Muslim reaction to Pope's comments

[TTe5]

Why is it that Muslims in general are so much more sensitive about their religion than most Christians or Jews? Christianity is mocked and made fun of daily, but the one time a Christian leader says something that is historically accurate about Islam that Muslims do not like there is a huge backlash. Not even vocal backlash - there is violent backlash. Just because the Pope quoted a Byzantine emperor who 'dissed' Muhammed militant Muslims set off bombs at (I can't remember if it was one or several) church(s)! When a Muslim mocks Jesus or teaches children that Christians and Jews are infidels and subhuman (like in Saudi Arabia) you never see a Christian blowing up a mosque.

Why are Muslims so much more sensitive and militant?

[LSD]

Why are Muslims so much more sensitive and militant?

It's a result of two centuries of European colonialism and imperialism.

Christians are used to being the ones in charge, so when they're made fun of, they can alwyas cheer themselves up by reminding themselves that they're the masters of the world.

Muslims, for the most part, have no such luck. Furthermore they've learned the hard way that verbal attacks against their culture and religion are often a prelude to physical attacks against their persons.

It's the same reason that blacks are more sensitive to racism than whites. White people are, technically, almost as likely to be hated because of their race as black people, but that hatred is far less likely to seriously affect their lives.

[mauvaise foi]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 04:13 AM
When a Muslim mocks Jesus
Muslims wouldn't mock Jesus. Jesus (Isa) is revered as a prophet in Islam, second only to Mohammed. He was, according to the Quran, born from the Virgin Mary (Marium), who is also revered by Muslims, and he performed many miracles. Your ignorance of Islam is amusing.

[JC1]

never see a Christian blowing up a mosque.

Fuck i wish they did mayne. Stop killin' young women in abortion clinc, start blowin up mullah.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 04:13 AM
Why are Muslims so much more sensitive and militant?
Personally I think their religion makes them that way; they believe that they are right, and no one has the right to make fun of them, or undermine their beliefs, and violence isn't seen as violence but as fighting the unholy kaffirs.

This should be no surprise, I mean can a religion that's core ideology is based on the sword and on violence, be expected to act in a civilized manner when faced with criticism and mockery?

[TTe5]

It's a result of two centuries of European colonialism and imperialism.

Christians are used to being the ones in charge, so when they're made fun of, they can alwyas cheer themselves up by reminding themselves that they're the masters of the world.

No, Christianity's core message is peace, turn the other cheek, etc.


Muslims, for the most part, have no such luck. Furthermore they've learned the hard way that verbal attacks against their culture and religion are often a prelude to physical attacks against their persons.

That doesn't excuse them from violently killing people because of what someone said.

I'm sure that the Pope's remarks were a prelude to an invasion - look at the huge Vatican army.

[ZX3]

Originally posted by mauvaise foi+Sep 17 2006, 08:27 PM--> (mauvaise foi @ Sep 17 2006, 08:27 PM)
[email protected] 17 2006, 04:13 AM
When a Muslim mocks Jesus
Muslims wouldn't mock Jesus. Jesus (Isa) is revered as a prophet in Islam, second only to Mohammed. He was, according to the Quran, born from the Virgin Mary (Marium), who is also revered by Muslims, and he performed many miracles. Your ignorance of Islam is amusing. [/b]
Islam's ignorance of Christianity seems far worse. The Pope basically quotes a text saying Mohammed was irrational- and Moslems respond by attacking Greek Orthodox and Episcopalian churches.

[LSD]

No, Christianity's core message is peace, turn the other cheek, etc.

:rolleyes:

I forgot I was talking to a restricted member. The "core message" of Christianity is irrelevent to this discussion, as is that of Islam.

This isn't about theology, it's about identity.


That doesn't excuse them from violently killing people because of what someone said.

I didn't say it did. I said it explains it.

[Jiub]

Why are Muslims so much more sensitive and militant?

My history teacher says it is beceause it is a younger religion, Islam was created 500 years after Christianity. And look at Christianity 500 years ago, inquisition, crusades etc.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 10:13 PM
Why is it that Muslims in general are so much more sensitive about their religion than most Christians or Jews? Christianity is mocked and made fun of daily, but the one time a Christian leader says something that is historically accurate about Islam that Muslims do not like there is a huge backlash. Not even vocal backlash - there is violent backlash. Just because the Pope quoted a Byzantine emperor who 'dissed' Muhammed militant Muslims set off bombs at (I can't remember if it was one or several) church(s)! When a Muslim mocks Jesus or teaches children that Christians and Jews are infidels and subhuman (like in Saudi Arabia) you never see a Christian blowing up a mosque.

Why are Muslims so much more sensitive and militant?
"Muslims in general"? Is the reaction you describe really coming from Muslims in general?

None of these demonstrations have been particularly huge; I saw one news item mentioning rallies of "hundreds" in Iran - mostly theological students, apparently. And certainly those committing acts of violence against Christians have been only the worst elements of the ultraright - al-Qaeda and so forth.

Even a leader of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood - a more moderately rightist political group - was quoted in the news today saying the anger was justified but would soon blow over, and "Our relations with Christians should remain good, civilized and co-operative."

There are, of course, ultrarightists in Europe who've committed similar acts of bigoted violence against Muslims - sometimes on a large scale, as in Bosnia.

As I point out in another thread (with the text of Ratzinger's speech), there is reason to condemn those comments, which occur in the context of anti-immigrant politics in Europe. It's not surprising that many Muslims are justifiably angry about it; in part for the reason Ace points out. And it's not only Muslims who've criticized them.

But the overblown reaction, and particularly the acts of violence against Christians, are not the reaction of "Muslims in general."

(That was true of the Danish cartoon controversy, also; the protests were largely small, and mostly organized by repressive governments seeking to outflank the "Islamist" opposition and to give free speech a bad name as "anti-Islamic.")

[Orion999]

Once again, the Muslim world has erupted into violent "death to the west" protests all over th muslim world. The Pope says one line, in a speech that had nothing to do with Islam. He reffered to an 9th century pope that said Islam would spread their face across the entire world by the sword.

It is really is hilarious how the pope says one little statement that Islam has a violent imperialistic past (which is undoubt fully true) and the whole muslim world starts screaming for the death of all christain and westerns. They are killing nuns and missionarys now, There leading religous figures constantly call for the annialaition of America and when we make one little comment about them and they use this as a justification to kill everybody. If the U.S. were to react like Islam, we would wipe them all out.

How can you commys really support thes islamofacist? They are completely irrrational and they will kill or convert everyone on the planet if given the chance.

[The Sloth]

no one here supports the islamofascists.

sometimes, though, we don't want to see muslims killed.. depending on the situation, of course.

[Janus]

Merged

[Avtomatov]

and when we make one little comment about them

Oh, Orion999, it sounds like you have an Us vs Them mentality.

When you say "we", do you meen westerners? Catholics? White people?

[Red Ivan]

I don't know but they've burnt buildings because of cartoons.

Perhaps the Religion is to, Aggresive.

[Avtomatov]

*Delete this*

[loveme4whoiam]

Perhaps the Religion is to, Aggresive. [sic]
Oh yes, compared to good old warm and fuzzy Christianity, which provoked hundreds of years of crusades, not to mention the violent regressive actions of far-right Christians still going on today.

I can understand Muslims getting angry, but will never condone the reaction of violence. I think Ace was right on target with his explanation.

[VonClausewitz]

Avtomatov;


When you say "we", do you meen westerners? Catholics? White people?

I think that the chap might have meant none-fanatical Muslims, and other assorted sane people ?

Severian;



"Muslims in general"? Is the reaction you describe really coming from Muslims in general?

The reaction is coming from the Muslims that matter; the fanatics. The very-nice-gents-honest regular faithful don't burn and bomb places, but they don't ever do anything to stop their fellows from doing so.


But the overblown reaction, and particularly the acts of violence against Christians, are not the reaction of "Muslims in general."


Quite true, but again, there were the actions of the Muslims that matter, those who create the world-view of their religion as barbarous and deserving of nothing good. As long as the rest of the Islamic world allows these few to lead their image, so people will be fair to assume that Islam isn't exactly the best thing since sliced bread.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:47 AM
Severian;



"Muslims in general"? Is the reaction you describe really coming from Muslims in general?

The reaction is coming from the Muslims that matter; the fanatics.
"No true Scotsman" fallacy.


The very-nice-gents-honest regular faithful don't burn and bomb places, but they don't ever do anything to stop their fellows from doing so.

A very different assertion from TTe5's. The world would be a different place if "Muslims in general" did "burn and bomb places."

But also a false assertion. Most Islamists are primarily engaged in conflict within the Muslim world. Most jihadists, even. Those, like al-Qaeda, who target the "far enemy", are a minority. (And regarded as dangerously counterproductive even by most jihadists.)

Most fundamentalist are combating other Muslims...and that's who's combating them.

[Zero]

Originally posted by "Orion999"+--> ("Orion999")Once again, the Muslim world has erupted into violent "death to the west" protests all over th muslim world.[/b]
Oh jeee, I wonder why. If I came into your house, raped your wife, stole everything worth more than ten dollars, kicked your dog, shoved a stake up your ass, and took your roof off; would that make you angry?



Originally posted by "Orion999"+--> ("Orion999")The Pope says one line, in a speech that had nothing to do with Islam. He reffered to an 9th century pope that said Islam would spread their face across the entire world by the sword.[/b]
Ohh jee. That sounds like every other religion. The Crusades, 3rd world missionaries, assorted holy wars, etc.

("Orion999")It is really is hilarious how the pope says one little statement that Islam has a violent imperialistic past (which is undoubt fully true) and the whole muslim world starts screaming for the death of all christain and westerns.[/b][/quote]
Oh wow, the Pope is in a position to say that. Does anyone remember the Spanish Inquisition? Catholicism, Christianity, Islamism... every religion that has been in the position to do so has persecuted and killed each other has done so over the course of Human history. There is no such thing as a "innocent" religion.

("Orion999")They are killing nuns and missionarys now, There leading religous figures constantly call for the annialaition of America and when we make one little comment about them and they use this as a justification to kill everybody. If the U.S. were to react like Islam, we would wipe them all out.[/b][/quote]
Thats because we have a semi-secular state. We question our actions to some degree. A Theocratic state is run by a religion, and religions always have a imediate resolution and justification; therefore they don't question their actions. Any threat against them is a threat against their religion. As for killing nuns and missionaries, if a Fascist came into my house with Mussolini's collected works and started trying to convert me and my family I'd give him the shotgun treatment.


"Orion999"@
How can you commys really support thes islamofacist?
We don't "support" Islamism. I fucking hate it, just as much as Christianity and Catholicism. It's just a psychoreactive metaphysical drug given to supress the people against the government.

How convenient is it that on Earth you may endure everything, but after you are subjected to everything we have here you get to be in a perfect wonderland after you die? :lol:


"Orion999"
They are completely irrrational and they will kill or convert everyone on the planet if given the chance.
This is a perfect phrase. This is true about Christianity, Catholicism, Islamism, Judisim, etc...

[Darth Revan]

People in the Muslim countries are usually extremely poor there are only few rich people the only way they make money is by selling oil once that's gone there doomed anyway they have nothing but their religion most of them don't have TVs radios computers the only thing they have is their religion they believe that Islam is the answer to all you're problems their reactions are extreme as you have seen they have killed an Italian catholic nurse in Jordan and burning flags(randomly) and the protest weren't small i saw them on TV it was pretty big and its all over the Middle East

[Raj Radical]

Originally posted by mauvaise foi+Sep 17 2006, 08:27 PM--> (mauvaise foi @ Sep 17 2006, 08:27 PM)
[email protected] 17 2006, 04:13 AM
When a Muslim mocks Jesus
Muslims wouldn't mock Jesus. Jesus (Isa) is revered as a prophet in Islam, second only to Mohammed. He was, according to the Quran, born from the Virgin Mary (Marium), who is also revered by Muslims, and he performed many miracles. Your ignorance of Islam is amusing. [/b]
Of course they wouldnt, but that doenst give them any excuse to fucking go insane whenever somebody says anything about their prophet.

Not to mention that I can't find it in myself to hold any respect for any religion that condones beating your wife.

Fuck religion.

[Raisa]

Militiant Islam is a response to imperialism.

The first "militiant' muslims were against the pagans in the Prophets time who persecuted people from not worshipping rocks with them. But since then it developed into what it is today as a response to imperialism.