A question of Arms

[Blue Collar Bohemian]

I was just wondering who around here is actually armed, who has any sort of weapons training (formal or informal) and if so what kind of training? What kind of arms?

This sort of discussion is constitutionally legal in the US, though I understand if anyone is hesitant to post information such as this here, so it is only fair that I take the first step if I expect anyone else to follow suit.

I currently own a Yugoslavian-made M59/66 SKS. I've taken hunters safety and spent most of my childhood aware of the rules for using and taking care of a firearm. I did a fair amount of shooting at Scout camp and try to do some target shooting when I get the time and money required to do so.

[Sadena Meti]

I think everyone should learn to use firearms. It is a practical skill that is easy to acquire in the US. I typically recommend bolt action hunting rifles and small profile handguns. People like to mess around with semi-automatic assault rifles and large caliber handguns, but they aren't practical. Stick to 7.62 rifles and 9mm or .38 special handguns.

Stick to common weapons of average quality. Otherwise you end up relying on the exotic high-end gun when you should instead rely on your skill. Stick to common calibers as well, so the ammo is always available. Also, learning to acquire guns and ammunition without paperwork or records is a very useful skill. Thank gawd for gun shows. Cash and carry paradise. Up hear in the Midwest, there's a show almost every week within 100 miles of where I live.


"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but guns win the revolution."

[TheDifferenceEngine]

No guns for us in europe.

[Sadena Meti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 12:24 pm
No guns for us in europe.
Whenever I host guests from Europe or elsewhere, I always take them to a gun show, just to show them how insane this country is. Or take them to my local gun store that always has a full rack of AR-15s. The look on their face is priceless.

Every European knows there are lots of guns in the US, but the reality is always mindblowing.

[Marsella]

I currently own a Yugoslavian-made M59/66 SKS.

Awesome weapon. I have a .357 magnum, .22 Browning about 6 other shotguns (Beretta).

[NewMarxist4316]

I will be 20 years old in a month and was wondering if anyone knew what the Firearm laws are here in Texas, USA? I'm wanting to get a Colt .45 or a Berreta 9mm one day after I get a concealed weapons liscence. Thanks for any help anyone can give.

-Vladimir, AKA Newmarxist4316

[which doctor]

I know how to fire most guns and load some guns. I wish I had more training in gun loading & maintenance.

I'm actually a pretty good shot though ;)

[anarchista feminista]

well one i can't legally have one and two i don't want one. i know that guns don't kill people, people kill people. i suppose it depends on where you live and for protection it can be a good thing. i just don't like weapons at all i suppose.

[Blue Collar Bohemian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 05:26 pm
I will be 20 years old in a month and was wondering if anyone knew what the Firearm laws are here in Texas, USA? I'm wanting to get a Colt .45 or a Berreta 9mm one day after I get a concealed weapons liscence. Thanks for any help anyone can give.

-Vladimir, AKA Newmarxist4316
Most US states require you to be 21 to acquire a a CCW or Carry Concealed Weapon Permit. Texas, I am fairly sure is no exception. This doesn't mean you can't purchase a handgun from a private individual however, and I believe gun shows qualify as such. I would however suggest looking into the laws further before you go through with anything.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 06:26 pm
I will be 20 years old in a month and was wondering if anyone knew what the Firearm laws are here in Texas, USA? I'm wanting to get a Colt .45 or a Berreta 9mm one day after I get a concealed weapons liscence. Thanks for any help anyone can give.

-Vladimir, AKA Newmarxist4316
In most states its 18 for a long gun and 21 to buy a handgun I think.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

No guns for us in europe.

In all of Europe? There are some.

It's a shame though, that working people can't even defend themselves.

[NewMarxist4316]

What about a concealed weapon's liscence? Is 21 also in the States?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

In some states you can carry a weapon with no license.

[LoneRed]

ya, its 18 to get a hunting rifle, or rifle semi-automatic,

21 for a handgun

[NewMarxist4316]

Thanks alot yall for the information.

[Sadena Meti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 05:26 pm
I will be 20 years old in a month and was wondering if anyone knew what the Firearm laws are here in Texas, USA? I'm wanting to get a Colt .45 or a Berreta 9mm one day after I get a concealed weapons liscence. Thanks for any help anyone can give.

-Vladimir, AKA Newmarxist4316
.45 Colt? Assume you are thinking of the 1911? Very solid heavy piece of metal, very reliable. Cost you a grand though. I scooped up an Argentinean 1927 licensed clone for $500, love it.

However, for a first firearm, I usually recommend a .38 special revolver. You can pick one up for $300. Not too big, not too small, good stopping power, and a revolver is the easiest weapon to maintain.

Now, on to gun laws. Texas is rather interesting when it comes to concealed carry, because that is the ONLY way you are allowed to carry in Texas. If you have a transport license, you must conceal the weapon. Bit backwards, neh? On the bright side, those laws lead to the creation of Thunderwear! What a boon! You can sneak a .380 auto or a .38 revolver past almost any pat down with Thunderwear.

Now, as you are over 18, you can buy any gun from anyone, any store, you are clear. Well, almost any gun. I mean, for class 2's (AOW's [Any Other Weapon] and SBS's [Short Barrel Shotguns]) or class 3's (full autos) you have to go the extra mile. Aren't TLA's [Three Letter Acronyms] fun?

Now, I said you can buy any gun, but Texas's concealed carry laws make things interesting. In order to transport a handgun in public, you have to have a CCW permit. And you have to be 21 to have a CCW. You don't have to be 21 to buy or own a handgun, but once you take it off your property, you have to walk a fine line in order not to be in a state of "possession". Texas is weird that way.

So until you have a CCW, if you have a handgun you have to either be 1. on your property, 2. transporting it in your car from point A to point B, and it must be unloaded, and locked in your trunk or 3. at a firing range.

This applies only to Texas.

The best source of info on gun laws, and how to get around them, funnily enough is from the anti-gun lobby. Their website, like www.stategunlaws.org is supposed to "blow the whistle" and scare the anti-gun public. But if you know what you are looking for, it is a bloody criminal's handbook! "Oh, so that is how that loophole works" "You mean, if I drive one state over, I can do XYZ?"

[NewMarxist4316]

Thanks alot. That really helped me out. I'll be looking around the local gunstores. Thanks alot again.

[0ntology]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2006 10:03 am
well one i can't legally have one and two i don't want one. i know that guns don't kill people, people kill people. i suppose it depends on where you live and for protection it can be a good thing. i just don't like weapons at all i suppose.
Yea I hate guns as well. I personally don't see the point in them.

I'm glad there's laws against firearms in Australia.

Guns create fear. To protect themselves from fear, people acquire guns.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by 0ntology+October 30, 2006 10:03 pm--> (0ntology @ October 30, 2006 10:03 pm)
[email protected] 31, 2006 10:03 am
well one i can't legally have one and two i don't want one. i know that guns don't kill people, people kill people. i suppose it depends on where you live and for protection it can be a good thing. i just don't like weapons at all i suppose.
Yea I hate guns as well. I personally don't see the point in them.

I'm glad there's laws against firearms in Australia.

Guns create fear. To protect themselves from fear, people acquire guns. [/b]
Would you rather the government have a monopoly on gun ownership?

[Blue Collar Bohemian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 10:03 pm
Yea I hate guns as well. I personally don't see the point in them.

I'm glad there's laws against firearms in Australia.

Guns create fear. To protect themselves from fear, people acquire guns.
There seems to me to be two approaches to firearms. The first, and the one you have expressed is approaching them as weapons, who's only design is to kill. This view has its merits, but to me seems totally disconnected from the history of guns as tools. This brings me to the second view of firearms, that is one where they are viewed like any other man made item in this world, that of a tool. A firearm that is treated with the respect and care it deserves is not a danger to anyone.

[midnight marauder]

I'm glad there's laws against firearms in Australia.

Are you a pacifist? If not, would you agree with FoB's statement on a monopoly of gun ownership? Would you be okay with the only guns in a society belonging to the military and the police? How would a revolution happen?

I mean if you want to talk about fear, in a historical context gun control's roots are firmly placed in the idea of keeping a segment of a given population in fear of the ruling classes, or at least to keep them unable to revolt. In the US, for example, there's significant ammounts of documents detailing in depth and with certain clarity that gun control was little more than a tool to keep afrikans "in their place." And of course there's the well known scenario of how one of the first things the Nazis did when they came into power was take arms away from the German public.

Then again, if you are a pacifist, I have at least some idea of where you're coming from. Otherwise, it strikes me as totally inconsistent with revolutionary leftism.

edit: Haha, I just thought I'd add this 'cause I thought it was funny. I just turned on the TV, and a comedian was on talking about her boyfriend who was becoming a naturalized US citizen. She was quizzing him over the consitution, and asks him what the 2nd amendment states. He respons, "That's easy. The second amendment is the right to bear arms, and it's the most important amendment."

And the girlfriend goes, "Woah! Easy there. The first amendment, the right to free speech, is the most important. That's why it's the first."

The boyfriend responds, "No it isn't. If you have a gun, you can say whatever you want."

:lol::lol::lol:

[Sadena Meti]

Firearms are not tools, they are weapons. They were not made as hunting devices and then adapted to warfare, other way around.

The "point" of a firearm is to project a metal jacketed lead mass at high speeds so that it enters the body of another human being and causes massive tissue and organ damage. And when you are shot, it is not like in the movies where you suddenly fall over dead, with a cry of "aye yee!!" Death takes time. Seconds, minutes, hours, maybe days.

A gun is a killing thing. Just accept that and move on, don't try and dance around it.


As Queen said "People get shot by people, people with guns."

[Marsella]

Well its pretty clear weapons are needed for revolution.

But are weapons needed in a communist society? Some would argue that they should still be used for sport etc. But I remember various communists arguing that the army in a communist society (assuming no external threats) would not be needed. Or does that simply mean that an army does not exist but weapons are still allowed?

Would it be worthwhile to have a full ban on weapons (guns)?

[Sadena Meti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 11:30 pm
Well its pretty clear weapons are needed for revolution.

But are weapons needed in a communist society? Some would argue that they should still be used for sport etc. But I remember various communists arguing that the army in a communist society (assuming no external threats) would not be needed. Or does that simply mean that an army does not exist but weapons are still allowed?

Would it be worthwhile to have a full ban on weapons (guns)?
A killing thing is a thing of power. Death has a way of ending an argument. An armed population is a population of equal power. No centralized government can raise an army to oppress a people who are an army unto themselves.

So the condition of having no army is almost the same as having an army that is the size of the entire population. If you consolidate arms in the hands of the government, you consolidate lethal power away from the people.

I suppose the only solution would be to destroy every last gun on earth. Then we'll just have to worry about drive-by bow-and-arrow attacks. "Bust a Cap" would become "Bust a Shaft".


Weapons will always exist, even if we devolve back to the level of rocks and sticks. Mankind has been very resourceful in finding ways to kill one another with whatever they happen to have at hand. Look at the Middle Ages.

Eliminate the reason to kill, because there will always be ways to do it once you have a reason. Even if you have to crush their throat with your bare hands.

*edit - fuck I'm morbid tonight...

[Marsella]

I Just found this:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Its wikipedia for everyone and about as reliable as the words of GWB

[Blue Collar Bohemian]

Originally posted by rev-[email protected] 30, 2006 11:26 pm
Firearms are not tools, they are weapons. They were not made as hunting devices and then adapted to warfare, other way around.

The "point" of a firearm is to project a metal jacketed lead mass at high speeds so that it enters the body of another human being and causes massive tissue and organ damage. And when you are shot, it is not like in the movies where you suddenly fall over dead, with a cry of "aye yee!!" Death takes time. Seconds, minutes, hours, maybe days.

A gun is a killing thing. Just accept that and move on, don't try and dance around it.


As Queen said "People get shot by people, people with guns."
I didn't say that a firearm isn't designed to kill. It is indeed a killing thing, but that killing is not random; not wild. In the hands of a trained man the killing is with purpose and intent. In the hands of the revolutionary its purpose is clear. It is a tool with which to end argument and settle debate.

[subcal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 06:07 pm

Not sure this is 'legal' in Australia (being no Bill of Rights) but why wouldn't they want people to discuss a legitimate sport? Over here its pretty difficult to get a license- not difficult just takes time (have to be 18, get club support, wait 6 months). I'm not complaining about this though :ph34r:
the only reason any good australian has a liscence is to buy ammo, I don't mind jumping through the hurdles to keep my legit fire-arms. I certainly wouldn't place all my eggs in one basket however and expect all arms not to be confiscated and severe penalties for not handing them over when someone drops the hat in the struggle.

I've got a heap of kit, I also reccomend that people re-load cases not just for the price factor but it also serves a purpose....

[0ntology]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2006 03:05 pm

I'm glad there's laws against firearms in Australia.

Are you a pacifist? If not, would you agree with FoB's statement on a monopoly of gun ownership? Would you be okay with the only guns in a society belonging to the military and the police? How would a revolution happen?...
Yes, in those terms, I guess you could say I am a pacifist. I don't particulary agree on using violence to gain and/or maintain power. That goes for any country. That being said, I am also intrigued by the means of which violence is inflicted. For example, I enjoy studies of individuals certain frame of mind, when committing a violent act, i.e. Hitler. I would love to know what he was thinking and his state of mind during the Holocaust.

But that isn't completely relevant to the question. Excuse me for digressing.

What do FoB and yourself mean by the term 'a monopoly of gun ownership'?

No I wouldn't be okay with guns only belonging to the military and the police. I don't think there should be any guns at all.

Guns may have originally been developed for use as a hunting device. But in todays society, it has been taken way out of control. Despite the fact of news being bias, how many times do you hear of random gun killings, specifically in schools, in America, compared to other countries?

Nothing against America, just stating that because America is a commonly used country name, when discussing gun laws.

[subcal]

What do FoB and yourself mean by the term 'a monopoly of gun ownership'?


If the government doesn't trust me with my guns, why should I trust them with thiers?


Oh and guns are never out of anyones reach, I remember reading a ragnar benson book on 'guerilla gunsmithing' and it listed some primitive designs of makeshift firearms he came accross in his years.

Guerillas in Kenya probably did the best pipe gun in the book, they used them once to aquire a soldiers rifle much like the way the "Liberator" pistol (stamped steel single shot .45 acp) was used in the second world war, and later the same fashion as the "deer" pistol (was a CIA job, some milling on a single shot 9mm) single serving device that exists only to cap someone or to upgrade your device.

Whilst overseas I was lucky enough to fire a replica liberator pistol, seems to this day they are still stamped out and produced in makeshift workshops and given to guerillas around the shop to upgrade.

[Nex]

Well I am in the USMC so I have a greater degree of training than your average citizen. I own 2 assault rifles, a shotgun, and 2 pistols. I prefer not to state any specifics on my personal armory.

[anarchista feminista]

http://i11.tinypic.com/4i1s8k9.jpg

[armedpoet]

what the Firearm laws are here in Texas, USA

Whoever draws first doesn't get shot.

I'm not a pacifist but I prefer more sophisticated and traditional weapons ie your fists.

Also any successful revolution must obviously have popular support and therefore would win by sheer mass.

[anarchista feminista]

yeah i'm not one to fight, but if it came to it, it'd be no weapons. down to hands and teeth if you're into that ;) haha

[Nex]

Also any successful revolution must obviously have popular support and therefore would win by sheer mass.

Popular support yes majority support no. It is the vocal activist minority that will be the means of change. Due to the advancement of modern arms and military tactics your numbers would have to be enormous like 1000:1 to win without firearms or modern guerilla tactics.

[Blue Collar Bohemian]

Anyone have any suggestions for what someone should consider when purchasing their first firearm?

[An archist]

Buy it from someone you know or otherwise you're likely to get shot?
Dunno

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Blue Collar [email protected] 02, 2006 05:14 pm
Anyone have any suggestions for what someone should consider when purchasing their first firearm?
Liscensced dealer. Or a drug dealer. Both will probably rob you anyway.

[Sadena Meti]

Originally posted by Blue Collar [email protected] 02, 2006 02:14 am
Anyone have any suggestions for what someone should consider when purchasing their first firearm?
Buy it at a gun show. That way you have a massive inventory to browse, and no sales pressure. Most of you want a handgun as opposed to a rifle. Think about what your are looking for, what qualities.

Are you looking for "your first gun" or "your only gun?"
Are you looking for something concealable?
Are you looking for something massive to make you look like a bad ass or something moderate that you can actually handle?
Are you thinking personal defense, home defense, or personal offense?
Do you want short range or long range?
And how much money do you want to spend?


Give me your answers and I'll give my recommendation. You can give multiple answers to any question because nothing is black and white, it's all trade offs.

[Comeback Kid]

Guy across the road used to have a amoury, went out too the range a couple of times with a .22 aa glock and a .303 ( which i used once and nearly dislocated my shoulder.)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I was just wondering who around here is actually armed, who has any sort of weapons training (formal or informal) and if so what kind of training? What kind of arms?

I am considering joining a gun club. After 6 months I can get my own pistol. I'll have to wait until 21 to get a rifle, I believe. If I don't have a criminal record, that is. :unsure:

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Blue Collar [email protected] 02, 2006 07:14 am
Anyone have any suggestions for what someone should consider when purchasing their first firearm?
Different people prefer different fire arms. It depends on your intention, what you plan to do with it, an automatic SMG isn't as good a weapon to hunt deer as a V10 for example, so consider what it's for.
If you want it for a bit of fun to fire off in your back yard at tins or whatever then it's up to you - just pick the gun you think is sexiest. If you want it for practical self defence I would recommend a handgun, the cheapest one u can find - and hope you never have to use it.

Of course, above all, I would recommend you check the laws surrounding the purchase of such a fire arm, for example in the UK, make sure you get a licence. And definitely don't let kids get hold of them. If you want to legally practice using it, go on hunting trips and clay pidgeon shooting - or most obviously on fireing ranges. If you live in the UK, some of these things are illegal, so perhaps go airsofting or take a holiday to the states.

The thing is that although firearms can be useful in matters of self defence, they're not immediatly useful for revolutionary struggle in the west. At the moment, I would say that deploying firearms in the class struggle, would be incredibly counter-productive - and suicidal, setting back progess by decades.

[Jesusstick]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2006 08:16 am
I don't think there should be any guns at all.

But in todays society, it has been taken way out of control. Despite the fact of news being bias, how many times do you hear of random gun killings, specifically in schools, in America, compared to other countries?
First off, even if there was a complete, worldwide ban on firearms, it would be completely ineffective. As in, it simply would not work.

I know several people who have buried numerous firearms and loads of ammunition in the Mojave Desert. Others who have buried items elsewhere. There is no way any government / non-government would be able to get them all.

Also, making a gun out of plumbing supplies is not all that difficult. So have fun trying to find and destroy all ammunition.

Do you know why school massacres are nearly always committed with firearms? They're one of the simplest tools to use for killing someone, and one of the safest for the murderer (because you do not have to be near your victim to kill them).

If there was a way to make all firearms and ammunition and ability to create firearms/ammunition disappear, people would use other methods to kill people.

Knives. Bombs. Gas. Sling-shots. Bows. Crossbows. Poison.

But you see, when no one in a school has guns except for the lawless (as it is illegal in the US to possess a gun on school grounds without being a police officer), then there is no reliable way for someone to stop a school shooter. However, if, let's say, all of the teachers in a school are armed, the second someone pulls out a gun and starts shooting, there's someone to return fire quite quickly, and most likely stop the "bad guy".

---------------------

Really, how can you guys call yourselves "revolutionary leftists" if you oppose firearms ownership and violence?

Revolution without violence is like sex with a dildo.

[RNK]

Oh please.. claiming that the revolution will be one solely by the sheer mass of the majority is a pipedream... how exactly do you expect the majority to come to your side? The enemy controls almost every media outlet, every television station, every radio station, and warps and skews any piece of information in its favour. If you're going to sit around waiting for the day that 51% of the people want a Revolution you're going to be waiting a very, very long time.

A sizable amount of the population must be gathered to your support (in the thousands), enough to sustain it; otherwise, the true support of the masses will only happen once you have proven to them that you are a force for truth and justice and equality.

Anyway back on topic. I'm looking to buy a Chinese-made SKS here in Canada for about $150, which is fairly cheap IMO. There are, however, an annoying set of restrictions and laws here, like needing to be a member of a gun club, needing a possession license or something, etc etc.

[Blue Collar Bohemian]

Originally posted by [email protected]mber 10, 2006 03:50 am
Anyway back on topic. I'm looking to buy a Chinese-made SKS here in Canada for about $150, which is fairly cheap IMO. There are, however, an annoying set of restrictions and laws here, like needing to be a member of a gun club, needing a possession license or something, etc etc.
I bought the Yugo version of that gun for $110 US over the counter. It took less then an hour to fill out the paperwork and get the over the phone background check done. (I guess that means I haven't been busy enough if I still pass US Federal Background Checks. :lol: )

Its a pretty solid firearm and you can get ammo pretty damn cheap. I bought a box of 20 7.62x39mm rounds for $4.50