DPRK

[Kurt Crover]

Are we pro or anti on here?

[Whitten]

Most are anti but there are a few pros. I refrain from judgement on this particuarly country based on the lack of reliable information either way.

[rouchambeau]

Who is "we"?

And if you're using the word "we" instead of "you all" because you have no idea what to think and are trying to get someone to tell you what to think, then look into the DPRK for yourself.

[karmaradical]

Definitley Anti.

I dont dig on Juche Monarchies.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

NWOG = anti-North Korean regime

[Clarksist]

I think its safe to say, that most people on this board aren't for the DPRK. Seeing as we are all anarchists, communists, or something in between. :P

[RedCommieBear]

My opinion of the DPRK and Juche can be summed up in one word: Really bad. (And yes, I realized that was two words)

I'm pretty sure that "Juche" may be worse than Stalinism.

[( R )evolution]

Fuck DPRK and Fuck Juche. Just some more Stalinist scum.

[Janus]

This is more suited for Learning.

[karmaradical]

Originally posted by Machiavelli [email protected] 25 2006, 12:56 AM
Fuck DPRK and Fuck Juche. Just some more Stalinist scum.
Ya know, this is actually the wrong term for the DPRK. The DPRK can roughly, not even be considered Marxist anymore. Definitley not Stalinist/Marxist-Leninist either.

They are JUCHE, which is much worse than Stalin could have ever imagined.

[chimx]

i think the communist experience on the korean penninsula is fascinating, and quite often parallels that of the russian experience. following the liberation of Korea after the defeat of the imperialist Japan in World War 2, there was a quite spontaneous "socialist" (i use that term loosely, as i doubt many considered themselves such--though there were some) movement. this movement saw workers seize factorys from japanese landlords and run them on their own. peasants who had to pay rent to Japan seized a lot of the land for themselves. Out of this movement also spawned the Korean People's Republic, which was actually called something else first, but the name escapes me. This body decentralized state power by handing state power to local community committees, or regional committees. eventually this group tried to slowly centralize in seoul, but the american occupation crushed it for being to leftists. while it wasn't communist by any means. it was more wilsonian democracy mixed with european socialism, it was a very new and exciting means of governing.

As i said, the American occupation crushed the KPR in 1946 and 1947, which led to a great deal of riots and uprisings. By the end of the American occupation, there were more political prisoners in what was to become the Republic of Korea than there had been at the end of the Japanese occupation! all in a matter of 2 years or so!

While the south saw the americans liquidate the Left and place Rhee and the "liberal" party into power (thus ensuring the division of the peninsual), the soviets in the north took a much more diplomatic approach. they manipulated the committee system, forcing its centralization and its bowing to the whims of the communist party. now, before any pro-DPRK folk in the forum say it, the DPRK in theory is a multi-party popular front government. however, in practice it is a single party system, with the other minor political parties bowing to the CP.

It is unfortunate that the DPRK is a horrid manipulation of the original committee system which saw workers and peasants obtain real power and control over their lives and work. Personally I place more blame on Korea's division and the resulting creation of the DPRK and ROK on the hands of America, but the soviets refusal to work bilaterally with the united states following the moscow meeting is equally frustrating.

so yeah, fuck the DPRK and the ROK, and here is hoping for a unified korea!

[Wanted Man]

Wow, good post chimx. Respect for offering a view that is a bit more nuanced than the "LOLZ STALINISTS FUCK SHIT UP ANARCHYYYYY FUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK!!!!!!" we commonly see here. Just one note:


but the soviets refusal to work bilaterally with the united states following the moscow meeting is equally frustrating.
I'm not sure what meeting you are referring to, but I would also note the U.S. refusal to even talk to the Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea. If it was recognized could possibly have led to an early reunification as Kim Jong-il would later describe it(with Korea's status being more like Austria's, rather than Germany's):

http://www.kcckp.net/en/great/guid.php?5

[Kurt Crover]

Hmmm... I have mixed feelings about the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". I've read about the Korean War. I've also read about the USS Pueblo, an American warship that was captured by the DPRK. It seems to me that most things written about the DPRK by the DPRK are mainly just propaganda and barely has an ounce of truth. I've seen satellite pictures of the north and south at night and while the whole of South Korea has electricity, the only light shining from the North is Pyongyang. I also don't agree that Kim Jong Il is treated as a god like figure when really he's a human.

[Hiero]

I've seen satellite pictures of the north and south at night and while the whole of South Korea has electricity, the only light shining from the North is Pyongyang

What do you expect of a third world country?

The south of Korea eventually was able to work it's way into a favourable position in the US neo-empire. The north was unable to get equal support from China and the USSR. Though socialist planing has benifited the people in the north and there has been steedy developement from the slump in the 1990s.

[Kurt Crover]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 12:29 PM

What do you expect of a third world country?

you have a fair point.

Also reading about the trade of the DPRK also has a hand why its so poor. China and the Russians were unreliable yet ROK had massive backing from the West. But still Juche, what the hell? "Self reliance"? Who trades with the DPRK except the Chinese in the present day?

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by Kurt [email protected] 26 2006, 12:14 PM
Hmmm... I have mixed feelings about the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". I've read about the Korean War. I've also read about the USS Pueblo, an American warship that was captured by the DPRK. It seems to me that most things written about the DPRK by the DPRK are mainly just propaganda and barely has an ounce of truth. I've seen satellite pictures of the north and south at night and while the whole of South Korea has electricity, the only light shining from the North is Pyongyang. I also don't agree that Kim Jong Il is treated as a god like figure when really he's a human.
The whole Pueblo thing was pretty bad-ass.

Anyway, about the satellite pic, it's a bit weird, sometimes I see a bit of light in and around Pyongyang, in other versions, everything is black. There are some modified versions, and I have no idea when it was taken, so I doubt that it's entirely accurate at this point. And of course Hiero is right.

Anyway, both in political liberties and economy, the DPRK could easily measure up to the south, if not surpass it. It's the almost complete loss of foreign support from the end of the Cold War that made the country go downhill, right down to the terrible famine of the mid-90s. Things are slowly getting better now.

[Kurt Crover]

what's happening then to make the DPRK better?

[Lenin's Law]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:12 AM
Wow, good post chimx. Respect for offering a view that is a bit more nuanced than the "LOLZ STALINISTS FUCK SHIT UP ANARCHYYYYY FUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK!!!!!!" we commonly see here.
:lol: :) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Thanks Comrade! You gave me a good laugh! :hammer: :marx: :engles: