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chebol
24th October 2006, 14:04
"[The workers at Coca Cola Femsa (bottling) plants across Venezuela
have shut the company down across the country - backed by a special
commission of Venezuela's Nation Assembly supportiung their demands -
for the payment of millions owed for social security and pensions. In
fact, the action is not just supported by dseputies, but at least one
deptuy appears to be playing a key organsing role.

Great quote: Great quote: "Coca-Cola-Femsa of Venezuela is surprised
that member of a public institution of the country like the National
Assembly would coordinate this type of act..."

It is worth also noting the threat by one of the union leaders that
while this dispute is currently limited to "economic" demands, he
threatens it could spread to a "political dispute" around the demand
to exproriate all of Coca Cola's factories.

This provides pretty stunning evidence of the dynamic at work through
the interrelationship of growing confidence and radicalisation of the
working people, on the one hand, and the support of the government for
radical pro-worker measures on the other, and that way the two feed
into each other.

Growing attacks by radicalising workers on the rights of the
capitalist class may force the issue of differences within the broad
Chavez camp which are still largely insipent (certianly has the
potential for varying degrees of conflict with an essentially
conservative bureacracy that still dominates much of the state
apparatus and often wears the Chavista "red beret") over how far to
go, but the general trajectory, pushed along by Chavez, is along the
lines of radicalisation.

Regardless, this is a pretty quick answer to the silly, simplistic and
sectarian schema put forward by Socialist Alternative on Venezuela in
their latest magazine. (http://www.sa. org.au/10917. htm)

According to SAlt's schema, the government should be repressing these
protests, not supporting and encouraging them (with a pro-government
national assembly members helping lead them).]

Venezuelan Workers Seize and Blockade Coca-Cola Plants Across the Country
Monday, Oct 23, 2006

By: Steven Mather - Venezuelanalysis. com
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2114

Caracas , October 23, 2006 (Venezuelanalysis. com)— Coca-Cola-Femsa
workers in Venezuela have seized the factories where they work and are
preventing distribution trucks from leaving in a bid to force the
company to pay out agreed-upon compensation to ex-workers. The dispute
started on Sunday at midnight and the workers say they will continue
until their demands are met.

Coca-Cola-Femsa, which is the second biggest soft-drink bottling
company in the world, had been given until the October 18 by a special
commission of the Venezuelan National Assembly to present an offer to
settle the dispute. According to the commission, the company failed to
respond satisfactorily to the demands, which involve anything from
5,500 to 10,000 ex-workers who were either sacked or were dismissed
after suffering accidents. The claims stretch back several years.

The action has the support of at least two National Assembly deputies,
Iris Varela and Marcela Máspero. Varela has called the worker rights
in this case "inalienable and perennial" and urged the company to
respond positively to their demands.

"We have all the plants in the territory occupied and we will not
allow a single truck from Coca-Cola to leave with soft drinks… Now we
will see if they will pay workers what they owe them," Varela said.
Rosa Natera the lawyer representing the workers in the dispute said
that they were owed between 3 and 5 billion bolivars ($1.4-2.3 billion).

A spokesperson for Coca-Cola-Femsa condemned the action and criticised
the support given to it by politicians. At the same time it attempted
to downplay the adverse affects of the blockade, saying all plants
were still in limited operation, "Coca-Cola-Femsa of Venezuela is
surprised that member of a public institution of the country like the
National Assembly would coordinate this type of act and we reject them
as they are totally illegal and unconstitutional. The spokesperson
also said that all of the demands had been previously cleared up by
the country's justice system.

The labor union at the company, Sutracocacola, highlighted another
issue that has brought this action against Coca-Cola. Project Phoenix,
a restructuring project designed by the company, which has in mind the
compulsory redundancies of 650 workers across the country. The union
says those made redundant will not be compensated in line with the
agreement negotiated between them and the company. Speaking from
Ciudad Guyana a union representative said, "For that reason today, not
only in Ciudad Guyana but all around the country, the workers will be
guarding the doors of each of the Coca-Cola plants."

While the sides seem so far apart it seems that the dispute could
easily escalate. The blockade is currently over purely economic
demands but it has the potential, if it is not resolved, to turn into
a political battle for the expropriation of the plants. Varela has
said that if Coca-Cola did not come forward with a solution then the
factories could be expropriated and would produce "Venezuelan soft
drinks instead."

Factory Occupied in the State of Miranda Demand Co-Management

Workers, political activists, and members of the local community
joined forces on Saturday, October 23rd, to occupy an abandoned
textile factory in Marizapa in the state of Miranda.
The factory was abandoned 11 months previously by the owners when it
was 100% operational and the 22 workers were dismissed without notice.
Now, after that time, the equipment and machine are in a "deplorable"
state. However, the workers still want to get the factory going again
and are working with the Ministry of Work in attempt to formulate a
strategy to achieve some form of co-management.

[This might prove to be a very important offensive by a section of
Venezuela's working class - if it ends with a victory of some form,
and the leaders are explicetely raising more than just the victory of
getting Coca Cola to pay the money they owe, possibly as leverage so
Coke realise the stakes here (the quote in the subject line is from a
leader of the workers).

It comes in a context where, despite some move forward in recent
times, the forward motion of workers movement does appear to have
stalled in some areas with the split in the new union federation, UNT,
and partial setbacks in movement for co-management. Of course this
stalling of sorts in one particular sector itself comes in context of
broader moves forward by the revolution, with signficant economic
growth fuelling a huge and seemingly never ending growth in social
spending that directly assist the working people and with important
investments made by the government in a number of fields that are
building up infrastructure and new industries and resulting in
dropping of unemployement to under 10% (a major victory) and rising wages.

That sets the stage for the dramatic intervention by the Coca Cola
workers, in the context for growing radicalsiation of the working
people and growing hopes and expectations.

This quote from the article below really does say it all about the
heroic struggle of Venezuela's working people in taking on forces that
are supposed to be too powerful to confront: "We're showing the world
that no multi-national company can just come here to humiliate
Venezuelan employees."

Long live the Venezuelan revolution!]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6079334.stm"

Severian
24th October 2006, 23:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2006 07:04 am
In fact, the action is not just supported by dseputies, but at least one deptuy appears to be playing a key organsing role.

Great quote: Great quote: "Coca-Cola-Femsa of Venezuela is surprised that member of a public institution of the country like the National Assembly would coordinate this type of act..."ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6079334.stm[/URL]"
Y'know, just because Coca-Cola says something does not automatically make it true.


ut the general trajectory, pushed along by Chavez, is along the
lines of radicalisation.

More accurately, pushed along by workers mass actions like these. That Chavez sometimes eventually grants their demands - certainly creates a more favorable situation for class struggle. It does not make him the leader.


Regardless, this is a pretty quick answer to the silly, simplistic and
sectarian schema put forward by Socialist Alternative on Venezuela in
their latest magazine. (http://www.sa. org.au/10917. htm)

According to SAlt's schema, the government should be repressing these
protests, not supporting and encouraging them (with a pro-government
national assembly members helping lead them).

Would it kill ya to give a working link (http://www.sa.org.au/10917.htm) to something you're criticizing?

"Socialist Alternative" compared Chavez to Allende. There's no reason, under this "schema" to expect Chavez' government to necessarily repress workers' actions. Indeed, it's common to find reformists placing themselves at the head of worker's actions.

Though in fact Chavista governors have repressed working people on occasion....by sending the National Guard to the ALCASA aluminum mill for example (http://www.themilitant.com/2005/6931/693159.html)....Or trying to evict peasants occupying the Vestey ranch (http://www.themilitant.com/2006/7040/704003.html). This reflects the contradictory position of the Chavez left bourgeois nationalist regime, balancing between workers and imperialism.

Nothing Human Is Alien
24th October 2006, 23:49
Yeah, that SA-AU (which has a garbage line itself) article points to something Chavez said: "I don’t believe that we are living in a period of proletarian revolutions. All that must be revised … Are we aiming today for the abolition of private property or a classless society? I don’t think so. But if you are told … you can’t do anything to help the poor, the people who have made this country rich through their labour, then I say, ‘We part company’."

It's important to defend the gains made by workers under the Chavista government, and to defend Venezuela from imperialism; but also to understand the limitations in the current setup.

And the SA's comparison of Chavez to Allende is not all that far off as comrade Chebol would have one believe.

As the Manifesto of the Free People's Movement (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?12#IV) states, "As mentioned previously, history shows us that the class that controls the means of production controls the political and economic power, and is not willing to relinquish that power without a life-or-death struggle. In other words, in order for any real change to occur, revolutionary change is necessary. Bourgeois elections can provide no real change, for it is the capitalist system, not any particular representative, which operates in direct opposition to the interests of the working class and its allies.

"While we support all attempts to better the conditions of the exploited masses, we reject the ability of electoral politics or reform to create any real and lasting change. Historical events, such as the election, and subsequent overthrow of Salvador Allende in Chile support our position.

"Only a genuine socialist revolution, in which the exploited masses (under the leadership of the working class) take control of the means of production and create a socialist state, can pave the way for the transition from class-divided capitalist society to a classless – and thus free, just, and equal – society."

Louis Pio
25th October 2006, 01:39
Quite agree with the posts made here.
The point is as I see it is that socialism in Venezuela, will (if not defeated) come with or without Chavez. I don't understand why so many sects only look at Chavez instead of looking at the process in Venezuelan society. This is however their loss, and some people can't even recognise a revolutionary situation when it hit's them full force right in the face.
The coca cola occupation is a part of the a long line of struggle in Venezuela, class struggle is really heating up now and the polarisation of society is growing, as in all revolutionary situations. This is exactly why the movement of occupid factories and factories under workers control (cogestion) is so important. A positive aspect is how it has moved beyound Venezuela and formed links with factories and movements in for example Brazil - real proletarian internationalism in pracsis!

Btw on the parliamentarian aspect I just wanna add, that any group calling for abstention in the presidential elections have no furture whatsoever in Venezuela. I've seen some of the tiny (mostly european and american) groupings play with that idea. I guess the don't wanna get "tainted" by supporting a candidate not totally in line with their program. Their line however clearly shows no practical involvement in the venezuelan struggle. Support for Chavez - yes, criticism of him and the politics - of course.
IMT's position on the elections (http://www.marxist.com/venezuelan-presidential-elections-revolution050906.htm)

Nothing Human Is Alien
25th October 2006, 02:10
I've seen some of the tiny (mostly european and american) groupings play with that idea.

Umm.. how about the (at one time large) Sendero Luminoso in Peru? Or the NPA in the Philippines? Or the CPN(M) in Nepal? They've "played with that idea" too.

Louis Pio
25th October 2006, 02:21
yeah, I was however talking about Venezuela.
Without going into the countries you mentioned I just wanna say that the attitude to the parliament/presidency is always decided by the actual situation.
What I was refering to is the groups who sit in safety in USA or Europe and try to direct the venezuelan workers and peasants from the sidelines. Have nothing but utter contempt for these r-r-r-revolutionaries.

Louis Pio
25th October 2006, 02:27
Btw just talked with a venezuelan comrade, seems the workers from the factory will have a demonstration tomorrow. It's not 100% decided though.

Comrade Kurtz
25th October 2006, 03:21
Coca Cola needs to be investigated thoroughly by the U.N. and shut down for what they have done in Columbia and Guatemala. I love the product so much but as of late I can almost taste the blood of those trade union leaders in my soda. I need to go cold turkey but it's so good. Still, they need to be shut down.

Guerrilla22
25th October 2006, 17:28
I wonder what the chances are that Coca Cola will fly in mercenaries to break up the strikes.

Severian
26th October 2006, 00:56
Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2006 07:21 pm
What I was refering to is the groups who sit in safety in USA or Europe and try to direct the venezuelan workers and peasants from the sidelines.
Aren't you doing the same thing? Only you're telling 'em to vote for Chavez, if I understand your implication right, while somebody else is telling 'em not to.

The issue in voting for Chavez, I might comment, isn't simply whether he has exactly the right line. It's what class he represents. The political independence of the working class is kinda important; especially if one accepts that Venezuela is in a revolutionary situation as you say.

Severian
26th October 2006, 01:11
Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 24, 2006 07:10 pm

I've seen some of the tiny (mostly european and american) groupings play with that idea.

Umm.. how about the (at one time large) Sendero Luminoso in Peru? Or the NPA in the Philippines? Or the CPN(M) in Nepal? They've "played with that idea" too.
You're holding up Sendero and the CPN(Maoist) as positive examples?

Nothing Human Is Alien
26th October 2006, 01:21
I'm very critical of them; but I don't rule them out outright because they follow the wrong "ism".

But that wasn't my point. I thought he was saying that only tiny European and U.S.ian groups rejected bourgeois elections; so I countered that with groups that were neither tiny nor European or U.S.ian that rejected it.

LoneRed
26th October 2006, 02:33
it should also be noted if it hasnt been already, that Chavez is in support of these workers actions, just fyi, make of it what you will

shadowed by the secret police
26th October 2006, 21:09
interesting ... I love direct action against ruthless corporations.

Louis Pio
26th October 2006, 21:53
Aren't you doing the same thing? Only you're telling 'em to vote for Chavez, if I understand your implication right, while somebody else is telling 'em not to.


Well me personally yes, gotta work u know. Plus we have important political struggles in Denmark too. But as a group no, IMT is doing some heavy work in Venezuela especially concerning the occupied factories movement. Have alot of personal friends whose personal security is in danger if reaction triumphs.


The issue in voting for Chavez, I might comment, isn't simply whether he has exactly the right line. It's what class he represents. The political independence of the working class is kinda important; especially if one accepts that Venezuela is in a revolutionary situation as you say.


Quite true. The question of Chavez is however also his role up untill now which is why he is still so popular. Calling for another candidate or abstention will be seen as an outright betrayal and in the barrios you will surely get beat up, which is also why none of the groups calling for that would say it out open in the barrios.
The political independence of the working class is exactly very important, and the work for that is done in the bolivarian movement, not outside of it.

rouchambeau
27th October 2006, 02:42
"The pickets have blocked lorries from transporting Coca-Cola from the plants, and shortages of Coca-Cola have now been reported across the country. The secretary general from the bottler's union (representing current employees) has vowed to mobilise his members to break the strike and return to work, saying "If some parliamentarians do not show up to guarantee our position, then we will go to our workplaces across the country, breaking whatever kind of illegal blockade is going on".

http://libcom.org/news/workers-blockade-co...-plant-26102006 (http://libcom.org/news/workers-blockade-coca-cola-bottling-plant-26102006)

Typical. Unions are always fucking things up during a time of crisis.

Louis Pio
27th October 2006, 02:47
the bottlers union are most likely part of the old anti-chavez tradeuniongroup (which I kinda forgot the name of, getting old I guess)

metalero
27th October 2006, 04:35
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2006 08:47 pm
the bottlers union are most likely part of the old anti-chavez tradeuniongroup (which I kinda forgot the name of, getting old I guess)
you mean the CTV, the pro-Boss and anti working class union federation led by an oil labor aristrocracy and their capitalist masters. In that sense, I think the working class conscience has grown a lot in Venezuela creating a strong working class union UNT. This is certainly one of the biggest achievements that could help to step up the revolutionary process.

Louis Pio
27th October 2006, 13:28
Indeed, the formation of the UNT is a huge step, despite UNT's "child diseases" that we saw on their congress.

Severian
28th October 2006, 00:02
Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 25, 2006 06:21 pm
I'm very critical of them; but I don't rule them out outright because they follow the wrong "ism".
You seemed to be saying the Senderistas' electoral abstention was a point in favor of electoral abstention.

And actually, you're supporting them because they claim allegiance to the right "ism" - "communism". And despite their violence against the working-class movement. A triumph of ideological labels over class solidarity.

Severian
28th October 2006, 01:47
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2006 02:53 pm

Aren't you doing the same thing? Only you're telling 'em to vote for Chavez, if I understand your implication right, while somebody else is telling 'em not to.


Well me personally yes, gotta work u know. Plus we have important political struggles in Denmark too. But as a group no, IMT is doing some heavy work in Venezuela especially concerning the occupied factories movement. Have alot of personal friends whose personal security is in danger if reaction triumphs.
Ah. So your organization claims better credentials for telling people in Venezuela what to do. (But c'mon, it's still basically a British organization doing so, even if it's sent some people to Venezuela.) Plus some people in Venezuela agree with you - heck, a lot of working people vote for Chavez.

'Course, apparently a lot of working people in Venezuela didn't vote in the last legislative elections....so it's not as if everyone there agrees with you, actually.


the bottlers union are most likely part of the old anti-chavez tradeuniongroup (which I kinda forgot the name of, getting old I guess)

Apparently not part of the CTV. Apparently he's part of the opposition within the UNT. (http://www.aporrea.org/trabajadores/n85552.html) (machine translation to English (http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.aporrea.org/trabajadores/n85552.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Jos%25C3%25A9%2BC%25C3%25A1rdena s,%2BSecretario%2BGeneral%2Bdel%2BSindicato%2Bde%2 Bla%2BCoca-Cola%2Ben%2BValencia%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3 DG%26as_qdr%3Dall))

That opposition, while supporting Chavez, wants to maintain some independence from the government. (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1775) It also wants an election for UNT leadership, which Maspero and other dependent supporters of Chavez have blocked.

I do wonder if Cardenas was misquoted in the one article, since elsewhere he's quoted as endorsing the protests but asking that those leading 'em coordinate with the unions representing current workers.

Here (http://colombia.indymedia.org/news/2006/10/51111.php) (translation (http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://colombia.indymedia.org/news/2006/10/51111.php&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Jos%25C3%25A9%2BC%25C3%25A1rdena s,%2BSecretario%2BGeneral%2Bdel%2BSindicato%2Bde%2 Bla%2BCoca-Cola%2Ben%2BValencia%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3 DG%26as_qdr%3Dall))
That also seems to be his attitude in the interview linked earlier.

Meanwhile, the blockade has been lifted, (http://english.eluniversal.com/2006/10/27/en_eco_art_27A796571.shtml) with an agreement that the courts will decide the issues. Kinda recalls Cardenas' points (in the interview) about the lawyers associated with these parliamentary deputies, and their demagogic use of the fired workers.

You said earlier:

I don't understand why so many sects only look at Chavez instead of looking at the process in Venezuelan society.

Well, what are you doing? You automatically assume that anyone who doesn't line up perfectly with the Chavista deputies must be CTV, pro-imperialist.

If you're going to "look at the process in Venezuelan society", first you have to insist on an accurate description of events. Unlike the first article in this thread.

Then you have to look for the real mass movement. You have to side with the workers first, including when they try to push Chavez further, including when they oppose some actions by Chavez.

You seem to do the opposite: side with Chavez first. When the two don't perfectly line up.....when, in the future, they may diverge further....which side are you on?

Louis Pio
30th October 2006, 20:03
Ah. So your organization claims better credentials for telling people in Venezuela what to do. (But c'mon, it's still basically a British organization doing so, even if it's sent some people to Venezuela.) Plus some people in Venezuela agree with you - heck, a lot of working people vote for Chavez.


Hmm basically I don't see anything wrong with organising on a international level and no it's not a british organisation since politics is always decided by worldcongresses, since as they should be they are the highest authority. Indeed alot vote for Chavez but as I hope you agree with the point must be to build independent working class organisation and a strong socialist current within the movement. I think the setting up of the front of occupied factories FRETECO is a step forward
A few links on the subject: National Gathering of Occupied Factories in Venezuela (http://www.marxist.com/occupied-factories-venezuela171006-2.htm)
And the site of FRETECO in spanish FRETECO (http://freteco.elmilitante.org/)

In the legislative elections is correct that alot of people didn't vote. As far as people from Venezuela told me it's because most people correctly view the parliament as quite corrupted. There's alot of black sheep on the bolivarian slate, old carreists who changed allegiance etc.

The article from Venezuelanalysis is quite good, I read it before and agree with the points made. Let's hope the next congress of UNT won't be so big a farce as the last. Especially the lack of elections is a unprecedented farce.


Well, what are you doing? You automatically assume that anyone who doesn't line up perfectly with the Chavista deputies must be CTV, pro-imperialist.


Nope not at all, as I explained alot of the "chavista" deputies are crooks.
My point was more directed towards some groups who mostly say "denounce Chavez" and the old phrase "we must build a workersparty" without having any other road than declaring that party and then they think it must be it. The building of a independent workers party is a bit more complex than that. There's some discussion on that in the sticky on Venezuela. Also I feel some of these groups focus mostly on Chavez and not on the processes, maybe it came out wrong earlier...


Then you have to look for the real mass movement. You have to side with the workers first, including when they try to push Chavez further, including when they oppose some actions by Chavez.

You seem to do the opposite: side with Chavez first. When the two don't perfectly line up.....when, in the future, they may diverge further....which side are you on?

No, most certainly not. I agree siding with the workers first and build independent working class representation in Venezuela, as IMT is doing at the moment instead of just talking about it. As i said in my earlier post, Chavez may go with the working class further or maybe not. Now none of us can judge that now, although some people seem to think they can. So my point is the most pressing point now is not to denounce Chavez all the time but build the independent working class representation on the shop floor, you will actually never build that representation if your first premis is a denounciation of Chavez, sorta the point I tried to make. (and just to make clear am not saying that's what you are doing, I think your position on Venezuela is pretty good)

Severian
30th October 2006, 21:44
Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 02:03 pm
Hmm basically I don't see anything wrong with organising on a international level and no it's not a british organisation since politics is always decided by worldcongresses, since as they should be they are the highest authority.
I'd guess the British section tends to have a decisive influence in the world organization. Regardless, having a world congress decide tactics is not such a brilliant idea. Since tactics depend on the concrete situation on the ground.

Just a tentative thought on the Venezuelan elections, though: you're probably right about abstention, since the pro-imperialist opposition will likely be calling for an election boycott as well.

But doesn't that boycott create another opportunity - for an independent working-class campaign? There's no worry about objectively helping the pro-imperialist opposition by taking votes from Chavez, if his electoral victory is virtually certain. And one opposes their boycott, sides with the Chavez government against it, merely by participating in the elections.



Well, what are you doing? You automatically assume that anyone who doesn't line up perfectly with the Chavista deputies must be CTV, pro-imperialist.
Nope not at all, as I explained alot of the "chavista" deputies are crooks.
My point was more directed towards some groups who mostly say "denounce Chavez" and the old phrase "we must build a workersparty" without having any other road than declaring that party and then they think it must be it

I was referring to the assumption that Cardenas must be CTV.


I agree siding with the workers first and build independent working class representation in Venezuela, as IMT is doing at the moment instead of just talking about it.

Glad to hear it.

Louis Pio
30th October 2006, 22:16
Regardless, having a world congress decide tactics is not such a brilliant idea. Since tactics depend on the concrete situation on the ground.


Well decide the overall political line, how to work. Not the day to day tactic, if this or that option is correct and so on.


But doesn't that boycott create another opportunity - for an independent working-class campaign? There's no worry about objectively helping the pro-imperialist opposition by taking votes from Chavez, if his electoral victory is virtually certain. And one opposes their boycott, sides with the Chavez government against it, merely by participating in the elections.


I think even calling for abstention would be incorrect. Since that position would alienate you from the workers. And make it impossible to build any independent working class force and a strong revolutionary current.
The position we voted on this year can be found here Venezuelan presedential elections: Vote for Chavez, carry the revolution out to the end (http://www.marxist.com/venezuelan-presidential-elections-revolution050906.htm)


I was referring to the assumption that Cardenas must be CTV.


I was referring to the post saying that the bottlers union was against the strike, now I can't find that post so either it's been edited or im just imagining things.

Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg
30th October 2006, 22:21
hugo chavez commie army!!!!! hasta la victoria siempre.show bush nd his neo-conz wot the people want