What are these?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I've been arguing this neo-conservative capitalist on another forum and he claimed that the USSR was communist/socialist because they follwed these 10 planks of communism. I was under the impression that these were steps towards communism? Can anyone explain?



1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

These are from the Communist Manifesto:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works...ifesto/ch02.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm)

You are right they are steps on the road to a socialist society, as Marx later argued in the Critique of the Gotha Programme.

Of course, whatever a post-revolutionary society decides to do will be up to them.

It will after all be a democracy, not a Marx adulation society.

The USSR sipped back after 1929 and became state capitalist, anyway, with workers' democracy cancelled, etc.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Rosa [email protected] 19 2006, 09:15 PM
These are from the Communist Manifesto:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works...ifesto/ch02.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm)

You are right they are steps on the road to a socialist society, as Marx later argued in the Critique of the Gotha Programme.

Of course, whatever a post-revolutionary society decides to do will be up to them.

It will after all be a democracy, not a Marx adulation society.

The USSR sipped back after 1929 and became state capitalist, anyway, with workers' democracy cancelled, etc.
I know they're from the communisty maniefesto. What I don't understand is if those are all you need for socialism, wouldn't the USSR be socialist? Hell, wouldn't the US even be almost socialist? Just curious because this guy claimed that because the USSR followed these principles they were socialist

[Whitten]

Originally posted by LeftyHenry+Sep 19 2006, 09:17 PM--> (LeftyHenry @ Sep 19 2006, 09:17 PM)
Rosa [email protected] 19 2006, 09:15 PM
These are from the Communist Manifesto:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works...ifesto/ch02.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm)

You are right they are steps on the road to a socialist society, as Marx later argued in the Critique of the Gotha Programme.

Of course, whatever a post-revolutionary society decides to do will be up to them.

It will after all be a democracy, not a Marx adulation society.

The USSR sipped back after 1929 and became state capitalist, anyway, with workers' democracy cancelled, etc.
I know they're from the communisty maniefesto. What I don't understand is if those are all you need for socialism, wouldn't the USSR be socialist? Hell, wouldn't the US even be almost socialist? Just curious because this guy claimed that because the USSR followed these principles they were socialist [/b]
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. - Not in the US

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. - Not on the US

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. - Not in the US

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. - Not Legally in the US

5. Centralisation of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. - Not in the US

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. - Not in the US

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. - Not in the US

8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Not in the US

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. - Not in the US

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. - In the US (albiet very reluctanltly)

Well 1 out of 10 for the US isnt bad.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

But than the USSR was socialist?

[Koblen]

The U.S.S.R. was far from socialist. As Rosa said, the U.S.S.R. slipped from the road of socialism when it began restricting workers' rights.

A socialist society is supposed to give total freedom to the working class and restrict, or -- for lack of a better word -- oppress the former capital class in order to insure that they do not attempt to organize and gain power once again.

The U.S.S.R. simply became state capitalist once it began accepting petty-bourgeoisie into the party ranks, appointing individuals to power, etc., etc., etc.

[kurt]

Even in 1872 Marx & Engels said that this particular section of the Manifesto was out of date.

http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/184...sto/preface.htm (http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/preface.htm)

[apathy maybe]

The USSR was never socialist. The differentials in wealth and power were too great. While all these things are worthwhile and it maybe that the USSR did achieve them, they did not achieve the equalisation of power, the democratisation of factories and other places of work, the abolition of privilege enjoyed by the powerful.