important... now please, fuck off.

[Marsella]

so there can be bourgeois or petty-bourgeois people as long as they pass the "test"

You obviously don't know what the bourgeoise class is; that was why I explained it.

Why would a capitalist want to join a party which aimed at his/her overthrow. Not much logic in that is there?

I think what your getting at is how does the party prevent reformists, liberals, careerists etc. Like I said, if you want admittence to a vanguard your knowledge of Marxism should be demonstrated. And no im not talking about having a multiple choice test.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Martov
Like I said, if you want admittence to a vanguard your knowledge of Marxism should be demonstrated.

Does this include like frat-style initiation too? I love elitist clubs!

[LoneRed]

Members of other classes, do use infiltration, while for the bourgeois class this is slim, the possibility of some petty-bourgeois teen idealist of joining would be higher, but would come with a price

[BreadBros]

Hmmm. Am I the only who thinks MLS may be trolling and trying to get a rise out of the rest of us?

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2006 12:23 am
Hmmm. Am I the only who thinks MLS may be trolling and trying to get a rise out of the rest of us?
I all accuality i think he is being completly serious.. he is a stalinist of course

[LoneRed]

Well, these things happen, Id rather fight the capitalists, then someone closer to my views, as of now, that is

[Marsella]

errr no

[LoneRed]

not let them in, in the first place

[Marsella]

not let them in, in the first place
But according to you they would infiltrate so we wouldn't know.

[LoneRed]

infiltrate, when you dont set up barriers to their entrance. thats the least that could be done

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Martov
Its probably less elitist than Anarchist crews. But then again maybe thats why anarchism is basically useless.

Ooh nice response, not one, but TWO ad hominems! :o

[Marsella]

Ooh nice response, not one, but TWO ad hominems!
Cheers ill try to throw in some more fallacies
argumentum ad populum: not many people support anarchist, therefore anarchism is wrong
argumentum ad baculum: shut up or ill kill you
Plurium Interrogationum: 'When did anarchists stop being morons?'
argumentum ad nauseam: Anarchy is utopian,Anarchy is utopian,Anarchy is utopian,Anarchy is utopian,Anarchy is utopian

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 30, 2006 05:46 pm
You started a party and named yourself chairman?
I am not alone. I have worked with a number of comrades and friends to build this party. I have been elected the Chairman from the CC (Central Committee).

But let us be clear:

We are a party of Marxism Leninism. We do not believe in bourgeois democracy, bourgeois elections, and bourgeois freedoms. We are democratic centralists. The Chairman and the CC decide policies on behalf of vanguard which is this party. We have a saying - In the party everything , outside of it nothing. The instrucations and demands of the CC must be obeyed and carried out forthwith by its members. Debate will be allowed inside the party but once decision is reached it must be carried out to its fullest potential to its fullest ability imaginable.

While we understand that eliminating provacteurs can never be 100% we will enact ways to guard against it. Like I said earlier, we are not a party for everyone, we are a vanguard, we earn to be the cream of the revolutionary crop and this is a party for only the most committed, the most active the most energetic. Therefore rigid tests and examintations will be made to ensure that we only get these kind of people into the party.

Let us be clear again - the party has already been started. Under my leadership, we believe in leaders, we are not dopey anarchists. Leaders are necessary and in this party we have such a leader. We have a strong base and group of comrades to grow from. We look to increase numbers through outreach but as I said, admission will not be easy.

We have only begun the first baby steps of creating our party for full party positions, platforms and web site are currently in the process of being created. When it is done we will present them here.

For those interested in the PAB please contact me via a PM or email.

- Chairman MLS

[An archist]

All Hail chairman MLS, may he live on forever through history!
May his fame be known
May his words be heard


(Hey, I'd make a pretty good Stalinist wouldn't I?)

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

No. Go away liberal.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Marx Lenin Stalin
"Workers of all lands unite!"

Chairman of the Party of American Bolsheviks. (PAB)

:lol: You quote yourself in your signature, you're tripping!

[TC]

When i read the first post i thought he was one of the deeply confused people who play make-believe games and make up their own "organizations" from people on the interent without having any meaningful activism or real life basis for organization...a lot like a much funnier version of the several internet affilitaions that proport to be actual communist organizations recruiting from revleft.


However i think its pretty obvious from the second post that Marx Lenin Stalin is an anarchist parody, clearly no one whose ever read marx or lenin and agreed with them would talk that way, he is espousing the anarchist version of "leninism" developed by people like Redstar2000 as a straw man ideology to criticize rather than arguing against what mainstream marxists actually believe in.

[Black Dagger]

The truth hurts Clowny? :(

[Rawthentic]

he is espousing the anarchist version of "leninism" developed by people like Redstar2000 as a straw man ideology to criticize rather than arguing against what mainstream marxists actually believe in.
People like me and comrade RedStar, probably the most theoretically advanced poster here, see Leninism for what it has done in history, and view Leninist theory as a secondary thing for what it has done.

[An archist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 07:00 pm
However i think its pretty obvious from the second post that Marx Lenin Stalin is an anarchist parody, clearly no one whose ever read marx or lenin and agreed with them would talk that way, he is espousing the anarchist version of "leninism" developed by people like Redstar2000 as a straw man ideology to criticize rather than arguing against what mainstream marxists actually believe in.
I wouldn't go right ahead calling it an anarchist parody, but it's obvious it's a parody, see this thread:
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=58195

[Rollo]

I think he might be serious. It's so hard to tell.

[Wanted Man]

You can't really say much about seriousness. It's the internet, people. I might be an overweight Croatian sitting in my mother's basement. Anyway, if you want to ally with what Krovin's doing, why not just join that? :huh:

[Leo]

I propose moving this thread to chit-chat.

[chimx]

this makes me want to start a party just so i can be called "chairman chimx"

[An archist]

I'm in if you change your name to 'chairman chimp'

btw MLS, are you serious about your statement regarding the commie club?
Is that a public statement that is approved of by your party?

[Forward Union]

As it stands now it seems innapropriate to move it to chit-chat, as it actually does contain some usefulness (for example, a chance to debate the impracticalites of internet organisation)

So I'll leave it open for now, and see what happens.

[kaaos_af]

Well I'd like to join the PAB. Up yours, all of you.

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

It seems interesting but I personally harbor doubts as to its efficentness, influence, and sincerity. If I was assured of those someway, I'd be more interested.

[VenceremosRed]

Can we say d-o-g-m-a-t-i-s-m?

The overwhelming negative reaction against a NEW "vanguard" Party is interesting and should be noted.

Vanguards don't emerge with a group of 3 dogmatists and declare themselves the vanguard. People, and small factions like this are what give ammunition to the anarchist movement.

I think we need leaders, a vanguard and democratic centralism - but certainly not the kind Mr. Self-Declared Chairman is talking about.

Besides the obvious - what is the BASIS for your "party"? Did you just carbon copy the Soviet Union?

That's not very Marxist, or Leninist --- or Maoist! :P

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

No.

This party is based on Marxism Leninism. But there is much more. We plan on advancing its theory and practice just as Leninism advanced Marxism for the beginning of the 20th century and Stalinism advanced Leninism in practice for the middle of the 20th century, so will we advance it to the 21st century.

We will make a number of contributions, especially on the leadership which I personally will be making major significatate contributions in. This is all very exciting and I urge serious, committed dedicated comrades to seek membership here. Though it will not be easy as previously stated.

The basis for our party is to be the vanguard of the working class. We are all workers here - but more - committed, dedicated worked to the dictatorship of the proleteriat, to revolution, to Marxism Leninism.

For the last time - I am not "self declared" by approved of by our internal Central Committee of the Party of American Bolsheviks.

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

Forgive me for not being able to respond to everyone directly: you see I am busy organizing our party and our movement so I cannot be at the computer 24-7. We are creating a serious , revolutionary, political party here and I am the leader.

To those interested in seeking membership:

The process for being members will be long and we will take as much time as needed to evaluate you. Your posts will be searched here of course throughly, but also your email, and your name will be checked to see if it's in any other forums as well. Our goal will be to find out as much as possible through our channels, and make sure you are not some revisionist, liberal, utopian anarchist, or government agent.

We seek only the most comitted, the most active, the best of the best of the revolutionary movement for our party.

Remember what Lenin said: "Better fewer, but better!" This is what we will follow.

If you are still interested, post that you are here or PM me and the Party will look into it throughly I promise you. In the meantime, if all interested persons could put in their sig "The Party of American Bolsheviks" as a sign of solidarity this would be appreciated.

This does not mean you are a member! Only that we recognize you, for now, as a sympathezier of our party. Membership will come later after checking and re-checking your background and history.

- Chairman MLS

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by Marx Lenin [email protected] 09, 2006 06:40 pm
The process for being members will be long and we will take as much time as needed to evaluate you. Your posts will be searched here of course throughly, but also your email, and your name will be checked to see if it's in any other forums as well. Our goal will be to find out as much as possible through our channels, and make sure you are not some revisionist, liberal, utopian anarchist, or government agent.


Does this sound just little bit idiotic and counter-revolutionary to anyone else but me?


which I personally will be making major significatate contributions in.

Seriously, you need to get off your high horse.


This does not mean you are a member! Only that we recognize you, for now, as a sympathezier of our party. Membership will come later after checking and re-checking your background and history.

Your party will go nowhere because you have the basis of membership on exclusion, and v.i.p. club rules; if I was starting a group, I would try to get the entire working class on board, not skim through personal information to try to find "true," revolutionaries.

Your party will go nowhere.

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

This is a VANGUARD! Not a mass political party - that will come later.

Do you even know what a vanguard is??

[Red October]

Our goal will be to find out as much as possible through our channels, and make sure you are not some revisionist, liberal, utopian anarchist, or government agent.

the government sucks ass, but they dont waste time with idiots like yourself. they have much more serious threats from the left to deal with, not you.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Could I begin a Brazilian chapter of the American Party of Bolsheviks?

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by Marx Lenin [email protected] 09, 2006 08:10 pm
This is a VANGUARD! Not a mass political party - that will come later.

Do you even know what a vanguard is??
Yea, a group of intellectuals whom have no faith in the strength of the people, I know the whole concept of the vanguard theory, my point was it will go nowhere.

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

No, Anarchism goes nowhere.

Just as it has gone nowhere in all of history. Only one movement has successfully taken power and destroyed the capitalist state:

Marxism-Leninism. NOTHING is more revolutionary than Marxism Leninism. Nothing.

[Cryotank Screams]

No, Anarchism goes nowhere.

Anarchism is not only plausible it is inevitable.


Marxism-Leninism. NOTHING is more revolutionary than Marxism Leninism. Nothing.

"The Revolution evaporates, & leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy. The chains of tormented mankind are made out of red tape."-Franz Kafka

In my opinion, nothing is more revolutionary than the working class and the people, but hey, that's just my opinion.

[apathy maybe]

Originally posted by Marx Lenin [email protected] 10, 2006 11:43 am
No, Anarchism goes nowhere.

Just as it has gone nowhere in all of history. Only one movement has successfully taken power and destroyed the capitalist state:

Marxism-Leninism. NOTHING is more revolutionary than Marxism Leninism. Nothing.
Fuck off troll.

As to the original question, Blackberry posted a very good piece http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=6421 with a number of links. Also see "What makes an anarchist ..." http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=28053

And don't forget An Anarchist FAQ http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secA5.html that is the section on Anarchism in Action. The full FAQ http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html is very large, but has so much information that you should not need anything else. A very good work.


Edit: Ha whoops, I posted the above in the wrong thead. I leave it here for now and simply add this. Do a search on Google for this "party of american bolsheviks" (without the "). The only place it shows up that is relevent is this thread. Says something about the real world value of the party hey. So fuck off and die troll.

[Zeruzo]

errr... why found an entirely new party? There's already tons of party's in the U.S. where you can spread you're views... why be all sectarian?

[Nilats]

But this party is one of TRUE Marxism Leninism led by a great comrade MLS.

How do I know? I am a member of the PAB. That's why.

It is legit, it is a serious party and it is growing very fast.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Stalin
It is legit, it is a serious party and it is growing very fast.

Sorry bra, but making multiple accounts on an internet and claiming these as 'members' for your 'party' doesnt count as 'growth'.

Nice, creative username you've chosen to0, Stalin backwards, boy are you clever for a troll!

[Nilats]

For the last time, I am no troll. MLS is no troll. This is not MLS, check the IP addresses if you want I don't care, I'm not him.

[Dimentio]

Who is VR [or KR] Krovin?

Is it the same person as VR on the Soviet-empire.com archive who was the co-developer of the computer game Totalitarianizm together with interrupt_00h [who is a reincarnation of Adolf Hitler (http://yarowrath.livejournal.com)]? If that is the case, I am not surprised.

Soviet-empire, especially at 2002-2003, was and is very different from this site.

I am just curious, who is Krovin?

[FatFreeMilk]

Do you have a website or something MLS? A myspace?

[Zeruzo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 06:25 pm
But this party is one of TRUE Marxism Leninism led by a great comrade MLS.

How do I know? I am a member of the PAB. That's why.

It is legit, it is a serious party and it is growing very fast.
Well, there are plenty of 'true Marxist-Leninist party's' out there...
Why form a whole new one?

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 07:12 pm
Who is VR [or KR] Krovin?

Is it the same person as VR on the Soviet-empire.com archive who was the co-developer of the computer game Totalitarianizm together with interrupt_00h [who is a reincarnation of Adolf Hitler (http://yarowrath.livejournal.com)]? If that is the case, I am not surprised.

Soviet-empire, especially at 2002-2003, was and is very different from this site.

I am just curious, who is Krovin?
Doubt it. That VR claims to be Swedish here:

http://www.politicsforum.org/soviet/viewto...highlight=#1004 (http://www.politicsforum.org/soviet/viewtopic.php?p=1004&highlight=#1004)

And knowing VRKrovin, I doubt that he would associate with interrupt, who is pretty much a straight-up nazi these days.

[Patchd]

This all seems like something which I would have done when I was like 10, and then given it up after 4 days. How old are you MLS?

[The Sloth]

MLS,

you will either end as a failed poet or a reactionary fuck. the difference is irrelevant.. the point is that you'll end.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Marx Lenin [email protected] 09, 2006 11:40 pm
If you are still interested, post that you are here or PM me and the Party will look into it throughly I promise you. In the meantime, if all interested persons could put in their sig "The Party of American Bolsheviks" as a sign of solidarity this would be appreciated.

Can I show my opposition to you by putting "Party of Tankie Bollocks" in my signature? :lol:

[Forward Union]

As much as I disagree with a lot of marxist-leninism, I have a lot of respect for many marxist-Leninists who engage in progressive non-sectarian struggle, some, indeed I work with.

But MLS, you're an absolute idiot. I have no respect for you or your internet club.

[Nilats]

Originally posted by Brooklyn-[email protected] 11, 2006 05:42 am
MLS,

you will either end as a failed poet or a reactionary fuck. the difference is irrelevant.. the point is that you'll end.
There is really no reason for this kind of harsh rhetoric, everyone "ends" at some point and time.

[Nilats]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 10, 2006 02:03 am
Do a search on Google for this "party of american bolsheviks" (without the "). The only place it shows up that is relevent is this thread. Says something about the real world value of the party hey. So fuck off and die troll.
Really nice last comment there, very productice. I can see how MLS gets into these flame wars with comments like that. I hope we can increase the civil discourse on BOTH sides.

To respond to the rest of your post - The PAB has only just begun to form. I believe Chairman MLS made this clear but if not I will repeat it here.

The fact that we are not on other internet forum and that we're not all over Google searches should be a good sign, not a bad one for a party is just forming and beginning. We're not a cyber party, we're not an internet party so we're not just going to be posting on internet forums all day long. The fact that Chairman MLS chose to make known the PAB here is because he believes strongly that this forum is a good place to contant lots of revolutionaries.

The PAB is actually doing serious work in forming and finalizing our party programme and contacts. No point in creating our web site until these things are finalized. Remember that we want the best comrades out there in this thing so we better know what we are doing and have a plan.

Right now we are likely going to start in San Francisco with contacts in New York, Boston and Los Angeles. We are growing quickly and are more interest in making real world organizing than only cyber ones. I hope you will understand.

[Zeruzo]

Again, why form a whole new party?
Isn't that in every way shape and form against Marxist-Leninist principles?
Only Trotskites form new parties on every occasion :rolleyes: (That was a joke, for people without any humor).

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 10:52 am
Right now we are likely going to start in San Francisco with contacts in New York, Boston and Los Angeles. We are growing quickly and are more interest in making real world organizing than only cyber ones. I hope you will understand.
That to me sounds like 5 stalin kiddies starting up a club, in which two of you live in San Francisco so that must be the HQ, one lives in NY, the other in boston, and the last guy in LA.

Some group, from what I gather the PAB sounds more like a masonic social club that glorifies Marxism-Leninism, than a true revolutionary party, :rolleyes: .

[Nilats]

Originally posted by Scarlet Hammer+November 11, 2006 03:11 pm--> (Scarlet Hammer @ November 11, 2006 03:11 pm)
[email protected] 11, 2006 10:52 am
Right now we are likely going to start in San Francisco with contacts in New York, Boston and Los Angeles. We are growing quickly and are more interest in making real world organizing than only cyber ones. I hope you will understand.
That to me sounds like 5 stalin kiddies starting up a club, in which two of you live in San Francisco so that must be the HQ, one lives in NY, the other in boston, and the last guy in LA.

Some group, from what I gather the PAB sounds more like a masonic social club that glorifies Marxism-Leninism, than a true revolutionary party, :rolleyes: . [/b]
You know absolutely nothing about us so why make comments about something who don't have a clue about?

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 11:15 am
You know absolutely nothing about us so why make comments about something who don't have a clue about?
I was making an observation, based upon the large (LARGE!), amount of stupidity you and MLS have been spouting about your party, and posts you've made through out the forum.

[Black Dagger]

Nilats, you're in highschool, yes?

[Nilats]

We are forming a new party a revolutionary party. Sorry we are actually DOING something instead of just complaining about everyone and everything on the internet. Or going to some meaningless protest and then going home.

If you don't agree with what we're doing for either sectarian reasons or other reasons FINE, but there's no need to treat the party this negatively and this harshly just because you either don't like our politics or don't see why we it is needed.

We're revolutionaries trying to build a serious organization, where's your solidarity? I could get this kind of negetively from any right wing site.

[Cryotank Screams]

We are forming a new party a revolutionary party. Sorry we are actually DOING something instead of just complaining about everyone and everything on the internet. Or going to some meaningless protest and then going home.

Your missing the point, there is groups already active in all of those areas since they are big and well known cities, why wouldn't you want to join and work with them?


We're revolutionaries trying to build a serious organization, where's your solidarity? I could get this kind of negetively from any right wing site.

Where is yours? You and MLS denounce any revolutionary and Leftist sect and or group that isn't stalin enriched Marxism-Leninism.

[Nilats]

I don't believe I have denounced anybody, I defend my views but never said that Anarchists suck lolz , Like I saidin another thread things got heated with MLS and the anarchists with names and personal attacks being lashed by BOTH sides Read : both sides including the Marxist Leninist one.

As I understood the situation, MLS was practically alone defending the Marxist Leninist position against the anarchists and revisionists and the debate got hot and heavy and intense and emotions flared up. It happens. It's regrettable but it does happen.

Now with that being aside the opening thread was not an attack on anarchists or anyone and was a good polite post about the start of the new party.

Let's try to maintain a civil discourse.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Nilats+November 12, 2006 01:33 am--> (Nilats @ November 12, 2006 01:33 am) I don't believe I have denounced anybody, I defend my views but never said that Anarchists suck lolz , Like I saidin another thread things got heated with MLS and the anarchists with names and personal attacks being lashed by BOTH sides Read : both sides including the Marxist Leninist one.

As I understood the situation, MLS was practically alone defending the Marxist Leninist position against the anarchists and revisionists and the debate got hot and heavy and intense and emotions flared up. It happens. It's regrettable but it does happen.

Now with that being aside the opening thread was not an attack on anarchists or anyone and was a good polite post about the start of the new party.

Let's try to maintain a civil discourse. [/b]
Uh, guess you should read the topic post huh?


MLS
The Party of American Bolsheviks. This party is to be allied with the party of KR Krovin. This party is to be based on the traditional principles of Marxism-Leninism. It is to be an anti-revisionist, anti-anarchist and anti-trotskyist political party.

Seeing how every non-PAB member on this board is either a 'revisionist' (in your eyes of course), an anarchist or trotskyist, there is not going to be a civil discourse, your 'chairman' has declared war on everyone outside of your cyber-sect.

[Nilats]

Saying that you are a party you are in is not anarchist or not revisionist is hardly a denunciation!! It's like saying that when you or someone else says "I'm an anarchist, not a Marxist" someone calls that an attack on Marxists! This is nonsense!

The Chairman was merely saying what this party is and what it is NOT - fair game.

I am offering the olive branch here, I want the peace.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 11:44 am
Saying that you are a party you are in is not anarchist or not revisionist is hardly a denunciation!! It's like saying that when you or someone else says "I'm an anarchist, not a Marxist" someone calls that an attack on Marxists! This is nonsense!

The Chairman was merely saying what this party is and what it is NOT - fair game.

I am offering the olive branch here, I want the peace.
Then explain how attacked Leo in one post, and then attacked basically all the anarchists on the board in another by submitting his stalin essay coupled with his usual bullshit, and declared "anarchism is disproved!"

[Fawkes]

You know who you guys remind me of, the members of the Continental Congress. They assumed that the average person was to stupid to know anything so they decided to form an elitist group (the Electoral College) to do the decision making for them. And that is exactly what you are doing. I also find it funny how none of you guys have answered the question of how old you are. Lastly, why all the high security, do you honestly think the U.S. government is gonna waste money and undercover agents on your stupid wanna-be cyber party?

[MrDoom]

You know, it's almost a shame to restrict these guys. It's good humor. :D

[Red October]

Lastly, why all the high security, do you honestly think the U.S. government is gonna waste money and undercover agents on your stupid wanna-be cyber party?

becuase they want to feel special. when so few people meet their standards, they can feel like they're the best commies in the world.

[Pirate Utopian]

Nilats Ninel Xram would be the next fake account, yes?

[Fawkes]

Yeah, don't ban these guys it's funny.

[Red October]

revleft needs comedy to break the ice. i wish marx lenin stalin would be unrestricted and start posting again.

[Pirate Utopian]

atleast he wasnt desperatly trying to be funny like PA, he was geniunely a meglomanic and because he was for real it was funny

[Nilats]

Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 11, 2006 04:47 pm
Lastly, why all the high security, do you honestly think the U.S. government is gonna waste money and undercover agents on your stupid wanna-be cyber party?
For the last time, this is no cyber party. This has actually already been proven by one of our critics, (though inadvertantly) Apathy Maybe. He searched for us on google and found no other listings of us anywhere else on the net. He went on to claim that this means we don't have a lot of influence, as of right now, that's true, we're just starting.

BUT it also proves we're no cyber party: we could very easily go from internet site to internet site posting messages about the PAB but we do not. We only do so on this site because we believe that it has a lot of serious revolutionaries here that deserve our respect.

We really don't spend that much time at all on net, the vast majority is spent in the real world. We're against cyber parties and we plan on holding public meetings in the near future when we are ready to present our Party Programme in full. This should happen within the next month or two. It's serious business as we are calling on the most dedicated comrades so we better have an idea of what we are doing.

As for the "high security" there is none. What the Chairman said is that we will look over your posts, check your email and make any other background checks that are possible, (that's not high security, whatever that means, anyone with a computer can do that) but this is for members who approach us via online. Yes it does give us some protection against the US government, but more importantly it lets us now if you are a serious revolutionary or not, and if your politics fit in with our organization.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 02:35 pm
There is really no reason for this kind of harsh rhetoric, everyone "ends" at some point and time.
wrong. anarchists are demi-gods.. you are wannabe bacchants. :rolleyes:

and sorry for the "harsh rhetoric," but i can't be serious when the 'chairman' is a delusional snob and the party a self-important fuckfest. i disagree with leninists ideologically, but i am not *necessarily* rude to ANYONE. however, given this thread's abusiveness, i'm not particularly compelled to debate. why posit some dumb dichotomy between us revisionist assholes and the 'serious' revolutionaries? why throw around your party's name and advertise yourself as 'chairman'? what makes that illiterate ass so important.. the fact that he founded yet *another* party for the rabble to fall under? talk about unwelcoming!

i don't think it's fair to attack MLS's poetry no mo', but just take a look at that STUPID thread and watch his pointless ego grow-grow-grow on account of some snobbish lines he shit out of his fingers. ya, the prototypical leninist.. without the pretty rhetoric, of course. and this ain't one or two snide comments here and there.. this is his entire rich and pompous history on this board.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Scarlet Hammer+November 10, 2006 12:40 am--> (Scarlet Hammer @ November 10, 2006 12:40 am)
Marx Lenin [email protected] 09, 2006 08:10 pm
This is a VANGUARD! Not a mass political party - that will come later.

Do you even know what a vanguard is??
Yea, a group of intellectuals whom have no faith in the strength of the people, I know the whole concept of the vanguard theory, my point was it will go nowhere. [/b]
No a group of class consious workers who believe in worker organization rather than worker slaughters like every attempt at an anarchist revolution has resulted in.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 11:55 pm
No a group of class consious workers who believe in worker organization rather than worker slaughters like every attempt at an anarchist revolution has resulted in.
No, it's a group of intellectual workers who believe in the phantom dictatorship of the proletariat, to which when in power the vanguards members cease to become workers and instead become rulers or better yet masters.

Anarchist attempts did not slaughter the working class they were trying to emancipate the working class; the bourgeoisie slaughtered them.

Furthermore, I really don't think we should play the whole "more people died becuase of X," game, ;) .

[OneBrickOneVoice]

No, it's a group of intellectual workers who believe in the phantom dictatorship of the proletariat, to which when in power the vanguards members cease to become workers and instead become rulers or better yet masters.


Now you're against intellectual workers? How is it a phantom dictatorship of the proletariat? The DoP entails a worker state, of course there will be 'politicians' but they are under direct control of the workers and an be replaced if they fail to represent the workers.

You're wrong. The Vanguard is just a organized front of revolutionary workers. Anarchists seem to have a phobia against worker organization....

Anarchy cannot work because someone or some collective group of people must take control and establish the proletariat. It's a fairy tale believing otherwise. The bourgieous could easily take control as they have tried in the past.


Anarchist attempts did not slaughter the working class they were trying to emancipate the working class; the bourgeoisie slaughtered them.

It was the lack of planning which let to the slaughtering, it was the lack of worker organization, and it was the lack of real world common sense. This common sense was replaced with idealistic utopian thought which made the massarcres inevitable.

[Cryotank Screams]

Now you're against intellectual workers?

Never said that.


How is it a phantom dictatorship of the proletariat?

I called the DoP a phantom, meaning it's an illusion.


but they are under direct control of the workers and an be replaced if they fail to represent the workers.

Yea, the workers really controlled the USSR didn't they? The vanguard is under control of the ruling class ie. the vanguard, and they rule over the working class, and the working class have no power over said vanguard; this has been demonstrated in every Communist state.


You're wrong. The Vanguard is just a organized front of revolutionary workers. Anarchists seem to have a phobia against worker organization....

No, they are a group of rulers, and I have nothing against worker organization, I am against dictatorships, and masters.


It's a fairy tale believing otherwise.

No one truly needs a leader, that is a myth, and is one in which has kept the bourgeoisie and dictatorships in power all these years, and decades.

[Fawkes]

By establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat, you just create another proletariat. The difference between Anarchists and Leninists is that Anarchists always fight for the one being bullied. Leninists, on the other hand, fight to create a DoP which would simply result in another proletariat

[Rollo]

But if the proleteriat is the dictator and they are still working. Wouldn't they STILL be the proleteriat?

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 12, 2006 02:16 pm
By establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat, you just create another proletariat. The difference between Anarchists and Leninists is that Anarchists always fight for the one being bullied. Leninists, on the other hand, fight to create a DoP which would simply result in another proletariat
Huh? :huh: Do you even know what the proletariat, or the dictatorship thereof, is?

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

if you're a serious political organisation (which you're not... but for the point of your self-importance we'll go along with the pretense) why do you refer to your 'leader' by his internet pseudonym?

so much for being a real life organisation

[An archist]

touché

[Nilats]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2006 05:29 pm
if you're a serious political organisation (which you're not... but for the point of your self-importance we'll go along with the pretense) why do you refer to your 'leader' by his internet pseudonym?

so much for being a real life organisation
Huh? What are you saying? This is an internet message board, he is known by said name. What is wrong with me saying this name? How does giving his real life name matter at all about him or about this organization? And if you're trying to argue that a pseudonym by itself does not make one a "serious" revolutionary, then I guess you better tell that to Lenin, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh etc etc as I guess according to you they were not "serious" revolutionaries either! :lol:


touché

fool.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2006 03:56 pm
And if you're trying to argue that a pseudonym by itself does not make one a "serious" revolutionary, then I guess you better tell that to Lenin, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh etc etc as I guess according to you they were not "serious" revolutionaries either! :lol:


They used false names to prevent capture, MLS is using a false name for a message board, and could have given his real name, because last time I checked most countries have freedom of speech, but went ahead and kept using his username instead, that was the point.

[Nilats]

Originally posted by Scarlet Hammer+November 12, 2006 08:38 pm--> (Scarlet Hammer @ November 12, 2006 08:38 pm)
[email protected]ber 12, 2006 03:56 pm
And if you're trying to argue that a pseudonym by itself does not make one a "serious" revolutionary, then I guess you better tell that to Lenin, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh etc etc as I guess according to you they were not "serious" revolutionaries either! :lol:


They used false names to prevent capture, MLS is using a false name for a message board, and could have given his real name, because last time I checked most countries have freedom of speech, but went ahead and kept using his username instead, that was the point. [/b]
He has no point. Does ANYONE here give their real names on here? No. Why should the Chairman be any different? Besides, explain why does it matter what name somebody uses?!?! Names are entirely irrelevant, even more so over the internet. They are meaningless.

And lol "Freedom of speech"? :lol: How naive! Tell me, what other "freedoms" do the capitalists give you my sweet, innocent naive liberal? In reality, the bourgeois give freedoms only to the bourgeois, the proleteriat only have the illusion of freedom.

[Cryotank Screams]

Why should the Chairman be any different?

Because oh gee, didn't you know? He is a glorious and important Marxist-Leninist theoritician, that has made many important contributions already, and is leader of the fastest growing revolutionary group that is sweeping the nation, :o .

Point being, if he was/is so great and real as he claims he should/would have posted his real name instead of his username.


And lol "Freedom of speech"? :lol: How naive! Tell me, what other "freedoms" do the capitalists give you my sweet, innocent naive liberal? In reality, the bourgeois give freedoms only to the bourgeois, the proleteriat only have the illusion of freedom.

Freedom of speech is the term/name of the right, hence why I called it that dumbass, whether or not it, it truly is free is up for debate, my point being that generally he has the freedom to post on here, and organize a revolutionary group without the threat of arrest or capture, unlike the revoltionaries of the past.

I am not naive, I am infact a highly cynical, sardonic, and pessimistic person.
I am by no means a liberal.
Finally, you can ask my lovers, I'm far from innocent, ;) .

[Nilats]

Originally posted by Scarlet [email protected] 12, 2006 09:08 pm
Point being, if he was/is so great and real as he claims he should/would have posted his real name instead of his username.
Why should he? No one else does , I don't see why the Chairman should either. You have no point either. If you want his real name, come outside the internet and speak with him personally. You can contact him directly and I'm sure he'll talk to you.

Names are meaningless. The point of me posting all those revolutionaries who did use fake names proves the point - and not all revolutionaries did so to escape getting captures. Besides, you don't know anything about the Chairman's personal life, there may be personal reasons you don't understand , why he's not doing it.

Any event, it is of minor importance. We are here to talk about the party and it's message, not about one individual, no matter how great.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

because you're saying your party is a real life party, on the internet it's all well and fine to use the e-pseudonyms

however if he goes out in the real world to address the masses from some elevated podium under the pretense of being called "chairman marx lenin stalin" then the 'masses' are just going to keel over and head down to their local starbucks

you keep talking about your offline presence but have done nothing to warrant any such notion

and I really love how the only google reference to the PAB is a link to this discussion

[Nilats]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2006 09:51 pm

and I really love how the only google reference to the PAB is a link to this discussion
which proves we're not an online party: as has been addressed before, how EASY would it be to just go from website to website making some remark about "Join PAB" everyone! But we don't do that. The only website we have ever made some reasonable attempt at gaining members has been this one.

Furthermore, if this was just a joke, I doubt I would be spending all the time I am spending answering specific concerns and questions about the party.

The fact that you don't see us everywhere on Google indicates 1. We're a small and fairly recent party (which we freely admit) 2. We are not a cyber party and 3. We spend most of our time OUTSIDE the internet (which is why you don't see us all over the internet) and instead spend most of our time in the "real world" organizing and building our party.

[Louis Pio]

This thread is fun, thanks for providing a good laugh. Just wanted to answer a question:
He has no point. Does ANYONE here give their real names on here?

Well my first name is Teis so yes.

[Dimentio]

The funny thing is that MLS departed when he was restricted, and in the same time Nilats appeared. There is apparently evidence that they have different IP numbers, but who knows if Nilats/MLS is not using a proxy?

Moreover, how did MLS have access to CC in the first place? Is'nt that inclining that he may be a former user who was banned but who is back.

[Zeruzo]

Then how can he come back...

Nilats, stop ignoring questions here... why form a whole new party?

[apathy maybe]

Originally posted by Serpent+November 13, 2006 10:11 am--> (Serpent @ November 13, 2006 10:11 am) The funny thing is that MLS departed when he was restricted, and in the same time Nilats appeared. There is apparently evidence that they have different IP numbers, but who knows if Nilats/MLS is not using a proxy?

Moreover, how did MLS have access to CC in the first place? Is'nt that inclining that he may be a former user who was banned but who is back. [/b]
Damn. I was just about to post that MLS's last post was

Originally posted by Marx Lenin Stalin @ November [email protected] 2006 12:25 pm
go away liberal. This is a serious question.here http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292206058 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=71&t=58412&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292206058)

And Nilats' first post is

Nilats @ November [email protected] 2006 05:19 am
It has come to my attention that one of my friends and party member Marx Lenin Stalin or Chairman MLS has been restricted. But why? I know the man personally and I am in his party the PAB. Let me tell you that he is a total revolutionary communist and a great comrade as well as a great leader. From what I understand after speaking to him the other day is that things got heated when it was a huge debate between the anti Marxists let by the anarchists and the pro Marxist faction led by Chairman MLS. The Chairman had to deal with the anarchists almost by himself upholding the Marxist Leninist position and eventually words became hostile and personal on both sides. The Chairman regrets this and is willing to apologize and remember to be more polite in the future should he be given that chance and be unrestricted.

I know MLS personally, he is a great and very loyal very dedicated very sincere revolutionary and I urge you here to give him a second chance. He thinks very highly of this website and believes it can be an extremely useful place for revolutionaries. Thank you and I hope to maintain a civil discourse here on this thread. here http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292206639 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=71&t=58547&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292206639)

Since then Nilats has posted spam, trolling posts, crap about MLS and PAB, and replied to posts started by MLS (most of which have either been insults or congratulations to other posters). Only these two posts have actually had any content worth reading. http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292207213 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=58513&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292207213)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292208349 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=67&t=58658&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292208349)


I know this isn't really the proper place to put this, but what the hell. I feel that both Marx Lenin Stalin and Nilats are the same person, both are not at all useful to this board and do not add anything to discussion. Personally I would not object to them both being restricted (as Marx Lenin Stalin already is).

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 07:47 am
Then how can he come back...

Nilats, stop ignoring questions here... why form a whole new party?
He was only restricted, and he is not stupid, so he is using proxy. But what strikes me is that he apparently is hostile to the CC, or some of it's members.

[Cryotank Screams]

Actually I know almost for a fact that Nilats and MLS are indeed the same person, because due to me criticizing Nilats, MLS, Marxism-Leninism, and the PAB, Niltas sent me the following pm;


We have noticed you have been harassing and stalking us, this is not appreicated, please refrain. This message has been approved by our Chairman.

Seem odd to you?

Also what I find odd is that, Nilats always speaks on behalf of the MLS, and always seems to have the latest opinions of MLS, and what MLS is thinking; call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think MLS and Nilats are one and the same.

[Red October]

hopefully MLS will be unrestricted so we can start hearingg these decrees and pronouncements in the first person. i hate having a middle man, even if its only a sock puppet. nilats accused me of stalking him too. i wonder why he hasnt responded to these accusations yet

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Red October [email protected] 14, 2006 12:42 am
hopefully MLS will be unrestricted so we can start hearingg these decrees and pronouncements in the first person. i hate having a middle man, even if its only a sock puppet. nilats accused me of stalking him too. i wonder why he hasnt responded to these accusations yet
:huh:
Maybe he hasn't responded because his lil cult is full of shit and because he's nothing but a regular old troll
Word of advice, stop taking them serious

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Scarlet [email protected] 12, 2006 07:19 am

I called the DoP a phantom, meaning it's an illusion.

mmkay let me rephrase. How is it an illusion?


Yea, the workers really controlled the USSR didn't they? The vanguard is under control of the ruling class ie. the vanguard, and they rule over the working class, and the working class have no power over said vanguard; this has been demonstrated in every Communist state.

albeit the USSR was often harsh on workers sometimes, but if it wasn't a worker state then explain the mass improvements that directly benifited the working class?

Countries like the USSR were agarian based economies and were in dire need of industrialization. Nothing else mattered. If they hadn't rapidly and fiercly industrialized, they wouldn't have lasted 15 years. They'd of fell to the nazis in a second for starters.



No, they are a group of rulers, and I have nothing against worker organization, I am against dictatorships, and masters.

They are class conscious revolutionaries, who yes, lead the nation. I'm sorry but that is necessary of a state here in the real world.


No one truly needs a leader, that is a myth, and is one in which has kept the bourgeoisie and dictatorships in power all these years, and decades.

Really?

I could've sworn that government thing was to stop the massive chaos that ensues in situations where there is an utter lack of government

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 08:32 pm
Really?

I could've sworn that government thing was to stop the massive chaos that ensues in situations where there is an utter lack of government
:huh: Could you post some examples of this massive chaos that ensues in situations where there is an utter lack of government? Also, I'd like to point out that governments themselves have caused something far worse then "massive chaos"-- systematic destruction. Governments are responsible for holocausts, environmental destruction, species extinction, death in numbers unimaginable, and mass boredom.

[Cryotank Screams]

mmkay let me rephrase. How is it an illusion?

It's an illusion because it is not what it appears; it claims to be a dictatorship in which the working class has control of the state, and the working class is in control, however once in power the workers cease to be workers, because it is an impossibility to be both a worker and a ruler, simply impossible; so thus once you begin to rule via a state apparatus what makes you different from any other ruler? Nothing, and the vanguard is not under the control of the workers, therefore you can't have a DoP in any sense.


They are class conscious revolutionaries, who yes, lead the nation. I'm sorry but that is necessary of a state here in the real world.

Ooo, rulers well versed in Communist theory, sorry my mistake, still doesn't change the fact they were rulers and there is nothing revolutionary about rulers, nor do you really need rulers here in the real world.


Really?

I could've sworn that government thing was to stop the massive chaos that ensues in situations where there is an utter lack of government

Really? I could have sworn that Anarchy is order, and is in no sense chaos, or chaotic, therefore government is a useless cancer.