Here's a little activity...

[RNK]

Since so much of the left is at the mercy of childish pre-school semantics, let's try a kindergarten activity to help us all get along. I was going to ask everyone to sing a little song, but instead I'll simply ask everyone to say one GOOD thing about each of the following words:

-Marxism-
-Leninism-
-Stalinism-
-Trotskyism-
-Maoism-
-Anarchism-

I know there are some of you who can't help but be insanely shallow-minded about anything that isn't your personal socialist-subclass-of-choice, but we really need to try and promote better understanding and unity between the different Leftist sects. Otherwise, the entire Leftist movement as a whole will never get anywhere. We will remain a splintered group, focused on infighting as much as on fighting the real enemy. So for those of you with the ability to look past your pre-disposed prejudisms against these other Leftist sub-catagories, please, try and spread the word of unity and dialogue between the Left. It is the ONLY way we are going to achieve victory over capitalist imperialism.

(PS: This is in THEORY because I am hoping it will become a constructive conversation about unity between the different groups of Leftists.)

[RedAnarchist]

The infighting looks bad right now, but I think that as capitalism starts to wane, our movement will become more united.

As for the sub-groups -

Marxism - Basically the foundation of modern Communism.

Leninism - Got rid of the Russian Tsar and in some ways improved the lives of Russian workers.

Stalinism - The Red Army, who were a major thorn in Hitler's side.

Trotskyism - Gave Communists an alternative to pro-Moscow Stalinism during the Cold War.

Maoism - Has helped to strip power away from the Nepali monarch and an insurgency is trying to free the Nepali people.

Anarchism - The epitome of internationalism and egalitarianism.

[RNK]

Ok well, there are some points there that are very... well, borderline-critical, but nevertheless, thank you!

Here's my take, since I didn't do one:

Marxism - Created modern-day working-class consciousness, essentially. Gave a voice to billions who worked and lived in horrible conditions.

Leninism - Brought down the Russian monarchy, and showed that it is possible for a working-class movement to bring down a 1st-world modern government.

Stalinism - IMO, Stalinism seems very occupied with forcefully defending itself, the revolution and Communism.

Trotskyism - Preaches a return to traditional Marxism, to international revolution as opposed to "revolution in one country", to democracy.

Maoism - Provides the template to peasant revolt movements throughout the world, as well as the strategy and tactics for People's War.

Anarchism - Promotes directly the immediate abolishment of the state.

Unfortunately, I do not believe that the different Leftist camps will unite with one another without some honest work being done about it first.. hence this. Also, I think it is important to point out that nearly all Leftist camps are after the same thing -- a classless society where each man, woman and child receives everything they need -- and that our main differences come from the methods in which to attain that goal.

[Janus]

There is nothing indepth here.

Moved to Learning.

[Forward Union]

Marxism - Much of the foundation of all the following theories.

Leninism - Got rid of the Tzar. Showed us that the vanguard structrue dosnt work.

Stalinism - Turned a backward Feudal economy into a productive state-capitalist one in 5 years.

Trotskyism - Fought with the Anarchists in Spain!

Maoism - Well, it helped kick the US out of nam indirectly.

Anarchism - Fuck all, we got salughtered by the fascists and the Trotskyists, and the stalinists, and the nazis...assasinated a president once and then curled up to die in the punk scene. woo.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

umm when did the trotskyists 'slaughter' anarchists?

[KC]

Wow, this thread is really productive.

Why don't we just sit in a circle around a fire, hold hands and sing Kum Bai Yah. I'll bring the marshmallows!

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 04:51 PM
umm when did the trotskyists 'slaughter' anarchists?
I think Love Underground is referring to the anarchists involved in the Black Army and Kronstadt.

[Leo]

Why don't we just sit in a circle around a fire, hold hands and sing Kum Bai Yah. I'll bring the marshmallows!

I'm hungry...










Marxism - Scientific

Leninism - Petty Bourgeois, Progressive in 1900s

Stalinism - Capitalist / Imperialist

Trotskyism - Whiney, Ineffective

Maoism - Capitalist / Nationalist

Anarchism - Emotional

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Marxism - Scientific

Leninism - Petty Bourgeois, Progressive in 1900s

Stalinism - Capitalist / Imperialist

Trotskyism - Whiney, Ineffective

Maoism - Capitalist / Nationalist

Anarchism - Emotional
Most of those aren't good things. You fail at following simple instructions.

Marxism - The first (or at least most popular) modern expression of Communist theories and principles

Leninism - The first serious attempt to apply these principles, and an example to the world of the power of the proletariat

Stalinism - Based on strength, integrity and iron-fisted vigilance. Stalin also scared the living shit out of the Western world.

Trotskyism - Furthered the Marxist movement intellectually

Maoism - (Originally) of higher morals than the Soviet system

Anarchism - Anarchists tend to be the most pro-active of the Communists

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Xero+Sep 29 2006, 11:02 PM--> (Xero @ Sep 29 2006, 11:02 PM)
[email protected] 29 2006, 04:51 PM
umm when did the trotskyists 'slaughter' anarchists?
I think Love Underground is referring to the anarchists involved in the Black Army and Kronstadt. [/b]
Well unless you count anarcho-fascists as anarchists, there were no anarchists in Kronsdat. Those guys were notoriously anti-semitic fascists.

[KC]

Well unless you count anarcho-fascists as anarchists, there were no anarchists in Kronsdat. Those guys were notoriously anti-semitic fascists.

Fascism isn't necessarily racist.

[rouchambeau]

Bah. The left blows. Post-Left is where it's at.

[Leo]

Most of those aren't good things. You fail at following simple instructions.

Hey! Give me a break man! I'm fucking drunk!





:(

[chimx]

-Marxism-
-Leninism-
<s>-Stalinism-</s>
-Trotskyism-
-Maoism-
-Anarchism-

i find that most that adhere to any of the above beliefs, save the 3rd, often have the best intentions. while i disagree with all of the above advocates at times, as long as their intentions are true and the mean the best in their attempts at dismantling capitalism and other coersive power structures i can get along with them.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 29 2006, 11:36 PM

Most of those aren&#39;t good things. You fail at following simple instructions.

Hey&#33; Give me a break man&#33; I&#39;m fucking drunk&#33;





:(
*kiss*

[LoneRed]

Originally posted by Khayembii [email protected] 29 2006, 10:53 PM
Wow, this thread is really productive.

Why don&#39;t we just sit in a circle around a fire, hold hands and sing Kum Bai Yah. I&#39;ll bring the marshmallows&#33;
ya, I&#39;ll bring the ganj.

This thread is a failure, because, as Ive seen the anarchists downplay the first 4 then trump up anarchism, goes both ways, too bad it didn&#39;t work. Now you know why it&#39;s hard to work with anarchists sometimes?

[LoneRed]

Edit* Double post

[BreadBros]

Marxism: I don&#39;t consider this to be any kind of "variant" of Communist thought. It is the foundation of Communism, and is still the most relevant set of theories on the destruction of class society. More importantly, via its composition and analysis of society and history, it gives a clear materialist blueprint on how to understand society, applicable to all aspects of history and situations.

Leninism: Through it&#39;s emphasis on imperialism, this is in some manner or another the foundation of thought in terms of fighting imperialism, and on internally developing modern capitalist methods of production via modernization. In practice, helped destroy the Russian monarchy, made incredible changes internally and internationally, gave the biggest example of applying Marxist thought in real life and helped elucidate some of the errors and differences between State Socialism and more orthodox Marxism that are vital to truly abolishing class society.

Stalinism: Drastically modernized a society, fought the re-institution of monarchical and traditional bourgeois capitalism, was the keystone in the fight against Fascism, and furthered the establishment of international ties that would prove useful in national liberation and anti-imperialist struggles.

Trotskyism: Helped establish how and why Stalinism diverged from Leninism and called for a return to Marx.

Maoism: The best model as of yet on how a third-world agricultural society can not only fight imperialism, but establish modern production methods and modernize, at light-speed.

Anarchism: In many ways, a re-iteration of Marx in that it provides the essential call to return to Marx&#39;s original goals: the destruction of all class society, including the State.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 10:51 PM
umm when did the trotskyists &#39;slaughter&#39; anarchists?
Let the sectarianism commence&#33;

but to answer the question, the trotskyists slaughtered anarchist militias banded together to fight the german imperialists when the Bolsheviks handed over that land to the Germans. And in Ukraine, after the black army fought with the Red army against the Counter revolutionary-white army, the Reds turned on them near the end of the war and liquidated the anarchist movement. There are other examples, but you get the idea...

[Comrade Kurtz]

I&#39;m offended that democratic socialism wasn&#39;t one of the listed ideologies.

[More Fire for the People]

—Marxism: the foundation of modern revolutionary leftist theory [except amongst Proudhounist].
—Leninism: Lenin expounded the organisational tasks implied by the socio-historical conclusions of Marxism.
—Stalinism: socialist realism. :lol:
—Trotskyism: universalized Leninism.
—Maoism: sucessively adapted Leninism to the particular conditions of 1920s-1950s China.
—Anarchism: Emma Goldman&#39;s monicle.

[Son of a Strummer]

—Marxism: followers of the man who proferred the most courageous, penetrating and wide-ranging critique of capitalism.
—Leninism: deposed corrupt aristocracy, breathed life into the dream of world revolution, and improved the lot of the russian people.
—Stalinism: mobilized the russian people for heroic and indispensible efforts in the fight against fascism.
—Trotskyism: serious analysis that is worth considering, including what went wrong with the Russian revolution.
—Maoism: as J.L. Godard once said, Mao fed his people, no small feat.
—Anarchism: Spain arguably the most liberatory revolution in history.

[Lenin's Law]

Originally posted by LoneRed+Sep 30 2006, 01:22 AM--> (LoneRed &#064; Sep 30 2006, 01:22 AM)
Khayembii [email protected] 29 2006, 10:53 PM
Wow, this thread is really productive.

Why don&#39;t we just sit in a circle around a fire, hold hands and sing Kum Bai Yah. I&#39;ll bring the marshmallows&#33;
ya, I&#39;ll bring the ganj.

This thread is a failure, because, as Ive seen the anarchists downplay the first 4 then trump up anarchism, goes both ways, too bad it didn&#39;t work. Now you know why it&#39;s hard to work with anarchists sometimes? [/b]
I agree. And that is unfortunate.

However, for what it&#39;s worth:

Marxists - THE eternal revolutionary philosophy that has become the foundation/point of reference for virtually all the revolutionary-left movements.

Leninism - Linked Communism with the fight and struggle against Imperialism. Made significant contributions to the task of party-building, party-leadering and the creating of a political vanguard. Proved to the entire world that it was possible for Marxists to take power in a large country.

Stalinism - Led the USSR to a historic victory over the Nazis. Led the USSR out of its feudal-peasant-backward state into a modern nation. Most of the world became red while he was in power.

Trotskyism - Provided people with an alternative view of Communism that differed with that of the USSR at the time. Along with Lenin , was a leader in the Russian Revolution which destroyed the remnants of the monarchist regime and the reactionary White Army

Maoism - Led a peasant state into industrialization and modernity. Provided very useful analysis on guerilla warfare, which is still read today by both guerillas and enemies of guerillas, including the US Army&#33;

Anarchism - Provided a very stong anti-authoritarian critique of all the above variations of Marxism. In several countries, have made very good work in unionizing workers and raising their class-consciousness and revolutionary militancy.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by Stalin&#39;s Law+Oct 3 2006, 03:22 PM--> (Stalin&#39;s Law @ Oct 3 2006, 03:22 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 01:22 AM

Khayembii [email protected] 29 2006, 10:53 PM
Wow, this thread is really productive.

Why don&#39;t we just sit in a circle around a fire, hold hands and sing Kum Bai Yah. I&#39;ll bring the marshmallows&#33;
ya, I&#39;ll bring the ganj.

This thread is a failure, because, as Ive seen the anarchists downplay the first 4 then trump up anarchism, goes both ways, too bad it didn&#39;t work. Now you know why it&#39;s hard to work with anarchists sometimes?
I agree. And that is unfortunate. [/b]
I disagree, LU&#39;s critique is still the best

[Lenin's Law]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 3 2006, 03:41 PM
I disagree, LU&#39;s critique is still the best
But that&#39;s the whole point - This was not meant to be a "critique" about anything but for the purposes of harmony, saying 1 good thing about each of the major Left philosophies.

[Okocim]

stalinism: there&#39;s very few of its followers left. :P


I don&#39;t think this will help at all tbh; for example anarchists won&#39;t work with the authoritarian stalinists even if they can both think of one thing in common. this is futile.