Fighting back against India's

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Low Caste Hindus converting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6050408.stm)

This is quite cool.

The "untouchables" are a group of people who are born into the lowest caste group.

The people from higher Castes will not even look at them and the "untouchables" must do all the really crappy jobs and i think cant do things like get high rank in the military or police.

Its all pretty wierd and horrible.

But as the link says, lots of the lowest caste are converting to new religion. So maybe it will stop soon :)

[Janus]

I don't know about Buddhism but I know that many Indians have already converted to Christianity. There are the older Syrian Christians and the Christians who were converted when the British came.

These people are technically outside the caste system yet many of the Untouchables who converted during British colonialism were extremely dissappointed when they were still forced to go to separate churches,etc. despite their status "change". So, there is still a caste system in the Indian churches themselves as the upper class priests and members discriminate against the lower castes.

[Tungsten]

WTF? This isn't news. Low caste hindus have been doing this for decades, if not centuries.

[Janus]

WTF? This isn't news.
It is a current issue in that more and more lower caste members are now doing it and creating a revival of Buddhism.

[which doctor]

This is fighting one reactionary, oppressive system by switching to another reactionary, oppressive system.

[Janus]

This is fighting one reactionary, oppressive system by switching to another reactionary, oppressive system.
Yes, but for the former, there is simply no advancement opportunities at all due to the active social discrimination that goes along with it. For them, it is the only way to achieve upward mobility.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

This is fighting one reactionary, oppressive system by switching to another reactionary, oppressive system.

Yes it is, but hinduism is an important part of indian culture. It also keeps people think that the Caste system is Legitimate. Of loads of indians converted to christianity then they will likely not see the caste system as legitimate and indians will change their own culture internally.

[Severian]

While Hinduism is especially connected to the caste system, most of the other religions in India have made some kind of accomodation to it.

Caste remains an issue in majority-Muslim Pakistan and Banglash, for example.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 02:18 AM
This is fighting one reactionary, oppressive system by switching to another reactionary, oppressive system.
It's a way forward.

[Darth Revan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 02:18 AM
This is fighting one reactionary, oppressive system by switching to another reactionary, oppressive system.
Its an improvement next to Hinduism and i fail to see how Buddhism is an oppressive system they weren't any holy wars because of Buddhism unlike other religions and its isn't much of a religion but a philosophy

[Janus]

and its isn't much of a religion but a philosophy
There is a significant different between Western Buddhism, which is practiced as more of a philosophy, and Eastern Buddhism which was more or less a religion that became integrated with the government and society particularly in Tibet.

[Vargha Poralli]

caste system in Hinduism differs fromn state to state.for example in southern states oppression of dalits is not as much as in northern states. it is assumed that because of south's distinctive culture from the north which has been under various invasions and foreign rules which turned the caste Hindu's to somewhat extremely reactionary.south in the mean while came early under the British rule and benefited greatly cos of it. the southern part is virtually more developed albeit corrupt politicians than the north because of this fact.

the way i see it Buddhism is some what more violent which is against teachings of Buddha himself as it is evident in srilanka.

moreover these conversion of dalits has beeen used by hindu fundamentalist organiosations to carry out violence against other religios minority groups. more over it had alienated the growth of rational thought on more educated forward cates and other backward caste hindus to be hostile to communism and socilaism.

[manic expression]

Caste in India is pretty complicated. Let me add my two cents.

In Vedic India and before the Guptas, where Hinduism has its roots, caste did not exist. People would learn a trade and work it, they would not be born into it at all. They practiced Hinduism, but the caste system wasn't there, so I find it unreasonable to connect the two.

"Caste" developed quite recently. On the whole, it is basically a family being associated with a certain trade. This concept has, in practice, waxed and waned over the centuries. When Indians started to work with the British, caste relaxed because people opened to foreigners (called "mcleccas" or something like that...I probably butchered the spelling). Before that, it was extremely rigid, but it wasn't always that way. As g.ram said, the caste system was affected by various influences such as foreign invasions and differed from region to region. Remember that India is a big place, and what happens in Rajasthan doesn't necessarily happen in Tamil Nadu, which doesn't necessarily happen in Gujarat and so on and so forth.

Caste oppression, which is basically one group screwing over another, is another part of all this. One would reasonably assume that the people on the "top" of the caste system (Brahmins, Kyshatrias) would be the most powerful. That is not always the case. In many instances, Brahmins are disenfranchised and screwed over as much as Dalits. One caste, regardless of how "high" they are, gets power and uses it to oppress others. To me, this is important because it doesn't mean that the system is fixed or concrete, which goes unrecognized by western observers. By the way, this happens less and less and usually happens in rural areas with little education and great poverty. Also, you mostly see caste abuse when there are little resources or a real problem in the area, as could be seen in parts of India after the tsunami, but the government has been pretty good at stepping in during those situations.

By the way, conversion often does nothing to change a person's societal position. Upper-caste Muslims and Christians treat lower-caste Muslims and Christians the same way. This leads me to believe that caste is a societal construct, not a religious one at all. The way to make improvement is to make society more equitable and fair, which is what has happened in Kerala (and West Bengal, if I'm not mistaken). Religion has far less to do with it than most think.

It's hard to understand (I can't say I do), but those are some things to consider. Plus, g.ram said a lot of things better than I did.