Something I've been pondering on

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Why was Che shot or hurt all the time, when apparently folks like Raúl and Fidel never seem to have gotten shot? In Cuba, Che got shot in the foot, in the hip (not sure about that one?), and also in the face (his own mistake at the invasion of the bay of pigs?) and neck (not long after the landing), where the last two bruised him...

Rarely heard of others getting shot. Was Harry Villegas, for instance, ever shot or hurt? Marcos?

And then, IIRC, he also climbed up a wall and fell down, so he had to wear a bandage for some time.

By the way did Che ever got those bullets out or did the bullets enter through his body?

[More Fire for the People]

He probably had a slower reaction time due to exhaustion and out-of-breathness. A typical problem for asthmatics.

[Red Menace]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 15 2006, 03:43 PM
He probably had a slower reaction time due to exhaustion and out-of-breathness. A typical problem for asthmatics.
agreed,

it meant he was probably doing more of the fighting, that he was in the frontlines, fighting the enemy, think about that.
but it can't be summed up into, why did this guy get shot, and this guy didn't? Its not like where this guy was stupid and the other one was smart, so obviously the dumb guy got shot, it isn't like that. It was a battlefield, anyone could have been shot, at any point in time. Che just happend to be in the path of the bullet.

[BreadBros]

Uh, how about: he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think thats why most people tend to be shot.

[encephalon]

Che put himself in danger a lot more frequently than most people would.. some would call him brave, some would call him stupid for it.

But that doesn't change the essential nature of it. The thing is, Che had a lot more passion for freedom than many of the most ardent communists, and I think that's why he sticks out as a "model revolutionary." He didn't value his life as much as he valued the life of everyone, and in contrast to most circumstances he actually practiced that passion. It's why he was often portrayed as the ideal human being: self-sacrificial, uninterested in the self as an end in itself.

Of course, this ignores some very basic facts.. such as his asthma. I myself have a lung disorder that threatens to kill me even if I merely fly on an airplane, so in this sense I feel that I have the conditional experience to say: Che was indeed risking a lot more than usual when he put himself on the front lines. And it could be said (arguably, of course) that Che could have accomplished a lot more if he had accepted his material conditions--most especially biological--rather than fight them. His lung condition did make him more vulnerable to being hurt and caught, and I am positive that had he taken his limitations into consideration, he would be alive today and much of the world would be different (at least, the UN would be different; the material circumstances would be mostly the same).

In any case, he put himself at a higher risk than most rational people; and this is why he was injured so much.

[Red Rebel]

By the way did Che ever got those bullets out or did the bullets enter through his body?

I was under the impression that the bullets went right through him... its not like the areas he was shot were very thick.

[Rollo]

I have the same asthma condition as Che and it doesn't cause a slower reaction ( revolution? :P ) time it just causes you to be really exhausted after those reactions.

[Severian]

Che wrote* that Fidel often wanted to risk himself in battle, and was prevented by other Rebel Army fighters. They recognized his continued survival was necessary for the revolution.

* in "Episodes of the Revolutionary War", among other places.

[UndergroundConnexion]

Somwhere in the book Che a memoir by Fidel Castro, there is an interview in with Gianni Mina. Somewhere he compares Che and Camillo and says :

[Camillo ] was very couregeous but wasnt as reckless as Che. Che seemed to be a man who sought death. Camilo defied death, he wasnt afraid of it, but he wasnt reckles. Those are two differences between them.

So I think Che got wounded more because he took more risks basically

[Big Boss]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 12:59 am
Che wrote* that Fidel often wanted to risk himself in battle, and was prevented by other Rebel Army fighters. They recognized his continued survival was necessary for the revolution.

* in "Episodes of the Revolutionary War", among other places.
That same thing happened during the first terrorist attacks before the Bay of Pigs. Fidel and Che wanted to risk their own lives to save as many people as they could, but the other officers would stop them because their survival was vital for the survival of the Revolution.

http://www.trabajadores.cubaweb.cu/especiales/contra-terrorismo/GALERIA/grande/003.jpg

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 06:20 am
Uh, how about: he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think thats why most people tend to be shot.
yeah that's probably more likely than having less of chance of dodging bullets than Fidel.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

but the other officers would stop them because their survival was vital for the survival of the Revolution.

How can a few individuals be so "vital" to a revolution that they can't be sacrificed?

[Red Rebel]

How can a few individuals be so "vital" to a revolution that they can't be sacrificed?

Agreed. But they were already "established" revolutionaries. People knew them and looked forward to them even if the revolutionaries did not want them to. Seeing them fall is a blow to moral.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 08:16 am

but the other officers would stop them because their survival was vital for the survival of the Revolution.

How can a few individuals be so "vital" to a revolution that they can't be sacrificed?
The Cuban Revolution wasnt a communist revolution, yes there were communists fighting and various other groups. However Fidel was the commanding figure of this revolution, there might have been others who might have pulled it off, but Fidel managed to unite and lead this movement.

If Fidel, or Che would have been killed during their landing in Cuba for example I very much doubt that Raul would have succesfully led the Cuban Revolution.

Moral was mentioned, but also the fact that Castro and Che became important political figures might play a role in this. The skills of the individual seem to get ignored here, as if we are scared to be "reactionary" if we dont deny this.

[Media Tragedy]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 15, 2006 11:42 pm
He probably had a slower reaction time due to exhaustion and out-of-breathness. A typical problem for asthmatics.
Exactly.

[Media Tragedy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2006 04:37 pm
I have the same asthma condition as Che and it doesn't cause a slower reaction ( revolution? :P ) time it just causes you to be really exhausted after those reactions.
Yes, but the exhaustion would cause a slower-reaction time. Asthma would not directly cause it, but lead to it. You go and liberate a big chunk of Latin America like Che did, your reflexes would be a little slow too.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Che only took part in liberating Cuba...what other big chunk of Latin America did he liberate? <_<

[Red Rebel]

He was part of the revolution in Guatemala & Bolivia.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 25, 2007 10:31 pm
He was part of the revolution in Guatemala & Bolivia.
Guatemala was under control of Arbenz, Guevara had nothing to do with the politics there, he was just trying to work as a doctor there and wasnt being too succesful to support it since they tried to force him to become a member of the Communist Party there.

As for Bolivia...we all know how that ended up...it wasnt liberated.

[AmbitiousHedonism]

Fidel fell down recently, does that count?

[Red Rebel]

Originally posted by "Avtomat_Icaro"
As for Bolivia...we all know how that ended up...it wasnt liberated.

Sorry that he tried.