Support For the DPRK

[Joby]

Should socialists across the globe support the DPRKs efforts to create a nuclear weapon--or support the DPRK at all?

China seems to be constantly at odds with them.

I'm not advocating the support of military intervention there, or anything of the like, just asking what your stance on the North is.

[BreadBros]

It depends. Support them how? They are not a workers state, they are not Marxist, they are not even Stalinist. Workers are terribly oppressed within the country and the country has been completely mis-managed by incompetant leaders. However, does that mean it deserves to get attacked and do DPRK workers deserve to be killed in some war? NO! So, no to support it ideologically, yes to opposing any imperialist war against it. As for China, thats not surprising, China is merely a capitalist country with some state interventionist policies, its not surprising they would side with their newfound trade and business partners.

[Janus]

A similar discussion occured here

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=56480

[Tekun]

I support their right to arm themselves against imperialist aggression
But I despise Juche and the Dear Leader, basically the entire platform of the DPRK
The link has plenty of reasons why....

A socialist counterrevolution must take place in that country, in order to empower the workers, improve the conditions, and succeed as a true socialist nation
Because as of right now, Juche is failing for millions of ppl outside Pyongyang

[Marsella]

I don't see how you could support nuclear arms in the hands of reactionaries. And don't give the blanket argument of 'USA, France, Israel has them"
The best defence against imperialism would just to calm the fuck down- where's the common sense

[Demogorgon]

They are effectrively a feudal monarchy. There is no reason on Earth we shoulld support them.

I would never support an invasion of course. That just makes things worse, but don't believe their ridiculous propoganda

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

Support them against Imperialist aggression.

There is no worldwide revolution happening at this moment, yet imperialism is ravaging a large section of the World, and people are taking ideological stances while working-class people are being slaughtered.

One battle at a time please.

[Goatse]

If they were victims of US (or anyone's) aggression, then yes. But no more so than I'd support Israel being a victim of foreign aggression... I'd support the effort to fight imperialism, but not necessarily the government.

[( R )evolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 08:07 AM
The best defence against imperialism would just to calm the fuck down- where's the common sense
Yeah cause that worked in Iraq.

[Marsella]

Not every war is 'imperialist.'

The US does not want NK to have Nuclear Weapons because it would be a threat to their interests/security (even though I doubt NK would ever use nuclear weapons)

But that doesn't mean its imperialist. I'm not sure but isn't imperialism where a country invades another to exploit its resources? That example would be better applied to Iraq

And what i meant by common sense is not all this 'OMG NK has nuclear weapons we're all gonna die.' Like I said the most war-mongering countries have nukes, it doesnt mean they use them. And just because they are the 'enemies' of our 'enemies' does not make them our friends

But IMO no communist should give support to this government. Yet you support them building Nuclear weapons whilst their people starve! You are opportunists at the very best

We should support the overthrow of this government by its people

A re-invigoration of 'Western' Capitalism would be a step forward

[chimx]

The DPRK is founded on the crushing of the Korean communist movement for the sake of establishing a puppet regime as a soviet satellite. It purposefully divided the Korean peninsula (along with the help of the US-Rhee regime), favored a policy of foreign trusteeship, and the crushing of anti-soviet leftists. fuck the DPRK!


can i get an 'amen'?

[Joby]

Can we agree that the DPRK is , now, at least, almost completely based on the maintaining the survival of the leadership alone?

[Red Rebel]

Should socialists across the globe support the DPRKs efforts to create a nuclear weapon--or support the DPRK at all?

No. North Korea isn't socialist. Its Juche. Its closer to a feudal monarchy (Demogorgon said) than socialism.

[anomaly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 01:20 PM
The DPRK is founded on the crushing of the Korean communist movement for the sake of establishing a puppet regime as a soviet satellite. It purposefully divided the Korean peninsula (along with the help of the US-Rhee regime), favored a policy of foreign trusteeship, and the crushing of anti-soviet leftists. fuck the DPRK!


can i get an 'amen'?
Amen, brother, amen.

[( R )evolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 11:23 AM
Not every war is 'imperialist.'

The US does not want NK to have Nuclear Weapons because it would be a threat to their interests/security (even though I doubt NK would ever use nuclear weapons)

But that doesn't mean its imperialist. I'm not sure but isn't imperialism where a country invades another to exploit its resources? That example would be better applied to Iraq

And what i meant by common sense is not all this 'OMG NK has nuclear weapons we're all gonna die.' Like I said the most war-mongering countries have nukes, it doesnt mean they use them. And just because they are the 'enemies' of our 'enemies' does not make them our friends

But IMO no communist should give support to this government. Yet you support them building Nuclear weapons whilst their people starve! You are opportunists at the very best

We should support the overthrow of this government by its people

A re-invigoration of 'Western' Capitalism would be a step forward
No, but every war is nationalistic. I never said anything about imperalism. The US does not want NK to have Nukes because once a nation gets nukes it almost compeltely wipes the military option off of the table. I do not considered NK to be friends of the left. As already stated they are Juche which is more like feudal monarcy and yes there polices pretty much are to insure the safety of and longetivity of the goverement (kim line) But it is a matter of time and I believe that North Korea needed bombs not bread because nukes are a defesnive tactit

[Hiero]

The US and the UK are imperialist nations. The export large amounts of capital to expliot prices and wages in lesser developed countries. Everything the do is imperialist. They oppose the armament of any country that opposes US hegonomy. Mao Zedong said "Political power grows out of a gun". The gun is a metaphor for military armament. Frantz Fanon noted the need for newly independent nations to build strong defenses and always be ready to use violence after liberation. This is excactly what the DPRK are doing. This is why only imperialist nations and their lackeys oppose the DPRK. This is why newly indepenent countries do not criticise other independent countries.

[Morag]

I don't think that we should support NKs development of nuclear technologies and weapons. Partly because Kim Il-Jong is a creepy reactionary, and partly because the bomb is so far down on the list of developments North Korea truly needs that the program itself mocks the people of North Korea. Food, books, energy (and not the explodable kind) are the things that would truly give North Korea stability, not a bomb that might reach Japan but likely won't.

[Kia]

Frantz Fanon noted the need for newly independent nations to build strong defenses and always be ready to use violence after liberation. This is excactly what the DPRK are doing.
newly independent? Unless im wrong, I thought N Korea has been around for 50years and longer. Also, doesnt North Korea have a huge military along with a military arsenal? If all of this is true then there is NO justification for developing a nuclear bomb.
Anyone with a good conscience knows and disagrees with nuclear weapons. Personally, Nuclear weapons are one of the most horrible weapons developed by man. Frankly I wont support any country (monarchy, communist, anarchist, democratic, or anything else) now or in the future that develops or has nuclear weapons.

Good Fucking Ridence to Nuclear Arms.

[socialistfuture]

i think people support a country standing up to america and US hegemony but a lot dont think nuclear weapons aren't a solution (beyond a defensive measure to stop a country being invaded),
and that north korea is not pro worker, so it is defensive (reactionary). i would imagine asian workers uniting across borders against capital would be part of a long term solution. while that sounds distant and slightly dislinked - it is what needs to happen and is part of INTERNATIONALISM which is the long term goal and strategy of anti capitalism - both anarchist and socialist.
China and Japan and others are against workers rights - they are state capitalist and the nations (and their governments) are pro capitalist and after free trade and endless profit, which is against workers rights and the environment.

SO support North Korean people (not their govt), support the right to not be invaded by america - to eventually (hopefully peacefully) end the govt of north korea - maybe serbian style. who knows - long term they need a revolution and asia along with the world needs an alternative to capitalism. sorry if i pointed the obvious or was long winded.

US back off, capitalism fuck off.

[mauvaise foi]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 08:28 AM
SO support North Korean people (not their govt), support the right to not be invaded by america - to eventually (hopefully peacefully) end the govt of north korea - maybe serbian style. who knows
Serbian style? What, you mean a U.S.-backed coup after repeated bombings by the U.S. air force? I'm not a big fan of the DPRK, but I'm also not a big fan of imperialist intervention.

[socialistfuture]

no i mean when milosovic (spelling sorry) was toppled by students/and others after the civil war, can find sum info on it later if u want.

i got friends from kosovo (former yugoslavia) - am no fan of the US bombing over eastern europe either.
i think north korea needs to implode and them sumthing new imerge. hopefully like bolivia etc - tho its possible the state will grow strong there again and the govt sellout to capital like so many do.

people power.... against multinationals..

[kaaos_af]

The SUCI makes some good points in this statement:




Socialist Unity Centre of India
CENTRAL COMMITTEE
48 LENIN SARANI, KOLKATA 700013
PHONE: 22441828, 22442234 FAX: 22465114 E-MAIL: [email protected] net

Date 11 October, 2006

SUCI supports North Korea's nuke test in self-defence and denounces
heinous US imperialist conspiracy to exterminate her socialist system
as well as Indian government's appeasing role

Extending full support to the nuclear test conducted by North Korea
on October 9, 2006 by giving due prior indication and ensuring no
radioactive fall-out, Shri Nihar Mukherjee, General Secretary, SUCI,
in course of a statement said that the socialist government there had
no other option but to carry out this test in order to confront the
sustained as well as escalated threat of the US imperialists and
their allies to subvert socialist system in that country either by
engineering counter-revolution from within or mounting external
aggression in the form of armed intervention and creating economic
blockade. US imperialists who persistently refused to sign non-
aggression pact with North Korea and thereby guaranteeing her
sovereignty and territorial integrity and instead encircled her with
naval armada of guided missiles, destroyers, bombers and fighter
squadrons, nuclear weapons and 30,000 troops stationed in South
Korea, are, emphatically stated Shri Mukherjee, solely and squarely
responsible for pushing North Korea to resort to this otherwise
avoidable course of action in self-defence.

Shri Mukherjee also severely condemned the attempted move on the part
of the US imperialists and their surrogates to impose economic
sanction on North Korea on the plea that by pulling off this nuke
test, North Korea has violated the process of implementing the Non-
proliferation treaty (NPT) and hence deserves to be meted out such
punitive treatment. The fact is, pointed out Shri Mukherjee, that
they themselves have been flouting with impunity this already-
shattered shop-worn treaty and cunningly suppressing the all
important question of global public opinion in favour of total
disarmament including complete elimination of nuclear armaments. He
also urged upon all democratic-minded, peace and freedom-loving
people of the world to come out and stand by the legitimate
inalienable right of the brave people of North Korea to defend their
socialist system and sovereignty against incessant intimidation and
provocation of the imperialist war-mongers and vendors of
international gangsterism.

Shri Mukherjee also strongly denounced the most shameful stand of the
Congress-led CPI(M), CPI-backed Indian Government of being in cahoots
with US imperialists and their accomplices on this issue in utter
disregard to the glorious anti-imperialist tradition of the Indian
people solely to appease the US imperialist brigands and death
merchants.

News by
(ASIT BHATTACHARYYA)
Office Secretary
Central Committee, SUCI

[socialistfuture]

beyond bombs,
beyond borders!

[socialistfuture]

that SUCI statement did raise some intresting points, it is true that world opinion is against nuclear arms and that north korea is surrounded and has not been aggressive. therefore there should be increased calls for america and other nations to disarm.
tho that is not in their strategic intrests - it is in the worlds.
I'd like to know Cuba and Venezuela et al's responce to this - anyone heard anything?

[RED VICTORY]

Venezuela condemned the test "as a matter of priciple" . They layed off in attacking Kim Jong Il or the DPRK directly. At the same time they condemned the U.S. for not disarming. Their condemnation was in essence against nuclear proliferation in General.

[( R )evolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 03:07 AM

Frantz Fanon noted the need for newly independent nations to build strong defenses and always be ready to use violence after liberation. This is excactly what the DPRK are doing.
newly independent? Unless im wrong, I thought N Korea has been around for 50years and longer. Also, doesnt North Korea have a huge military along with a military arsenal? If all of this is true then there is NO justification for developing a nuclear bomb.
Anyone with a good conscience knows and disagrees with nuclear weapons. Personally, Nuclear weapons are one of the most horrible weapons developed by man. Frankly I wont support any country (monarchy, communist, anarchist, democratic, or anything else) now or in the future that develops or has nuclear weapons.

Good Fucking Ridence to Nuclear Arms.
Iraq had plenty of bombs. I doubt any nation in todays age would use nuclear bombs (well the US is the only one to use them) If you dont want to get attacked by western nations then get nuclear bombs, that simple. I would rather have NK have nuclear bombs then it become a bomb field, and eventually another outpost for american imperalism.

[socialistfuture]

i think the other forum had it right, north korea should test socialism and spend money on its people.

too much money the world over is spent on arms, killing people on mass isnt helping the world - well world relations at least. that is a problem with competitive capitalism and patriotism - which enforces compitition rather than co-opperation and co existence. north korean people and chinese, american and japanses etc would have a lot in common - so would their governments - greedy liars and warmongering polits, economists and army ppl.

nukes only benefit the military - generals and power mad leaders. they wont help ppl suffering from poverty and other problems in north korea. most ppl in america and north korea dun want a war i would imagine. there should be sanctions against the arms industry!

[( R )evolution]

I do agree that the money NK has should be spent on the poor and hungry workers but look at the larger picture. North Korea is surronded by enemies. When the US invaded Iraq, Iraq vehmnetly denied having nuclear bombs. Did that matter? No. They will fabrict everything in order to paint the picture of what they want. By North Korea testing these nukes, it tells the US to fuck off and it is secures North Korea.

[socialistfuture]

in the short term the North Korean nation is able to deter a US military invasion, long term it will prob be started out and dun in economically. like iraq and cuba, the people will suffer from sanctions - kim will not.
they need class war in north korea, just like in the states.
there needs to be a way to erode all superpowers, not just the 'imperialist' ones. and empire is an empire - wether its nike, rupert murdoch and fox, bush and his familyline or any other, neither washington or bejing ~ anti capitalism and anti imperialism means fighting for workers rights, human rights and for a decent planet.

fight their war
fight their peace,
capitalism if not our feast... ehh tacky but uno what im trying to get at,
talk to unions and workers in north korea - its no holiday

[socialistfuture]

its about more than america telling countries what to do as well, its about the safety of earnby countries and the precident of nations having nuclear weaponary and what that might mean for future conflicts.

north korea has not come up with a way to bypass american hegemony, simply something to defend itself - defend its ruling class. nukes dont protect people, not long term - they are made for one thing - mass death. thats what happened to japan - people should of learned how horrible an stupid that was..... :(