Nazis in Israel

[Darth Revan]

http://www.pogrom.org.il/eng_articles.php?art_id=7
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/6-24-2003-42128.asp
http://www.israelnn.com/article.php3?id=4133
WTF WTF

[LoneRed]

We already know there are Nazis it's called the Zionist state of Israel. oh wait.. I mean... but no, this is fucked up, but really the Israeli state is just as fucked up, while innocent jews are stuck in the middle of this fascism, and imperialism of "their" country

[An archist]

Nazi jews?
the good thing is they'll get beaten up by other nazis

[RNK]

Wow. It's kind of like a Nazi civil war going on there. You have the brutally nationalistic Israeli state on the one hand, and Neo-Nazis on the other. This only supports my belief that that entire area should be scooped out of the earth with a gigantic shovel, and dumped on Antarctica.

[Ian]

New Swabia.

[EwokUtopia]

Meh, it doesnt surprise me, youll find nazi dumbfucks wherever jingoism is rampant. And in Israel, its hella rampant. There is also the NSJAP to worry about, and Im sure a tonne of others. Youd be surprised how stretchable Nazi idealogy is, its not so much about hating the jews as it is about hating the other. Substitute whatever you want, and you can have nazi's in whoever you want. For instance, we have the Christian Falangists, almost identicle to Nazi's but with Religious hatred instead of Racial hatred. Same result, if they got power, Muslims would be killed in a new holocaust. Nazism is Nazism, whoever says it. German Nazism is as bad as Israeli or Japanese or American or whatever, its the same thing, different nationalistic themes.

fuck it just the same.

[Nakam43]

German Nazism is as bad as Israeli or Japanese or American or whatever, its the same thing, different nationalistic themes.

So Israelis are anti-semitic? You should reflect that Nazism is always connected with eliminatory anti-semitism. You can critizise Israel's policies without comparisions to nazism!

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 01:41 am
Same result, if they got power, Muslims would be killed in a new holocaust
What are you talking about?

If another European Fascist regime was created (extremely unlikely) it would not be based on anti-Islamism as Islam is too strong an organised political force, with it's own nations (Iran, etc), with a tradition of violent resistance to Western attempts to shape or attack it in any way.

Plus, an insseperable component of Nazism is anti-semitism - you can't start applying the term willy-nilly to anyone who has authoritarian or racist views as this will utterly empty the description of all meaning.

[An archist]

Originally posted by Permanent Revolution+November 27, 2006 04:32 pm--> (Permanent Revolution @ November 27, 2006 04:32 pm)
[email protected] 11, 2006 01:41 am
Same result, if they got power, Muslims would be killed in a new holocaust
What are you talking about?

If another European Fascist regime was created (extremely unlikely) it would not be based on anti-Islamism as Islam is too strong an organised political force, with it's own nations (Iran, etc), with a tradition of violent resistance to Western attempts to shape or attack it in any way.

Plus, an insseperable component of Nazism is anti-semitism - you can't start applying the term willy-nilly to anyone who has authoritarian or racist views as this will utterly empty the description of all meaning. [/b]
Look around you in Europe, every succesfull fascist party is based on anti-Islamist feelings.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by An archist+November 27, 2006 02:36 pm--> (An archist @ November 27, 2006 02:36 pm)
Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 27, 2006 04:32 pm

[email protected] 11, 2006 01:41 am
Same result, if they got power, Muslims would be killed in a new holocaust
What are you talking about?

If another European Fascist regime was created (extremely unlikely) it would not be based on anti-Islamism as Islam is too strong an organised political force, with it's own nations (Iran, etc), with a tradition of violent resistance to Western attempts to shape or attack it in any way.

Plus, an insseperable component of Nazism is anti-semitism - you can't start applying the term willy-nilly to anyone who has authoritarian or racist views as this will utterly empty the description of all meaning.
Look around you in Europe, every succesfull fascist party is based on anti-Islamist feelings. [/b]
Anti-immigrant, really.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by An archist+November 27, 2006 08:36 pm--> (An archist @ November 27, 2006 08:36 pm)
Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 27, 2006 04:32 pm

[email protected] 11, 2006 01:41 am
Same result, if they got power, Muslims would be killed in a new holocaust
What are you talking about?

If another European Fascist regime was created (extremely unlikely) it would not be based on anti-Islamism as Islam is too strong an organised political force, with it's own nations (Iran, etc), with a tradition of violent resistance to Western attempts to shape or attack it in any way.

Plus, an insseperable component of Nazism is anti-semitism - you can't start applying the term willy-nilly to anyone who has authoritarian or racist views as this will utterly empty the description of all meaning.
Look around you in Europe, every succesfull fascist party is based on anti-Islamist feelings. [/b]
Populism. Fascists if they gained power through electoral means would in no way threaten Islam as it is in fact just a similiar reactionary, anti-working class ideology.

Look at Hitler, he was happy to ally with the Shah at one point. Fascism is based on capitalist reaction and thus will always put economic considerations ahead of "ideological" (I dislike even considering Fascism as an actual political ideology) considerations.

[Zero]

It's much easier to chuck it in the Totalitarian trashcan with Monarchism, Oligarchy, and all the rest of that nonsense.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 09:55 am
So Israelis are anti-semitic? You should reflect that Nazism is always connected with eliminatory anti-semitism. You can critizise the Israel's policies without comparisions to nazism!
I suggest you scroll up and check the topic at hand, which is neo-nazi skinhead groups in Israel, they do exist. I wouldnt say Israeli's are antisemitic, or racist, or even bad unless I had personally met each and every one of them, and I know for a fact that there are some great Israeli's, but the basis of the state of Israel is colonialism and ethno-religious nationalism, and so I oppose the entity that is Israel ferverently, that should never be misconstrued to saying I hate Israeli people. But, there are plenty of racist Israeli's who hate Arabs. Incidentally, Arabs are a Semitic people, so one could (likely rather unsuccesfully) push to call organizations such as the JDL to be Anti-Semites. Failing at this, well just call them racist bastards and knock them down just the same.


If another European Fascist regime was created (extremely unlikely) it would not be based on anti-Islamism as Islam is too strong an organised political force, with it's own nations (Iran, etc), with a tradition of violent resistance to Western attempts to shape or attack it in any way.

And you dont think they could attack Muslims within the borders of, say, Le Penn's France without Iran launching its ficticious nuclear arsenal at Paris?


Plus, an insseperable component of Nazism is anti-semitism - you can't start applying the term willy-nilly to anyone who has authoritarian or racist views as this will utterly empty the description of all meaning.

People trump up Nazi anti-semitism to the point where one could think that the Jews were the only people targetted. Dont get me wrong, the Nazi's were anti-semitic bastards, but anti-semitism was just one vestige of their hatred. too often are the Romani, Slavs, Handicapped, Communists, Blacks (there were about 400 in the Rhineland if memory serves me right) and others forgotten, even though they make up an additional 6-7 million bodies in the Holocaust. Anti-Semitism is a form of scapegoating that is necissary for Nazism, but that does not mean that it necisarrily has to be Jews. An Israeli Nazi could easily substitute "Jew" for "Muslim" and basically do the samje thing with the same effect. Good luck getting many in Tel Aviv to flock to your cause, but you could make up a Jewish Nazism easily enough in theory. But the nazi's of Israel are small and (unsurprisingly) unpopular. There are different, more dangerous vestiges of Jingoism in that nation for us to worry about.

[bcbm]

You could certainly have Jewish Fascism, but not Jewish Nazism... unless you found a lot of people who hate themselves?

[Nakam43]

but the basis of the state of Israel is colonialism and ethno-religious nationalism, and so I oppose the entity that is Israel ferverently, that should never be misconstrued to saying I hate Israeli people.

Palestinian nationalism is also just blood-and-soil crap!

http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part5.html
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part7.html


Incidentally, Arabs are a Semitic people, so one could (likely rather unsuccesfully) push to call organizations such as the JDL to be Anti-Semites.

You should read this:


In fact, the term antisemitism has historically referred to prejudice towards Jews alone, and this was the only use of the word for more than a century. It does not traditionally refer to prejudice toward other people who speak Semitic languages (e.g. Arabs or Assyrians). Bernard Lewis, Professor of Near Eastern Studies Emeritus at Princeton University, says that "Antisemitism has never anywhere been concerned with anyone but Jews."[9] Yehuda Bauer articulated this view in his writings and lectures: (the term) "Antisemitism, especially in its hyphenated spelling, is inane nonsense, because there is no Semitism that you can be anti to."[10][11]

In recent decades some groups have argued that the term should be extended to include prejudice against Arabs or Anti-Arabism, in the context of answering accusations of Arab antisemitism; further, some, including the Islamic Association of Palestine, have argued that this implies that Arabs cannot, by definition, be antisemitic. The argument for such an extension of meaning comes from the claim that since the Semitic language family includes Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic languages and the historical term "Semite" refers to all those who consider themselves descendants of the Biblical Shem, "anti-Semitism" should be likewise inclusive. However, this usage is not generally accepted.

Source: Wikipedia

[Comrade Marcel]

Nakam43: the Pro-Israel "Palestinian Media Watch" is like a supremely tabloidish Zionist version of CNN, only with extra lies and misrepresentation. I would suggest it is a racist and fascist cite and ask that you reconsider whether or not a communist would post such crap in an anti-fascist forum.

[Nakam43]

Nakam43: the Pro-Israel "Palestinian Media Watch" is like a supremely tabloidish Zionist version of CNN, only with extra lies and misrepresentation. I would suggest it is a racist and fascist cite and ask that you reconsider whether or not a communist would post such crap in an anti-fascist forum.

1. Which lies and misinterpretation?
2. Why is the PMW "racist" and "fascist"?

[Nakam43]

A very good article on Arab and Iranian nationalisms from the Monthly Review:

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/aam201106.html

An excerpt:

Reflections on Arab and Iranian Ultra-Nationalism
by Arshin Adib-Moghaddam

Critical students of ethnically coded nationalism would agree: propagating the glory of "our" race or culture almost always entails the suppression of equal status for the race or culture that is represented as its other. West Asia is no exception. Iranian and Arab identity politics thwarted, perverted, and dismembered communitarian thinking for long periods in the twentieth century. Today, some of the insidious legacies of ultra-nationalistic thinking are being resurrected in Iran, Iraq, and the rest of West Asia, to the detriment of symbiotic relations among the peoples of the region.

True, Iranian nationalism was at its nadir during the days of revolutionary exaltation because it was immediately linked to the excesses of the Pahlavi dynasty. But the nationalist mummy has returned in a new disguise. For some acolytes of Iran's Persian utopia, it functions as a weapon against the message and symbolism of Islamic communitarianism which is enshrined in Iran's constitution. For others, including President Ahmadinejad, it is an expedient shortcut to gain support of the resurgent bourgeoisie of Iranian society. Chauvinism against Arabs continues to guide the thinking of some Iranian commentators, especially in the Diaspora. The latent powers of deeply internalized ideological constructs, it seems, do not disappear upon the demise of states based on them. "Persianism" nurtured by the Pahlavis has survived the internationalist momentum triggered by the Islamic revolution in 1979.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 06:55 pm

Nakam43: the Pro-Israel "Palestinian Media Watch" is like a supremely tabloidish Zionist version of CNN, only with extra lies and misrepresentation. I would suggest it is a racist and fascist cite and ask that you reconsider whether or not a communist would post such crap in an anti-fascist forum.

1. Which lies and misinterpretation?

Everything they say or do.


2. Why is the PMW "racist" and "fascist"?

Because they try to portray the Palestinians as "barbarians", "prmitives" and "evils". They promote a fascist media agenda and the agenda of a fascistic state.

[Comrade Marcel]

You'll notice the monthly review's prospective on nationalism is a lot different from PMW's pro-imperialist prospective. Not to mention PMW's own support of Zionist supremacy.

But what either of the two have to do with these strange nazi-like organizations in Israel you haven't explained.

[Nakam43]

Everything they say or do.

What a ridiculous explanation!


Because they try to portray the Palestinians as "barbarians", "prmitives" and "evils". They promote a fascist media agenda and the agenda of a fascistic state.

An extremely poor reason too. Israel's (brutal) policies are the operations of a normal capitalist state with the normal racism of capitalist states. You should reflect that there is a qualitative difference between fascism/nazism and (imperialist) geostrategical interests of Israel. If you compare nazism with zionism you relativate the singular synthesis of racism, anti-semitism, euthanasia, colonialism and imperialism that culminated in Auschwitz and other concentration and extermination camps just like all the scum of holocaust deniers and revisionists!

These anti-semitic, clerical FASCISTS who portray Jews as the "root of all evil" and oppose every form of social emancipation (especially of homosexuals and women) are a real problem too:

http://www.pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_MudyrisMay13.asx
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=51

By the way - if you try to understand or support religious fanatics like Hezbullah and Hamas which shoot on striking workers you can not be a communist!

[EwokUtopia]

Looks like weve found a Zionist sympathizer.

Nobody is defending the religious fanatic element of Palestine, but that is just one element, which, if you count the bodies, is far less dangerous than the fanatical element of Israel or the US. You are equating the people of Palestine with one radical Islamic televangelist. This is a common tactic of zionism, to say that the Palestinians are all religious fanatics and enemies of democracy while ignoring the fact that Israel was set up on a racist colonial adventure based on some half assed religious motiffs. Palestine was not formed this way, Palestinians are linguistically Arabs, but ethnically a mish-mash of all the peoples who have lived in Palestine for the last 200 years IE- Canaanites, Philistines, Hebrews, Samaritans, Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Arabs, Turks, Mongols, Crusaders, and so forth. Israel on the other hand is a fabricated state where a wide array of culturally and linguistically different people from all over Europe and the Near East were brought to and told it was their land promised to them by God. Then begin the blood-libels, accusing Palestine of "terrorism", savageness and barbarity with propaganda campaigns that your posts indicate you are fluent in.

You will find dickheads in every country, Palestine is no exception, but when you define a people by the actions of their dickheads, you are just falling in with racist propaganda.

[Nakam43]

Nobody is defending the religious fanatic element of Palestine, but that is just one element, which, if you count the bodies, is far less dangerous than the fanatical element of Israel or the US. You are equating the people of Palestine with one radical Islamic televangelist. This is a common tactic of zionism, to say that the Palestinians are all religious fanatics and enemies of democracy while ignoring the fact that Israel was set up on a racist colonial adventure based on some half assed religious motiffs.

No it is exacly the same fucking stupid nationalist farce. The problem is not one singular tv-preacher but the fact that such a version of anti-semitic propaganda that is comparable to the german "Stürmer" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_St%C3%BCrmer) gets spread.
Where did I say that all Palestinians are religious fanatics and anti-semites by descent? But you should not forget that a majority of the population has elected Hamas. Zionism is not colonialism because early jewish settlers bought the land while the British just took it!

[/QUOTE]Palestine was not formed this way, Palestinians are linguistically Arabs, but ethnically a mish-mash of all the peoples who have lived in Palestine for the last 200 years IE- Canaanites, Philistines, Hebrews, Samaritans, Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Arabs, Turks, Mongols, Crusaders, and so forth. Israel on the other hand is a fabricated state where a wide array of culturally and linguistically different people from all over Europe and the Near East were brought to and told it was their land promised to them by God.[/QUOTE]

You are constructing an identity of an "organically grown" Palestinian people and a artificial "overcivilized" construct of a jewish state. What a kitschy, "revolutionary" romantic crap... You do not seem to percept the conflict as a REAL conflict between nationalisms because you instrumentalize Israel and Palestine for the projections of a specific geopolitical weltanschauung.


Looks like weve found a Zionist sympathizer.

"When people criticize Zionists, they often mean Jews, You are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

It's a matter of complete indifference to me but you seem to have found the "Jew" of all the states.

[Nakam43]

Then begin the blood-libels, accusing Palestine of "terrorism", savageness and barbarity with propaganda campaigns that your posts indicate you are fluent in.

http://lysis.blogsport.de/smilies/yahoo_rotfl.gif

Better read this article to get some basis knowledge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel_against_Jews

To revise your dogmatic positions: http://www.left-wing.net/index.htm

[EwokUtopia]

No it is exacly the same fucking stupid nationalist farce. The problem is not one singular tv-preacher but the fact that such a version of anti-semitic propaganda that is comparable to the german "Stürmer" gets spread.
Where did I say that all Palestinians are religious fanatics and anti-semites by descent? But you should not forget that a majority of the population has elected Hamas. Zionism is not colonialism because early jewish settlers bought the land while the British just took it!

You implied that Palestinians are all fanatics by reffering to them solely with your zionist propaganda rubbish. If you think otherwise, you still have to demonstrate this to me. And I thought that you Israeli advocates where all gung-ho about your vision of Democracy (IE elected oligarchy), so why do you criticize another people for democratically electing a party you dont like? Are you "undemocratic"?

Yadda Yadda Yadda, antisemitic media? I think not, if there is contempt for the Jews in Palestine, it is not due to Anti-Semitism in the traditional European sense because the Jews are no longer the powerless underdogs, but are the ones at advantage. It isnt right to despise an ethnic group, but a Palestinian with aversions to Jews is far more comparable to hostility towards whites in South Africa than it is to Nazi Anti-Semitism

I dont support Hamas, but I can see why Palestine would elect them, they are pragmatists who have strong beliefs and strong actions, when you are forced from your land and into poverty, you would look for people like these too. Besides, Hamas is hardly as bad as racist Israeli parties, even mainstream ones like Likud. But I will agree that the Palestinians can do much better than Hamas, the PFLP for instance is a good party that just needs more support to become a major player in Palestine.

The British had no right to sell the land, that wasnt theirs. Besides, most of the land that comprises "Israel" was not bought, but stolen during Al-Nakba. lets not forget the illegal occupations and settlements that continue to this very minitue to steal more and more land from Palestine.


You are constructing an identity of an "organically grown" Palestinian people and a artificial "overcivilized" construct of a jewish state. What a kitschy, "revolutionary" romantic crap... You do not seem to percept the conflict as a REAL conflict between nationalisms because you instrumentalize Israel and Palestine for the projections of a specific geopolitical weltanschauung.

http://racetraitor.org/sabra2.html

And you seem to cling to this idea that Israel is inevitably more civilized and reasonable than the Palestinians, despite the fact that the greatest number of civilians killed in the conflict has been Palestinians and that they are a people forced from their land and into poverty to make room for an afluent Jewish state. This is what we call a grab for Lebensraum, if we must hurl German terms at one another.


"When people criticize Zionists, they often mean Jews, You are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

It's a matter of complete indifference to me but you seem to have found the "Jew" of all the states.

"the Zionist argument to justify israel's present Occupation of arab Palestine has no intelligent or legal basis in history." --Malcolm X

And here we have the inevitable accusation of anti-Semitism that Zionists allways pull out during an arguement. http://dc.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/2/large/anti_semitism_4.jpg
Opposition to Zionism is no more Anti-Semitism than opposition to Aparthied is hatred of Whites. I do not hate Jews or Israeli's. I do hate the political manifestations of Zionism which lead to the occupation and oppression of Palestine. The Jews have every right to live in Palestine or anywhere else for that matter. They have NO right to deny that right to anybody else, much less the people who lived in Palestine before the Zionists waltzed in uninvited some 75 years ago. Opposition to Israel is not opposition to Jews, this would be the opposite of what we want to accomplish, any Anti-Zionist (and dont bring neo-nazi's into this, they dont understand what zionism is, its just a convenient term for them, they are NOT anti-zionists, merely anti-semites) will tell you that Israel and the Jews are NOT synonymous. To hate Jews because you hate the policies of Israel is to think that the two are one in the same, which they are NOT. Indeed, many of the most outspoken opponants of Zionism I have met are Jews themselves.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2006 01:16 am
http://lysis.blogsport.de/smilies/yahoo_rotfl.gif

Better read this article to get some basis knowledge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel_against_Jews

To revise your dogmatic positions: http://www.left-wing.net/index.htm
Fine then, Terror Libel, savvy?

The second site you sent seems good enough, As long as it does not advocate a state based on Ethnic or Religious grounds, I think I should much agree with them.

[Nakam43]

so why do you criticize another people for democratically electing a party you dont like? Are you "undemocratic"?

As a council communist I am not interested in any elections. I leave this crap for democracy-idealistic stalin-trotzkyist-maoist-kimyongill-ist ideologues.

And of course Hamas has nothing to do with that.....


The death toll both military and civilians of the entire conflict in 2000-2006 is estimated to be 3,651 Palestinians and 1,007 Israelis,[2] although this number is criticized by some sources for not differentiating between combatants and civilians.[3] During the conflict from September 2000 to January 2004, 36.2% of Palestinians killed were non-combatants caught in crossfire, while 77.6% of Israelis killed were non-combatants who died in bombings or sniper fire.[4] Of the Palestinian victims, at least 215 were killed by fellow Palestinians, 118 of them on suspicion of collaboration with Israel. 63 foreign citizens were killed (53 by Palestinians, and 10 by Israeli security forces).


Besides, Hamas is hardly as bad as racist Israeli parties, even mainstream ones like Likud.

How stupid to make a hierarchy of racisms! Anti-arab racism should be worth than islamized anti-semitism?


The British had no right to sell the land, that wasnt theirs.

You seem not to have read much about the conflict's history except trotzkyist propaganda. Jews bought the land in big parts over-expensive from diverse Arab owners.


This is what we call a grab for Lebensraum, if we must hurl German terms at one another.

Nice that you also described the interests of the Palestinian Volksgemeinschaft!

[EwokUtopia]

How stupid to make a hierarchy of racisms! Anti-arab racism should be worth than islamized anti-semitism?

Yes, well, a racism with the backings of a highly developped capitalist exploiter country with huge financial and military ties with the worlds only superpower, as well as having a large and highly advanced military with hundreds of nuclear weapons at their disposal is quite a bit worse than racism coming from a beaten down, exploited, largely poor and pissed off group undergoing a forced diaspora. Would you not agree?


You seem not to have read much about the conflict's history except trotzkyist propaganda. Jews bought the land in big parts over-expensive from diverse Arab owners.

Do you mean to tell me that all this hubbub of a war in 1948 that ended with all but about 10% of the Arab populace being forced from the borders of a religiously based nation is a big Trotskyist lie??? Well Golly&#33; Those Trots seem to have their thumbs in everything nowadays. I suppose it was the Khmer Rouge who made up the Six Days war and the lie of the occupation of the rest of Palestine... <_<


Nice that you also described the interests of the Palestinian Volksgemeinschaft&#33;

Honestly, lay off the German a bit. If we werent in a discussion that was origionally about Skinheads in Israel , and it wasnt stupid, I would invoke Godwins Law on your ass.


As a council communist...

What kind of communist goes out of their way to defend a colonial settler state founded on Ethno-Religious chauvanism with huge streaks of jingoism and neoconservatism?

[Comrade Marcel]

Nakam: you&#39;ll do yourself a favour to notice I never compared Israel to the Nazis. I simply refered to Israel as imeprialist and fascistic. I think I have always noted that Israel only stole it&#39;s apartheid like tactics from Kanada anyways.

The "nazis" in Israel which this thread was about are obviously a completely different issue, one that might make an interesting psychological study.

[Nakam43]

I simply refered to Israel as imeprialist and fascistic.

As Iran&#33;

edit:


If we werent in a discussion that was origionally about Skinheads in Israel , and it wasnt stupid, I would invoke Godwins Law on your ass.

Look at the second text of this thread&#33; This Godwin-comedian does not seem to know that every discussion on Israel s.t.a.r.t.s with a (from an antifascist point of view inacceptable) cretinous comparision between Israel and Nazi Germany&#33;:


LoneRed wrote
We already know there are Nazis it&#39;s called the Zionist state of Israel.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2006 03:35 am
As Iran&#33;
Haha, difference being Israel bullies its neighbours and the origional inhabitants of its land. Iran is simply a theocratic disaster which will fix itself soon enough, as long as no western Imperialist fucks like Israel or the US go around playing the cowboy. Israel&#39;s fear of Iran is absurd. Iran doesnt have nuclear weapons, and all it wants with its nuclear program is to be at a state where it can make them within 6 months. Pretty much every developed/semi-developed country is at that state of nuclear progress, and it is not a violation of international law to acheive that. Besides, Irans prime concern is not Israel, but Pakistan. That is who it would arm itself against. This "world without zionism" hype thats going around is trumped up rhetoric meant to induce fear of Iran which, I fear, is the preliminary for a justification for invasion.

[Comrade Marcel]

What?

Whether or not Iran would be considered imperialist is another debate I guess. I personally doubt it, since I don&#39;t think it has even developed modern capitalism yet. I guess it depends if you are going by the modern Leninist definition of imperialism or a more lose all-encompassing one like Parenti.

The point is Israel is certainly the imperialist power in that region, while the U&#036; is the imperialist power in the world. Israel uses extreme fascistic tactics to supress the Palestinian people, it&#39;s a colonized land and there is absolutely no tolerating that. Even if the Palestinians are as brutal and prejudice as you seem to want them to be, Israel is still wrong because they shouldn&#39;t even be there in the first place.