Animal Farm

[homeo_apathy]

What do you guys think about the novel animal farm....and the way it depicts communism/socialism?..

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 06:57 AM
What do you guys think about the novel animal farm....and the way it depicts communism/socialism?..
It doesn't depict either communism or socialism, it depicts state capitalism and the betrayal of the revolution under Stalin.

[atlas]

Yea, Orwell was a socialist, so he wasnt writing about socialism or communism, but the U.S.S.R. and how Stalin F'd it up.

[homeo_apathy]

my english teacher told us it depicted communism :huh:

[loveme4whoiam]

Of course he/she did :P I was told that too, but something didn't chime right when I read it for myself. Same with 1984, it didn't sound like Communism to me.

But as far as I can remember, its an excellent book. I should reread it, I haven't done so for about 5 years.

[PaulMarsh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 07:43 AM
But as far as I can remember, its an excellent book. I should reread it, I haven't done so for about 5 years.
The Trot line about it here in Britain used to be "it is a right wing book by a left wing author" which does not really make much sense.

I think its one of those books everyone should read, to me it is the critique of Bolshevism.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 08:15 AM
my english teacher told us it depicted communism :huh:
Your English teacher is wrong.

Ask your English teacher if they have read any of Orwells other works.

Before you do however, I suggest you read the following essay he wrote: -

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/wiw/english/e_wiw


Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.

Animal farm is just that; against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism.

[Taiga]

We have many threads about Animal Farm:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=48045&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=48045&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=43949&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=43949&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=34917&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=34917&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=31866&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=31866&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=20167&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=20167&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11978&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11978&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11434&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11434&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11907&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11907&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11595&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11595&hl=)

[Rollo]

I was told that animal farm depicted the way the capitalist state depicts the soviet union.

[The Grey Blur]

The Trot line about it here in Britain used to be "it is a right wing book by a left wing author" which does not really make much sense.
Political groups don't generally come up with policies relating to fictional children's stories


I think its one of those books everyone should read, to me it is the critique of Bolshevism.
Napoleon takes control through deviance and luck, not through our "horrible centralism".

[bolshevik butcher]

Yeh it doesnt at all praise the way the bolsheviks lead the russian revolution or trotsky, snowball, at all!

I think it's a fantastic and in some places very funny book.

[MrDoom]

My Brit Lit class will be reading it as a group. Excellent time to refute the political bias my teacher will obviously push for.

[More Fire for the People]

It depicted the common democratic 'socialist' criticism of the Soviet Union at the time. I find it curious as to how Orwell went from being a Trotskyist in the Lenin Brigade during the Spanish civil war to an anti-Leninst democratic 'socialist'.

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 1 2006, 01:29 AM
It depicted the common democratic 'socialist' criticism of the Soviet Union at the time. I find it curious as to how Orwell went from being a Trotskyist in the Lenin Brigade during the Spanish civil war to an anti-Leninst democratic 'socialist'.
Er.

There was also a brigade called the "abraham lincoln brigade".

and certainly, the militiamen there were not "lincolnists".

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 1 2006, 02:29 AM
It depicted the common democratic 'socialist' criticism of the Soviet Union at the time. I find it curious as to how Orwell went from being a Trotskyist in the Lenin Brigade during the Spanish civil war to an anti-Leninst democratic 'socialist'.
Orwell was never a Trotskyist.

[Comrade-Z]

I find it curious as to how Orwell went from being a Trotskyist in the Lenin Brigade during the Spanish civil war to an anti-Leninst democratic 'socialist'.

I think you are slightly confused. Orwell went to Spain with ILP papers and joined the POUM militia. He also mentions staying in the Lenin Barracks in Homage to Catalonia, which was a POUM militia barracks.

I think if kids read Homage to Catalonia in school along with Animal Farm and 1984, an entirely new perspective on the latter two works would emerge. But that's never going to happen. The best you can do is be like, "Oh, you like Orwell? Did you read Orwell in high school? Awesome. I like Orwell as well. Actually, though, my favorite book of his is Homage to Catalonia. You should check it out sometime."

[homeo_apathy]

hah awesome, we have to read it next term and wirte an essay on it...my teacher has told the class it that illustrates the flaws in communism or sumthin...obviously a misconseption...although ill probably fail if i write about this ...owell :P

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Invader Zim+Aug 31 2006, 06:45 AM--> (Invader Zim @ Aug 31 2006, 06:45 AM)
[email protected] 31 2006, 06:57 AM
What do you guys think about the novel animal farm....and the way it depicts communism/socialism?..
It doesn't depict either communism or socialism, it depicts state capitalism and the betrayal of the revolution under Stalin. [/b]
Couldn't of said it better....Animal Farm is based on the Russian revolution and it portrays a list of characters (including the proletariat) involved in the revolution as farm animals

[Honggweilo]

worst 50 page book i have ever read :lol:

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 10:20 AM
hah awesome, we have to read it next term and wirte an essay on it...my teacher has told the class it that illustrates the flaws in communism or sumthin...obviously a misconseption...although ill probably fail if i write about this ...owell :P
You shouldn't do, not if you write it properly, quote from the book and provide logical reasons for your conclusions. If you want to impress your teacher try writing it to a higher standard than they anticipate. Instead of just reading the book and writing your thoughts, read the opinions of literary experts and cite them as examples of alternative interpretation. Also quote some of Orwells other work so you can further justify your conclusions by addressing the issues from a wider perspective.

If you want a hand, send me a PM.

[MrDoom]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 09:20 AM
hah awesome, we have to read it next term and wirte an essay on it...my teacher has told the class it that illustrates the flaws in communism or sumthin...obviously a misconseption...although ill probably fail if i write about this ...owell :P
Refute the teachers.

Possibly the most important thing any high-school commie can do is battle the one-sided dogma in school and present communism to the students as making a lot of sense, after the bullcrap and lies are factored out.

Education is perhaps a more important tool for a revolutionary then even his guns and moltovs.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 03:37 PM
We have many threads about Animal Farm:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=48045&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=48045&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=43949&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=43949&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=34917&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=34917&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=31866&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=31866&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=20167&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=20167&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11978&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11978&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11434&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11434&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11907&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11907&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11595&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11595&hl=)
YES, and could someone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fucking pin this so a new thread is never ever started about Animal Farm or 1984 ever the fuck again? I'm tired of talking about Orwell's abstract anti-communist shit. They are his two worst novels and aren't worthy of being called a critique of the USSR. They are worth reading, but not for any political insight really.

[The Grey Blur]

:mellow:

Calm...the FUCK...down

[homeo_apathy]

[/QUOTE]You shouldn't do, not if you write it properly, quote from the book and provide logical reasons for your conclusions. If you want to impress your teacher try writing it to a higher standard than they anticipate. Instead of just reading the book and writing your thoughts, read the opinions of literary experts and cite them as examples of alternative interpretation. Also quote some of Orwells other work so you can further justify your conclusions by addressing the issues from a wider perspective.

If you want a hand, send me a PM[QUOTE]

thanks for the advice, think i should be right..it's an in-class one, so we have to write it in 90 minutes...yeah i'll definatley research him before i go in..

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Comrade Marcel+Sep 1 2006, 07:01 PM--> (Comrade Marcel @ Sep 1 2006, 07:01 PM)
[email protected] 31 2006, 03:37 PM
We have many threads about Animal Farm:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=48045&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=48045&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=43949&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=43949&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=34917&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=34917&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=31866&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=31866&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=20167&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=20167&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11978&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11978&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11434&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11434&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11907&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11907&hl=)
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=11595&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=11595&hl=)
YES, and could someone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fucking pin this so a new thread is never ever started about Animal Farm or 1984 ever the fuck again? I'm tired of talking about Orwell's abstract anti-communist shit. They are his two worst novels and aren't worthy of being called a critique of the USSR. They are worth reading, but not for any political insight really. [/b]
Indeed, refuting your misconceptions was tedious enough last time. :P

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I enjoyed the text. Whether Orwell went on record about his intentions in unknown to me. However, it can be interpreted as anti-Stalinist. One might interpret it as anti-Leninist and, consequently, anti-Marxiist. However, is basically just rewrites the USSR happenings with a focus on Stalin. Whether you interpret it as anti-Marxist would depend on whether you thought the USSR failed because of Marxism and DotP philosophy or Stalin.

[Pirate Utopian]

i love the book, i also like the movie (i liked the movie since aged 7), i also love 1984