Converting people

[Goatse]

I can easily beat people in "COMMUNISM IS BAD" arguments, but I can never convert them - they just say, "It'll never work!" and walk off. How can you actually convince people to believe in communism?

[Janus]

Convert kinda has a bad connotation there.

Anyways, it generally takes time and is something that you have to guide them on. You can't expect one debate to turn them into a communist immediately.

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

1 Problem I find and recently had to overcome myself is - Even though if people acknowledge communism is inevitable and 100% True and coming soon - then this question comes - "Why should I Care?" , " why Should I be a communist?", and such.

[Iroquois Xavier]

If they hav kids use them as a way of convincing them, the "think of the future of ur children" line never fails. if not just say that they'll end up in poverty and that fascists will take over if they dont help.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 10:31 PM
1 Problem I find and recently had to overcome myself is - Even though if people acknowledge communism is inevitable and 100% True and coming soon - then this question comes - "Why should I Care?" , " why Should I be a communist?", and such.
What exactly do they or you mean by: communism being "inevitable?"
Communism doesn't just happen u know...ppl have to take action for it to materialize, socialism coming b4 and then communism

Anyhow, when u get the "Why should I care" response...ask them what class they belong to?
My guess is that most ppl will tell u lower class or middle class, I doubt u kick it with upper class snobs
(If they don't know, make an assesment of the person taking into account where they live, where they work,etc)
Then, when u know the class they belong to, bring up the problems we all face due to capitalism

If they belong to the middle class:
Tell that sooner or later those on top (bourgeoisie) will begin to openly exploit them like they exploit the lower class
Bring up social security, wars, tax breaks, minimum wage,...to show them how the bourgeoisie will exploit them sooner or later

If they belong to the lower class:
Use their surroundings and life to indicate to them how the bourgeoisie rapes them and their class
Shouldn't be too hard


After they see how they're victims to the system, ask them if they want to avoid/fight the inevitable exploitation they'll suffer
If they do, then tell them to get involved in the movement (or involve them yourself)
Once their involved, they'll either choose to be socialists/communists or anarchists

Good luck

[rouchambeau]

Druging them helps a lot.

Oh, and blackmail. Find some dirt on a person then they will have to join teh revolushun.

[which doctor]

People can't be "converted"

People must have ideas, ideas cannot have people.

[More Fire for the People]

Don't introduce them to communism: introduce them to class struggle! The more a person sees the workings of the system the more they'll see the outcome.

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 14 2006, 10:57 PM
Don't introduce them to communism: introduce them to class struggle! The more a person sees the workings of the system the more they'll see the outcome.
I agree.

"Communism", "Marxism", "Socialism", "Revolution", etc, scares people off very very fast.

[Dominicana_1965]

Well i noticed that if you actually ask the individual about something they are curious about(anything)..once the individual tells you,tell them to research about it. If the person is inquisitive enough they would continue searching and eventually fall in the Political interest(just like i did) ..Interest is a huge motivator.

[Dominicana_1965]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 14 2006, 10:57 PM
Don't introduce them to communism: introduce them to class struggle! The more a person sees the workings of the system the more they'll see the outcome.
Yes,I think that works perfectly because most times it relates to the person's class as well. And it most likely triggers them to start showing interest.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Never convinced anyone that communism is the way to go. I have tried. I've convinced someone to drop the whole God-nonsense, which was very difficult.

[Janus]

Never convinced anyone that communism is the way to go. I have tried
Use the force, Dooga. :P

It's generally pretty hard though it is possible to convince those who are somewhat leaning towards that direction. It's nigh impossible to convince conservatives,etc.

[Delta]

I've helped some liberals loose faith in what can be done through elections, and I've helped some others who are opposed to capitalism but don't know what else is available to consider some other options. It's not an easy thing to do, but it's extremely important.

[Janus]

Druging them helps a lot.

Oh, and blackmail. Find some dirt on a person then they will have to join teh revolushun.
:blink:

The thing that I have found important is not to defend the more negative aspects of communist practice in the last century as people are quick to judge.


Also, hopefully the thread title won't cause a suddent inpour of spam similar to the Religion forum. :lol:

[Tekun]

Since I hang around working class ppl, its rather easy to get them to see class struggle
I just make them conscious of their surroundings and then compare them with the bourgeoisie
Afterwards, they're pretty pissed off for being exploited by the system
Nuff said

[apathy maybe]

It is a multiple step thing.

Get them to see what is wrong with the present system (easy, there is so many problems).

Get them fighting to change the system.

Show them what is still wrong.

(This next bit is the hard bit.) They might be feeling really despondent now, depressed, "it is so big", "what can I do", etc. Tell them about mutual aid, tell them about community organising, tell them about neighbourhood watch schemes that don't involve the state. Tell them about the alternative structures that can be used right now. Convince them to join them.

Tell them about anarchism, tell them what they have been doing is anarchism, explain how the government is not necessary, how the capitalist market does not work for everything, explain that what they have been doing is only the first step.

The next step is removing power from those currently in power, mass organised (or non-organised) protests, revolution.

It is simple really... :)

[Pirate Utopian]

i tried to convert a republican once, he was stubborn as hell and only saw communism as that thing that stalin did, helpless situation even though i was making more sense then him

[Free Left]

Don't tell them you're leftist. That'll just scare them. Explain your view of the world through simple terms and show how life for billions of people can so much better.
Ten if they agree with you just say -"Well, that's Socialism/Anarchism/Communism!!!

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I've made two people communist... one is now a serious communist and the other turned out to be an ass-hole, is no longer my friend, and has very ignorant political opinions.
I also turned a conservative christian republican into a self-proclaimed "moderate socialist" and made him very seriously question his faith.

[apathy maybe]

Another thing. Rational arguments and facts often do not work that well. While you might think that rational, logical arguments are the best way to convince someone, some people just do not want to listen.

So in a case where rationality and logic have no effect on the person, try using emotive language. "Do you want to live in a world where you will never go hungry, your children will not have to find a job, where the government does not tax the hell out of you?"

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 04:33 PM
I can easily beat people in "COMMUNISM IS BAD" arguments, but I can never convert them - they just say, "It'll never work!" and walk off. How can you actually convince people to believe in communism?
convert...WTF? :blink:

Er, yeah.

I'll echo everybody else and say it's best to avoid the words "communism", "socialism" or "anarchism" until they start to agree with what you're saying.

Point out the problems with the capitalism we have now. Then, point out the problems with stateless capitalism, and state capitalism. Then take down the idea of a permanent state in general.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 11:03 AM
I've made two people communist... one is now a serious communist and the other turned out to be an ass-hole, is no longer my friend, and has very ignorant political opinions.
I also turned a conservative christian republican into a self-proclaimed "moderate socialist" and made him very seriously question his faith.
Ok, Zep we are all very thrilled but the question was "how?"

How did you do this? Was there anything in particular that made this happen?

[Morag]

The best way I've managed is to discuss issues they are interested in (environment, health care, education, employment), and using our local dialect, terms, and rather plain language, explain what "I" think should happen or should be done. Of course, what I'm talking about are socialist ideas, but I don't phrase it as such until we've discussed it and they agree- then I say, "you know, Marx had a lot to say about this," or whatever figure did. There's usually a negative reaction, but you can counteract that 80% of the time with patient explanation about the aims of socialism/communism, and assure them that your not crazy. This method works really well, so long as your patient and don't treat them like idiots or assholes, and your willing to continue talking and working with them for a long time, generally individual issues are overtaken by systemic issues, and then they will usually be more open to more radical ideas.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by Revolution is the [email protected] 17 2006, 11:21 AM
Ok, Zep we are all very thrilled
thank you


How did you do this?

Well, the first two were rather insecure people... and I just showered them with rhetoric... something that I no longer have the patience to do. The one who continues to be a communist is a very intellingent fellow, who took my political propaganda critically and is a communist because... well anyone smart enough with the right information can only make that choice.

The one who is now an ass is just dumb, bought everything I said. Now that we're no longer friends, and even when I stopped forcing communism down his throat, he began being brainwashed by society... and like he did my rhetoric, he believes everything he hears. So naturally, he's a super reactionary fuckwit.

The one who was a conservative christian... well we gradually because good friends, and since he was and is politically very naive, I was never very forceful with my political opinions. We had easy-going, simple discussions. He talked and talked and talked about his mundane, middle-class bourgeois political opinions, and I just replied with "well, look at these facts, etc." And that was it. He started becoming a pinko.

[BreadBros]

I don't really think you can convert people. As Marx said, history is created by material conditions, not by abstract ideas. For some people (a minority), capitalism "works". They may be very successful, or some aspect of capitalism helped out their lives, those people will rigidly remain loyal to the system. However, for the majority of people, capitalism has not worked in that they could live a much better life under different conditions. The trick is to find people who share some sort of an outlook like this and are conscious of it. "Converting" them then simply involves showing them how Marx and other thinkers have outlined a very real material analysis of the world and capitalism, and getting them to adopt that framework. So arguing with Republicans is fairly pointless, go for the working people around you, the students etc. Talk to them frankly. Dont focus on getting them to adopt this or that particular Marxist viewpoint or join such and such group, just give them things to read or talk to them. Let them go at their own pace and develop Marxist thought for themselves.

[piet11111]

i have the best story.

i turned myself into a communist !

i was send to a christian school where religion was forced on me.
fortunatly ditching religion was quite easy as the bible was so often contradicting itself and the world so full of crap that it just could not possibly be correct.
and that is is all based on a 2000 year old story of hear say did not add to credibility.

the hard part for me was finding an political/social system that would fit with my own ideas and personality.
it took me many years but when i finally got my first computer with internet access that i managed to stumble upon the writings of karl marx.
from there on i stumbled upon the website of redstar and i got hooked to communism.

[Sir_No_Sir]

Being A Christian and A Communist...or anarchist...or socialist...none of those are eclusive..

[piet11111]

religion and communism are mutually exclusive.

[Tetsuo]

As others have said you can't "convert" people.

If people are already radicalised or beginning to radicalise and you argue your viewpoint effectively and calmly without being rude or condescending, then maybe they might come round to your POV. The most important thing anybody trying to advocate a particular set of ideas can do to convince others of their usefulness is to try to show how the forms of organisation they are advocating can work in practice, i.e. through struggle.

[Rawthentic]

Do you think that it would be effective and worthwhile to go around your community, door to door, and and distribute literature, briefly explaining local problems and connecting them to capitalism?

[Janus]

Depends where you live. But generally, people will ignore you and it would be a major waste of time; it's best to talk to them about it at places where they expect or want to hear it.

[Rawthentic]

shit, thanks for telling me comrade.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

You can't convert people by saying "Everything you've ever believed in is a tremendous load of bullshit." You have to question what they think and provide the facts... allowing them to make their own conclusions. If you give them the right facts, they will draw the right conclusion for themselves. They cannot walk away defeated. Don't debate people if you want to change their opinions. Even if you "win". You will not have "won him over".

[which doctor]

Whatever you do, don't go around proclaiming the coming of some socialist utopia with "food and jobs for all!"