comrades who are ignorant and damage the movement.

[R_P_A_S]

I swear some of this comrades are delusional!!! if you are an EXTREME ULTRA-LEFTIST i believe you should give your self a different title than that of "a communist"

It's embarassing the shit that fly out of this peoples mouth. How brainwashed they are.
I believe there should be a line drawn and we should identify the fact that we hate the capitalist system and all it stands for. not hate the united states people.

Some comrades support islamice extremist and go to the point of posting pictures of the planes hitting the trade towers to posting pictures of dead U.S. soldiers. and run around claiming communism.

This particular fool on an other website paredes around the DPRK Nuclear Test like it was some amazing world accomplishment for people!?!? He brags and post pictures of the "dear leader" and he tried to tell me that He is a true revolutionary and as the DPRK is truly socialist.

He even went as far as claiming to me that the USSR STILL EXIST! "why do you think they sold weapons to other socialist countries like venezuela?" Venezuela Socialist?????????

He goes as far as claiming that Vietnam is too socialist and that the USSR backs it up. I hope he was kidding but sadly he wasn't

some of this fools need to read and educate them selves. I think that their views are mainly based on defiance of the united states and even its people. they just want to contradict the system and be against it. which is fine! BUT not like this. NOT by being ignorant to the point you support some of this islamic extremist who even kill their own people with their "terrorism"
even worst that you think the USSR is still around and that Cuba and the DPRK are socialist paradises! :rolleyes:

[Leo]

R_P_A_S, I completely understand what you are angry about, but what you say really has nothing to do with "ultra-leftism". Ultra leftism is a specific term, actually orginating from the italian communist tradition of Amadeo Bordiga, with the name "ultra-left communism". It is used as a manifestation of sectarian today by all Stalinists and Trotskyists but in fact, it is the ultra-leftists who oppose things you are angry at.

[R_P_A_S]

well i didnt know the actual term existed!!! haha i just typed it up. apologize! but i hate how this ignorant self call communist think and believe this garbage.

[Raj Radical]

Yeah, what Leo was saying, Ultra-Leftism is actually oppossed to all you were describing.

I understand where you are coming from, comrade, the authoritarians get on your nerves after a while, especially the ones who justify religious terrorism and bolshevism as nessecary. Its emotionally draining to listen to....

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Raj [email protected] 11 2006, 09:05 PM
Yeah, what Leo was saying, Ultra-Leftism is actually oppossed to all you were describing.

I understand where you are coming from, comrade, the authoritarians get on your nerves after a while, especially the ones who justify religious terrorism and bolshevism as nessecary. Its emotionally draining to listen to....
what about them believing and being convinced that the USSR STILL EXIST and that Vietnam and Venezuela ARE socialist

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Oct 12 2006, 06:32 AM--> (R_P_A_S @ Oct 12 2006, 06:32 AM)
Raj [email protected] 11 2006, 09:05 PM
Yeah, what Leo was saying, Ultra-Leftism is actually oppossed to all you were describing.

I understand where you are coming from, comrade, the authoritarians get on your nerves after a while, especially the ones who justify religious terrorism and bolshevism as nessecary. Its emotionally draining to listen to....
what about them believing and being convinced that the USSR STILL EXIST and that Vietnam and Venezuela ARE socialist [/b]
The idea that the USSR still exists is just complete bullshit, its a weird ass way of thinking. Vietnam is "socialist" in the same sense that China is, which is to say that a "Communist Party" is in power, but the economic system of course has nothing to do with real socialism. It is just a market capitalist economy with a lot of government intervention. Venezuela is in a period of reform right now, Chavez is definitely on the left, but he isnt socialist. That view is not quite as delusional as the USSR/Vietnam ones.

[Marsella]

Really the biggest problem with Communism is its actual name. The stigma associated with the term will mean that in Western countries people will never want a Communist system because, to them, Communism=Dictatorship.

We should give ourselves a new name:

MARTOVISTS

MWAWHHAHWHAWH

[Lenin's Law]

I agree with what BreadBros stated and I do sympathesize with your plight comrade. However, unfortunately there are "kooks" and misinformed/delusional people in every movement, in every side of the political spectrum. That's just the way it goes. I would like to know how young this person is, because it may be that he/she is just going through some "rebellion" phase where he supports anything that is presumably against America. Anything that happens to a supposed "enemy" of America that is bad he turns into self-denial (such as the belief that the USSR still exists)

And he doesn't know what socialism means. But unfortunately that's fairly common. If you want and of course as long as that person is willing to listen, you might want to educate that person on what real socialism is (workers control of the MoP) and just focus on that one point. Once you get agreement about that, it's only a matter of time before the other delusions fall through.

I don't think labels like "ultra leftist" or "authoritarian" are appropriate, he's just a delusional psuedo-"leftist". He seems to have nothing more than knee-jerk reactions to any country that is the US doesn't like; I think it would be terribly inappropriate to make it seem that this person has a coherent political philosophy, it's all just emotion masquerading as being a "left wing rebel"

[Janus]

if you are an EXTREME ULTRA-LEFTIST i believe you should give your self a different title than that of "a communist"
It's gotten to the point where people are thinking of a new replacement term for communism.

Anyways, moved.

[Janus]

What theoretical topic are we supposed to discuss here?


if you are an EXTREME ULTRA-LEFTIST i believe you should give your self a different title than that of "a communist"
It's gotten to the point where people are thinking of a new replacement term for communism.

Anyways, moved.

[UndergroundConnexion]

I believe that they people who damage the movement the most are the people who support Stalin and Mao. They give a bad image to communism, and I'd say scare other people away...

[rouchambeau]

The people who are hurting the movement the most are liberals parading as communists. There are more of them and people actually take them seriously.

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 07:45 AM
Really the biggest problem with Communism is its actual name. The stigma associated with the term will mean that in Western countries people will never want a Communist system because, to them, Communism=Dictatorship.

We should give ourselves a new name:

MARTOVISTS

MWAWHHAHWHAWH
No way, thats so sketchy. You think people wont figure out the nomenclature have been changed and wonder why that is so? "Communism" will always be a dirty word to the bourgeois society, but workers will eventually realize that its the only way a free and just society can be reached, and probably wont give a crap what the ruling class has to say about it.

[Enragé]

Do you remember '36?
We went our seperate ways.
You fought for Stalin
I fought for freedom
You believe in authority
I believe in myself
I'm a molotov cocktail
You're Dom Perignon

[Lamanov]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 08:44 PM
well i didnt know the actual term existed!!! haha i just typed it up. apologize! but i hate how this ignorant self call communist think and believe this garbage.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm giving you a usefull advice: before you start calling any people from the all-left spectrum - and wider - "ignorant", be sure that you've at least learned proper terminology.

Who is what by label, actually, matters a great deal.

P.S.

"Ultra-Left" does not originate from Italians and Bordiga. I was first and foremost a pejorative term used by Lenin against Gorter and Pannekoek, later accepted by the Left Communist movement. I is most common to Council Communists and the French Ultra-Left (Ultra-Gauche), while "Italian tradition" is reffered to as the Communist Left.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by DJ-TC+Oct 12 2006, 09:54 PM--> (DJ-TC @ Oct 12 2006, 09:54 PM)
[email protected] 11 2006, 08:44 PM
well i didnt know the actual term existed!!! haha i just typed it up. apologize! but i hate how this ignorant self call communist think and believe this garbage.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm giving you a usefull advice: before you start calling any people from the all-left spectrum - and wider - "ignorant", be sure that you've at least learned proper terminology.

Who is what by label, actually, matters a great deal.

P.S.

"Ultra-Left" does not originate from Italians and Bordiga. I was first and foremost a pejorative term used by Lenin against Gorter and Pannekoek, later accepted by the Left Communist movement. I is most common to Council Communists and the French Ultra-Left (Ultra-Gauche), while "Italian tradition" is reffered to as the Communist Left. [/b]
im still learning. and im not going around saying I know it all and that im an expert

[Red October]

i know what you mean, man. i cant believe some people who call themselves actually support police states like north korea, china, and cuba. countries like that and the people here who support and romanticize them are doing much more damage than good for the movement.

[Jesus Christ!]

Yea even within this site the 9/11 posts were disgusting. Saying that it wasn't a tragedy. Saying it wasn't sad. I don't really want to be part of a society were the slaughter of 3,000 civilians isn't a tragedy. I'm sure someone reading this will say " WTF PALESTINIANS DIE ALL THE TIME" yes and that too is a tragedy, that in no way shows 9/11 to not be a tragedy.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ!@Oct 12 2006, 11:42 PM
Yea even within this site the 9/11 posts were disgusting. Saying that it wasn't a tragedy. Saying it wasn't sad. I don't really want to be part of a society were the slaughter of 3,000 civilians isn't a tragedy. I'm sure someone reading this will say " WTF PALESTINIANS DIE ALL THE TIME" yes and that too is a tragedy, that in no way shows 9/11 to not be a tragedy.
or they say something like.. "who cares they were a bunch of corporate cappies crummies who died at the WTC"

ok so maybe somewhere. but im not going to think is OK or justified for some religious nut wing to kill them. its not even revolutionary.

[bolshevik butcher]

What's with having a go at people doing solidarity work with Venezuela. While Venezuela isn't socialist at the moment, it is certianly heading in that direction. Chavez is the only world leader just now talking about socialism, quoting marx, engles, trotsky, lenin and luxemburg. It is the only country where the working class is expiriencing real control with support of the government in the form of workers assemblies. Events in Latin Amierca nad patiularly in Venezuela are inspirational in my opinion.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Red October [email protected] 12 2006, 05:24 PM
i know what you mean, man. i cant believe some people who call themselves actually support police states like north korea, china, and cuba. countries like that and the people here who support and romanticize them are doing much more damage than good for the movement.
So what, we should support the imperialist states breathing down their necks and eyeing their resources and people as expendable; exploitable? Or just ignore it? :rolleyes:

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

I swear some of this comrades are delusional!!! if you are an EXTREME ULTRA-LEFTIST i believe you should give your self a different title than that of "a communist"

wouldn't an extreme altra leftist be an anarchist?

[Janus]

wouldn't an extreme altra leftist be an anarchist?
An ultraleftist can be used to describe an anarchist but that is not always the case. It is more or less a pejorative term used by Leninists to describe anyone who are idealistic and demand too much. It's generally used to describe libertarian socialists whether they be Libertarian Marxists, autonomous Marxists, or anarchists.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Aeturnal [email protected] 15 2006, 06:29 PM

I swear some of this comrades are delusional!!! if you are an EXTREME ULTRA-LEFTIST i believe you should give your self a different title than that of "a communist"

wouldn't an extreme altra leftist be an anarchist?
we have already cleared that up