Rethinking Crimethinc

[guydebordisdead]

There are two ways out of capitalism, revolution or death. Anybody who tells you otherwise is simply wrong. The US based sub-cultural cult "Crimethinc" (CWC) who mix anarchism with bohemian drop-out lifestyles and vague anti-civilisation sentiment would have you believe that capitalism is something from which you can merely remove yourself by quitting work, eating from bins and doing whatever "feels good". They carry on the legacy of prize-idiot Abbie Hoffman, printing books and zines which fetishise scams, petty crime and useless activist/punk sub-cultural activity like food not bombs, squatting, etc. They are anarchists by name only with little relevance to the rest of the anarchist milieu and no class analysis, let's venture into their secret underground "anarchy club".


Continued here (http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=3664)

(why is there a pic of cliChe Guevara in the background? it's ugly and offensive)

[apathy maybe]

*spits*

Anarchism is a rather simple thing to grasp. No hierarchy, no power relationships. If people don't want to have a class analysis, does not mean they can't be anarchists. Anarchists object to hierarchy, power and oppression, what they do about it makes the difference. Crimethink have one way of dealing with it, you may not disagree with them, but it does not make them any less anarchistic.

Besides, living your life ethically is what everyone should do, if you are an anarchist, that means that you should not support or be a part of large hierarchical organisations (unless you have no choice in being part of that organisation). Not supporting capitalism theoretically leads logically to not supporting it in ones life. Squatting and dumpster diving reduce ones dependence on the capitalist structure, thus making ones life more ethical.

(This forum grew out of a place called Che-Lives. The old forum is now a sub-forum of the History forum. See www.che-lives.com )

[apathy maybe]

I do not wish to deny them their right to be drop-outs and live out of bins so long as they realise they will change nothing by living like this. I actually agree with this. But my understanding of boycotting capitalism is not about changing it, but about minimizing your dependence on it.

Most people I know (or all?) who squat, dumpster dive etc. do not only do this. They have a theoretical understanding as well, they are activists, they organise in their workplaces (if they work). They hate the system, don't want to have anything to do with it, except to bring it down. There is also a much more practical reason to do these things, it is cheaper. You might be happy to work 12 hours a day to be able to rent and put food on the table, but I would rather work 6 and still be able to put food on the table.

[which doctor]

Hmm...

I like reading Crimethinc, but I think it's best when it's not taken too seriously. They do have some good ideas and it is very inspiring.

They are not the solution and the revolution will not come about by eating out of dumpsters, but there's nothing wrong with an individual doing any of that, as long as they don't think that's how the revolution will happen.

The following quote is my favorite critique of them.

"If the Situationist author Raoul Vaneigem was right that those who speak of revolution without mentioning everyday life "have a corpse in their mouth," then maybe its fair to say that those who equate revolution with the lifestyle choices of well-read drop-outs confuse making love with jerking off."

[guydebordisdead]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 4 2006, 02:02 AM
Anarchism is a rather simple thing to grasp. No hierarchy, no power relationships. If people don't want to have a class analysis, does not mean they can't be anarchists. Anarchists object to hierarchy, power and oppression, what they do about it makes the difference. Crimethink have one way of dealing with it, you may not disagree with them, but it does not make them any less anarchistic.
Anarchism is about abolishing the class system, collective ownership of the means of production and decentralising power not as you would put it "No hierarchy, no power relationships".
There are functional hierarchys which will always exist even under anarchism like for instance that of a surgeon who for functional reasons is in charge of an operating theatre etc. On power relationships even chomsky says there must always be an element of coercion, like when you stop a child from doing something dangerouss etc.

Crimethinc has nothing to do with anarchism beyond having a mainstream media styled "anarchy, man" approach to things - little more than anarchy as an aesthetic. As a collective they contribute nothing to the struggle against capitalism and just live self-serving individualistic lives.

[guydebordisdead]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 4 2006, 02:12 AM

I do not wish to deny them their right to be drop-outs and live out of bins so long as they realise they will change nothing by living like this. I actually agree with this. But my understanding of boycotting capitalism is not about changing it, but about minimizing your dependence on it.

Most people I know (or all?) who squat, dumpster dive etc. do not only do this. They have a theoretical understanding as well, they are activists, they organise in their workplaces (if they work). They hate the system, don't want to have anything to do with it, except to bring it down. There is also a much more practical reason to do these things, it is cheaper. You might be happy to work 12 hours a day to be able to rent and put food on the table, but I would rather work 6 and still be able to put food on the table.

Most people don't have that choice to be honest. I wonder if you actually read the entire article, I dealt with that already.

Boycotting capitalism is fair enough but like I said don't fool yourself into thinking that it's resistance or that you can boycott your way out of a social relationship. Crimethinc sells this lie, therefore crimethinc is bourgeois.

[YSR]

I've got a few of their films, which are pretty kickass.

And I agree with their "Fighting for our Lives: An Anarchist Primer" except for a few words. If only it didn't have that sentence or two about how rich people are oppressed by their wealth and status, we would be in total agreement.

I know they're post-leftists, which is of course stupid. But I will grant them that they're damn good writers. Seriously. Us class-struggle anarchos could really use a pen like theirs.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Young Stupid [email protected] 4 2006, 12:34 PM
I know they're post-leftists, which is of course stupid.
Why is it stupid?

[guydebordisdead]

Originally posted by Young Stupid [email protected] 4 2006, 05:34 PM
I've got a few of their films, which are pretty kickass.

And I agree with their "Fighting for our Lives: An Anarchist Primer" except for a few words. If only it didn't have that sentence or two about how rich people are oppressed by their wealth and status, we would be in total agreement.

I know they're post-leftists, which is of course stupid. But I will grant them that they're damn good writers. Seriously. Us class-struggle anarchos could really use a pen like theirs.
The films are crap.

Fighting for our lives is crap and has almost nothing to do with anarchism.

Post-leftism has nothing new to say. It's just punks being academic.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Finally a good critique of post leftism. I was actually working on a similar project, but I see thats no longer necessary.

[YSR]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 06:05 PM
The films are crap.

Fighting for our lives is crap and has almost nothing to do with anarchism.

Post-leftism has nothing new to say. It's just punks being academic.
omglol, u totaly got me!!

[inquisitive_socialist]

i would say anyone who can see the lie of the system for what it is should be commended. so what that they dont understand that boycotting and petty crimes wont change anything. that they are aware of the problem at all is more than you can say for most. lets try to educate those who are close to the truth, not flame into rejecting help and becoming further caught in the lie.

[kaaos_af]

I love the CrimethInc'ers. Unlike most groups, they start with a vision for the world after the revolution and work backwards.

Many of their followers can be elitist, however. There's a few around where I live and I really hate them. Passionately. But in general, I feel that CrimethInc has made anarchism a great deal more accessable for young people coming into the movement- kinda like you start with crimethinc before moving onto the heavy-duty theory.

[black magick hustla]

Some of their ideas are alright.

They do make valuable criticism on capitalism, and I am sure even class struggle communists could benefit from such ideas.

However their approach for revolution is bullshit.

[Hiero]

Squating only emulates the homeless and poorly housed. It's a obsession with trying to live indepently, so you live poorly. Living poorly, leaving a job or a reasonable home is not liberation. At the same time, progressive groups are trying to improve the situation of homeless and poor housed people. I'm sure these people do not feel liberated in any way.

In the case of squating these people still do it with safety nets. Like acces to health care. Or since they are not a forced into this situation, the police are more likely to move them from a dangerious situation. Where in the case of poor people they are often ignored. Even on this forum some people have squated, yet go to uni, parties, night clubs.

I don't think squating or other lifestylist movements should be analysed within the context of the working class movement. Rather analysed as subculture of personal liberation. Also it shouldn't be analysed in the large context of homelessness and people with inadequate housing. Rather compared ideas between the two.