Bush signs Mexican fence bill

[Iseult_]

Now we need to go after employers.

[Janus]

It's technically a homeland security bill.

Here's an article about it:


Originally posted by AP News
President Bush on Wednesday signed a homeland security bill that includes an overhaul of the Federal Emergency Management Agency and $1.2 billion for fencing along the U.S.-Mexico border to stem illegal immigration.

Standing before a mountainous backdrop in Arizona, a state that has been the center of much debate over secure borders, Bush signed into law a $35 billion homeland security spending bill that could bring hundreds of miles of fencing to the busiest illegal entry point on the U.S.-Mexican border.

Bush said enforcement alone will not stop illegal immigration, and urged Congress to pass his guest worker program to legally bring in new foreign workers and give some of the country's estimated 11 million illegal immigrants a shot at U.S. citizenship.

"The funds that Congress has appropriated are critical for our efforts to secure this border and enforce our laws, yet we must also recognize that enforcement alone is not going to work," Bush said at the bill-signing ceremony tucked into his three-day campaign fundraising trip to the West. "We need comprehensive reform that provides a legal way for people to work here on a temporary basis."

Among other things, Bush said the homeland security funding bill deploys nuclear detection equipment to points of entry, raises safety security standards at chemical plants, provides better tools to enforce immigration laws and provides vehicle barriers, lighting and infrared cameras to help catch illegals trying to cross the border.

"It's what the people in this country want," Bush said. "They want to know that we are modernizing the border so we can better secure the border."

Outgoing Mexican President Vicente Fox, who has spent his six-year term lobbying for a new guest worker program and an amnesty for the millions of Mexicans working illegally in the United States, has called the barrier "shameful." He compares it to the Berlin Wall.

Some Democrats criticized the homeland security spending bill as too meager.

Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., a senior member of the House Homeland Security Committee, said the homeland security spending bill does not improve screening of cargo carried on passenger planes, does not provide money to buy and install advanced explosive-detection equipment and does not include strong enough security requirements to protect against a terrorist attack on chemical plants.

"There are nightclubs in New York City that are harder to get into than some of our chemical plants," Markey said.

Bush signs homeland security bill (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061004/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_homeland_security_bill;_ylt=AkTK8rhRWUo9_uf1l b8g19es0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-)

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 11:16 PM
Now we need to go after employers.
What do u mean by this? I hope you're not suggesting taking away the jobs of thousands of our LatinAmerican working class comrades...


No surprise from "the devil"
What I wanna see is how far Mexican officials will press the issue...many of them claimed that they were disappointed to see such an "rash" action taken by the American congress, specifically Democrats who were at one point interested in humane immigration reform

[Iseult_]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 12:09 AM



What do u mean by this? I hope you're not suggesting taking away the jobs of thousands of our LatinAmerican working class comrades...





I want to see the big businesses that exploit cheap labour punished.

[Tekun]

^The US government will punish them with fines and all, but those who will truly be punished will be the immigrant workers that will be fired and then referred to the INS

The only way to repel exploitation is for immigrants to create a union, to protect the rights of undocumented workers (or a revolution, but that's not the case as of right now)
Seeing how the gov and big business go hand in hand, the punishment won't be felt by these companies, but rather by their workers, specifically those undocumented

[Iseult_]

Toppling capitalism is a higher priority.

Our mexican comrades have to to do their part to in mexico.

It's unrealistic to think we can have a borderless world in the short term. The fence IS GOOD for socialism.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 08:31 AM
Toppling capitalism is a higher priority.
And you're going to topple capitalism by supporting the immigration cops? By deepening divisions between different groups of workers?

No, and in fact immigrant workers, with their experience of militant struggle in many countries, bring us closer to revolution in this country. Take a look at what's happening in Oaxaca right now - that's an experience and militancy, and broad social perspective, we need here.

I don't believe you're for real. If you were just saying you wanted to protect the wages of U.S.-born workers, a lot of people do think that, but it's purely ridiculous to think that deportations will advance revolution.

So I'll answer the real argument:

No amount of immigration enforcement is going to stop immigration or keep the bosses from using immigrants as cheap labor. They're certainly not going to seriously enforce any law against the bosses - it's the bosses' government, the bosses' cops.

What the immigration laws and cops do, is keep immigrant workers from fighting back. The fear of deportation is used to keep workers in line - employers will even threaten to call in la migra during organizing drives, etc.

Despite which many immigrant workers have been organizing unions anyway. They're more likely to want unions than U.S.-born workers. Even the official union leadership has noticed this, some of its unions have started seriously organizing immigrant workers - and necessarily have had to take a stand for immigrants' rights.

You can't build organize people while supporting their deportation. You have to be ready to resist the bosses' attempts to have them fired or deported for organizing....


Our mexican comrades have to to do their part to in mexico.

You can't be serious - demanding people be deported and then calling them "comrade".

You can herd or corral people into making a revolution.

In another thread, you asked if supporting immigrant's rights was agreeing with Bush....obviously, Bush in fact supports tougher border enforcement.

He also supports a "guest worker" program - to ensure cheap labor for the bosses, while keeping immigrant workers without rights. Their immigration status will depend on their employers. That's what the bosses have always wanted - workers without rights. Some Democrats support one too, as in the Kennedy-McCain Bill.

Obviously communists oppose guest worker programs, we always have, going back to the Bracero Program in the 30s. The unions oppose them too, along with most immigrants' rights groups.

We're for full legal residency for all. So immigrant workers will be in the best position to organize and resist exploitation - with full rights and without fear of deportation.

So no, the immigrants' rights position has nothing to do with Bush's position, or that of Democrats who support a guest worker program....

[Rollo]

Our mexican comrades have to to do their part to in mexico.



But deporting them is nationalist. No nationalist is a comrade of mine.


It's unrealistic to think we can have a borderless world in the short term. The fence IS GOOD for socialism.

No it's not. I won't bother going into why that makes no sense.

[Iseult_]

I think our Mexican comrades must defeat business in Mexico and we here in the U.S must defeat capitalism here in the U.S - only then can we begin to realize a world where workers are truly united.

If you think about it, the border fence actually HELPS the socialist cause.

[Rawthentic]

How is a divisive border gonna be towards the socialist cause?

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 10:46 AM
If you think about it, the border fence actually HELPS the socialist cause.
No, only if you don't think about it.

I've given reasons for my position - can you give reasons for yours, or are you just a troll?

[Iseult_]

Open borders plays right into the hands of the business class. I say first we topple capitalism THEN we build a global system that benefits workers. It has to be done in that order or we're doomed.

[Rawthentic]

Oh wow, you're prophetical. Borders and national boundaries are eliminated as a result a socialist revolution. Borders do not allow for immigrants to cross in search of a better life, like the militarized US-Mexico border. How that benefits revolution beats me, but you're starting to pervert socialism.

Severian makes it clear why.

[MexAmLeft]

i think he means that an open border has kept mexicans from fighting for true social change in mexico because the lure of US jobs was always there.If they turn that faucet off then mexicans will have no choice but to force change and hopefully socialist change in mexico.I see both sides to the argument, im torn.Because as much as i hate the fence it may indirectly lead to revolution in mexico.

[midnight marauder]

Because as much as i hate the fence it may indirectly lead to revolution in mexico.

And supporting every reactionary candidate and law would increase class consciousness exponentially. The thing is, it really doesn't matter: politics, economics, and social struggles are not games, and rights are not bargaining chips. We as progressives must emphatically support issues like immigrant rights, even if they may not directlly further the revolution.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 02:36 AM
i think he means that an open border has kept mexicans from fighting for true social change in mexico because the lure of US jobs was always there.If they turn that faucet off then mexicans will have no choice but to force change and hopefully socialist change in mexico.I see both sides to the argument, im torn.Because as much as i hate the fence it may indirectly lead to revolution in mexico.
Seeing how Iseult has been restricted, therez no reason for me to answer her ridiculous claims

However, by supporting any measure or policy that makes hardworking immigrants in this country illegal, we are betraying the working man
Latin America has enough ppl to create change, all they need is a lil support, guidance, and consciousness
Ppl in Latin America have experienced immigration and its slight stop, yet its not the fact that they are forced to live over there that should fuel them to seek change, but rather the unity among all the proletarians in that country is what will lead them to socialism
By restricting them from coming into this country, they'll find a way to come in
And nothing will be accomplished, we'll appear to betray our unity with the working man, and the American gov will resemble a police state

BTW: Rather than referring to them as a "faucet," choose your words carefully

[Janus]

I wonder how much the gov. is willing to spend on this. The logistics and money for this are definitely going to stretch some resources. And what exactly is the extent of this wall or fence going to be?