Das Kapital is boring

[Avtomatov]

Its so boring and repetitive. Why does marx repeat things so much? I understood it all the first time he said it and it makes sense. But i dont know if i can take it anymore having to read so much filler.

[red team]

Comics might be more to your tastes then

The Red Star (http://www.archangel-studios.com/comics/redstar/frame.htm)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/61/TT2038.jpg

[which doctor]

When reading dry political theory, it may be useful to apply the exclamation point test from time to time, to determine if the material you are reading is actually relevant to your life. To apply this test, simply go through the text replacing all the punctuation marks at the end of sentences with exclamation marks. If the results sound absurd when read alouf, then you know you are wasting your time.

[Zingu]

Try reading David Ricardo first, its easier and will give you the basic ideas as a grounding before reading Capital.

[Comrade-Z]

Marx's language is kind of old-fashioned and esoteric. It takes some getting used to. And the first 3 chapters are the worst. But if you don't like slogging through the original, don't sweat it. There are plenty of clever summaries that do probably an even better job at explaning it in much less time.

[Marion]

I started reading Capital by starting at the final section, the bit about primitive accumulation and then carrying on from that to the start of the book proper. The stuff on primitive accumulation is not only the most easily accessible bit of the book, but, by starting with it, you're placing the actual struggle to avoid the imposition of capital first. Don't know if this would work for everyone though!

[Umoja]

Maybe if someone did an official retranslation, it'd get read more.

I just feel that people spoke a bit different in 1890 (or whenever it was translated into English), and if it were just retranslated into more contemporary english it'd be more accessible. Sort of like the very new versions of the Christian Bible, which I admit do sacrifice some content for clarity.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Yeah Marx and communist literature can be a really tough read if you have no basic knowledge and/or simply don't care which os why alot of people are ignorant about communism

[Avtomatov]

Its not tough for me to understand. I understood General and Special Relativity when I was 13. Im into the 3rd chapter of das kapital now and it is getting more intiresting.

[The Rover]

After you've read the communist manifesto, go back and reread it, but replace the word proletariat with "drunken circus clowns".

For when you're bored, it makes boring political reading fun!

[razboz]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 2 2006, 08:02 PM
After you've read the communist manifesto, go back and reread it, but replace the word proletariat with "drunken circus clowns".

For when you're bored, it makes boring political reading fun!
That sounds fun. Also replace the words "Capital" with "Pie".

[The Rover]

That sounds fun. Also replace the words "Capital" with "Pie".




I'll try that

[The Rover]

I'd also like someone to come up with something to replace the words burgeois and burgeoisie. They appear too many times to ignore.

[More Fire for the People]

Of course it is boring, it is Marx's polemic against the bourgeois economists and thus written for the comprehension of bourgeois economists.

[Comrade Kurtz]

Is Das Kapital worth the time? I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't read it (merely excerpts). My reading list has piled up and it seems like just another long-winded out-dated justification of communism. Will I still appreciate it even if I'm not a big Marx fan?

[Raisa]

Oh well, working for capitalists is boring.

[Sa'd al-Bari]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 03:13 PM
Its not tough for me to understand. I understood General and Special Relativity when I was 13. Im into the 3rd chapter of das kapital now and it is getting more intiresting.
Yes, you have to understand Marx’s methodology. He starts from the abstract concepts and builds on it to form a basis for concrete explanation. So in that light you can see how it gets off to a bit of a slow start.

[Invader Zim]

Marx's writting is boring, I agree.

Nearly all writting based on economics and ideology are boring.

[Zingu]

I find it the most interesting and exciting things I have ever read!

[bunk]

Didn't bother finishing it

[Avtomatov]

Its actually pretty intiresting now that im past the first chapter.

[LoneRed]

Comrades out there saying they didnt finish it, that its boring, well the know what marxism is, is to read Das kapital and understand it, not just the summaries which many times get things wrong. Yes its hard, and dry but once its finished youll a million times accomplished

[guydebordisdead]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 10:34 PM
Its so boring and repetitive. Why does marx repeat things so much? I understood it all the first time he said it and it makes sense. But i dont know if i can take it anymore having to read so much filler.
If you think he's repeating himself you probably don't understand what he's saying. Don't worry though most Marxists don't understand what Marx was saying, you'll fit right in.

[encephalon]

You have to remember, it was written over a century ago. To put that in context, 200 years ago: grammar guides still insisted that speakers say thou, thee, etc.

Also, keep in mind that it was originally written in german, and as such it doesn't always translate well.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 2 2006, 08:02 PM
After you've read the communist manifesto, go back and reread it, but replace the word proletariat with "drunken circus clowns".


Or, he could go out and get munterd.

Anyway on topic, is there a "street das kapital" ? I certainly hope not. But if the bible gets a hip-new makover, I don't see why other works shouldn't. *tries to imagine a street mein-kampf*

Hitler with a backward cap?

Im going back to sleep now.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 12:26 AM
Comrades out there saying they didnt finish it, that its boring, well the know what marxism is, is to read Das kapital and understand it, not just the summaries which many times get things wrong. Yes its hard, and dry but once its finished youll a million times accomplished
I have read it and I didn't feal anything except bored.

I have also read Mussolini's autobiography, Ciano's diary, a vast portion of Mein Kampf, Owens A new view of society and none of them are as interesting as the Damascus Chronicle of the Crusades or medieval accounts; and believe me those are boring.

[guydebordisdead]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 10:48 AM
You have to remember, it was written over a century ago. To put that in context, 200 years ago: grammar guides still insisted that speakers say thou, thee, etc.

Also, keep in mind that it was originally written in german, and as such it doesn't always translate well.
It was written in 1867 actually and most english translations would have been from the last hundred years. No "thou" etc.

Also, yes it does translate well.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 3 2006, 02:40 AM
Is Das Kapital worth the time? I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't read it (merely excerpts). My reading list has piled up and it seems like just another long-winded out-dated justification of communism. Will I still appreciate it even if I'm not a big Marx fan?
Yes, it is.

The first book is a requirement.

Be wary of anyone who says it isn't (generally they are reactionaries who don't want you to read revolutionary litterature, or academics who don't want you to understand anything except through their enlightened direction).

Be also wary of abridged versions or summaries. Supposing the book is difficult, you can't be sure that the author of the abridged version understood it. Supposing it is not, what are they for? Get the real thing.

Luís Henrique

[which doctor]

Never read a boring book.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 03:08 PM
Never read a boring book.
Never book a boring read.

[encephalon]

It was written in 1867 actually and most english translations would have been from the last hundred years. No "thou" etc.

Also, yes it does translate well.


From what I can tell, 1867 was well over 100 years ago, was it not? I think you mistook my 200 years and 'thou' comment as literally applying to capital. In any case, language has changed significantly since the 1800s. Even the writing style itself has changed immensely: try comparing prose written by a romantic era writer with modern prose and it's starkly apparent. People have changed with the material conditions, and so has the language they use.

Most english translations stem from the early english translations. As for the translate-ability itself, I guess you could argue that point. However, I don't know about your copy, but half of Volume one itself in mine consists of footnotes, many of which explain the meaning of the word at hand as it was in german--precisely because the meaning does not translate that well into a single english word. This, in part, adds to its dryness.. not to mention the math, which some people find abhorrent in and of itself, regardless of the simplicity of an equation.

[CombatLiberalism]

The People's University (an online university) is currently having a class on Capital. They are going chapter by chapter.

This is the link: https://irtr.org/forums/forum-23.html&sid=0...4f4016fd3f1457c (https://irtr.org/forums/forum-23.html&sid=07ad663072b62c4f14f4016fd3f1457c)

[Comrade Marcel]

First Marx I ever read was Capital. I was twenty, a sometimes lumpen-proletarian proletarian who dropped out of grade 9 but never did much schooling even when I was there, which most of the time I was out doing other things. I always read quit often but this was really the first poli-text I had read. It was an abriged version that included text from the 3 volumes. I know some of the things abriged where probably good things I missed, but we have to understand that Marx never finished the work, so much of it is scetches and notes, so there is going to be a lot of repetition, etc. But it really did open up a whole new understanding for me and 4 years later I was leading socialist discussions on the University Campus... 2 years after that I was taking courses at the University. Marxism literally changed my life...

If you are finding Marx a breaze at 13, then it seems to me you should have no problem burning through Capital and moving on to other things. Discussing things with others is very helpful. I was, and still am very bad at math (I just barely passed a Quantitative Reasoning course) so some parts where hard for me to comprehend. I have a learning disability as well, plus the old style of writing/language... it must have took me a month to finish Capital.

Well, end of my dumb story. Good luck. :)

[RedCeltic]

I also found Das Kapital a difficult read when I struggled through it years ago. Marx's writing is quite dry. Engels's wrting I find to be an easier read once I struggled trough Kapital.

[Yakov Cook]

Wage Labour and Capital (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm) and Value, Price and Profit (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm) sum up the arguments in Capital in a length too short to send anyone to sleep.

Learning the basics of marxist economics is definately worth about 100 pages.

[encephalon]

I also found Das Kapital a difficult read when I struggled through it years ago. Marx's writing is quite dry. Engels's wrting I find to be an easier read once I struggled trough Kapital.

Wasn't engels the primary translator of Capital??

[Shredder]

I read it, and wouldn't recommend the same to others. It's outdated, way outdated. You'd learn far more to read a highschool economics textbook. It's only valuable from a historical perspective.

[encephalon]

I read it, and wouldn't recommend the same to others. It's outdated, way outdated. You'd learn far more to read a highschool economics textbook. It's only valuable from a historical perspective.[

Care to elaborate? While the basic language is indeed outdated, the concepts outlined are by no small degree still valid today.

It's as if you're saying Newton's work is too outdated to be read. Indeed, Newton was wrong about many things, mostly because he was a product of his own times; yet this doesn't mean that his works aren't worth reading. Even today, in fact, most people are taught newtonian physics long before quantum physics or relativity (if they're ever taught), precisely because he had the big picture correct--even though his minor points were more a reflection of his time rather than a scientific fact.

Das Kapital is the same. Many of his observations have become outdated, but the overall concept is the same and many of the details still apply: labor is exploited by capital, and labor itself creates capital. There is indeed a lot that needs to be updated in it; but all the same, there's a lot in it that rings entirely true.