US Paid Journalists to Publish Anti-Castro News

[PRC-UTE]

LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5329394.stm)

US 'paid anti-Cuba journalists'

El Nuevo Herald said trust had been violated
At least 10 Florida-based journalists were paid by the US government to contribute to anti-Cuba propaganda broadcasts, the Miami Herald says.
Three writers have been sacked by the Miami Herald newspaper group for an alleged conflict of interest.

One was paid $175,000 (£98,000) for hosting shows on the US-funded channels TV and Radio Marti, the paper says.

The channels are broadcast to Cuba but their programmes cannot be transmitted in the US under anti-propaganda laws.

Pablo Alfonso, who writes an opinion column for El Nuevo Herald, the Spanish-language sister paper of the Miami Herald, was paid almost $175,000 to present TV and radio programmes.

There is nothing suspect in this. I would do it for free

Juan Manuel Cao,
Journalist

The paper's reporter Wilfredo Cancio Isla was paid $15,000 and freelancer Olga Connor $71,000.

All were sacked by the Herald.

None made any comment.

Jesus Diaz Jr, president of Miami Herald Media, said the payments violated a ''sacred trust'' between journalists and the public.

''Even the appearance that your objectivity or integrity might have been impaired is something we can't condone, not in our business,'' he said.

Castro row

The Cuban government has long alleged that journalists writing on US-Cuban politics were in the pay of the US government.

In July a row erupted in Argentina between Cuban President Fidel Castro and Juan Manuel Cao, a reporter for Miami's Spanish-language Channel 41.

Mr Cao put Mr Castro on the spot and the president replied by asking if anyone was paying him to ask that question.

Mr Cao has now admitted being paid by the US government, the Herald reports.

''There is nothing suspect in this,'' he said. "I would do it for free. But the regulations don't allow it. I charge symbolically, below market prices.''

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

As Marxists, it is our duty to question everything, you're more reactionary than the gusanos when you say shit like that.

Well yes as marxists we should quesion everything, but as socialists we should support workers states and defend them against all the lies that are spread.

Why the fuck do leftists shout down cuba?? FOX news can do it so much better than you. lol

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 07:57 AM

As Marxists, it is our duty to question everything, you're more reactionary than the gusanos when you say shit like that.

Well yes as marxists we should quesion everything, but as socialists we should support workers states and defend them against all the lies that are spread.

Why the fuck do leftists shout down cuba?? FOX news can do it so much better than you. lol
True leftists don't shout down Cuba.

Cuba is not a fucking paradise, but given the conditions the USA has placed on it, it should be held up as a positive symbol, and as a FUCK YOU to the USA.

[chebol]

I'm sorry, but how the FUCK is making it clear that the gusano media is (now ADMITTEDLY) in the pay of the US government "stupid"?

That it truly the most IDIOTIC thing I have ever read. NWOG is welcome to question Cuba, in a sane, rational and reasoned manner. All this thread does is outline that a specific, and much relied upon, source of anti-Cuban "criticism" is EVEN MORE AFFIRMEDLY nothing but black propaganda and that anyone who relies upon it is a fool or a dupe, or worse.

NWOG has clearly learned many things about Cuba through his questioning, but he still comes at Cuba from the angle of the gusano press. This would not be his fault if that was all he had access to in terms of information. The fact that he got genuine responses (as well as the somewhat incredulous ones) removes that excuse, and to continue to accept 'criticism' of this type of Cuba at face value is a terminal mistake.

BTW, nowhere in this thread is NWOG called a gusano. Now, I know that he has been called that before, or something like it, and that he isn't necessarily one at all. However, the point of this thread appears to me to be a reinforcement of the position taken by those who have attempted to allay NWOG's concerns, and who have become frustrated by his bloody-minded stubbornness on a number of fronts - hence the tongue-in-cheek refernce in the title. Here, then, is a nice acceptable bourgeois source, seeing as some people won't accept the accounts of revolutionaries, of the need to disbelieve the shit thrown at Cuba by the forces of reaction.

Or can we now not even provide evidence of the truth of our position, on fear of contradicting those with a fallacious understanding of reality? Providing evidence of US Imperialism's atacks on Cuba is now "stupid"? And we should keep our criticisms of it private? Perhaps we should disavow the class struggle too.

[chebol]

As Marxists, it is our duty to question everything

No it's not. It is to question it, and, then, having received answers, to determine how to 1. understand it, and then 2. change it.

NWOG and others are showing great trouble getting past 1. This thread is meant to help in that. So if you would like to stop acting all self-righteous and indignant, you might want to think about the implications of the information contained in the initial post.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

NWOG has clearly learned many things about Cuba through his questioning, but he still comes at Cuba from the angle of the gusano press.

I'd say that's wrong.

You should remember, I was a pretty staunch Castro supporter some months ago. Now, I am not a staunch Castro supporter. More neutral, because I see things from more than one or two sides.

Not that long ago I got in contact with people who are also interested in Cuba, and who happens to live there/know Cuba. Some of them are Cubans, others half Cuban-half something else, or have lived in Cuba and has married a Cuban woman.

People who take interest in talking and discussing things about Cuba. Sharing Cuban recipes, chatting about things etc. whatever, I'm moving away from the point.

So I got to know more and more of these as time went by, and I more and more got to know how Cuba is really like.

I've learned a bit through all those people I have got in contact with, about things you will never hear about in the mass media; Things you get to know while you spend some time in Cuba.

For example, I know a guy who's Babalawo, a kind of priest in the Santeria religion. He told me a thing or two about Santeria.

Where in the media do you hear about the fact that many of these priests actually take advantage of ordinary Cubans? That Santeria really is pure business in Cuba? And also, how much Santeria affects everyday Cuban life (it's quite amazing, actually)?

That's the kind of angle I come from. From talking to people who are very familiar with the real Cuba.

You see, there is a difference:

If you build your view on Cuba by walking around the streets, feeling the culture, talking to Cubans, living in Cuba.

And if you base your views on Cuba on your ideology. Then things get screwed because then Cuba "has to be bad", or Cuba "has to be good". Because if Cuba doesn't your ideology falls apart. Black and white.

If you base your view on what you hear in the media. You always get a wrong impression and almost nothing relevant about the true Cuba down on the streets, the mentality of the Cuban people, of how an ordinary Cuban often live, the interests of Cubans, is ever told.

And if you base your view on something that is more detached from something else, but still being in Cuba (like sunbathing in Varadero for two weeks, or join one of the propaganda programs).

[chebol]

If you build your view on Cuba by walking around the streets, feeling the culture, talking to Cubans, living in Cuba

And again you assume that some of the rest of us don't do this also. However, we are capable of doing this AND understanding the ideology promulgated by the most active and conscious layers of the Cuban revolution - and are therefore able to understand WHY there are contradictions in Cuba. YOUR problem is that (aside from only taking one side of the above into consideration, and therefore being vulnerable to the propaganda of bourgeois "explanations" of Cuba) you assume that evryone that is supportive of Cuba is either entirely uncritical of Cuba or merely supports it due to propaganda.

You're naiive. And while I understand that you mean well, you remain naiive, which means that you fail to understand the shortcomings of Cuba *in historical context* in addition to simply *experiencing* particular things in or about Cuba. How, for example, do you explain WHY a particular person would be critical of one or another aspect of the revolution, and complain about it out loud, in the middle of the street, yet claim that such criticism is not only not allowed, but will get them "beaten by the cops"? Your attitude to understanding Cuba misses the point entirely, because more often than not it is a very shallow analysis.

Asking questions is a useful way of learning, but asking a flood of essentially inane, and often logically unanswerable, questions is not very useful. Worse, it is making people who might otherwise be able to hold a constructive debate with you about the minutiae of the Cuban situation frustrated. Not least because you often echo the lies and distortions of the gusano press, and make ambit claims without backing them up, while simultaneously demanding that everyone else provide prrof of their own statements.

My advice would be, go and do some serious study of the Cuban revolution, how it was made, and how it got to where it is, and then, ask some relevant questions. At the moment you're out of your depth but acting as if you're not, which is no good for anyone.


You should remember, I was a pretty staunch Castro supporter some months ago. Now, I am not a staunch Castro supporter. More neutral, because I see things from more than one or two sides.

Good, if it were true. But I have a couple of questions. Why were you a Castro supporter before? And why are you not now? What are the reasons for this change? It is fine to be neutral on Castro (although I think it's a fundamentally incorrect position to take), so long as it's not what it appears to be in your posts - cover for actually being anti-Castro.


And if you base your views on Cuba on your ideology. Then things get screwed because then Cuba "has to be bad", or Cuba "has to be good". Because if Cuba doesn't your ideology falls apart. Black and white.

Unless you ideology is "historical materialism", meaning that your ideology is inseperable from material reality and the ways in which it actually changes (as opposed to the bullshit of bourgeois disinformation). It is the worst kind of formalism to fall into the trap of thinking, because one person says a thing which is wrong, to think the exact opposite, which could be equally wrong. It is worse again to try to avoid this, but in having a faulty method for determining the reality of the situation, to fall into the trap regardless. This is what you are doing.

[chebol]

If you base your view on what you hear in the media. You always get a wrong impression and almost nothing relevant about the true Cuba down on the streets, the mentality of the Cuban people, of how an ordinary Cuban often live, the interests of Cubans, is ever told.

Of course. But if you talk to the wrong cuban down on the streets, you'll often get an even worse understanding of how things work. Think jinteros.

If you just go to the beach you'll get NO idea.
If you talk to the tourist-jockeys you'll get the WRONG idea.
If you only go on a brigade you'll get SOME idea.
But can you ever get the whole picture? No. But you can try. The point is, your approach to 'trying' is ignoring a huge swathe of the reality of Cuba- the revolution, how it was made, why, and who by. Instead you merely presume problems - and because the are isolated from their context, they are insoluble.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

My advice would be, go and do some serious study of the Cuban revolution, how it was made, and how it got to where it is

It seems like you think that you are the only one who have;

I (and I would guess many others here too) have spent many late nights reading about Cuba and how it was made, and how it got to where it is. You're not alone.



Good, if it were true. But I have a couple of questions. Why were you a Castro supporter before? And why are you not now?

It's a good question.

I think it started with realizing that there was a world of difference between what Cuban media, Castro and pro-Cuban sources say, and what is really happening. That the "information" coming out of these groups had little connection to what is really happening.

After a while I started realizing that Cuba was less democratic than I thought; less representative of the Cuban people that I had originally thought.

Realizing there was also not only political differences between the population and the regime, but also (apparently) some social and economic differences.

I am sure there are other things also but that is what comes up of the top of my mind.

Some of the reasons I supported Castro still remains today;

Helping other third world countries with advisors, doctors and others, working for closer relationship in the carribean and south america [though I understand there is a sentiment among large parts of the population that the regime is doing a little too much for others and too much for the outside world], helping revolutionary movements and fighting off the South Africans and resisting U.S. influence, the focus on education and healthcare etc.




It is fine to be neutral on Castro (although I think it's a fundamentally incorrect position to take), so long as it's not what it appears to be in your posts - cover for actually being anti-Castro.
Maybe "neutral" is the wrong turn. I guess "balanced" is better.



Of course. But if you talk to the wrong cuban down on the streets, you'll often get an even worse understanding of how things work. Think jinteros.

Of course. I agree completely.


If you talk to the tourist-jockeys you'll get the WRONG idea.

Agreed.


If you only go on a brigade you'll get SOME idea.

Agreed.


But can you ever get the whole picture? No. But you can try.

Once again we agree! ;)


Instead you merely presume problems - and because the are isolated from their context, they are insoluble.

I think you are ignoring what I have said earlier;

That for instance we should look at homophobia in Cuba in context of south american machismo, and not as an isolated problem that has appeared out of thin air. And that we should recognize the Cuban government have worked for educating people on homosexuality.

That for instance we cannot attack the Cuban government for making the economy more capitalistic, for making Cuba a tourist heaven, without considering the special period.

That for instance we need to look at the problem of racism in Cuba in context of history. And I have also said to people that we should realize the Cuban government have actively worked for getting rid of the racism and prejudice.

[Viva Fidel!!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 05:02 AM
Oh shut the fuck up, just because he questions Castro and Cuba doesnt mean that he's a fuckin gusano. As Marxists, it is our duty to question everything, you're more reactionary than the gusanos when you say shit like that.
now...to shut you up. The guy works for Channel 41. I doubt you get that channel because you probably don't live in Miami. I on the other hand, live in Miami. Channel 41 is the channel para los gusanos. The same channel that played a "documentary" on Che and dubbed over his speach at the U.N with these statements, "They must die!, We will continue to kill!!! The killings will not stop!!!!" The same channel who plays a "comedy" show where they continously make skits mocking Fidel Castro and other leftist. Yea....the guy wasn't un gusano. How about you question him first before questioning Cuba or Castro. Who is this guy working for? What is Channel 41? Why did he come from Miami to Argentina in the first place? What did he question Castro on? Find answers to those questions and then tell my comrade to shut the fuck up.

That does shut gusanos up. Because when he questioned Fidel, Castro asked, "who is paying you?" and he said "Nobody! I ask you this because I am Cuban!!!"

And then he admits to being payed off to ask those questions. Yes as Marxists it is our duty to question everything, but how do you know that my comrade hasn't questioned that already?

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 05:02 AM
Oh shut the fuck up, just because he questions Castro and Cuba doesnt mean that he's a fuckin gusano. As Marxists, it is our duty to question everything, you're more reactionary than the gusanos when you say shit like that.
if you are reffering to me, i have questioned, alot more than you have i can bet. because i have had conversations with Cubans in Cuba and Gusanos. read all sources i can(and still look for more). Cuba is no paradise, thats a fact, but it's hard with uncle sam 90 miles away and the embargo.

So...if indeed you were reffering to me, whos the reactionary now (hmmm, the person who assumed before reading any of my other posts, or failed to realize how much questioning i have actually done, OR the person who didn't realize that i was speaking about the Gusanos that live here in Miami)...thats right, im not the reactionary for a little joke statement, but, you for the reasons above listed

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 05:46 AM
If you got a problem with me "PRC-UTE", why don't you send me a PM. This is inane, pointless harassment.
it's just a joke. Im busting your chops because you try to find the most absurd reasons to demonstrate Cuban socialism is oppressive, like the bit about ppl not giving their last name's to the press.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 08:30 AM
Now this is no reason to harass NWOG, give him a break. He just questioned Cuba.. Thats nothing bad! If we didnt question anything, we would be mindless puppets and just as bad as the capitalists! And I agree with NWOG, send him an PM, making this "public" is just stupid.
The story's a legitimate story, and pretty big news. I just added the subtitle as a joke at the last second. take a chill pill.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 09:31 AM
I'm sorry, but how the FUCK is making it clear that the gusano media is (now ADMITTEDLY) in the pay of the US government "stupid"?

That it truly the most IDIOTIC thing I have ever read. NWOG is welcome to question Cuba, in a sane, rational and reasoned manner. All this thread does is outline that a specific, and much relied upon, source of anti-Cuban "criticism" is EVEN MORE AFFIRMEDLY nothing but black propaganda and that anyone who relies upon it is a fool or a dupe, or worse.

NWOG has clearly learned many things about Cuba through his questioning, but he still comes at Cuba from the angle of the gusano press. This would not be his fault if that was all he had access to in terms of information. The fact that he got genuine responses (as well as the somewhat incredulous ones) removes that excuse, and to continue to accept 'criticism' of this type of Cuba at face value is a terminal mistake.

BTW, nowhere in this thread is NWOG called a gusano. Now, I know that he has been called that before, or something like it, and that he isn't necessarily one at all. However, the point of this thread appears to me to be a reinforcement of the position taken by those who have attempted to allay NWOG's concerns, and who have become frustrated by his bloody-minded stubbornness on a number of fronts - hence the tongue-in-cheek refernce in the title. Here, then, is a nice acceptable bourgeois source, seeing as some people won't accept the accounts of revolutionaries, of the need to disbelieve the shit thrown at Cuba by the forces of reaction.

Or can we now not even provide evidence of the truth of our position, on fear of contradicting those with a fallacious understanding of reality? Providing evidence of US Imperialism's atacks on Cuba is now "stupid"? And we should keep our criticisms of it private? Perhaps we should disavow the class struggle too.
Well said a chara. :hammer: :cuba:

[Ander]

Wow, I can certainly see a large amount of ignorant bullshit being spewed throughout this thread.


True leftists don't shout down Cuba.

Are you fucking kidding me? What the hell is a "true leftist?" Oh, I guess someone who does not question anything, and shuts their mouth when it comes to criticism of regimes which are far from perfect. Don't be ridiculous, gusano media or not, Cuba could definitely improve.


Cuba is not a fucking paradise, but given the conditions the USA has placed on it, it should be held up as a positive symbol, and as a FUCK YOU to the USA.

My mother used to live in Cuba during the mid to late eighties, and her reports about it are not great. Frequent shortages, rationing, etc were one thing she tells me about. Her home was tapped, and government agents would frequently enter and sort through her possessions, leaving obvious disturbance to let her know she was being observed.

Want to know a funny story? One day my mom had someone over at her house and she was complaining that she could not change her water dispenser because the bottles (those huge ones) were too heavy. She left the house, and later that day when she returned, the bottle had been replaced with a new one. I guess those hidden bugs really do have their purposes!

Cuba is not Wonderland, and it should stop be treated that way by leftists. Just because it resembles some kind of worker's state, doesn't mean we must support it, that is ridiculous. With that kind of logic, we should also support Stalin because he was some kind of communist. Fucking ridiculous.

We can do better, we shouldn't have to settle for the next best thing.

PS: Leave NWOG the fuck alone. He has done absolutely nothing wrong.

[Rawthentic]

I never said I was anti-Cuban revolution or anti-Castro you fucking altruists. Cuba is not socialist, it is not the type of society we want to emulate after the authentic communist revolution. I staunchly support the Cuban's people struggle of anti-imperialism, but denounce Castro's Stalinism, executions, and alienating bureacracy. NOw, after saying that, you say that I, not a "true leftist", then you can go to hell. As a Marxist, I both:

1. Understand the Cuban situation
and..
2. Know the way to change it is through a worldwide communist revolution, in which case Castro wouldnt even step down, and this by knowing that Cuba is not socialist and therefore not on the way to communism.

[chebol]

Just a quick response, as I'm a bit busy at the mo'.

NWOG - I know that we agree on a number of things, and that you do often see things in context. Often your criticisms, however, somehow become divorced from that analysis.
For the record, I don't think Im the only person that has studied Cuba, however, the level of 'analysis' and 'criticism' that is spewed forth around here indicates that most people with an opinion on Cuba have very little idea about the place and merely echo anti-Cuba propaganda. Your posts sometimes fall into that category too.


After a while I started realizing that Cuba was less democratic than I thought; less representative of the Cuban people that I had originally thought.

Realizing there was also not only political differences between the population and the regime, but also (apparently) some social and economic differences

All of which I agree with - however the difference is understanding WHY this is the case, and how (and by whom) it is being fixed.

hastalavictoria wrote:

it is not the type of society we want to emulate after the authentic communist revolution.

Never said it was.


I staunchly support the Cuban's people struggle of anti-imperialism, but denounce Castro's Stalinism, executions, and alienating bureacracy.

And you fail to realise that the ongoing anti-Imperialist role that Cuba has played around the world is due to the struggle of the cuban leadership specifically Fidel against Stalinism and bureaucracy. This is not to say that these tendencies don't exist in Cuba - it is fairly inevitable in such a small and poor country - but that the greatest indication of the validity of the revolutionary leadership in Cuba is precisely the role that it's played in fighting against those tendencies.

So while you may be some sort of Marxist, it doesn't mean that you automatically get everything right. The perfect example is below:


Know the way to change it is through a worldwide communist revolution, in which case Castro wouldnt even step down, and this by knowing that Cuba is not socialist and therefore not on the way to communism.

The first part is of course correct - the distortions and shortcomings of the Cuban revolution can only truly be overcome through a world revolution (and, incidentally, it will be, and is, improving in steps along the way). The second part is pure speculation based on your personal misguided view of Castro and a somewhat bizarre view that he would *need* to "step down" (as though that were somehow the measure required). The third part, which is apparently interlocked with the first two, shows that you have a schematic view of both Cuba and socialism, and all of your points are predicated on your premise that Fidel is somehow *bad* for Cuba.

And if that's automatically your starting point, you are no marxist.

[Viva Fidel!!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 02:00 AM
I never said I was anti-Cuban revolution or anti-Castro you fucking altruists. Cuba is not socialist, it is not the type of society we want to emulate after the authentic communist revolution. I staunchly support the Cuban's people struggle of anti-imperialism, but denounce Castro's Stalinism, executions, and alienating bureacracy. NOw, after saying that, you say that I, not a "true leftist", then you can go to hell. As a Marxist, I both:

1. Understand the Cuban situation
and..
2. Know the way to change it is through a worldwide communist revolution, in which case Castro wouldnt even step down, and this by knowing that Cuba is not socialist and therefore not on the way to communism.
We never said you were anti-cuban revolution or anti-castro.

I myself denounce Castro's Stalinist Empire and his tendency to eat babies. Not to mention the "evil" firing squads in which they execute and torture 600 people every day. Oh yea, don't forget about the innocent Cubans who are frequently raped by Fidel Castro and his brother (both male and female.) :D

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by Viva Fidel!!+Sep 10 2006, 04:33 PM--> (Viva Fidel!! @ Sep 10 2006, 04:33 PM)
[email protected] 10 2006, 02:00 AM
I never said I was anti-Cuban revolution or anti-Castro you fucking altruists. Cuba is not socialist, it is not the type of society we want to emulate after the authentic communist revolution. I staunchly support the Cuban's people struggle of anti-imperialism, but denounce Castro's Stalinism, executions, and alienating bureacracy. NOw, after saying that, you say that I, not a "true leftist", then you can go to hell. As a Marxist, I both:

1. Understand the Cuban situation
and..
2. Know the way to change it is through a worldwide communist revolution, in which case Castro wouldnt even step down, and this by knowing that Cuba is not socialist and therefore not on the way to communism.
We never said you were anti-cuban revolution or anti-castro.

I myself denounce Castro's Stalinist Empire and his tendency to eat babies. Not to mention the "evil" firing squads in which they execute and torture 600 people every day. Oh yea, don't forget about the innocent Cubans who are frequently raped by Fidel Castro and his brother (both male and female.) :D [/b]
Wow, how childish, really. It just shows there that you Leninists are not capable of having an argument, stuck up in your recycled tripe. Just because I criticize Cuba and not regard Castro as a god doesnt mean that you have to act in such an idiotic way.

[chebol]

Nice Straw-Lenin. Where'd you find it? No, really? Where?
hastalavictoria, stop trying to be an abusive sod, and pay attention. Where precisely has Viva Fidel! claimed to be a leninist? Where have the 'leninists'in this thread shown themselves incapable of holding up an argument?

At a quick glance, I can pick maybe two (if PRC-UTE is one). There may be others. Hell, VF! may even be one.

But what's that got to do with it?

The parody was unnecessary, and childish, but it certainly doesn't warrant your kind of response. In fact, your response actually lends more credibility to the argument that "anti-leninists" are less capable of holding rational arguments, simply by the fact that you try and equate the post with "leninist argument".

So please stop with the recycled tripe of knee-jerk "anti-leninism" (and anti-castroism for that matter) and try to address the issues.

[The Author]

Originally posted by [email protected] Sep 9 2006, 05:31 AM
I'm sorry, but how the FUCK is making it clear that the gusano media is (now ADMITTEDLY) in the pay of the US government "stupid"?

That it truly the most IDIOTIC thing I have ever read. NWOG is welcome to question Cuba, in a sane, rational and reasoned manner. All this thread does is outline that a specific, and much relied upon, source of anti-Cuban "criticism" is EVEN MORE AFFIRMEDLY nothing but black propaganda and that anyone who relies upon it is a fool or a dupe, or worse.

NWOG has clearly learned many things about Cuba through his questioning, but he still comes at Cuba from the angle of the gusano press. This would not be his fault if that was all he had access to in terms of information. The fact that he got genuine responses (as well as the somewhat incredulous ones) removes that excuse, and to continue to accept 'criticism' of this type of Cuba at face value is a terminal mistake.

BTW, nowhere in this thread is NWOG called a gusano. Now, I know that he has been called that before, or something like it, and that he isn't necessarily one at all. However, the point of this thread appears to me to be a reinforcement of the position taken by those who have attempted to allay NWOG's concerns, and who have become frustrated by his bloody-minded stubbornness on a number of fronts - hence the tongue-in-cheek refernce in the title. Here, then, is a nice acceptable bourgeois source, seeing as some people won't accept the accounts of revolutionaries, of the need to disbelieve the shit thrown at Cuba by the forces of reaction.

Or can we now not even provide evidence of the truth of our position, on fear of contradicting those with a fallacious understanding of reality? Providing evidence of US Imperialism's atacks on Cuba is now "stupid"? And we should keep our criticisms of it private? Perhaps we should disavow the class struggle too.

I agree. This was a very good point. And I think this statement can be applied to the study of the Communist movement as a whole in the present and in the past.

People forget that this is a class struggle. As Lenin once said, there is no such thing as having a "neutral, objective, and unbiased" opinion during the class struggle. It is either the proletarian/peasant point of view, or the bourgeois/pro-imperialist point of view. I tend to agree with the former. In the case of Cuba, the proletarian point of view is the correct one, and the bourgeois point of view is the slanderous position.

[Rawthentic]

hastalavictoria, stop trying to be an abusive sod, and pay attention. Where precisely has Viva Fidel! claimed to be a leninist? Where have the 'leninists'in this thread shown themselves incapable of holding up an argument

Everywhere I have criticized Cuba. I criticize Cuba, and I become the equivalent of a capitalist to you all.



So please stop with the recycled tripe of knee-jerk "anti-leninism" (and anti-castroism for that matter) and try to address the issues.

I have, and I have been jumped on by you all. Just because I address the issues from a critical point of view, doesnt mean Im reactionary. Im capable of criticizing and not swallowing everything that Castro the Great throws at me.

[Ander]

Originally posted by CriticizeEverythingAlways
People forget that this is a class struggle. As Lenin once said, there is no such thing as having a "neutral, objective, and unbiased" opinion during the class struggle. It is either the proletarian/peasant point of view, or the bourgeois/pro-imperialist point of view. I tend to agree with the former. In the case of Cuba, the proletarian point of view is the correct one, and the bourgeois point of view is the slanderous position.

Perhaps you should follow the advice given in your own username?

I share the view of the proletarians, that's exactly why I want the best for them. Just because a regime parades itself under a red flag doesn't mean it is genuine or even respectable. Do you think we should all bow down to Kim Jong-il and Juche just because they are supposed icons of socialism? Hell no! Fidel may have begun with noble ideas and I do respect and admire many of his actions but he is an autocrat, period.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 11:02 PM
Oh shut the fuck up, just because he questions Castro and Cuba doesnt mean that he's a fuckin gusano. As Marxists, it is our duty to question everything, you're more reactionary than the gusanos when you say shit like that.
"As Marxists, it is our duty to question everything,"

Except, apparently, propaganda aimed at discrediting the Cuban revolution. Some alleged Marxists prefer to swallow that without questioning it at all.

Including NWOG, certainly. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=53063)

[Rawthentic]

Its not anti-Cuban propaganda. I look at it from a critical view, I dont accept everything that Castro says. Cuba is not socialist, so I criticize it. I defend the Cuban revolution against US aggression, but have the ability to see that it has problems as well. If you cant see that, then thats your problem.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Severian, now you act like a total dick. :rolleyes: <_< :angry:

I asked a historical question on the history forum. It sparked my curiosity. See, this is it. One asks a historical question and you can&#39;t deal with that.

If you have anything against me, then send me a PM, or meet me some place where we can beat each others skull out. Don&#39;t go on an internet forum and drag up months old posts and being such a bastard.

[emma_goldman]

US Paid Miami Journalists to Publish Anti-Castro News

Reuters



Friday 08 September 2006



Miami - At least 10 Florida journalists received regular payments from a U.S. government program aimed at undermining the Cuban government of Fidel Castro, The Miami Herald reported on Friday.



Total payments since 2001 ranged from &#036;1,550 to &#036;174,753 per journalist, according to the newspaper, which said it found no instance in which those involved had disclosed that they were being paid by the U.S. Office of Cuba Broadcasting.



That office runs Radio and TV Marti, U.S. government programs broadcast to Cuba to promote democracy and freedom on the communist island. Its programming cannot be broadcast within the United States because of anti-propaganda laws.



The Cuban government has long contended that some Spanish-language journalists in Miami were on the U.S. government payroll.



The Herald said two of the journalists receiving the payments worked for its Spanish-language sister publication, El Nuevo Herald, and a third was a freelance contributor for that newspaper, which fired all three after learning of the payments.



Journalism ethics experts called the payments a fundamental conflict of interest that undermines the credibility of reporters meant to objectively cover issues affecting U.S. policy toward Cuba.



They compared it to the case of Armstrong Williams in 2005, when it was revealed that the Bush administration had paid the prominent conservative pundit to promote its education policy, No Child Left Behind, on his nationally syndicated television show.



Jesus Diaz Jr., president of the Miami Herald Media Co. and publisher of both newspapers, said the payments violated a sacred trust between journalists and the public.



"I personally don&#39;t believe that integrity and objectivity can be assured if any of our reporters receive monetary compensation from any entity that he or she may cover or have covered, but particularly if it&#39;s a government agency," the newspaper quoted him as saying.



The other seven journalists worked for Spanish-language television and radio stations and newspapers in the Miami area. They reported for their organizations on topics ranging from Cuban culture to exile politics and U.S.-Cuban relations. Many appeared as guests or hosts on TV Marti and Radio Marti programs, the Miami Herald said.



Pedro Roig, director of the Office of Cuba Broadcasting since 2003, said he had sought to improve the quality of news by, among other things, hiring more Cuban exile journalists as contractors. He told the newspaper it was the journalists&#39; responsibility to adhere to their own ethics and rules.

[Janus]

Merged.

[emma_goldman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 09:41 PM
Merged.
Sorry, didn&#39;t see this news post already. :(

[Janus]

Ok, some of y&#39;all need to calm down and actually respond to pertinent issues raised rather than spam or make inflammatory remarks against others.

[Guerrilla22]

I think its pretty clear to everyone that US media sources, especially the Miami Herald are not even close to being objective, especially on Cuba. Fact: most media outlets in the US don&#39;t actually go out and do investigating, they simply report press releases and statements made by the US government, in other words the US media is actually the mouthpiece of the US government.

[emma_goldman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 12:26 AM
I think its pretty clear to everyone that US media sources, especially the Miami Herald are not even close to being objective, especially on Cuba. Fact: most media outlets in the US don&#39;t actually go out and do investigating, they simply report press releases and statements made by the US government, in other words the US media is actually the mouthpiece of the US government.
Pretty objective?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 12:26 AM
I think its pretty clear to everyone that US media sources, especially the Miami Herald are not even close to being objective, especially on Cuba. Fact: most media outlets in the US don&#39;t actually go out and do investigating, they simply report press releases and statements made by the US government, in other words the US media is actually the mouthpiece of the US government.


Yes. In any case media outlets in the U.S. generally view and present Cuba through the glasses of the U.S. government.

[chebol]

An amuzing little article from the Miami Screed, sorry, Herald..... Got this off CubaNews, hence the wee note at the start...



Ana Menendez, who off-handedly discloses that she, too, wrote for
a State Department-sponsore d publication, says here that it&#39;s not
right for journalists in the United States to take money from the
United States government to produce anti-Castro propaganda. Note
her carefully-worded way of taking exception to the firing of the
others who did things not dissimilar from what she herself tells
the reader she also had done. She doesn&#39;t think what they did was
really that bad, anyway, as she makes clear in this discussion.

She fails to answer the question which flows logically from this:

"If it&#39;s wrong for US journalists to do this, isn&#39;t it wrong for
Cuban journalists also to accept U.S. government money for doing
the same thing: producing anti-Castro propaganda?"

After all, who pays the piper calls the tune.

Walter Lippmann, CubaNews
http://www.walterli ppmann.com
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/CubaNews
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =========

MIAMI HERALD
Posted on Wed, Sep. 13, 2006
IN MY OPINION

Let&#39;s not confuse U.S. propaganda with journalism

BY ANA MENENDEZ
[email protected] ld.com

<http://www.miami. com/mld/miamiher ald/news/ columnists/ 15504456. htm>

Last week, two reporters and a freelancer were fired from El Nuevo
Herald after The Miami Herald&#39;s Oscar Corral reported they were paid
for appearances on Radio and TV Martí.

The dismissals have invigorated the opinion industry and subjected
the people of this town to higher than usual doses of hypocrisy.

The most amusing response comes, as usual, from Cuba, where the
official press has been gloating about proof that the &#39;&#39;Miami Mafia&#39;&#39;
and its journalists are bought and paid for by the U.S. government.
It would be a compelling argument, except for the fact that in Cuba,
government hacks are the rule, not the exception. Of the small group
of Cuban journalists who don&#39;t draw a government salary, many are,
sadly, polishing their prose in jail.

The El Nuevo three were fired for entering into the sort of
arrangement that defines journalism in a totalitarian state. Which
brings us to more hypocrites: all the exile patriots who attack
Corral for reporting the truth while simultaneously defending El
Nuevo Herald&#39;s journalists for taking money from propagandists.

Some of the postings on Corral&#39;s blog are scary. &#39;&#39;You will pay
dearly for what you have done,&#39;&#39; says one. &#39;&#39;We are starting a
campaign to have Oscar fired at The Herald,&#39;&#39; says another. That&#39;s
the kind of attitude that makes one hopeful about the future of a
free press in Cuba.

Radio and TV Martí are tools of the United States, conceived with a
singular aim: to undermine the Cuban government. They cannot
broadcast here because of U.S. anti-propaganda laws.

This is not PBS or NPR; this is programming designed to influence
opinion in ways deemed unacceptable for domestic consumption.
Propaganda is propaganda, even when a large portion of the population
regards its mission as noble. It is not journalism.

&#39;&#39;I fully support what Radio Martí is doing,&#39;&#39; Miami Herald Publisher
Jesús Díaz Jr. told me Tuesday. ``The issue is, don&#39;t do it with
independent U.S. journalists. Leave them alone.&#39;&#39;

I&#39;ve never accepted money from Radio Martí. But years after I left
journalism, I contributed an essay to a journal put out by the State
Department. I&#39;ve regretted it ever since. Not because it was
unethical, but because I believe writers -- even fiction writers --
must remain independent of governments.

It&#39;s a conviction born of my family&#39;s own struggles in Cuba and
strengthened in recent years by the Bush administration&#39; s attempts to
manipulate and distort information.

El Nuevo Herald&#39;s journalists are guilty of not following common
sense. Their firings may have been justified. But were they fair?

There&#39;s evidence that these were long-standing practices at El Nuevo
Herald, a place that sometimes seems to operate under rules of its
own with a skeleton staff of committed but underpaid journalists.
Earlier this summer, editors published a doctored photograph.

Díaz says he accepted the editor&#39;s explanation that it had been an
honest mistake. As for staffing levels, he pointed out that every
newspaper would like more resources. ``At the same time, I&#39;m also a
believer that you can always make improvements with the team you
currently have.&#39;&#39;

Far from being a secret, freelancer Olga Connor&#39;s arrangement with
Radio Martí already had been reported in both papers as far back as
2002. Díaz, who was not publisher then, says he hadn&#39;t been aware of
the article or the arrangement. Connor&#39;s bosses, however, presumably
took no issue with it.

Connor (who once said nice things about my books in one of her
columns) can be forgiven for being confused. The rest of us do well
to remember that the &#39;&#39;battle of ideas&#39;&#39; is best left to demagogues
and dictators. Journalists, in a free society, are paid to watch the
government, not to be its hired servants.