USSR

[blueeyedboy]

First things first, why did the USSR collapse. I think it was because of greed and the politicians not actually helping the workers at all. Also, it was because of the misinterpretation of Marx's original ideas, so the dictatorship actually stayed that way and didn't dissolve into communism as was orignally intended.

Secondly, what actual ideology was the USSR. I've heard state-socialist thrown around a lot on these forums, but I don't understand because isn't socialism a state thing anyway. Why not just call it Socialism?

Any opinions on these two issues?

[BreadBros]

"State socialism" is usually a reference to the fact that the means of production are owned by the State instead of by the workers. Under "Socialism" the workers would own the means of production through workers councils (or 'Soviets'), unions, etc. "State socialism" is referring to the fact that beauracrats ran the economy in the name of the workers instead of direct worker self-management.

As for what the USSR was, you'll find a bunch of different opinions depending on whom you are asking. Some like Tony Cliff say "state capitalist" which means that capitalism, rooted in wages and surplus value, but with the state as the ruling class instead of the bourgeoisie. Trotsky himself said it was a "degenerated worker's state" meaning that the workers had overthrown the bourgeoisie but the state entity had "degenerated" because beauracrats had taken political control away from worker's entities. Those are just two of the main theories. Basically most theories run along the lines of:
1. The USSR was run by beauracrats, whether by folly or by Leninist structure, "degenerating" the state
2. After a certain point (usually after Lenin's death, or Stalin's death), the USSR abandoned the path towards socialism totally and basically became a capitalist economy, with alteration for the role of the state
3. Stalin/Stalinists ruined it through their abandonment of internationalism and the institution of state purges
4. The Russian Revolution was a bourgeois revolution and the USSR was actually a proto-capitalist state
And a bunch more and a bunch of variants.

As to why the USSR collapsed, that is the source of much, much discussion and contention here and to be honest, Im not sure I can give you the answer. Ultimately the state went bankrupt and went belly up. Why it did so is up for debate. The "answer" is likely some combination of the huge spending the state undertook in the space and arms races, with the fact that the USSR had a difficult time accumulating capital and establishing price decisions because of its structures.

[Whitten]

First things first, why did the USSR collapse. I think it was because of greed and the politicians not actually helping the workers at all.

Yes, it was the result of a stagnating beurocracy, reformist policies in the later era, and corrupt (and also incompetant) politicians.


Also, it was because of the misinterpretation of Marx's original ideas, so the dictatorship actually stayed that way and didn't dissolve into communism as was orignally intended.

I disagree here, the USSR never reached the stage necessary for Communism. That and I personally believe that a world dictatorship of the proletariat is necessary before the final transition to communism.


Secondly, what actual ideology was the USSR. I've heard state-socialist thrown around a lot on these forums, but I don't understand because isn't socialism a state thing anyway. Why not just call it Socialism?

The ideology changed over time. Under Lenin it was Marxism as interpreted by lenin (nowadays called marxism-leninism or just leninism), under Stalin it continued those ideas but adopted the concept of "socialism in one country" based on the idea of bilding a socialist super power first before trying to export the revolution en masse, During both these periods the government was largely crippled by beurocrats, and a fine line between small-group dictatorship and corrupt beurocracy was always being fought. Kruschev started extensive reforms which essentially made the USSR state-capitalist, and the various other leaders slayed back and fourth from there.

Socialism isnt necesarily a "state thing", many socialists oppose all forms of state completly. "State-scoialism" isnt really a political ideology as it its a (usually derogatory) term thrown around by some leftist groups.

[Leo]

why did the USSR collapse

It didn't really.

There was a coup d'etat, and a name change. Yet, I don't think Russia or Ukraine or other countries there sank deep down the ocean.


Secondly, what actual ideology was the USSR. I've heard state-socialist thrown around a lot on these forums, but I don't understand because isn't socialism a state thing anyway. Why not just call it Socialism?

Because it was developing capitalism?

[Lamanov]

DJ-TC saves the day (again with a link)! ;)

Recommended: AUFHEBEN (http://www.geocities.com/aufheben2)

<_< Hm.. the page is down at the moment, so go there when it opens and find a series of articles in 4 parts in title What was the USSR? - Towards a theory of Deformation of Value under State Capitalism.