Unschooling

[Comrade-Z]

A controversial chapter in education: unschooling (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15029646/)

Readers react to "unschooling" (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15148804/)

I think some of the opposing responses are quite revealing:


I think it's great that if the child is interested in something, that the parent encourage that and help the child learn more (like learning about bugs in the backyard), but there so many other things that a child needs to be exposed to. What happens when the child gets a job and "doesn't feel like" working? I think these parents are doing a disservice to their children. (My emphasis)


Unreal! Besides kids getting no idea of how the real world works, they will be unfit to take directions. Structure is important in all children's lives. It teaches them original boundaries, and then they can later learn how to think outside the box. … Get real and be a parent instead of a buddy. (My emphasis)

In other words, parents are supposed to be dictators, not helpers.

This quote is taken from a response in favor of homeschooling, but I want to add it in here because it hits the nail right on the head:


The current school system … is set up to promote cookie-cutter kids, who are drones that work in factories...The public education system teaches children to just learn and do what they're told. I guess mass complacency and compliance is desirable to some people and governments.


I work in a juvenile office and see all types of people "homeschooling" their children. The social skills alone are horrible from most of the children. Most are not age/education equal. … Schools are for more than "book" learning. Learning to adapt to others and respect for everything around you is a huge part of education. (My emphasis)

Yeah, learning respect for "everything around you"...like police, bosses, governments, and other manifestations of authority, right?

From another response in support:


Of course the National Parent Teacher Association, the National Education Association and the National Association of Elementary School Principals oppose homeschooling and unschooling. It is a threat to them. It provides an alternative to public school that is healthy and happy for the students. Kids are motivated to learn until years of being told what to learn and when to learn it trains that out of them. Schools are not education models to be held with the highest esteem. Schools are conformity models, training kids instead to do what they are told when they are told to do it.

[bolshevik butcher]

It might be fine for the first few years of Primary (elementary) school, but how can you possibly expect a parent to have all the knowledge of several high school teachers. Or the facilities say to cary out science experiments, or teach several languages? This is just some ultraleft/isolationist pipe dream in my view, it couldnt really work enmasse.

[Marion]

Well, yeah, homeschooling can be problematic in terms of how it is set up and structured. Obviously learning should be seen as a social activity and it should have access to sufficient resources to allow people to undertake the learning they want to do and homeschooling often doesn't allow this. However, there's no reason why the above demands necessitate a school - Ivan Illich's idea of networks is one alternative.

[bolshevik butcher]

Fair enough. I support the democratisation of education, and possibly to an extent making it more informal. I would certianly support doing away with most formal examintaions.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Home schooling is shite. School is absolutely vital to social growth, not just academic. Mass home-schooling would lead to a generation of enlightened, socially retarded kids. You just don't develop and grow in the same way at home, simple as that.

-Alex

[Cryotank Screams]

On this subject I am torn, on the one hand you need public schools to teach children social skills, and interaction, and to make sure they learn the necessary material, on the other hand public schools are designed to instruct and domesticate the masses, and is not designed for the intellectual whom wants an unbiased education, and is often times a form of thought control.

My opinions on “unschooling,” is that it is to relaxed and will not educate someone properly.

[Comrade-Z]

It might be fine for the first few years of Primary (elementary) school, but how can you possibly expect a parent to have all the knowledge of several high school teachers. Or the facilities say to cary out science experiments, or teach several languages?

The teaching doesn't have to be done between individual parents and children. There can still be "schools", teaching collectives, more formal courses with competency tests at the end, etc. The point, though, is that it is voluntary. The pace and direction of learning is the child's perogative.


Home schooling is shite. School is absolutely vital to social growth, not just academic. Mass home-schooling would lead to a generation of enlightened, socially retarded kids. You just don't develop and grow in the same way at home, simple as that.

You seem to think that these kids who don't go to school are living in a social bubble. But don't kids have social interactions outside of school? Is there any reason why kids can't still play together? Is there any reason why they still can't go to discussions/teaching sessions/etc. together? You seem to be thinking of unschooling as strictly "homeschooling." But unschooling doesn't imply that at all. It can be conducted at home, at "schools," at libraries, at informal gatherings with teachers and other children, whatever. The point is, it makes the child become the ultimate decision-maker.

Besides, I went to public school for 13 years, and I'm rather anti-social--because of, rather than despite, going to school. The school environment is just plain awful for good social relationships--all competitive, full of cliques, and many other things that the school environment fosters.

[Red Heretic]

Yuck! "Unschooling" is a reformist excuse for making revolution and revolutionizing the school system to be radical and liberating.

[Lenin's Law]

Originally posted by Scarlet [email protected] 8 2006, 01:10 PM
On this subject I am torn, on the one hand you need public schools to teach children social skills, and interaction, and to make sure they learn the necessary material, on the other hand public schools are designed to instruct and domesticate the masses, and is not designed for the intellectual whom wants an unbiased education, and is often times a form of thought control.


But being taught by mom and dad is no guarantee that education will be "unbiased" or that it will prevent "thought control" I think an argument can be made that brainwashing and thought control might be more prevalent in home schooling since the child has much more respect and many more reasons to obey a parent and take what they say as a holy truth than some stranger that presents themselves as a teacher. Also the parent has obvious emotional attachment towards that child and is far more likely to want that child to give the "right" answers as opposed to a teacher that has no direct emotional stake in what the student does or does not believe in.


Not to mention of course that public schooling will provide essential social interaction and a window into the "real world" and the lives of other children. This could be especially useful for kids that have been brainwashed by religious fundamentalists or racists; having that child homeschooled will almost guarantee that child will continue to be a tool for what the parents think and their own agenda as they know no other alternative. At least a public school provides the chance for that child to see that there is more to life that the nice comfortable world the parents have provided for them.

[Lenin's Law]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 10:08 AM
Mass home-schooling would lead to a generation of enlightened, socially retarded kids.
Why "enlightened"? Do you really think that 1 parent can make up the diverse knowledge and unique perspectives that a dozen high school teachers all specializing in different fields can bring to the table? Not to mention all the parents who hold reactionary views whether than be in religion fundamentalism, racism, anti-socialist views, etc. And how will the child ever find out about dissenting from what the teacher says if that teacher is the parent? I'm not saying public schools right now promote dissent or anything like that because they don't; BUT I will argue that there is far more room for it in a public school where a student can ask another teacher or a fellow classmate if what so-and-so says made sense and I think far easier to challenge someone who you don't know/don't care about that much as opposed to challenging and potentially upsetting a parent whom your very survival depends on.

I think the real answer to this for revolutionaries is to radically change the school system with progressive ideas that promote alternative ways of educating children, allow more freedom for the students to choose the subjects and rate they want to learn at, and increasing the participation and power of students in the classroom and in the school in general.

For what lesson are we really giving our children if we tell them to stay home and isolate yourself from the rest of the world as it is mean and nasty and one in which you want no part of? The school system is a reflection of the society and the system we live under in many respects, you don't like what you see? Work to change it.

That is maybe the most powerful lesson we can teach our young people; don't hide from injustice and what is wrong in the world: confront it and change it.

[piet11111]

i think its taking it a step too far.

its important that children have a genuine desire to learn about specific topics but this aproach to me atleast seems to disregard certain minimal standards that children of a certain age should be uphold to.
standards such as the ability to read , social skills , and some mathematics.

however its a very good thing that they are trying to get rid of the cookie-cutter education we recieved.
personally i feel my education has been sabotaged by forcing me to follow classes i had absolutely no interest in.
had i been able to follow my interests i might have had some job instead of being a burned out person.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Collective education is essential to a communist society. Assuming education is effective (unlike it is in many areas today), homeschooling should be unnecessary and discouraged. Furthermore, collective child-rearing would also be beneficial. Anything that creates a sense of community is good for a communist society.

[Comrade-Z]

But being taught by mom and dad is no guarantee that education will be "unbiased" or that it will prevent "thought control" I think an argument can be made that brainwashing and thought control might be more prevalent in home schooling since the child has much more respect and many more reasons to obey a parent and take what they say as a holy truth than some stranger that presents themselves as a teacher.

Once again, NOT home-schooling, but UNSCHOOLING, which can be accomplished in a number of ways, such through homeschooling, traditional non-compulsory school attendance, teaching collectives, library tutoring groups, etc.


Collective education is essential to a communist society. Assuming education is effective (unlike it is in many areas today), homeschooling should be unnecessary and discouraged.

Right, I would think the tendency would definitely be towards (non-compulsory) collective education because:
1. There's more interaction with others, and
2. It's more resource efficient.

But the point is that it should be non-compulsory--the child should decide what study groups to attend, which books to read, etc.


I think the real answer to this for revolutionaries is to radically change the school system with progressive ideas that promote alternative ways of educating children, allow more freedom for the students to choose the subjects and rate they want to learn at, and increasing the participation and power of students in the classroom and in the school in general.

I totally agree with that, except I would go one step further and add this proviso: school should be non-compulsory!!! Attending "progressive" schools shouldn't even be compulsory, if the children deem that they have better uses for their time.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by Lenin's [email protected] 9 2006, 02:07 AM
But being taught by mom and dad is no guarantee that education will be "unbiased" or that it will prevent "thought control" I think an argument can be made that brainwashing and thought control might be more prevalent in home schooling since the child has much more respect and many more reasons to obey a parent and take what they say as a holy truth than some stranger that presents themselves as a teacher. Also the parent has obvious emotional attachment towards that child and is far more likely to want that child to give the "right" answers as opposed to a teacher that has no direct emotional stake in what the student does or does not believe in.


Not to mention of course that public schooling will provide essential social interaction and a window into the "real world" and the lives of other children. This could be especially useful for kids that have been brainwashed by religious fundamentalists or racists; having that child homeschooled will almost guarantee that child will continue to be a tool for what the parents think and their own agenda as they know no other alternative. At least a public school provides the chance for that child to see that there is more to life that the nice comfortable world the parents have provided for them.
Exactly, and I agree, I never said that home schooling would be unbiased or be free from thought control, or better than public schools, I was simply giving a brief description of problems I see in both institutions.

[anarchist_utopia]

Well, I think a child should go to school, in most situations, because it will help them adapt to the world around them. Of course, though, there are problems in schools. But I agree that children need structure in their lives, if they don't they will be left entering the working environment without being able to work with other people. After all, working in most cases involves other people. So of course it would most likely benefit the student to be in school and be with other students and learn properly. And besides, once a student enters high school, a parent couldn't possibly teach them everything they need to know because the things we learn change drastically throughout the years. Another thought is that a parent might teach things that are unethical and wrong. A teacher in a school could not do that.

[Comrade-Z]

...certain minimal standards that children of a certain age should be uphold to.
standards such as the ability to read , social skills , and some mathematics.

And kids need compulsory education to make sure they learn this stuff?


Well, I think a child should go to school, in most situations, because it will help them adapt to the world around them.

Do we want people who are good at "adapting to the world around them"? Specifically, this world? Or do we want kids who possess a liberated desire to create their own world?


But I agree that children need structure in their lives, if they don't they will be left entering the working environment without being able to work with other people.

How do you come to this conclusion? I think it makes no sense at all.


So of course it would most likely benefit the student to be in school and be with other students and learn properly.

Would this always be the case? Why don't you just let the goddamn kid decide?

And what do you mean by "learn properly"?


And besides, once a student enters high school, a parent couldn't possibly teach them everything they need to know because the things we learn change drastically throughout the years.

Correct. That's why we will have (non-compulsory) teaching groups where students can sign up to attend certain "classes."


Another thought is that a parent might teach things that are unethical and wrong.

Which is why schooling should not be compulsory, regardless of whether it is homeschooling or regular schooling. If the kid detects that he/she is being fed a load of bullshit, he/she should be able to leave without repercussions.


A teacher in a school could not do that.

You've got to be kidding me.

[RedKnight]

I am able to resond from personal experience, as my mother homeschooled me after third grade. As far as socialisation goes, I've made more friends outside of school. I've met other people my age around the block. And I was very popular because most felt that it was cool that I was able to study on my own, without any adults dictating and regulating things. Also, like Comrade-Z stated, there are cliques at public schools. I for one was glad to be free of bullys and or oppressive adults. The only down sides from a Communist standpoint is that certain curriculum have a specific political/theological bias. The first curriculum I had was "Christian Liberty Academy", which is very Right-wing. There books were always putting down Communism and even liberalism, while promoting calvinism and the "protestant work ethic". For economics I had to read, "Economics in one lesson", which is a simplistic laissez faire propaganda. So the only way that I was able to get any differing viewpoints was from my local public library. Also sometimes white supremacists and or cults will homeschool there children, in order to indoctrinate and prevent them from any outside influences.Remember "Prussian Blue" were homeschooled for a time. What I feel needs to be done is to create study groups outside of the state run schools for people from all educational systems. There would be volunteer tutors giving one on one assistance. Also students could help each other study. That way hopefuly no one will fall behind academicl. Oh, and about graduation. I was able to earn my High School diploma through a correspondance course. And there are also GED programs as well. So in conclusion until the current public schools are improved, we must work outside them with supplemental assistance. Also we should create youth outreaches to introduce students, in and outside the state schools, to our ideas. If the evangelicals can do it, we can't we?