On the FARC-EP

[Rawthentic]

I have heard both sides of the debate. On one side, we have those who say that the FARC-EP is a legitimate revolutionary force who fights for the liberation of Colombia and that anything that goes otherwise is all bourgeios media crap. We have others who say that they are no longer credible, just a bunch of drug-dealing extremists who hurt the people that they fight for. I ask this now because we have a friend who recently came from Colombia and lives with us. He is a FARC supporter, and scares the shit outta me. He talks about wiping out the entire white race because they are useless murderers. I see where he comes from: the neocolonialism in Colombia and the consrvative pro-US president there, but thats no reason to say shit like that . So whats the real story? Lets hear both sides.

[violencia.Proletariat]

FARC is a progressive anti-imperialist force. Juxtaposed to the Colombian state they are the obvious choice.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

FARC doesn't support racism, so don't see that cat as a representative of them.

Some articles about Colombia and FARC:
Colombian military sets deadly car bomb, blames FARC revolutionaries (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?177)
Forensic investigation shows Colombian soldiers massacred an entire family (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?54)
Colombia Won't Extradite Paramilitary Warlord (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?85)

[Tekun]

Although Wikipedia isn't always great, this is a pretty good piece that sums up the ideology of las FARC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economi..._of_the_FARC-EP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_Structure_of_the_FARC-EP)

FARC holds a Marxist-Leninist ideology, so racism or sexism is not tolerated
Women, mestizos, the indigenous, Afro-Colombians and all others are treated the same, with equality and respect

BTW: Don't believe the whole "las FARC kills innocent ppl" BS
Paramilitary groups (AUC) indiscriminately kill those who in any way support las FARC, while disguised or claiming to be FARC members
They do this to increase opposition, outrage, and to downright incriminate las FARC
There are numerous articles detailing this type of action

[*PRC*Kensei]

about the drugs...

they have drugs as... income.. war costs mony.

it's un-communistic to have drugs. but their territory is territory that has drug agriculture... anyway they cannot be compared with drug barons, they sell drugs to keep the revlution going... not to build palaces.

anyway: thats how i see it :)

anyway: farc has an ACTIVE LEFT REVOLUTION going on, so why not support them ? their the worlds FIRST hope for a new succesfull revolution. if revolution will happen , it will happen there. and they got the arms & the people to do it... only it's a long, long battle.

[Lenin's Law]

ALL OUT for supporting the FARC!

ALL Power to the Columbian workers!
Destroy the fascist Colombian state!

[Guerrilla22]

FARC simply taxes drug production in their territory, they don't produce or distribute drugs, the drugs would be produced regardless, why not take advantage of an opprotunity to fund your revolution?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Basically it's like this. The AUC is actively involved in the cultivation, processing and trafficking of coke.

FARC on the other hand, simply taxes coca farmes in the areas it controls, like it taxes all farmers.

If FARC were to tell farmers they couldn't grow coca, that would be like telling them to starve to death. For alot of farmers, coca is the only thing they can grow to make any money at all. It's that or coffee for your nearest Starfucks at the huge prices you can imagine.

[Janus]

it's un-communistic to have drugs
Not really. It's a form of income and as long as you don't see it as an end in itself, there shouldn't be a problem.

[norwegian commie]

this was weary pro-farc ish... Is the killings ive heard farc was responsible of not farc? Or are farc consisting of bad and good guys?
Bad eggs going on rampages giving the organisation a bad rep. i wonder...

I alsoe belive it is un-communistic to have drugs, sell drugs.
Opium for the people is not only religion but alsoe opium itselvf.

[Janus]

this was weary pro-farc ish... Is the killings ive heard farc was responsible of not farc? Or are farc consisting of bad and good guys?
It's kinda hard to know the truth since the gov. controls most of the news coming out from Colombia.

However it was recently discovered that the military had been committing certain atrocities and blaming them on FARC.

[Tekun]

Paramilitary groups like the AUC were created to fight and incriminate FARC in order to create popular outrage against them
The strategy of paramilitary groups is to incriminate FARC by dressing like them and then killing, raping, and threatening innocent peasants and workers
And so far, they have succeeded on a global scale, cause most of the world's governments regard FARC as a terrorist group (no surprise there)


I alsoe belive it is un-communistic to have drugs, sell drugs.
Opium for the people is not only religion but alsoe opium itselvf.

They don't sell drugs, nor produce them
They tax farmers that grow coca in FARC controlled land
These farmers usually grow coca for variour reasons, not just for drug production
Bsides, what's wrong with drugs, if ppl want to take them, who are we to tell them not to?
If u wanna combat some of the negative effects of drugs, education and prevention campaigns are the way to go
Banning them is counterproductive to the emancipation of society, and its imitating the policies of neoliberal govs like the US, whose real intention is to fund the government and its agencies like the DEA

[WUOrevolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 01:41 AM



I alsoe belive it is un-communistic to have drugs, sell drugs.
Opium for the people is not only religion but alsoe opium itselvf.

They don't sell drugs, nor produce them
They tax farmers that grow coca in FARC controlled land
These farmers usually grow coca for variour reasons, not just for drug production
Bsides, what's wrong with drugs, if ppl want to take them, who are we to tell them not to?
If u wanna combat some of the negative effects of drugs, education and prevention campaigns are the way to go
Banning them is counterproductive to the emancipation of society, and its imitating the policies of neoliberal govs like the US, whose real intention is to fund the government and its agencies like the DEA
Tekun, well put. Who are you to tell me what I can and can't do with my body. Sure, certain drugs are nothing but poison, but prohibition is not the answer.

As to the FARC, I am not a supporter. I am an anarchist for one thing, but certain practices by the FARC are simply inexcuseable. I am referring to their kidnapping practices. Why must they take people hostage. We don't like it when Right wingers do it, so why is it ok for the FARC to do it.

There is no doubt that the FARC are not as brutal and merciless as they are made out to be. But still, I am not a supporter.

[Rawthentic]

Sounds good. Im beginning to incline to the pro-FARC side.

[chebol]

The FARC-EP are one of the most maligned and misunderstood organisations around, and it is worth checking out as much as you can about Colombia's 20th Century history.

There are quite a few threads dealing with the FARC, which I recommend checking out for links, figures (such as the amount of money from the coca and cocaine trade that reaches the FARC - it is only 1%, through the taxes mentioned above), and the various attempts the FARC have made to negotiate a peace deal (including running in elections in the 80's, only to have the right wing massacre thousands of members and supporters), and so on.

They are by no means perfect, but hten no revolutionary organisation is, or else we'd have global revolution by now.... ;)

It's also worth checking out their own website, to get the horse's mouth version, so to speak...

http://www.farcep.org/

[The Grey Blur]

My main problem with the FARC would be their lack of support amongst the workers, whose importance in any struggle needs not be stated. Is this a false impression?

[Whitten]

Columbia is amongst the most underdeveloped countries in the western hemisphere. As a result of this most industrial proletariat are cituated in the cities, which are all under amy control. The army has been known to wipe out entire villages of those they believe to be Farc supporters. It would be rather difficult form them to be openly supportive of FARC. They do have alot of support from the more rural workers though.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Hearing about stories from leftists like McLeft, I am very very sceptical.

This is what he wrote, in another thread:



I am half Colombian, my father was a trade unionist and an activist for the UP so I know a lot of what goes on, i have witnessed this myself, in fact one of the reasons I live in London is because my dad was threatened by FARC for working with the PDI and decided to flee Colombia before anything happened. The PDI is a leftist party and I believe they are the future for Colombia. Why are FARC fighting against other Socialist parties, they are contradicting their own ideology.

I'm sorry my comrade but you seem to be justifying their every move, if FARC seeked peace under the next leftist government maybe there would be hope to end the never ending period of violence, as I said before, FARC have forgotten what their own ideology means, they contradict themselves.



I don't want to go into detail about my own personal incident but I could tell you what once happened while travelling from Armenia to Cali.

Basically, there is a highway which connects both cities, my dad was driving us there, I was very young and I might have not understood what was going but I certainly understood what I saw.

After 3 hours or so of driving, our journey came to a halt, we joined a very long queue of cars, there was all sorts of motorists, but the majority were lorry drivers who make a living by transporting agricultural produce from farms to the cities. My dad stopped the car and got off thinking that what was going on was a normal police check on all vehicles but as he was getting out of the car, a man dressed in military uniform claiming to be FARC told us to stay calm and to get off the car and go with him. So we did, my dad looked worried and i innocently thought we were being arrested by the police, you know, what a 6 year old would think. The man guided us up the highway, it was a ten minute walk and on the way he kept telling people to get off their vehicles and people did so unhesitantly but i did hear a woman cry, she took her purse and gave it to the man, now i understand that she was trying to bribe him, the man rejected it and grabbed her by the arm and pushed her violently and called her a 'puta', anyway she joined us and we continued up the highway, I started crying when I saw a group of what appeared to be soldiers carrying big guns, they then ordered all the men to line up i was separated from my dad and an old lady took me and hugged me and that sort of made me come down a bit) Anyway, a middle aged man in uniform asked all the lorry drivers to step forward and around 10 of them did, these men were made to walk up to their lorries. All I heard after were shots, for a good 10 minutes, it was terrible, i wanted to go to my dad but he was being held nearly at gunpoint and i started having a sort of nervous break down, i had never felt so scared in my life and i think i never will do again.

After a good 1/2 hour, the same man that guided us up the highway told us that we could go back to our vehicles and continue on with our jurney, on the way back to our car my dad told me that they burned one of the lorries and kidnapped the owner, the other 9 lorries were sprayed on with their usual 'FARC-EP' logo and later my dad told me that if the lorry owners took it off they would get killed, that's one more of their extortionate tactics. I myself saw the truck, it was in flames and all the tyres were shot at.

Now you may or may not believe what happened, that day was our lucky day, my dad and I simply happened to be two more people out of the dozens that were standing in the middle of the highway, my dad also had to give them all of his money including the tools that he used to carry in the carboot.

That event is one I will never forget and I feel sincerely sorry for the people of Colombia who see worse things than what I saw, thankfully i didn't witness any murders at that age, if i had i think i would've been traumatised. In that same year my dad sent me back to live with my mum here in the UK, she then took me with her to her native Ireland where we spent a few months trying to find a way of going back to Colombia but she came to the conclusion that it was too dangerous, my dad however, continued to live in Colombia until 2002 when he was targetted along with many of his colleagues of a Trade Union called Sinaltrabavaria (the largest in the country) It just became too dangerous, he had to leave his job and came to live with us. The last time we went to Colombia together as a family was last year, i'm hoping to go again next Christmas.

[norwegian commie]

i must say i am interessted and have become moore "tolerant" towards FARC. The question is if any of you gous can referr to any first hand info? And what about the kidnapping? i cant agree with that.
But the taxing of the drugs is smart and definetly acceptable.

First of all, if you consider drugs un-communistic. They dont make it, and they make demands to the ones that is making them, redusing the profitt of drug-buisness and making it atleast somewhat less appealing.


Tekun, well put. Who are you to tell me what I can and can't do with my body. Sure, certain drugs are nothing but poison, but prohibition is not the answer.

I think "NO PRACTICE OF DRUGS" is a slogan wich is important.
Weed, i couldnt care less... But Coce, crack, herion ect... That shuld not exist in any society. We must keep it away from our kids, young ones by saying exactly what they can r cant do on that matter.
It is in youth or deperate situations in life hard drugs seem appealing. They must not get addicted to drugs wich will ruin their life.

[metalero]

There are many threads on FARC but I'll point these two ones where a lot of productive debate was made:

Colombian military stages attacks (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=55669&hl=Farc)

Regarding this :

I am half Colombian, my father was a trade unionist and an activist for the UP so I know a lot of what goes on, i have witnessed this myself, in fact one of the reasons I live in London is because my dad was threatened by FARC for working with the PDI and decided to flee Colombia before anything happened. The PDI is a leftist party and I believe they are the future for Colombia. Why are FARC fighting against other Socialist parties, they are contradicting their own ideology.

I'm sorry my comrade but you seem to be justifying their every move, if FARC seeked peace under the next leftist government maybe there would be hope to end the never ending period of violence, as I said before, FARC have forgotten what their own ideology means, they contradict themselves.


QUOTE
I don't want to go into detail about my own personal incident but I could tell you what once happened while travelling from Armenia to Cali.

Basically, there is a highway which connects both cities, my dad was driving us there, I was very young and I might have not understood what was going but I certainly understood what I saw.

After 3 hours or so of driving, our journey came to a halt, we joined a very long queue of cars, there was all sorts of motorists, but the majority were lorry drivers who make a living by transporting agricultural produce from farms to the cities. My dad stopped the car and got off thinking that what was going on was a normal police check on all vehicles but as he was getting out of the car, a man dressed in military uniform claiming to be FARC told us to stay calm and to get off the car and go with him. So we did, my dad looked worried and i innocently thought we were being arrested by the police, you know, what a 6 year old would think. The man guided us up the highway, it was a ten minute walk and on the way he kept telling people to get off their vehicles and people did so unhesitantly but i did hear a woman cry, she took her purse and gave it to the man, now i understand that she was trying to bribe him, the man rejected it and grabbed her by the arm and pushed her violently and called her a 'puta', anyway she joined us and we continued up the highway, I started crying when I saw a group of what appeared to be soldiers carrying big guns, they then ordered all the men to line up i was separated from my dad and an old lady took me and hugged me and that sort of made me come down a bit) Anyway, a middle aged man in uniform asked all the lorry drivers to step forward and around 10 of them did, these men were made to walk up to their lorries. All I heard after were shots, for a good 10 minutes, it was terrible, i wanted to go to my dad but he was being held nearly at gunpoint and i started having a sort of nervous break down, i had never felt so scared in my life and i think i never will do again.

After a good 1/2 hour, the same man that guided us up the highway told us that we could go back to our vehicles and continue on with our jurney, on the way back to our car my dad told me that they burned one of the lorries and kidnapped the owner, the other 9 lorries were sprayed on with their usual 'FARC-EP' logo and later my dad told me that if the lorry owners took it off they would get killed, that's one more of their extortionate tactics. I myself saw the truck, it was in flames and all the tyres were shot at.

Now you may or may not believe what happened, that day was our lucky day, my dad and I simply happened to be two more people out of the dozens that were standing in the middle of the highway, my dad also had to give them all of his money including the tools that he used to carry in the carboot.

That event is one I will never forget and I feel sincerely sorry for the people of Colombia who see worse things than what I saw, thankfully i didn't witness any murders at that age, if i had i think i would've been traumatised. In that same year my dad sent me back to live with my mum here in the UK, she then took me with her to her native Ireland where we spent a few months trying to find a way of going back to Colombia but she came to the conclusion that it was too dangerous, my dad however, continued to live in Colombia until 2002 when he was targetted along with many of his colleagues of a Trade Union called Sinaltrabavaria (the largest in the country) It just became too dangerous, he had to leave his job and came to live with us. The last time we went to Colombia together as a family was last year, i'm hoping to go again next Christmas

...I also live in Colombia, and I adressed Mcleft and yourself on this issue, in this thread (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=47141&hl=Farc&st=25)


Mcleft, I don't know if you bring these on purpose or out of leftist innocence. Considering the way you recreate the events (a hollywood movie about Colombia) and how you brought the example of the neckless bomb (something that even the Army had to recognized was done by common criminals) I strongly recommed you to at least do some research appart from watching RCN, and CARACOL, in order to have an historical sense of the colombian armed conflict. I've lived in colombia for more than 20 years, I've travelled all around by Bus (Cartagena, Medellin, Bogota and Barranquilla), and I've never come across any sort of problem; there are high risk zones, but you obviously take the necessary steps not to have any problem (bring your ID and avoid any kind of political propaganda). Unless you are big landowner, who support paramilitarism, or your capital is more than 1 million dolar (in colombia!) and haven't paid the "war taxes" to the guerrilla, you shouldn't have any problem in Guerrilla territories. On the other side, if you want to make something as simple as to organize a labor union, demand your constitutional right to education and health care, you might be harassed, arrested by the security forces(even executed, the number of union leaders executed in Colombia in one year, is greater than the world's combined), and tortured or dissapeared by Paracos in northern rural colombia.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 08:35 PM

it's un-communistic to have drugs
Not really. It's a form of income and as long as you don't see it as an end in itself, there shouldn't be a problem.
drugs:

- target the poor (mainly, coke is more a uptown drug...but drugs in general)
- get you addicted --> you become slave of consumation, you lose your freedom, you are no longer independant of capital.
- are expencive...
- big-profit, create drug barons, create e whealthy class above the workers.
- are... very bad for any gerillia army, a gerilla must be INDEPENDANT of any material accept basic food.

anyway, this doesnt mean i am against the farc, far from. go go farc ;)

[RNK]

There's also the matter that the FARC doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. How long has their war been on? In my opinion, they have become stagnant.

[Sadena Meti]

To the contrary, since 2002 FARC-EP has been spreading it's sphere of influence, in terms of power and area, outside of Columbia. Read some of the right-wing reports on them and you will see that they (the right) are getting worried.

[A CLOCKWORK ORANGE]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 27 2006, 04:47 PM
Basically it's like this. The AUC is actively involved in the cultivation, processing and trafficking of coke.

FARC on the other hand, simply taxes coca farmes in the areas it controls, like it taxes all farmers.

If FARC were to tell farmers they couldn't grow coca, that would be like telling them to starve to death. For alot of farmers, coca is the only thing they can grow to make any money at all. It's that or coffee for your nearest Starfucks at the huge prices you can imagine.
Are you sure it's just taxing? Two alleged FARC suspects plead guilty yesterday to conspiring to distribute large quantities of cocaine in Miami.


MIAMI (Reuters) - Two alleged associates of Colombia's leading rebel group pleaded guilty on Thursday to conspiring to distribute large quantities of cocaine in Miami, authorities said.

The convictions of the men, who were extradited from Colombia earlier this year, are the first in the United States involving drug suspects linked to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, Alexander Acosta, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Florida, told reporters.

Fifty leaders of the rebel group, known as FARC, were charged in March with importing more than $25 billion worth of cocaine into the United States and other countries.

The one-count U.S. indictment named as defendants the entire leadership of the FARC, a group the United States has designated a foreign terrorist organization.

Acosta said the men in the Miami case, Cesar Augusto Perez-Parra and Farouk Shaikh-Reyes, pleaded guilty in federal court to conspiring to supply up to 4,400 pounds (2 tonnes) of cocaine every 15 to 45 days to informants cooperating with U.S. law enforcement agencies.

"The defendants face several decades of prison here in the United States," Acosta said.

He said a third suspect in the case, an alleged FARC guerrilla identified as Ferney Tovar-Parra, faced extradition from Colombia on the south Florida cocaine charges.

Source: FARC suspects plead guilty to U.S charges (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060928/wl_nm/crime_colombia_usa_dc_1)

[Sadena Meti]

Two alleged associates of Colombia's leading rebel group...

Alleged associates, not members.

[A CLOCKWORK ORANGE]

Originally posted by rev-[email protected] 30 2006, 12:53 PM

Two alleged associates of Colombia's leading rebel group...

Alleged associates, not members.
We still don't know for sure.