Gradualist Fool
18th October 2006, 15:10
It isn't above the U.S. government to start up websites or groups in order to pre-emptively find anti-government and revolutionaries in order to catch them, beforehand. They did it in the 60's and 70's, even inventing the holiday of Kwanzaa, in order to try to discredit the black nationalist movement.
First, there's the Smith Act (http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/comm/free_speech/smithactof1940.html), still legally binding and part of U.S. law, though it hasn't been invoked in years:
The Alien Registration Act of 1940, usually called the Smith Act because the antisedition section was authored by Representative Howard W. Smith of Virginia, was adopted at 54 Statutes at Large 670-671 (1940). The Act has been amended several times and can now be found at 18 U.S. Code § 2385 (2000).
§ 2385. Advocating Overthrow of Government.
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof--
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
But what is invoked and is legally binding is the definition of "terrorist," under the PATRIOT Act. Sec. 411, of the PATRIOT Act, partially defines a terrorist group as:
a political, social or other similar group whose public endorsement of acts of terrorist activity the Secretary of State has determined undermines United States efforts to reduce or eliminate terrorist activities
Aside from the Smith Act, there are certainly plenty of provisions in the PATRIOT Act to allow for the mere "endorsement," of overthrowing the U.S. government to be considered illegal, especially for non-citizens.
After all, there was the recent case where a 14-year-old girl was questioned by Secret Service agents for posting a picture of Bush with the word, "DIE," on it, on MySpace.
What I'm getting at is this: Technically, this site is illegal. The U.S. government controls the internet, but even if they didn't, they have secret contracts with the telecommunications giants in order to intercept and even restrict activity over the internet.
Why would they allow this site to exist if they weren't simply using it to track people? How does anyone here even know that the U.S. government themselves aren't the ones controlling this site?
First, there's the Smith Act (http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/comm/free_speech/smithactof1940.html), still legally binding and part of U.S. law, though it hasn't been invoked in years:
The Alien Registration Act of 1940, usually called the Smith Act because the antisedition section was authored by Representative Howard W. Smith of Virginia, was adopted at 54 Statutes at Large 670-671 (1940). The Act has been amended several times and can now be found at 18 U.S. Code § 2385 (2000).
§ 2385. Advocating Overthrow of Government.
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof--
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
But what is invoked and is legally binding is the definition of "terrorist," under the PATRIOT Act. Sec. 411, of the PATRIOT Act, partially defines a terrorist group as:
a political, social or other similar group whose public endorsement of acts of terrorist activity the Secretary of State has determined undermines United States efforts to reduce or eliminate terrorist activities
Aside from the Smith Act, there are certainly plenty of provisions in the PATRIOT Act to allow for the mere "endorsement," of overthrowing the U.S. government to be considered illegal, especially for non-citizens.
After all, there was the recent case where a 14-year-old girl was questioned by Secret Service agents for posting a picture of Bush with the word, "DIE," on it, on MySpace.
What I'm getting at is this: Technically, this site is illegal. The U.S. government controls the internet, but even if they didn't, they have secret contracts with the telecommunications giants in order to intercept and even restrict activity over the internet.
Why would they allow this site to exist if they weren't simply using it to track people? How does anyone here even know that the U.S. government themselves aren't the ones controlling this site?