Log in

View Full Version : For those who do not believe in exploitation



Demogorgon
13th October 2006, 10:25
Long but very much worth reading

http://homepages.luc.edu/~dschwei/demdialectic.htm

t_wolves_fan
13th October 2006, 17:00
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 07:26 AM
Long but very much worth reading

http://homepages.luc.edu/~dschwei/demdialectic.htm
Interesting but nothing new.

The key phrase is this:


An amazing feat, the neoclassical solution, but unfortunately inadequate to the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem, recall, is normative.

Normative = subjective. Basically, marxists don't like the free market, neoclassical approach because they think it's unfair.

Then there's this:


If a person works x hours to produce goods or services consumed by others, then she should receive in return goods and services that it took others x hours to produce.

As the author notes, this would be infeasible in practice. How do we track which goods and services others consume that would require them to repay that consumption with their own production? If worker A puts in 8 hours at the furniture collective but nobody from the wheat collective consumes his furniture, how is he to be rewarded with 8 hours worth of wheat?

Finally the author's main premise is that capitalists and landowners are not engaged in any productive activity. He tries to split capitalists and landowners apart from entrepreneurs. This is absurd - they are one and the same. Someone has to be an entrepreneur to see the value in the land, and so to take the risk to make the purchase. The author simply dismisses risk as a factor, which is an act of cognitive dissonance. A capitalist/entrepreneur takes the risk that the public wants to consume the good he is going to pay people to produce. Labor produces things which the public may or may not want - how can we honestly claim that labor should be rewarded for the sake of being labor even if they produce X number of goods that nobody wants? This is the key reason a communist economy would be highly inefficient.

Krypto-Communist
14th October 2006, 19:14
so to take the risk to make the purchase. The author simply dismisses risk as a factor, which is an act of cognitive dissonance.

I'm sick of hearing that word! Risk!

If a millionaire (or close to being one) wants to make a "risky investment" in a company or land or whatever...and the initial investment is only over $200,000...which is only a fraction of his total net worth, then where's the risk involved?


This is the key reason a communist economy would be highly inefficient.

I've read somewhere that 90% of the products that are being produced right know don't even make it to the store shelves.

Talk about ineffeciency!

What else could we have done with those resources besides to make even more money for some already wealthy investors?

colonelguppy
16th October 2006, 01:52
If a millionaire (or close to being one) wants to make a "risky investment" in a company or land or whatever...and the initial investment is only over $200,000...which is only a fraction of his total net worth, then where's the risk involved?

losing $200,000.


I've read somewhere that 90% of the products that are being produced right know don't even make it to the store shelves.

i read this thing somewhere that said i had alot of thetans in my soul and they were keeping me from suceeding.

Jazzratt
16th October 2006, 01:56
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 10:53 PM

If a millionaire (or close to being one) wants to make a "risky investment" in a company or land or whatever...and the initial investment is only over $200,000...which is only a fraction of his total net worth, then where's the risk involved?

losing $200,000.
For a millionaire? Fuck all.

To your average prole? Fuck loads.

Risk? What do the leeches know of risk?




I've read somewhere that 90% of the products that are being produced right know don't even make it to the store shelves.

i read this thing somewhere that said i had alot of thetans in my soul and they were keeping me from suceeding. Good point, I would have liked them to have used a decent source raher than 'I read somewhere'.

colonelguppy
16th October 2006, 02:14
Originally posted by Jazzratt+Oct 15 2006, 05:57 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Oct 15 2006, 05:57 PM)
[email protected] 15 2006, 10:53 PM

If a millionaire (or close to being one) wants to make a "risky investment" in a company or land or whatever...and the initial investment is only over $200,000...which is only a fraction of his total net worth, then where's the risk involved?

losing $200,000.
For a millionaire? Fuck all.

To your average prole? Fuck loads.

Risk? What do the leeches know of risk? [/b]
losing a fifth of your income isn't significant?

Jazzratt
16th October 2006, 02:17
Originally posted by colonelguppy+Oct 15 2006, 11:15 PM--> (colonelguppy @ Oct 15 2006, 11:15 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 05:57 PM

[email protected] 15 2006, 10:53 PM

If a millionaire (or close to being one) wants to make a "risky investment" in a company or land or whatever...and the initial investment is only over $200,000...which is only a fraction of his total net worth, then where's the risk involved?

losing $200,000.
For a millionaire? Fuck all.

To your average prole? Fuck loads.

Risk? What do the leeches know of risk?
losing a fifth of your income isn't significant? [/b]
Relative to losing a good 7/8ths, no not really.

colonelguppy
16th October 2006, 02:31
relativity has nothing to do with this, risk is judged subjectively