Mexico says no to the fence, its built ne ways

[Political_Chucky]

Mexico Says No To Fence (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mexico_us_border_fence)

According to this article, Mexico was urging the U.S. to veto the fence bill, but obviously did not work since Bush put it into effect already a few days ago. So what is everyones take on this? Do you believe the fence will do any good? Do you believe we should have open borders? And does Mexico have a right to a say so in the dispute?

I believe that the fence will work against illegal immigrants, but I highly disregard it as a solution. This is like putting newspaper over spilled milk. Its only covering up the real problem.

[RED VICTORY]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2006 01:49 am
Mexico Says No To Fence (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mexico_us_border_fence)

This is like putting newspaper over spilled milk. Its only covering up the real problem.
You are right. The fence project is a band aid. The real solution lies in cracking down on those capitalists hiring illegals to exploit them for financial gain. And I mean putting in place real consequences not this compromise with big business crap.
I really believe in internationalism and building solidarity with the working class the world over and it is too bad that people have to leave their homeland to find employment. Immigration is not bad. Illegal immigration is dangerous though and while we must remember that those who come to the U.S. are working class people with whom we need to build solidarity with, We must put our attention on our national struggle for socialism first to be a better world socialist player.

[Tatarin]

Do you believe the fence will do any good?

It will certainly make it somewhat harder for Mexicans to get into the US, but other means will open up. Just take a look on Europe, it has a damn ocean between it and Africa, yet, that hasn't stopped thousands of Africans getting into Europe.

The thing is - as long as employers are willing to employ people with basically no rights, they will do it. It's being done in almost every part of the world.

Besides, what is this "fence"? Can a person cut through it? Will it be deadly to anyone who toutches it? Is it made out of stone, steel or wood?

But in the end, it will only be a big waste of tax money - money which instead could have gone to poor people, public schools etc.


Do you believe we should have open borders?

Of course. If you are on the left, then you support NO borders - country, state, county and every else of them. Borders are means for the overclass, they divide workers - make them think of "nationality" and "property", of their "race" and in the end, hate against all others.

But take a look at the rich and the powerful. Do they have borders when they do business? Do they respect countries' laws and regulations, even those the people there have agreed on?


And does Mexico have a right to a say so in the dispute?

Mexico can say whatever they like. The US is the world's sole standing superpower, and it can do whatever it wants. That's one of the world's greatest concerns right now.


I believe that the fence will work against illegal immigrants, but I highly disregard it as a solution.

There are no people who are "illegal". The US has not existed forever. They once conquered the land they now "own". People who go into the US are not business owners or corporate cabals, they're ordinary workers who want to make money to feed their families, to live a normal and secure life.

They don't "steal" your jobs, they can't get a job if the employer does not give it to them. Then why does the employer "break the law" and do so anyway? Because he wants to make as much money as possible.

Put yourself in the employer's position and ask yourself:

Would you employ a person who craves 10,000$ a month, who needs payed vacations, respect, insurance and all, and who can (and probably will) go to the labour union to crave even more rights and leisure - or a person who you can give 10$ a week, who can't go to any union at all (because he will be sent back home), who can be abused and made to work overtime in any dangerous workplace you please?

That is the one thing that can't be changed, because it is a part of capitalism.

[Tatarin]

We must put our attention on our national struggle for socialism first to be a better world socialist player.

Remember what happened during the previous century. If you make revolution in one country, another will make all of it's policies "anti-communist". Revolution, when it happens next time, can't happen in one country. This time it has to happen worldwide.

[RED VICTORY]

Okay, I can definitely agree with that idea Comrade. I also agree with what you said about borders prompting nationalist and racist ideas. I guess the big difference is that our communications technology is much more advanced than it was much of the last century. Like you and I can discuss revolution via this discussion board and such. This great achievement of communication technology hopefully can help us to build working class solidarity so our dream of liberation through revolution can be realized. Thanks for the correction.

[Tekun]

Like comrade Tat mentioned, borders were created by capitalists in order to divide and create strife amongst the working class
And therefore, all radical leftists should be opposed to such divisions
I think the recent attacks against undocumented immigrants by middle and working class Americans proves the effectiveness of borders in creating interclass hostility
The working class should be universal and have no borders
Contrary to what they preach, "terrorists" have and will problably never enter the US illegally
The risks are too high for both "terrorists" and those who smuggle them in
Don't buy into the lie that Washington and the NeoCons propogate

The Mexican gov can cry and moan all they want, thing is...its pretty much controlled by Washington
Its a puppet democracy down there, Fox-Calderon-all those guys are Washington drones


Immigration will come to an end as soon as capitalism is abolished
But in the meantime, as members of the working class, we should work with our immigrant brothers and sisters to form unity and to improve the treatment for all workers regardless of their immigration status