the word "cracker"

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 10 2006, 06:36 PM
yes this crackerass honkey (me) is one crackerass fan of dead prez!
I assumed you were black...

[Pirate Utopian]

nope im a cracker, the fist i just found online

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Permanent Revolution+Oct 11 2006, 05:57 AM--> (Permanent Revolution @ Oct 11 2006, 05:57 AM)
Originally posted by Big [email protected] 10 2006, 06:36 PM
yes this crackerass honkey (me) is one crackerass fan of dead prez!
I assumed you were black... [/b]
Guess that learned you then didn't it? ;)

non-Black people like hip-hop :o



Tekun
Great video, though Im not feelin the whole "cracker this, cracker that"

Why? The term cracker refers to white slaver drivers, the people cracking whips, it's directed at white racists.

[Tekun]

Why? The term cracker refers to white slaver drivers, the people cracking whips, it's directed at white racists.

In this video it prolly does,...but therez other songs in which they use it towards normal everyday white ppl
That's not cool

If conscious white rappers used ni**er towards the black bourgeoisie, we'd all get pissed
Same goes for cracker

I used the word quite alot back in the day, but I learned otherwise very quickly

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Tekun+--> (Tekun)In this video it prolly does,...but therez other songs in which they use it towards normal everyday white ppl [/b]

Which songs?


Tekun

If conscious white rappers used ni**er towards the black bourgeoisie, we'd all get pissed


Yes, but you can't compare 'nigger' and 'cracker', as insults they are on a completely different level, one is backed up by centuries of white supremacy, well, what is the other backed up? Nothing. White people are NOT oppressed as white people.

[The Grey Blur]

Guess that learned you then didn't it? ;)
I assumed he was Black not by his music taste but his manner of speaking, his political views, his frequent quotation of Malcolm X and basically his general personality.


non-Black people like hip-hop :o
Really? I guess I can keep my half an attic-full of PE & Nas tapes then...

Some people like every kind of music! :o


Which songs?
Nearly everyone. Stop apologising for ignorant counter-racism.


Yes, but you can't compare 'nigger' and 'cracker', as insults they are on a completely different level, one is backed up by centuries of white supremacy, well, what is the other backed up? Nothing. White people are oppressed as white people
The two can't be compared as discriminatory insults but the word cracker in Dead Prez songs (or in Black Nationalist literature) doesn't insult white comrades, it alienates them.

Dead Prez have been crap for quite a while though, falling back on the lazy 'blame whitey' idea that passes for 'Black Nationalism' nowadays. They should go read some Huey P instead of just putting him in their videos.

[Xiao Banfa]

Guess that learned you then didn't it?

non-Black people like hip-hop

Let's leap on this dude and assume he's an ignorant dickhead.

I think PR knows this.

[Tekun]

Which songs?

They Schools


I went to school with some redneck crackers
Right around the time 3rd Bass dropped the cactus album
But I was readin Malcolm
I changed my name in '89 cleaning parts of my brain
Like a baby nine
I took a history class serious
Front row, every day of the week, 3rd period
Fuckin with the teachers had, callin em racist
I tried to show them crackers some light, they couldn't face it


We Want Freedom


Yeah, i'm for peace
But i'll kill ya if ya fuck with my moms or my niece
See we all want peace, but the problem is
Crackers want a bigger piece
Got it where the niggas can't get a piece
That's why police get stabbed and shot


HipHop (RBG) mix


You rather have a Lexus? or justice?
a dream or some substance?
a Beamer a necklace or freedom?
See a nigga like me don't playa hate, I just stay awake it's real hip hop
and it don't stop till we get these crackers off out block! (C'mon)


In these and in other DP songs, it appears that they aren't directing "cracker" towards the upper class snobs but rather to whoever they didn't like
If they were directing it against the white bourgeoisie, they'd make it clearer and more direct
For example:

HipHop


Uh, who shot biggie smalls?
If we don’t get them, they gonna get us all
I’m down for runnin’ up on them crackers in they city hall
We ride for y’all, all my dogs stay real





Yes, but you can't compare 'nigger' and 'cracker', as insults they are on a completely different level, one is backed up by centuries of white supremacy, well, what is the other backed up? Nothing. White people are oppressed as white people.

Well of course u can't compare them
Yet, in the end, they're both dergatory and offensive slurs based on ethnicity
If DP's, back in the day b4 they turned more gangsta, were truly revolutionary and socialist, they would have payed more attention to the BP's old motto that says that "u can't defeat racism with racism"

[Pirate Utopian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 02:18 AM

Which songs?

They Schools


I went to school with some redneck crackers
Right around the time 3rd Bass dropped the cactus album
But I was readin Malcolm
I changed my name in '89 cleaning parts of my brain
Like a baby nine
I took a history class serious
Front row, every day of the week, 3rd period
Fuckin with the teachers had, callin em racist
I tried to show them crackers some light, they couldn't face it
i think they ment their racist teachers who left out black history, atleast that's what the song is about


We Want Freedom


Yeah, i'm for peace
But i'll kill ya if ya fuck with my moms or my niece
See we all want peace, but the problem is
Crackers want a bigger piece
Got it where the niggas can't get a piece
That's why police get stabbed and shot
once again the authority like the government is mentioned here


HipHop (RBG) mix


You rather have a Lexus? or justice?
a dream or some substance?
a Beamer a necklace or freedom?
See a nigga like me don't playa hate, I just stay awake it's real hip hop
and it don't stop till we get these crackers off out block! (C'mon)
in another version they said cops, so once again it are racists opressors


In these and in other DP songs, it appears that they aren't directing "cracker" towards the upper class snobs but rather to whoever they didn't like
If they were directing it against the white bourgeoisie, they'd make it clearer and more direct
For example:

HipHop


Uh, who shot biggie smalls?
If we don’t get them, they gonna get us all
I’m down for runnin’ up on them crackers in they city hall
We ride for y’all, all my dogs stay real
them crackers in the city hall?, the mayor?, governor?, how is that not bourgeoise?




Yes, but you can't compare 'nigger' and 'cracker', as insults they are on a completely different level, one is backed up by centuries of white supremacy, well, what is the other backed up? Nothing. White people are oppressed as white people.

Well of course u can't compare them
Yet, in the end, they're both dergatory and offensive slurs based on ethnicity
If DP's, back in the day b4 they turned more gangsta, were truly revolutionary and socialist, they would have payed more attention to the BP's old motto that says that "u can't defeat racism with racism"
i would have somewhere liked that too ;)

[troll]

How about this one?

From "Hell Yeah":

"whiteboy in the wrong place at the right time,
soon as the car door open up he mine,
roll up quick and put the pistol to his jaw,
by the look on his face he prolly shitted his draws"






Don't say it's a poverty message, if they don't know a thing about him other than he's white. For all they would know, the pizza guy may be poor as fuck or who knows what.

The video for this song was horrible. If they had a point other than we're lowclass bigotted trash, they should have made it much clearer. Add to the fact that they quote the New Black Panther Party and OVERUSE the word "cracka", which many just see as a generally bigotted term for all white people. That's the perception of that word.

Funny, anyway. Knowing that word's origins, I would think BLACK people would be insulted to keep it around (whip-CRACKER). But, what do I know?


The minute I start to support Dead Prez, is the same minute I'll support Johnny Rebel. After all, he says he was just joking and didn't "really believe" all that KKK shit and claims not be racist either in interviews. He uses the same bullshit excuse of "niggers" only referring to "certain" black people, like thugs and racist blacks and such. I'm not debating the history of the n-word or whether cracker is as bad, but many are offended by it, still, and it's divisive to use it like that constantly.

[Tekun]

i think they ment their racist teachers who left out black history, atleast that's what the song is about

Nope, not the first "cracker"
Reread the first sentence

I went to school with some redneck crackers
U don't go to school with your teachers, u go to school with your schoolmates


once again the authority like the government is mentioned here

Disputable



in another version they said cops, so once again it are racists opressors

Well this isn't that other version, so it appears that they just throw the word out there
This could disputable


them crackers in the city hall?, the mayor?, governor?, how is that not bourgeoise?

Reread my post
I was giving an example of how they use "cracker" towards the white bourgeoisie in this line


Racism and counter-racism are the same thing, DP's should recognize that seeing how they once claimed to be socialists
We shouldn't be alienating our white or black comrades by speaking recklessly, especially if we're stressing unity amongst the international working class

[socialistfuture]

i disagree man, white mans done over a lot of cultures the world over. i think dead prez deserve big time to use words like cracker and so on.
the black panthers were black nationalists - sum were real keen on solidarity across the board - sum werent.
they reference the zapatistas and all sorts - america was founded on racism, the genocide of native american indians, black slavery and countless other forms of oppression etc. dead prez is telling it like it is.

:P

[socialistfuture]

another thing is the world is still controlled by the west, white supremacy is the world system. its not racist to say blacks need repirations and that redistribution is needed. im white and i support indiegenous struggles and so on, not because im a liberal that feels i need to - coz i know its the right thing.
big ups to dead prez!
plus its revolutionary to say fuck the police, down with corporations and any lacky govts that support them. im with the revolution - not whities who are afraid of offending sumone with the truth.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 03:07 AM
i disagree man, white mans done over a lot of cultures the world over. i think dead prez deserve big time to use words like cracker and so on.
the black panthers were black nationalists - sum were real keen on solidarity across the board - sum werent.
they reference the zapatistas and all sorts - america was founded on racism, the genocide of native american indians, black slavery and countless other forms of oppression etc. dead prez is telling it like it is.

:P
We shouldn't indict all whites for the crimes of a number of upper class or powerful Euro's
The white working class has been oppressed as well as other races
We're all working class, we shouldn't be alienating eachother with ethnic slurs (that's what Dead Prez are doing)

So, let's just use "cracker" all the time, no matter who gets offended, including our white workin class brothers? Is that what u would like?
Hell, let's just use "spic" for all those upper class Latinos? They've screwed me over too :rolleyes:

You're right the US was founded upon racist beliefs
Do u suggest we base socialism and communism on race also? :rolleyes:
The working class comes in all colors
Fuck race, it doesn't even biologically exist

Counter-racism = racism
DP isn't telling it like it is, they're telling it like what they wish it was

[socialistfuture]

yes a lot of white people have benefited of imperialism, colonialism and so forth.
whole nations were founded on it and continue to benefit from it. How many native american indian presidents have exited in the united states? in south america it is happening cause they are demanding what is their right. that is what dead prez are doing.
sorry but the working class in the west gets paid more than the working class in asia or africa. there is inequality based on racial lines and others.
for u to be a comrade with sumone starving ina third world nation u may have to have less of the comforts u r used to so they can have an equal material base as you. that is class war - the redistribution of wealth. sorry but the west has most of it, the white working class often has more and is better looked after and less likely to say - be invaded by the united states etc.

yes racism does not end racism, but most of what dead prez says is true - crackers fuck over blacks on all levells in US society. they also critisize blacks that do the same thing. i am not abvocating sepratism - just and end to white supremacy - which is sumbtimes subtle and wrapped up in law - law that was often made by the white ruling class. who is on top - generally one type of person - the white male. ask any oppressed person and that is often who they are held down by.

[Tekun]

yes a lot of white people have benefited of imperialism, colonialism and so forth.
whole nations were founded on it and continue to benefit from it. How many native american indian presidents have exited in the united states? in south america it is happening cause they are demanding what is their right. that is what dead prez are doing.
sorry but the working class in the west gets paid more than the working class in asia or africa. there is inequality based on racial lines and others.
for u to be a comrade with sumone starving ina third world nation u may have to have less of the comforts u r used to so they can have an equal material base as you. that is class war - the redistribution of wealth. sorry but the west has most of it, the white working class often has more and is better looked after and less likely to say - be invaded by the united states etc.

Im not contesting the fact that many white ppl and Eurocentric nations have benefited from imperialism
But how is Dead Prez, through the use of the word "cracker," demanding change or fighting this ongoing struggle?
Does the word "cracker" spontaneously amass an army of working class ppl?
Don't apologize to me, again, I am not disagreeing with the fact that inequality is based upon racial lines in the West
However, there are also black CEO's and Latino CEO's and White CEO's that base their inequality along class lines
For the most part, that's what happens in all countries, regardless of race
Ppl of all colors are exploited, some more than others, but for the most part we're all exploited
So instead of planting the seeds of division and hostility amongst the working class by throwing around ethnic slurs, we should overlook race
Can u honestly tell me that working class white ppl aren't offended by the term "cracker?"
Our comrades come in all colors, why should offend them by condoning the word "cracker?"
You're so delusional...you didn't even address the issue, specifically my questions on why we should allow the word "cracker" to circulate amongst ourselves
Next time, address the issue instead of burying it


for u to be a comrade with sumone starving ina third world nation u may have to have less of the comforts u r used to so they can have an equal material base as you. that is class war - the redistribution of wealth

Class conflict is NOT redistribution of wealth :huh:
Class conflict is the relationship between different classes (proles and cappies) in society, and the clash of their interests



yes racism does not end racism, but most of what dead prez says is true - crackers fuck over blacks on all levells in US society. they also critisize blacks that do the same thing. i am not abvocating sepratism - just and end to white supremacy - which is sumbtimes subtle and wrapped up in law - law that was often made by the white ruling class. who is on top - generally one type of person - the white male. ask any oppressed person and that is often who they are held down by

Do u live in the US?
If racism doesn't bring an end to racism, why do u condone a word that espouses and manifests counterracism?
White supremacy is a principle of the white bourgeoisie
However, when we use the word "cracker" we are insulting all white ppl
Just like if we used the word "ni**er," which is an insult to all black ppl
Even though the words have different histories, they're insulting and emphasize race
If we want to unite the working class, why should we be apologists for ppl that use a racial slur to offend, that emphasizes race rather than class?
So, because Dead Prez say some smart stuff, we should condone their use of ethnic slurs, that offend all white ppl (white comrades as well)
You ARE advocating seperatism, because u see no problem with "socialists" using ethnic slurs which do nothing but alienate our working class brothers and sisters
If u wanna attack the bourgeoisie, don't use words that group and offend all white ppl
Bourgeoisie is bourgeoisie, race doesn't matter
By using a slur based on race, your portraying the bourgeoisie as only and exclusively white
When that is not the case....
As communists, we should focus on class, rather than race

Im an hispanic immigrant from Latin America
I've been discriminated against and ridiculed, all on account of my race or origin
But I know better than to alienate our white comrades, by using words like "cracker" and "redneck"
White ppl have marginalized me, and most of all the other races
But guess what, now, the upper class is multiracial
And therefore I focus my attack solely on class, just like Marx espoused
Most of our members on RevLeft our white, how would u think they would feel if u were saying stuff like "cracker this" "cracker that"
U think they'd be happy? I doubt it

By taking this position, you're only apologizing for counterracism
And as u said it yourself, racism doesn't bring an end to racism
If we are to get rid of race, we have to get rid of our very own racism

[socialistfuture]

no white supremecy is not for the bourgeoisie only,
i know poor racist people, middle class ones, working class ones.

im sorry but race exists no matter what u believe. i believe all are equal - but different as well. i know an inuit is different to maori and so on. different cultures, languages and customs. we are not all the same, tho i am sure we agree one is not above the other.

I believe that it is ok to use words like Gringo and Cracker. sum blacks dont mind using the word Nigger. language is language, the way people act to each other is different. i am far more concerned about people starving from economic policies and racism in the state than the use of a word like 'cracker'. at my flat where I live, we use words like cracker - mainly jokingly.

Im sorry but Marx was quite eurocentric himself, he was materialistic and scientific. I am more into tribal and indigenous cultures, not western industrialism. so there are different ways to life, structure societies and live together and at times apart. A lot of history if taught from the victors perspective. the white mans verison of history. the glorious crusades, the great discoverer Christopher Columbus etc. It is a lie.

do not tell me i am for counter racism, i do not support black CEOs or asian ones or any others. im anti capitalist too, just think that even a lot of socialism and so on is still dominated by white privileges. We can choose to be political or not, somone who has not much and needs to be do what they most to survive and protect and feed their family is in a different position. what are you doing to stop america controlling latin america for example and to stop racist cops from targetting - arabs and blacks? capitalism is racist - dead prez fights back against that. i dont know of them ever beating up somone who is white. do u?

[Pirate Utopian]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 11 2006, 04:34 PM
I assumed he was Black not by his music taste but his manner of speaking, his political views, his frequent quotation of Malcolm X and basically his general personality.
thanks brotha
anyway, if you think dead prez is anti-white, read these parts of this song

Da Lench Mob - Buck Tha Devil


Show 'em how to eat the lip, and how to beat the shit
out of a devil see a brother he's agreed to give
asalaam alaikum, shake 'em, and whitey can't fake 'em
And if they try F.O.I. will break 'em


The devil hates, the devil hates, the devil hates my skin
because I'm original, so please tell a friend (yo)
But who will win in the end?
That's whitey's in the (??) tryin to blend with the black men
(But we'll check the blue eyes, contacts ain't wise
cause different color eyes get chastized)
So can I get a witness, work on your fitness
and be sure to put the devil on your shitlist


(I take out white boys that's scary) (BOO!)


(Keep your boys cause we got big toys
with the one mile scope, takin whitey's throat)


you can quote
from the L.M., run run run run run and tell them
with they devilish ways and they pale skin
(that the motherfuckers'll never win!)
(YEAHHHHH, AND IT'S LIKE THAT!) HAHAHAHAHA!

[socialistfuture]

Artist: Dead Prez f/ Stephen Marley, Ghetto Youths Crew Lyrics
Song: Dem Crazy Lyrics
The police is the enemy

[Hook:]
Everywhere the white man go he bring misery
All throughout history, look it up
Everything them bald heads touch they fuck it upEvery government he set up, it be corrupt

Revolution

Dead Prez, people Army, Steve Marley, Ghetto Youth Crew

What you know is who you are, who are you?
Do you know who you are in the world? What is your world view?
What do you go through?, what has your life showed you?
What are you learnin in this so called life?
Do you have principle or do you blow with the wind
Do you wanna be free but don't know where to begin
Do you know your enemy from your friend, even you can
It's deep in this scannin the system that keepin us here
Will we survive, do you believe, are we afraid
Would you rather have control of your life, or be a slave
Show me a sign, a pig ain't no homey of mine
They own me what's mine, I show you if you loan me your nine
I'm only concerned for tables to turn
When the people learn the truth about the system, the cities will burn
And I stand firm, like Chaka Zulu, these crackers can't stop you
Who you?

[Stephen Marley]
I'm Crazy, Dem Crazy
Just those crazy boys, right and tough

This is what we be waitin for? 21st century we still poor
World war, they want me to kill four
What happened to the future they always predicted
With new science fictional things and space visits
I've seen two sides, us against them
Police troops ride with four to five men
Prison business is boomin, senators grin
People searchin for answers, where to begin
Capitilism born from the backs of blacks
White folks relax, live off the kick backs
Gettin work to the bone jo, build this country
Further exploided by class to make money
Filthy rich capilist with blood lootUse main frames systems to bank and compute
With the next technology, credit to the wires
Internet growth the man more suppliers
Welfare, ederly checks and wage workers
All us, elephants trapped in they circus
Ain't fightin over man made chips no more
When the lights go out, it's gonna belong to the poor

[Stephen Marley]
Dem crazy, dem crazy
Just those crazy boys, right and tough

[Chorus 2X:]
Everything you got, is what you took from me
Conditions on my block, just like me and slavery

[Marley sayin more stuff]
I'm feelin, oh what I feel

[Hook 2X]

[repeated twice]
Where the soldiers at?
Where the warriors at?
Where the riders at?
Where them fighters at?

True soldiers don't die, long live all legends
Nocturnal

[RedKnight]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_cracker

[Janus]

I'm not sure what the topic of discussion here is exactly?

Anyways, cracker was class term used to refer to a lowly, uneducated Southern white but is now broadened to be a racial term used to refer to whites in general.

[socialistfuture]

i get the impression cracker means a certain type of white person, the way gringo is used as slang - or yankee. sumtimes its the way u use a word not the word u use.
then again ive never been offended by it, but if my brother or sumone uses the word niggers in a bad way i get real fucked off...

[Tekun]

no white supremecy is not for the bourgeoisie only,
i know poor racist people, middle class ones, working class ones.

I never said it was exclusively bourgeois
What I said was that its an inherent principle in the white upper class



im sorry but race exists no matter what u believe. i believe all are equal - but different as well. i know an inuit is different to maori and so on. different cultures, languages and customs. we are not all the same, tho i am sure we agree one is not above the other.

No moron, therez no such thing as race
Inuit, Maori, and Tutsi are different ethnic groups, not different races
Race is a socially constructed identity created in order to divide the working class
Of course we're all different and equal, but race differentiates between groups of humans, which in itself doesn't make sense
You can't differentiate one human from another, and that's exactly what race is
We all have different customs and languages, but race does not determine what custom or language you will adopt, ethnicity (nurture) determines that



I believe that it is ok to use words like Gringo and Cracker. sum blacks dont mind using the word Nigger. language is language, the way people act to each other is different. i am far more concerned about people starving from economic policies and racism in the state than the use of a word like 'cracker'. at my flat where I live, we use words like cracker - mainly jokingly.

Really, so u would condone the verbal and racial abuse of one comrade towards another all on account of a difference in ethnicity?
What was I thinking....so since a couple of black ppl use "nigger" we can all use it! :rolleyes:
Is that what you're hinting at? So are u gonna start using "nigger" in a casual, or jokingly manner?
U might regard this issue as trivial in the entire revolutionary movement, but if u see differences amongst the working class, how can we believe that you're going to treat all of us as equals or comrades? Are u gonna be another borderline racist? With racist and inappropriate remarks here and there?



Im sorry but Marx was quite eurocentric himself, he was materialistic and scientific. I am more into tribal and indigenous cultures, not western industrialism. so there are different ways to life, structure societies and live together and at times apart. A lot of history if taught from the victors perspective. the white mans verison of history. the glorious crusades, the great discoverer Christopher Columbus etc. It is a lie.

Marx was a product of his surroundings
Just because Marx was eurocentric doesn't mean that we should condone racism, nor counterracism
I don't care what you're into
As long as you're not apologizing for counterracism, its all good

WTF does this have to do with DP's using the word "cracker?"
I know all that shit, I do know how to read
Im amused at how u address some of my arguments, completely overlook others, and then go on these long and unrelated rants



do not tell me i am for counter racism, i do not support black CEOs or asian ones or any others. im anti capitalist too, just think that even a lot of socialism and so on is still dominated by white privileges. We can choose to be political or not, somone who has not much and needs to be do what they most to survive and protect and feed their family is in a different position. what are you doing to stop america controlling latin america for example and to stop racist cops from targetting - arabs and blacks? capitalism is racist - dead prez fights back against that. i dont know of them ever beating up somone who is white. do u?

If u don't see a problem with DP's using the word "cracker" than you're apologizing counterracism.
Again, I realize that white privilige still exists
But this does not mean that we have carte blanche to use racist words towards white ppl, including the white working class which is exploited like all the other working class ethnic groups
What am I doing, let's see bsides helping out the FPM...I volunteer my services by tutoring and mentoring kids of ALL ethnicities and I also help out at a soup kitchen here in LA
In addition, I protest at all the causes that most of us here on RevLeft deem important


dead prez fights back against that. i dont know of them ever beating up somone who is white. do u?

Capitalism hurts the working class regardless of race
And coincidentally, the majority of those who make up the working class are ppl of color
Therefore, they are more exploited than ethnic groups that are majorities (white)
So let me get this straight, until DP's starts beating up white working class ppl, you're gonna call em out on it? WTF? :rolleyes:
Go ahead and do that, kuz DP's are really uniting the working class by calling white ppl "crackers"

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 04:05 am
Anyways, cracker was class term used to refer to a lowly, uneducated Southern white but is now broadened to be a racial term used to refer to whites in general.
You're thinking about "redneck", which originated to describe white farm hands. "Cracker" is also a class term, which originated during slavery days. The white overseer was the man who cracked the whip -- the "cracker". It became a term used against any white person (usually male) who was seen as oppressive.

I personally have no problem with the word.

Miles

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by CDL
The thing is, black people are objectively oppressed, as black people. White people aren't oppressed because they're white. There are many white people who are oppressed, i.e. workers; but it's not because they're white.

"Reverse racism" is really bullshit. Racism against black people gets them shot and beat by police, terrorized by fascists, rejected from schools, denied jobs, denied housing, etc.

A black guy calling a white guy a cracker does nothing. The white guy isn't going to be refused a job 'cause he's white.

Get it?
:wub:

Yes, while Black people can hold personally discriminatory opinions of white people, there is no institutional racism directed at white people- so reverse racism is basically a fallacy.

In fact, the term 'reverse racism' really annoys me because it does equate the two, without an analysis of the institutions involved. Yuck.

[Tekun]

A black guy calling a white guy a cracker does nothing. The white guy isn't going to be refused a job 'cause he's white.

Get it?



Yes, while Black people can hold personally discriminatory opinions of white people, there is no institutional racism directed at white people- so reverse racism is basically a fallacy.

In fact, the term 'reverse racism' really annoys me because it does equate the two, without an analysis of the institutions involved. Yuck.


Right, I realize that institutionalized counterracism is a fallacy, but what Im referring to in my posts is usage of the word "cracker" among everyday ppl, friends,...
Independently speaking (seeing how Im not white), how would a caucasian comrade react or feel if we threw around the word "cracker?"
Or how would our white working class brothers and sisters feel if we referred to all the reactionary white politicians as "crackers?"
That's basically what Im getting at

Kuz I used the word quite a bit back in the day, towards hostile and just plain ol white ppl that I perceived as different or from the 'burbs
I didn't care about who I offended, and I justified my usage of the word by the centuries of white dominance in the US
It wasn't until I offended someone, that I started rationalizing things, and I realized that comrades come in all colors, and using specifically racial slurs against our class enemies created discomfort and had the potential of alienating some of our class comrades
If a white person uses words like "beaner" or "wetback" (jokingly or not) I get pissed off
So, I believe the same goes for white ppl and the word "cracker"
My experience showed me that racial slurs (white, black, latino, but specifically black) almost always alienate and create uneasiness
So, that's why Im not feeling how DP's throw around the word




But they were never truly socialist comrade. They follow the African People's Socialist Party (APSP), which is run by the petty-bourgeois Omali Yeshitela.

True, my statement was rather vague concerning their politics
It was more of a general term

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by CDL+--> (CDL)I'm pretty sure "cracker" comes from "corn-crackers," which is what white workers (mainly Irish), recently freed from bond-servatude. I've also heard that the "crack" sound from the whip like CL said; but it was from cattle herders in the South. Supposedly you could here their whips "crack" from miles away. I could be wrong though.

But anyway, I don't have a problem with it. I don't use it; but I don't have a problem with it.

The thing is, black people are objectively oppressed, as black people. White people aren't oppressed because they're white. There are many white people who are oppressed, i.e. workers; but it's not because they're white.

"Reverse racism" is really bullshit. Racism against black people gets them shot and beat by police, terrorized by fascists, rejected from schools, denied jobs, denied housing, etc.

A black guy calling a white guy a cracker does nothing. The white guy isn't going to be refused a job 'cause he's white.

Get it?
[/b]

Great post!





Originally posted by [email protected]
Independently speaking (seeing how Im not white), how would a caucasian comrade react or feel if we threw around the word "cracker?"

Well the vast majority of 'white' respondents to this thread ARE NOT offended by the term (i am one such person), and i don't know any white people who are?

Then again the term itself is restricted almost entirely to north america, so perhaps so many white people in other places such as oz, who aren't offended, are this way in part because the term has no history and is rarely used where they live, regardless, my answer is NO, now please stop telling me i should be offended and that i should denounce DP for being 'racist'! :P

Moreover,

Whilst i don't find 'cracker' offensive or 'racist', i do agree with Permanent Revolution that the term can alienate some white people, though i do not think that means the word should be 'forbidden' - this confrontational usage can actually be necessary or useful depending on the context.

When white people are 'alienated' or alledge that they are 'alienated' by words like 'cracker' we do really need to ask them WHY? Because a lot of people who make this claim do so from dubious positions.

In some instances this is because they are in fact racists, and use this example as a way to point and jeer at so-called Black 'racism' or 'reverse-racism', similar to the way that some men leap at any opportunity to point out and play up examples of so-called 'female sexism' or 'reverse sexism'.

In other cases they be ignorant of the roots of the term, and thus its intended meaning in context, i.e. they might hear someone use the term, even to describe a white racist and through ignorance assume (regardless of the intent of the speaker) that the speaker is attacking ALL white folk.

Still other people may be aware of the terms roots and varied use, but protest 'alienation' out of some liberal, 'colour-blind'-type recoil. The kind of people who get upset about autonomous Black organisation and complain about being excluded (again similar claims made by hetero-men in regards to autonomous women/queer groups or organising), that if we want to fight prejudice we all have to get together in one big group. Thus attacking some whites (particularly racists/liberals), or proposing autonomous Black organising or ideas is an affront to their liberal ideals, because race should be 'irrelevant' as we are all 'united in struggle'.


Tekun

Or how would our white working class brothers and sisters feel if we referred to all the reactionary white politicians as "crackers?"
That's basically what Im getting at

Confused?

If people want to refer to reactionary white politicans in this manner they would be justified in doin so.

But on the other hand an effort must be made to explain what you actually mean when the term is used, if you say cracker but mean 'reactionary white politicians' and not just 'white person' you really need to make that plain, because many white people (as probably many Black people as well) do not actually know or understand the origins of the term, and would become defensive and/or angry; and other (racist?) whites will use this ambiguity to make claims of 'reverse-racism' and drag down the discussion in that manner.

As i said, if people want to refer to reactionary white politicans in this manner they would be justified in doin so, but its certainly a difficult approach to take for the reasons i described above, and whether or not this is the best way to confront white racism i'm undecided.

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

hehe... cracker. i reckon i'm a cracker... or a kraut / mick (to be more specific).

doesn't bother me. words is words... call me what you will... i know i'm still just a worker, no matter what labels (even discriminatory ones) people apply to me.

though personally i don't use them unless i'm really familiar with the person and know they don't care (my friend tuyen's nickname is gook)... i don't have any problem with anybody using any racial slur. doesn't hurt the person, and if anything, just hurts the person using it - it makes them look like a racist asshole.

but what i hate, is when racists think they can use them just because members of the race against which the slur is directed use them with one another (this happens alot with redneck racists and the word 'nigger.' they believe because alot of black people (african americans) call each other 'nigga' that they (the racists) can as well). when a black person addresses his friends as 'nigga,' he's not intending insult, he's using a sort of jargon.

i personally would never call a black person 'nigga' because a) i'm white (and like my teeth right where they are) and b) i'm not part of the hip-hop culture in which that is accepted (this feller aaron whith whom i work, who's white, is a 'g' and calls everyone 'nigga' no matter what colour they are - that's one of the hip-hop culture ways of addressing your buddies).

...

and as far as the homosexual slurs go... i don't call them anything derogatory... i just call them by their name. but supposing i did... why would it bother or offend them? they know they're gay, and why would they care if some moron calls them a name.

it's like calling someone stupid. who honestly gets offended when someone calls them stupid? it's childish. be the mature one - don't let it get to you.

[Pirate Utopian]

im a crackerass honkey who likes hiphop, do you think i should use the term "Nigga"?
i dont think so, cause the term has a history involed with decades of slavery, wich cracker doesnt

[Eastside Revolt]

Most of the time I am not offended by the word "cracker". As anyone using it against me obviously doesn't know me well. :P

[Sir_No_Sir]

well the way i view it is that this topic is a waste of time
cracka
nigga
beaner

[Tekun]

Then again the term itself is restricted almost entirely to north america, so perhaps so many white people in other places such as oz, who aren't offended, are this way in part because the term has no history and is rarely used where they live, regardless, my answer is NO, now please stop telling me i should be offended and that i should denounce DP for being 'racist'!

Perhaps it is an American thing, nevertheless I know that some of the ppl that I used to kick it felt alienated whenever I or others used it, they let me know about it and I also got feedback from co-workers and others who felt uneasy about the word "cracker"



In other cases they be ignorant of the roots of the term, and thus its intended meaning in context, i.e. they might hear someone use the term, even to describe a white racist and through ignorance assume (regardless of the intent of the speaker) that the speaker is attacking ALL white folk.

They basically felt uneasy due to the history of white on black racism, and they felt that by using "cracker" I was unearthing events or actions that they felt ashamed of
They basically explained to me that repeating the word reminded them of all the evil things that their "forefathers" had done
Obviously, one can see that they have identity issues....
Those who felt offended in my experience, told me personally that the term rekindles all the old racial feelings that they wish would disappear
And by no means are these ppl upper class snobs or boojee in any way, they're just plain working class ppl

Therefore, I basically layed off the racial terms, in order not to alienate those who were more or less influenced by my political beliefs, potential comrades
And therefore, I've extirpated "cracker" from my list of insults



But on the other hand an effort must be made to explain what you actually mean when the term is used, if you say cracker but mean 'reactionary white politicians' and not just 'white person' you really need to make that plain, because many white people (as probably many Black people as well) do not actually know or understand the origins of the term, and would become defensive and/or angry; and other (racist?) whites will use this ambiguity to make claims of 'reverse-racism' and drag down the discussion in that manner.

See that's what Im talking about...
I used to use it as a general, yet abusive term towards whites whom I particularly disliked, without them actually being guilty of doing anything racist or hostile
I would label someone as a "cracker" for no reason at all, maybe just bkuz I didn't like how they behaved
So basically, I used the term to refer to whites who didn't meet "my approval"


Considering your explanation, only Sticman and M1 know the context in which they were using "cracker?"
As for me, like CDL, I'll avoid the term

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

im a crackerass honkey who likes hiphop, do you think i should use the term "Nigga"?
i dont think so, cause the term has a history involed with decades of slavery, wich cracker doesnt

be my guest. if you fit well into the hip hop culture, then go right ahead. just use it carefully... even the nonoffensive 'nigga' can offend some... you might catch a beat-down fueled by the anger associated with 200 years of slave labour.

and by the way... cracker does have it's roots in slave history... 'cracker' is the white man, he who 'cracks the whip,' or so i've read. might not be true, but it makes sense.

[Eastside Revolt]

I would also like to add the I find the word "wigger" to be very unacceptable.

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 07:34 pm
I would also like to add the I find the word "wigger" to be very unacceptable.
lol... 'wigger.'

creative... but dumb.

implying that 'hip hop culture' is reserved only to african americans. one of my most hated of all things - suggesting that any one specific way of life is limited to one specific group of people... that's like saying that because i'm a european american, that i'm required to be a christian, since the christians come from europe (i know, i know... not originally, blah blah blah. they do now, so live with it).

[Hiero]

When White people do something so stereotypical racists I tend to use the word cracker to describe them. Like during the Cronulla riots, these people really were attacking like crackers. I like to use the word to describe emotional white people who act in a very sterotyped racist way.

I think the word just expresses how embarrising some white people can act, it is like they want to act out this ignorant racist White guy attitude. I only use the term with other leftists though. I don't think people should use it freely. Like I wouldn't turn up to a public meeting and start calling people I don't agree with crackers. I don't consider all White people to be crackers, well I obviously don't think of myself as a cracker.

Another example, I would definitely say Bill O'reilly is a cracker.

I would however find it offensive if I was called a cracker. Due to the fact it would make incorrect assumptions based on my skin colour.

[Raj Radical]

Cracker is a racist term, which incites hatred, division and regressive thinking within the working class.

It is good to stay away from those kind of things =)

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Raj Radical
Cracker is a racist term, which incites hatred, division and regressive thinking within the working class.

It does?

So what do you propose? Hound anyone who uses the term for being a 'racist' or anti-working class?

Sure that is a lot easier than confronting white racism, or trying to understand the historical-contemporary oppression of Black people in the USA, but i'd hardly call that approach 'progressive'.

[Pirate Utopian]

good BD now that dead prez is defended, let's help immortal technique out :)

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 30, 2006 10:21 pm
good BD now that dead prez is defended, let's help immortal technique out :)
Sorry bub, i'm never gonna defend that sexist homophobic poser :)

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Black Dagger+October 30, 2006 11:27 pm--> (Black Dagger @ October 30, 2006 11:27 pm)
Big [email protected] 30, 2006 10:21 pm
good BD now that dead prez is defended, let's help immortal technique out :)
Sorry bub, i'm never gonna defend that sexist homophobic poser :) [/b]
Poser?

[Black Dagger]

He's stated that's not actually a communist or a socialist or whatever. So what is he then? Basically he uses revolutionary rhetoric to create an image for himself, he is a essentially a 'studio revolutionary'.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 30, 2006 11:59 pm
He's stated that's not actually a communist or a socialist or whatever. So what is he then? Basically he uses revolutionary rhetoric to create an image for himself, he is a essentially a 'studio revolutionary'.
Where did he state this?

[Pirate Utopian]

in the poverty of philosophy he says he's a socialist!

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 31, 2006 12:09 am
in the poverty of philosophy he says he's a socialist!
Yeah i have heard him say he is "the socialist guerrilla who will kill counter revolutionaries personally" or something similar.

[ichneumon]

okay - "cracker" refers to a type of house, "like a box of crackers" and in fact indicates poor whites, or possibly people who crack corn for food (making grits), NOT slave owners.

historically, this is the social class that *hated* african slaves - the slaves took their jobs.

being a euroamerican in the rural south, let me ask you: how would you feel if any time someone wanted to appear stupid, they'd ape the accent of your parents? what if this was a-okay even on national TV? what would happen if i were to use an urban black accent for the same purpose?

ridiculing southern whites is still racism. as far as i'm concerned, if you divide humans into socio-political "races", you are a racist.

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 30, 2006 12:27 pm
Sorry bub, i'm never gonna defend that sexist homophobic poser :)
pose as a homophobic sexist?

wouldn't it be better to pose as a bank robber? that way... when you get caught, you can say: aw, c'mon guys, i was only kidding... i ain't even a real bank robber, i just think they're really cool...

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

okay - "cracker" refers to a type of house, "like a box of crackers" and in fact indicates poor whites, or possibly people who crack corn for food (making grits), NOT slave owners.

historically, this is the social class that *hated* african slaves - the slaves took their jobs.

hmm... didn't know that.


being a euroamerican in the rural south, let me ask you: how would you feel if any time someone wanted to appear stupid, they'd ape the accent of your parents? what if this was a-okay even on national TV? what would happen if i were to use an urban black accent for the same purpose?

so... what about hillbilly comedians and commedians that immitate hillbillies? they mean no harm (in fact, most of them mean just the opposite)... are they racists? are comedians like jeff foxeworthy and tim wilson racists?


ridiculing southern whites is still racism. as far as i'm concerned, if you divide humans into socio-political "races", you are a racist.

but, honestly, personally... i don't much care for rednecks/hillbillies. some of them are cool... but a good deal of them are really dumb (and a many few of those are racists).

that... and i don't like their accent (especially the creole-southern-louisiana accent). half the time, i have no idea what they're talking about.

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

Originally posted by Raj [email protected] 30, 2006 08:18 am
Cracker is a racist term, which incites hatred, division and regressive thinking within the working class.

It is good to stay away from those kind of things =)
i reckon these days, 'cracker' is more comical than anything else.

but then again... i prefer the company of open minded, enlightened people...

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Hiero+October 30, 2006 01:01 pm--> (Hiero @ October 30, 2006 01:01 pm)
Black [email protected] 30, 2006 11:59 pm
He's stated that's not actually a communist or a socialist or whatever. So what is he then? Basically he uses revolutionary rhetoric to create an image for himself, he is a essentially a 'studio revolutionary'.
Where did he state this? [/b]
Someone interviewed him awhile back, and he basically stated that he was not communist nor socialist
He said he wasn't tied in to any political movement or ideology
I couldn't find it
But here's something...from other sources


studied it. It was a political science major on the European Union and the Senior Soviet Dispute. People criticize America a lot and they ask me if I’m a communist because I have certain views that contradict with what goes on in America. But how could I be communist in the traditional Russian sense when Russia did the same thing to Eastern Europe and the Middle East that America did to Latin-America and to Western Africa. Forms of government are just another way to control people. It doesn’t matter what you call it. Russia wasn’t spreading freedom for the people in Poland and Afghanistan. They were killing people. What I do with my music: I relate to what goes on in the hood and what goes on in the rest of the world. I’m in the hood so I’m educated on what goes on there and I educate myself on what goes on in the rest of the world.
http://hiphopinjesmoel.com/interviews/1034



Then there are the people who are wearing the Emperors clothes for him, talking as if Bush was some rock of Gibraltar. As if he had led us like Ulysses Grant thru a Civil War instead of running this country thru the mud. This man is a complete failure as a president and this has finally awoken some people to it. 9/11 was a cover up of mistakes, dark alliances and economic power moves. The campaign to remove the Taliban should have never been conducted after 9/11/2001, but rather in 1998 when they started ethnically cleansing their own people the Asiatic so called "Hazara." We have always put corporate profits before the living standard of people in American foreign policy and now that echoes in our own nation.. That is the very nature of Capitalism. But nothing in the form of corrputed Russian Communism offers a viable alternative, only an unmasked totalitarian rule without the details that we have and the choice between Pepsi and Coke. I’m not a Marxist, a Communist or an anarchist I am just a Peruvian/Black muthafucka from Harlem but I could see this truth if I were blind.
http://www.immortal-technique.com/home.html

[Raisa]

That doesnt mean he isnt on some revolutionary shit just cause he doesnt claim nothing.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2006 06:40 am
That doesnt mean he isnt on some revolutionary shit just cause he doesnt claim nothing.
That was not the question at hand
Reread my entire post

[troll]

It's not the word "cracker" itself that is as offensive, as it is the meaning and tone behind whose saying it, and if they are actually showing respect to you as a human being. Some black guys using names like "whiteboy" against my brother stuck him up, a while ago. Now, obviously, the word is different when joking with friends, and when the guy trying to mug you is using it in a derogatory manner.

It's divisive, because MANY white people see it as a term that is rarely used, AT ALL, except for on occasion, by extremist separatist-type black biggots. Which is where the modern negative connotations come from.

[Fawkes]

I haven't read all three pages of posts so I may be repeating what some other people said. The term cracker comes from white cattle-herders down in Florida.

[Hampton]

But I grew up learned the N word and C word at the same time, and heard never to use the former, and still don't . . . occassionally (not really)

and


and I don't use names when I am insulting people (because it's stupid)

but


I would call Condoleza Rice a Nigger, or one of those slaves that helped "Massa."

:rolleyes:

And why would you call Coni a nigger but Bill not a cracker? Just because you don't know what the correct defination of cracker is?


if you are using the term only against whites because they are white and you don't like them . . . than you are the only one being racist

Why do you call Coni a nigger? Because she is black right? Does that make you a racist? Or do you call white people niggers too? If Bill isn't a cracker or redneck is he a nigger?

[Hiero]

And why would you call Coni a nigger but Bill not a cracker? Just because you don't know what the correct defination of cracker is?

Because Bill plays the sax, crackers play the banjo.

[Hampton]

a racist is firstly someone who believes in a superior "race" or secondly someone who believes that "races" exist.

See here's the problem, there's two dozen reasons to hate Condi none of which have to do with her race. By calling her a nigger implies you are simply judging her by her race, admitting than race therefore exists, which by your defination makes you a racist.

[twovultures]

i don't like their accent (especially the creole-southern-louisiana accent).

The Creole people are mixed-race, not white. What y'all just said could very well be construed as a racist remahrk, mah friend. It is certainly biased against the creole culture.
There is inherent bias in the South like in all the US and many would argue in all the world. It's one of the things we're fighting against. But, and I know this has already been said, counter-racism is still racism.