American Students vs The rest of the world.

[R_P_A_S]

why do you guys think that american students are way more disrespectful towards teachers than students of other countries? For example. While I was growing up in Mexico and went to school there there was lots of respect towards the teachers. It just seem to me that kids weren't ass rebellious and as rude to teachers and their elders than when i came to the United states. I was talking to this girl from the Philippines and she said the same thing. that she was shocked on ho students would raise their voice and just be disrespectful towards teachers.

don't get me wrong.. there are the bad apples in Mexico and other countries but generaly the attitude is way more worst towards teachers from teens in the U.S. I always felt as if there were no respect. why do you think this is?

[loveme4whoiam]

Probably because students in the US take education for granted - they know they are going to be able to walk into a job, even if it is a low-paying job, at the end of it, so don't see education as a necessary process. Students in other countries have not yet picked up this sentiment (and long may they not) so respect the teachers and the education system.

Students in the UK have this too - to the same degree as the US I don't know, as I've never been there.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2006 09:16 am
why do you guys think that american students are way more disrespectful towards teachers than students of other countries? For example. While I was growing up in Mexico and went to school there there was lots of respect towards the teachers. It just seem to me that kids weren't ass rebellious and as rude to teachers and their elders than when i came to the United states. I was talking to this girl from the Philippines and she said the same thing. that she was shocked on ho students would raise their voice and just be disrespectful towards teachers.

don't get me wrong.. there are the bad apples in Mexico and other countries but generaly the attitude is way more worst towards teachers from teens in the U.S. I always felt as if there were no respect. why do you think this is?
Teachers were usually the same culture as the students for one.
The students probably payed to go to school.

In america we have an exuberantly high prison rate.
The same people that put us in there also snd us to school....
And its obvious.
The lessons are irrelevant unless your a middle calss white.
School aint shit.
Im not sending my kids.
It just makes you feeel like your family must be stupid fuck ups because "you have freedom to be anything you want and its all your choice"

I cant stand having some menopausal out of touch cracker ***** telling me whats apropriate in her classroom when she is telling me my family chose its economic situation and I am going to go the home I live in and look for my clothes in the garbage bags Im living out of.

The reason we dont respect school is because it doesnt respect us.
It is not education. Its assmiliation. I had very little respect for school.


Aint nobody buying that.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2006 04:16 am
why do you guys think that american students are way more disrespectful towards teachers than students of other countries? For example. While I was growing up in Mexico and went to school there there was lots of respect towards the teachers. It just seem to me that kids weren't ass rebellious and as rude to teachers and their elders than when i came to the United states. I was talking to this girl from the Philippines and she said the same thing. that she was shocked on ho students would raise their voice and just be disrespectful towards teachers.

don't get me wrong.. there are the bad apples in Mexico and other countries but generaly the attitude is way more worst towards teachers from teens in the U.S. I always felt as if there were no respect. why do you think this is?
Maybe its because students in America have recognized the teachers as the ruling class, therefore have found them to be their class enemy.

[Whitten]

Without education, the working class cant expect to rule itself, it wont have the knowledge it needs to do so successfully. Ofcourse the system's designed to benifit the bourgeois, but in the same way the labour is. Do you stop working because it benifits the bourgeois more than you, know because starving on the streets benifits you even less, and the bourgeois have no end of cheep labour. By walking out on education your only harming your chances to gain access to real knowledge, and, believe it or not, better jobs.

[violencia.Proletariat]

American students are probably disrespectful because of the way education is organized. It's top down organization. The students are hearded around and not allowed any control over their education. The teachers are poisitons of authority (but in reality are fellow oppressed and should be organized with not against) closest to the students. Therefore, you have rebellion against them.

However, in the past and present on higher levels of education, you have strong teacher/student cooperation. They organize together for the common goal. We must realize that top down education is not the way to go, it should be student lead and teacher guided. However, thats no excuse for teachers to be pricks in the mean time :P .


Probably because students in the US take education for granted - they know they are going to be able to walk into a job, even if it is a low-paying job, at the end of it, so don't see education as a necessary process.

That is not true at all. No one walks into a job in this country if they are of the proletarian class. Even after being educated, work is getting harder and harder to come by.

[BreadBros]

The lessons are irrelevant unless your a middle calss white.
School aint shit.
Im not sending my kids.

So mathematics, science etc. are only relevant to middle-class whites?


It just makes you feeel like your family must be stupid fuck ups because "you have freedom to be anything you want and its all your choice"

I think the fact that there is such a sharp contrast between what is taught in school as the prevailing American ideology and what reality is is one of the most potent ways to get people to challenge conventional ideas.


I cant stand having some menopausal out of touch cracker ***** telling me whats apropriate in her classroom when she is telling me my family chose its economic situation and I am going to go the home I live in and look for my clothes in the garbage bags Im living out of.

What an accurate Marxist analysis.. :rolleyes: Disagreeing with people because they're menopausal and white?


Maybe its because students in America have recognized the teachers as the ruling class, therefore have found them to be their class enemy.

Except they aren't members of the ruling class. They're usually poorly-paid, highly-educated members of the working class (at least in public school). While they may re-iterate bourgeois values, they dont necessarily set or determine them. Traditionally they've also often been a radical leftist force, having the ability to analyze social education more than most.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by breadbros
Except they aren't members of the ruling class. They're usually poorly-paid, highly-educated members of the working class (at least in public school). While they may re-iterate bourgeois values, they dont necessarily set or determine them. Traditionally they've also often been a radical leftist force, having the ability to analyze social education more than most.
To students they are the ruling class. They deal out the authority and are the law in their classrooms. I have nothing agains teachers since most of them are proletarian, but they must abandon their authoritarian positions and be willing to cooperate with student-run schools.

Yeah, most teachers I know are complete dicks.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2006 05:15 pm
Without education, the working class cant expect to rule itself, it wont have the knowledge it needs to do so successfully. Ofcourse the system's designed to benifit the bourgeois, but in the same way the labour is. Do you stop working because it benifits the bourgeois more than you, know because starving on the streets benifits you even less, and the bourgeois have no end of cheep labour. By walking out on education your only harming your chances to gain access to real knowledge, and, believe it or not, better jobs.
School gives you anything but an education. For the most part it's work-preparedness training. I once read a book where the author commented on how he quit high school because it interfered with his learning. I found that so true and so simple. And better jobs is not what the revolution is all about.

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by FoB+October 27, 2006 12:30 am--> (FoB @ October 27, 2006 12:30 am)
[email protected] 26, 2006 05:15 pm
Without education, the working class cant expect to rule itself, it wont have the knowledge it needs to do so successfully. Ofcourse the system's designed to benifit the bourgeois, but in the same way the labour is. Do you stop working because it benifits the bourgeois more than you, know because starving on the streets benifits you even less, and the bourgeois have no end of cheep labour. By walking out on education your only harming your chances to gain access to real knowledge, and, believe it or not, better jobs.
School gives you anything but an education. For the most part it's work-preparedness training. I once read a book where the author commented on how he quit high school because it interfered with his learning. I found that so true and so simple. And better jobs is not what the revolution is all about. [/b]
Yes, bourgeois education is focused on work-preparedness. Harry Cleaver has a great piece on the economic function of schools, its called "On Schoolwork and the Struggle Against It" http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~hmcleave/OnSchoolwork200606.pdf . I think it gives a far more complex and realistic depiction of teachers (or professors in the case of the text) than "they are all dicks" and puts them into a Marxist analysis of the way society influences curriculum and structure at school and how different teachers respond to that. Ultimately many of the structures of school will need to be radically changed in a post-capitalist society, getting rid of much of the homework and testing which is mostly designed to gauge readiness to work, for example. However, to argue that school does not give any education or is unvaluable is a fundamentally flawed analysis. When Marx talks about the destruction of capitalism hes not talking about the creation of a new idealist world. The roots of communism/socialism are created in capitalism itself. Part of that is the fact that capitalist economic organization necessitates highly-educating workers as profit-maximizing, however thats an inherent contradiction of capitalism as it invalidates the necessity of capital ownership to a large extent. Tools such as science, mathematics, history are all still valuable to know and learn and are extremely helpful in ascertaining your own knowledge of the world, indepently gained.

[Dreadnaht1]

I think this has to do with the general view America has on our public school systems. Does anyone care when teachers protest? Not really. And when it comes to public school budgeting, it's almost a joke. If you treat the institution with little or no respect and give the teachers little to no respect, on a governmental level, then why should the students? Trickledown.

[Marx Lenin Stalin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 04:02 am
I think this has to do with the general view America has on our public school systems. Does anyone care when teachers protest? Not really. And when it comes to public school budgeting, it's almost a joke. If you treat the institution with little or no respect and give the teachers little to no respect, on a governmental level, then why should the students? Trickledown.
The best post in this thread. The most sensical.

LOL @ "the students have recognized the teachers as the ruling class" The typical American student can't even tell you what the ruling class is, much less define who is and isn't that person: do you believe all American students are left wing intellectuals? Sadly they are not. Most American and first world students are far too busy with Britney Spears, video games and MTV to care about politics and the identifiaction of some ruling class.

The rebellion students have is not based on revolutionary values, for if that is so how does one explain that much of rebellion inside the classroom is from privileged middle class white students while the more well behaved ones tend to be from other countries- Asia, Latin America, etc.

[Pawn Power]

Maybe its because students in America have recognized the teachers as the ruling class, therefore have found them to be their class enemy.

??? Wow, that is a bizarre statement. You could make an argument that many teachers actively participate in the "conditioning" of society but you must not make that a total generalization.

Some of the most active comrades I know are teachers. They believe, and I agree, that as a teacher you can influence youth towards revolution. That revolution can start in the classroom and with education.

I am aware that most teachers do the complete opposite to this but you cannot right off teachers in general. I am also aware of the function of schools as a tool to indoctrinate the youth by primarily reinforcing ideas of hierarchy and obedience, as well as biased history lessons. Nevertheless we live in this society and teacher can bring revolution to a classroom just like a worker can bring it to the factory. There tactics are often a bit more subtle.

[rouchambeau]

Can this be moved?

[colonelguppy]

why should they be respectful to teachers?

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 12:28 am
I have nothing agains teachers since most of them are proletarian, but they must abandon their authoritarian positions and be willing to cooperate with student-run schools.

Yeah, most teachers I know are complete dicks.
:lol:

Will elementary schools be run by the students?

This is the funniest thread so far, because it's the most striking example of people being willfully stupid and then having the audacity to complain about the effects.

"I like hate everything and everything sucks man, but it really pisses me off when that attitude doesn't get me anywhere. It's like you'd think I'd learn from that man, but screw that dude, cuz' like I totally have the right to be rewarded for doing whatever I want, because it's like totally unfair to have to, you know, not do what I want to do all the time. Yeah dude, I'll have another bong hit."

:lol:

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 09:49 pm
why should they be respectful to teachers?
because they are human beings and they stand up ther teaching you stuff about math, science or whatever. they care and want you to learn. (a model teacher does)

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+October 30, 2006 05:32 pm--> (R_P_A_S @ October 30, 2006 05:32 pm)
[email protected] 30, 2006 09:49 pm
why should they be respectful to teachers?
because they are human beings and they stand up ther teaching you stuff about math, science or whatever. they care and want you to learn. (a model teacher does) [/b]
in that case i would agree, respect is due, if they are competent. however i haven't met to many teachers in my experience with public education that i truly respected as educators, most hide behind their teaching position as their platform for being right.

in levels of higher education respect for professors seems to be much higher, maybe because you have to pay for the class and you want to make the most out of it.

[Capitalist Lawyer]

"I like hate everything and everything sucks man, but it really pisses me off when that attitude doesn't get me anywhere. It's like you'd think I'd learn from that man, but screw that dude, cuz' like I totally have the right to be rewarded for doing whatever I want, because it's like totally unfair to have to, you know, not do what I want to do all the time. Yeah dude, I'll have another bong hit."

Don't forget the golden quip that is routinely said around here:

"She told me to keep quiet and do my work...I'm oppressed!"

"What a fascist piece of shit!" "Let's strike!"

[Qwerty Dvorak]

I have to say I agree with the cappies on this one, I'm so fucking sick of supposed Communists *****ing and whining about education. More to come later.

GON DRINKIN

[Johnny Anarcho]

Its because the American education system is a piece of shit compared to those around the world. Respect towards elders isnt taught that much or even held as a value in American society, this is a tragedy.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Johnny [email protected] 05, 2006 04:03 pm
Its because the American education system is a piece of shit compared to those around the world. Respect towards elders isnt taught that much or even held as a value in American society, this is a tragedy.
Why should I respect my elders? What if my elders are reactionary pieces of shit?

[Johnny Anarcho]

Originally posted by FoB+November 05, 2006 09:11 pm--> (FoB @ November 05, 2006 09:11 pm)
Johnny [email protected] 05, 2006 04:03 pm
Its because the American education system is a piece of shit compared to those around the world. Respect towards elders isnt taught that much or even held as a value in American society, this is a tragedy.
Why should I respect my elders? What if my elders are reactionary pieces of shit? [/b]
Let them be reactionary, if they dont agree then its their own fault. Besides, once your old you wont want the youth picking on you. I'm 16 and I respect my mom and nothing but good has come from it.

[red team]

The greatest scientist, Albert Einstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein), in the twentieth century was a terrible student that flunked out of his engineering exams. He won 3 nobel prizes in physics.

The greatest architect, Buckminster Fuller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller), in the twentieth century never graduated from college. He was the inventor of the geodesic dome. One of the strongest geometrical structure to be constructed.

One of the greatest mathematician, Benoit Mandelbrot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beno%C3%AEt_Mandelbrot), in the twentieth century never learned multiplication past the five times table. He passed university entrance exams by visualizing the geometry of the problem. He developed a whole new branch of mathematics called fractals.

What have these examples of genius shown us except that there's very little correlation between being "schooled" and being intelligent, innovative and creative?

[Johnny Anarcho]

Originally posted by red [email protected] 06, 2006 01:52 am
The greatest scientist, Albert Einstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein), in the twentieth century was a terrible student that flunked out of his engineering exams. He won 3 nobel prizes in physics.

The greatest architect, Buckminster Fuller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller), in the twentieth century never graduated from college. He was the inventor of the geodesic dome. One of the strongest geometrical structure to be constructed.

One of the greatest mathematician, Benoit Mandelbrot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beno%C3%AEt_Mandelbrot), in the twentieth century never learned multiplication past the five times table. He passed university entrance exams by visualizing the geometry of the problem. He developed a whole new branch of mathematics called fractals.

What have these examples of genius shown us except that there's very little correlation between being "schooled" and being intelligent, innovative and creative?
True but these are very rare cases. Also, the people you cited were German and German society encourages education and learning as to where American society reidicules it.

[D_Bokk]

I have great respect for my teachers, at least the ones who don't lie about communism. Math and Science teachers can always be admired by anyone... who isn't a religious quack. English and History teachers are generally up in the air dependent on their personal agendas.

People who think that American students are "rebelling" against the system by being disrespectful are idiots. The teachers are getting paid about the same as someone who works in a factory. Their whole life is based around aiding others; they're direct proof that communism will work.

Americans are all around douches to their teachers because they're spoiled brats. I would hope you wouldn't look at a child screaming in a grocery store as being "revolutionary" because that's exactly what these "rebels" at school are -- cry babies.

[red team]

Excerpts from the Buckminster Fuller wikipedia site.


Originally posted by wikipedia+--> (wikipedia)Fuller was sent to Milton Academy, in Massachusetts. Afterwards, he began studying at Harvard but was expelled from the university twice: first, for entertaining an entire dance troupe; and second, for his "irresponsibility and lack of interest." By his own appraisal, he was a non-conforming misfit in the fraternity environment.[/b]


Originally posted by wikipedia+--> (wikipedia)Between his sessions at Harvard, he worked for a time in Canada as a mechanic in a textile mill, and later as a laborer working 12 hours a day in the meat-packing industry.[/b]


[email protected]
In 1927 at the age of 32, bankrupt and jobless, living in inferior housing in Chicago, Illinois, he saw his beloved young daughter Alexandra die of the complications of polio and spinal meningitis. He felt responsible, and this drove him to drink and to the verge of suicide. At the last moment he decided instead to embark on "an experiment, to find what a single individual can contribute to changing the world and benefiting all humanity."

Einstein remarking on Buckminster Fuller (http://www.banned-books.com/truth-seeker/1995archive/122_2/ts222a.html)


Who was R. Buckminster Fuller?
Einstein felt that Bucky had a "true and intuitive understanding of his work." He marveled at Bucky's ability to turn this theory into practice. He once said, "Young man, you amaze me. I cannot conceive of anything I have ever done, having the slightest practical application." Bucky, while being a great thinker, was also a very practical man.