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MrDoom
26th October 2006, 01:42
How did the stateless, classless, primitive society develop into the so-called slave society? When did it develop?

BreadBros
26th October 2006, 07:31
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2006 12:42 am
How did the stateless, classless, primitive society develop into the so-called slave society? When did it develop?
I'm not sure that it did. New historical evidence suggests that Marx/Engels may have been wrong about some of the approximation on class society that they wrote about. It doesn't prove them wrong, in fact the newer evidence shows almost definitive proof of their ideas on class-based material development, it just shows that they were wrong when they were writing about the very distant past -- which they had little information on.

Most historical evidence (artifacts, archeological evidence, etc.) suggests that hunter-gatherer bands (the stateless, classless, primitive society you are referring to) developed into increasingly more complex and more stratified societies. The reason for this is the development of various technologies, primarily agriculture, that engender divisions of labor. Most societies tended to solve organizational and management problems by appointing rulers to coordinate economic matters. You see, in primitive society each individual or familial unit fended for itself to feed itself. With agriculture and the division of labor, that became impossible as different individuals produced different things (meat, grain, fruits, etc), so ruling classes developed to manage this, and to lead societies into conflict or defend societies from one another, etc.

You can see this today even. Remember, not all societies develop the same, some are inhibited by geographical factors, isolation, lack of good crop plants, etc. There are still "primitive" societies of humans if you go to New Guinea and other isolated places.

Slavery could only develop once fairly strong societies developed, my guess would be adequately strong city-states and the such. Slavery developed out of a desire for cheap labor, war, conquest, things of that nature. It likely only developed long after primitive societies became hierarchical, as it seems economically unlikely before that.

If you're interested in old history and societal development like this, the book I would recommend is Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel, its very good, enjoyable, easy to understand, and somewhat materialist. You can read a primer on it that may give you a good picture of what hes talking about on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_Germs_and_Steel but you should read the book anyway. If you have any more questions, please post them, Im pretty interested in this subject myself and would love to discuss some more!

apathy maybe
26th October 2006, 10:37
How did the stateless, classless, primitive society develop into the so-called slave society? When did it develop? Part of the problem to my mind is the lack of communication and knowledge sharing amongst different groups. There were also a variety of superstitions (because of the lack of knowledge about the world). Superstitions lead naturally to racism ('the other') and if someone is 'other', 'obviously' they are inferior. So what is the best thing to do with inferior's? Slaves.

Another thing, the superstitions gave rise to a 'priest' class (witch doctors etc. fall into this group). These people claimed to be able to mediate with the Gods or protect against them, or whatever. In exchange, they get the best bits of stuff.

And yet another thing, in the various fights (between groups), there rose 'strong men'. These men got the best bits of stuff (before or after the priests if they were around, depending). In exchange they led the fight against the other groups ('cause they were the strongest).


Part of the problem with primitivists, is that they think these problems will not re-arise after you get rid of technology. I disagree.

MrDoom
26th October 2006, 15:26
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2006 06:31 am
If you're interested in old history and societal development like this, the book I would recommend is Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel, its very good, enjoyable, easy to understand, and somewhat materialist. You can read a primer on it that may give you a good picture of what hes talking about on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_Germs_and_Steel but you should read the book anyway. If you have any more questions, please post them, Im pretty interested in this subject myself and would love to discuss some more!
Looks interesting, I'll check it out.


Part of the problem with primitivists, is that they think these problems will not re-arise after you get rid of technology. I disagree.
I never was able to "get" primitvists. <_<