Bible burning party!

[Eleutherios]

This is such a cool idea. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDkzrd4SMoA...related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDkzrd4SMoA&mode=related&search=)

[Free Left]

What the fuck is the point?

Burn a lot of bibles.....Really constructive. <_<

[RedAnarchist]

It&#39;s a good idea, but its only a book. Our real enemy are the fools who believe it and call it fact.

[Lord Testicles]

Make sure to burn other peoples bibles, there would be no point going out to buy bibles.

[RedAnarchist]

What people should do is go into hospitals, hotels etc and get those little bibles that they have in the wards/rooms. Also, here in England in high schools this group comes and gives out all these little red bibles - try and get some of those as well.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 08:34 PM
Also, here in England in high schools this group comes and gives out all these little red bibles - try and get some of those as well.
Oh yeah, I got one of those.

Phone the Gideons&#33; They basically shit bibles.

[which doctor]

This is almost as good as the kids who stole from the nativity scene just because the "wanted to see baby jesus burn."

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 09:39 PM
This is almost as good as the kids who stole from the nativity scene just because the "wanted to see baby jesus burn."
If you’re having a party, it’s always pleasant to have a fire, if these people want to construct it from bibles then so be it. -_-

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 02:27 PM
It&#39;s a good idea, but its only a book. Our real enemy are the fools who believe it and call it fact.
Our real enemies are capitalists, those is power, and religious leaders. Are enemy is not anyone who believes the bible, most of those people are working class&#33;

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

a cleric-burning party is a lot more my style

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 07:28 PM
Make sure to burn other peoples bibles, there would be no point going out to buy bibles.
Yeah, all the Bibles I own I personally stole from a local Catholic church.

[TC]

i&#39;d rather burn american and israeli flags, its more dramatic, more to the point.

[Sadena Meti]

One word:

Reactionary

Get a life, or several.

[Comrade J]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 07:34 PM
What people should do is go into hospitals, hotels etc and get those little bibles that they have in the wards/rooms. Also, here in England in high schools this group comes and gives out all these little red bibles - try and get some of those as well.
Yeah, some old lady on her deathbed who wants some comfort because she fears death, tries to find the Bible in her cupboard but its not there, cause you&#39;ve taken it for your fire. Real fucking clever.
(Though I do agree with you on taking them from hotels and so on, nobody should be forced to have that shit in their room on holiday)

Taking peoples&#39; Bibles isn&#39;t going to stop them believing this shit.
Not that I have anything against burning them, it&#39;s just a waste of time really, I&#39;m sure there are more productive things to do.

[RedCommieBear]

Originally posted by sennomulo+Aug 30 2006, 10:00 PM--> (sennomulo &#064; Aug 30 2006, 10:00 PM)
[email protected] 30 2006, 07:28 PM
Make sure to burn other peoples bibles, there would be no point going out to buy bibles.
Yeah, all the Bibles I own I personally stole from a local Catholic church.[/b]
You do know that a lot churches give Bibles away, right?

My only problem with the church is that it refuses to give away free copies of communist literature in addition to Bibles....

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by Red Tendency+Aug 30 2006, 10:56 PM--> (Red Tendency @ Aug 30 2006, 10:56 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 10:00 PM

[email protected] 30 2006, 07:28 PM
Make sure to burn other peoples bibles, there would be no point going out to buy bibles.
Yeah, all the Bibles I own I personally stole from a local Catholic church.
You do know that a lot churches give Bibles away, right?

My only problem with the church is that it refuses to give away free copies of communist literature in addition to Bibles.... [/b]
what?

[LSD]

Taking peoples&#39; Bibles isn&#39;t going to stop them believing this shit.

True enough, but burning "respectable" symbols certainly can be good fun.

It&#39;s the same reason that people burn flags. No one things that torching "old glory" is going to drive anyone away from "patriotism", but it sure does make a nice statement.

In these hightened "faithfull" times in which we are expected to show "respect" for others "beliefs", a little old fashioned Bible burning is a healthy shock to the system.

It&#39;s not going to accomplish anything, but it&#39;s good for letting off steam. :)


My only problem with the church is that it refuses to give away free copies of communist literature in addition to Bibles....

Really? That&#39;s your "only" problem with the Church?

Sexism, homophobia, the promotion of irrational superstition... none of those make your list? It&#39;s just their literary policy that offends you?

No offense, but I think you might want to reconsider why you&#39;re on this board. Our "problem" with the Church is the reaction it promotes.

[RedCommieBear]

No offense,

None taken.


but I think you might want to reconsider why you&#39;re on this board.

I&#39;m on this board because I&#39;m against capitalism... Just because I believe in an invisible man in the sky doesn&#39;t change that.


Sexism, homophobia, the promotion of irrational superstition... none of those make your list? It&#39;s just their literary policy that offends you?

Rebuttal to Sexism (http://www.everystudent.com/wires/women.html)
Rebuttal to Homophobia (http://www.cathedralofhope.com/homosexuality/)

As far as irrational superstition.. Yeah.. Sure, it is a superstition.. I can&#39;t really argue with that.

I know that I&#39;m a minority of a minority, and I&#39;m going to be on the defense. However, if this is a fundamental contradiction between me and the policy of this board, please inform. And if I&#39;m not welcomed here, I will leave.

(Oh, and by the way, congratulations on your 6000 post)

[SPK]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 03:39 PM
This is almost as good as the kids who stole from the nativity scene just because the "wanted to see baby jesus burn."
Cool.

[LSD]

Rebuttal to Sexism

:lol:

That link doesn&#39;t "rebut" anything&#33;

Abolishing divorce is supposed to be an empowerment of women? :blink: And who gives a fuck how misogynistic 1st century Jewish culture was? What&#39;s relevent today is the influence that Christianity continues to have on social relations.

Look, "Jesus" may have been progressive for his day, but the problem with religion is that by linking its "principles" with the "divine" it stultifies morality and hinders social progress.

We shouldn&#39;t have to look to the 1st century to find someone more misogynist than us&#33; The fact that Christianity is less sexist than ancient Rome hardly vindicates Christianity.

The sexism of Judeo-Christianity is, frankly, irrefutable, which is why it would appear that that article doesn&#39;t even really try.

If the words of the "holy Bible" are so antiquated and so "misinterpreted" that one cannot look to them to "read the mind of God", of what practical use are they? If the sexist nonsense of Corinthians and Romans can be "cast away" why not the superstitious nonsense in John or Luke?

In short, if the "teachings" of Christianity are so easily dispensible, why not the mythology of Christianity as well?

Why not take the logical last step of "cherry picking" and reject "faith" in favour of practical rationality?


Rebuttal to Homophobia

Yeah, I&#39;ve read that stuff before, but how then do you explain two milllenia of routine homophobia?

Whether or not certain biblical passages can be "reinterpreted" (seriously, what in the Bible can&#39;t? Next thing you know someone will be claming that Jesus didn&#39;t endorse slavery :rolleyes:), the homophobic character of the Christian movement is undeniable.

Because of its perverse anti-sex, anti-fun puritanism, Christianity has always opposed any sex that didn&#39;t "lead to children". Sex outside of "wedlock" (which only inlcudes heterosexuals, of course) is "fornication" or "adultery" and "damns" one to "hell".

No matter how much you try and "contexualize" Paul&#39;s homophobic rantings, one fact that cannot be denied is Jesus&#39; insistance that heteronormativity is "divine".


I know that I&#39;m a minority of a minority, and I&#39;m going to be on the defense. However, if this is a fundamental contradiction between me and the policy of this board, please inform.

There&#39;s no "contradiction", but I certainly don&#39;t promise any hugs&#33;

Religious members are allowed so long as their religion does not drive them to make reactionary comments and so long as their religious statements stay confined to the Religion sub-form.

But on this subject, I must ask how you can "believe" in something that you admit to be superstition?


I&#39;m on this board because I&#39;m against capitalism... Just because I believe in an invisible man in the sky doesn&#39;t change that.

How can you call yourself a Christian if you reject Christian teachings on homosexuality and the role of women?

But then how can you call yourself a Communist if you accept Christian teachings on homosexuality and the role of women?

Christianity teaches that suffering is nescessary, Communism teaches that it is wrong. Indeed, communism is predicated on ending oppression and suffering, while Christianity tells us to tolerate our misery because God will "reward" us in "heaven".

Marx wasn&#39;t being "cute" when he said that religion was an opiate. It dulls us by convincing us, not only that there&#39;s nothing we can do, but that there&#39;s nothing we should do. It tells us that our material lives don&#39;t matter, because God is just waiting for us on the other side of death.

[Zero]

Man, I so woulda been there if I knew about it&#33; Damn&#33;

[adenoid hynkel]

What about Bush? Is he possessed as well?

[JLA Warrior]

We shoud not burn such a small but important item in relligion.We will only make new enemies.The problem is on the top.Those men who control the curch and sometimes the whole country they are the problem they munipulate the people and that is the cancer of the christianity for over 2 000 000 years.

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by Red Tendency+Aug 31 2006, 03:56 AM--> (Red Tendency &#064; Aug 31 2006, 03:56 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 10:00 PM

[email protected] 30 2006, 07:28 PM
Make sure to burn other peoples bibles, there would be no point going out to buy bibles.
Yeah, all the Bibles I own I personally stole from a local Catholic church.
You do know that a lot churches give Bibles away, right? [/b]
I couldn&#39;t find any churches around here that did, so I had to resort to snooping around the Catholic church when nobody was around until I found a bookshelf full of them stashed away in a priest&#39;s office. I wonder why the churches around here don&#39;t have Bibles ready for the congregation to read. Maybe they&#39;re afraid people will accidentally stumble across 1 Corinthians 14:34 (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=1%20Corinthians% 2014&niv=yes) or Titus 2:9 (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Titus%202&niv=yes) or something.

EDIT: As for Bible burning "not being productive", it&#39;s not supposed to be&#33; It&#39;s just for fun and for letting the community know we&#39;re out there and we hate the Bible&#39;s teachings. You&#39;d be surprised how many people think everybody either believes the Bible or doesn&#39;t care about it, just because there&#39;s a strong taboo on speaking against other people&#39;s holy books. Burning copies of the Bible is a good way to get the community to find out about you (it made the news, didn&#39;t it?) and possibly look more closely at what you have to say. The point isn&#39;t to make the world have fewer Bibles; it&#39;s to get people thinking about why what the Bible has to say is so incendiary (pun definitely intended).

[MrDoom]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 31 2006, 03:56 AM
You do know that a lot churches give Bibles away, right?

My only problem with the church is that it refuses to give away free copies of communist literature in addition to Bibles....
We ought to send teams out to all the hotel rooms and telephone booths to replace all the Bibles with Communist Manifestoes... :P

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by JLA [email protected] 31 2006, 12:26 PM
We shoud not burn such a small but important item in relligion.We will only make new enemies.The problem is on the top.Those men who control the curch and sometimes the whole country they are the problem they munipulate the people and that is the cancer of the christianity for over 2 000 000 years.
Few too many 0&#39;s there, but I see what you&#39;re saying.

[Tommy-K]

I disagree when people say burning these books is &#39;pointless&#39; or a &#39;waste of time&#39;. Obviously it won&#39;t stop people believing, nothing will to be honest. The point of the exercise, as the guy said in the interview, was to raise awareness. I personally think it&#39;s great that someone is actually getting off their arse and doing something to raise awareness instead of sitting on the sofa, staring at the TV and moaning about it.

[Don't Change Your Name]

I oppose this. If you burn the bible you must be fair and burn all fiction books.

[Xiao Banfa]

Yeah what a brilliant fucking idea, be ultra disrespectful to christianity, alienate people and achieve nothing in the process.

[Eleutherios]

Yeah, we should just give up the whole anti-religion thing huh, so we can alienate fewer religious people? And that whole anti-sexism anti-racism thing too, why should we alienate the sexists and racists? And our arguments against private property should go out the window too, since they alienate the wealthy from our movement. And maybe we can wave American flags around too; people love American flags and if you overtly refuse to fly them you alienate the patriots. Who cares if the masses are deluded? Let&#39;s just twiddle our thumbs and not try to rile them up by telling them.

[Invader Zim]

How can you call yourself a Christian if you reject Christian teachings on homosexuality and the role of women?



In order to hold a basic belief one must follow the secular teachings of a an organised body and conform absolutly to each tennent laid down by this vast belief structure?

In that case I doubt there are any real Christians.

Where do you place Quakers and other groups like them, in this two dimensional perspective of belief, the church and secular teachings?


If you burn the bible you must be fair and burn all fiction books.

Even Harry Potter? :o

[Orion999]

Are all of your lives really this pathetic that you have nothing better to do than have a bible burning party? Who cares if other people want to believe in God, why don&#39;t you mind your own fucking buissness. How intolerant communists are for people who want to live in harmonious communes with everyone working together.
Get a life, please.

[Zero]

To: Orion999
From: God
Subject: Twit

Return to sender.

-------------


Originally posted by "Orion999"+--> ("Orion999")Who cares if other people want to believe in God, why don&#39;t you mind your own fucking buissness.[/b]
Funny, as Bible thumpers have all the rights in the world to call people and preach, go door to door and preach, influence children in schools, badger me on public transportation, hang signs on their cars telling me I&#39;m nothing without their bullshit dogma, and take up perfectly useful land to make extravagent places to hang out on sunday and compare clothing styles.

Yet when I, or my fellow athiests object and hold just as public events as they do, we don&#39;t "mind our own fucking buissness"? (by the way, if you stand for Capitalism, I&#39;d suggest you start spelling business correctly)

Orion, in the end it makes very little difference if you object to bible burning parties. We Athiests are everywhere, and we&#39;re not going away. Nither are we shrinking.


"Orion999"
How intolerant communists are for people who want to live in harmonious communes with everyone working together.
How in the fuck does making a morning club on sundays for adults turn into "harmonious communes with everyone working together."? Church is little more than an excuse to brainwash youth into a subculture of close mindedness so that they will be kept docile, and give up their money.

[Orion999]

Funny, as Bible thumpers have all the rights in the world to call people and preach, go door to door and preach, influence children in schools, badger me on public transportation, hang signs on their cars telling me I&#39;m nothing without their bullshit dogma, and take up perfectly useful land to make extravagent places to hang out on sunday and compare clothing styles.

I live in America and can&#39;t even remember the last time someone started badgering me about religon, and if they did I&#39;d tell em to get lost asshole. But holding a bilble burning party is something loser do. Try asking a girl if she wants to go to your bible burning party. You&#39;ll never get laid if word gets out that you hosts bible burning parties.

[Zero]

Because my primary goal in life is to get laid. I have a singular focus, this one goal. My entire existance is laid in the sole knowlege that I will get laid. Fuck curing hunger, fuck changing the world, fuck having a successful relationship. Fuck everything except for me fucking.


Originally posted by "Orion999"+--> ("Orion999")I live in America[/b]
So do I.


"Orion999"
and can&#39;t even remember the last time someone started badgering me about religion, and if they did I&#39;d tell em to get lost asshole.
Last week for me.

Let me tell you some background information about my city. I live in a place that was rated the second most agnostic/athiest town in all of Oregon. Therefore it has been the various churches mission to get us out of the top 10. This bible burning party was held in Portland (the first on the list) greatly because there are agencies that sprung up overnight that call around frequently. I usually get a call a week from these people. Every single time I tell them to shut the hell up, stop trying to convert me to your ignorant bullshit, and take me off your fucking list, but they will call back next week under a different name.

[Orion999]

All I&#39;m really trying to say is Bible Burning parties are pretty lame. If thats your idea of fun I&#39;ll never understand but I guess have at it. The only chuches I ever really see bother people are those idiotic mormons and jehova&#39;s witnesses, but I don&#39;t live in oregon so I&#39;ll take your word for it. I just think that religon is nowhere near as controling or used to justify evil (at least christianity rarely is) as it used to be, so if people want to have their beliefs just let them.

[Zero]

If you really don&#39;t believe that religion isn&#39;t as dangerous to free-thinking individuals, try going to Google Video and typing in Kent Hovind. This lunatic is busy brainwashing college youth with psudo-scientific double-speak aimed at confusing them into a corner and sell them ID.

[Orion999]

I&#39;ll check it put toomorrow and get back to you.

[Darth Revan]

F*uck the bible i burned mine yesterday in Israel we have to study the bible in school thats why i had one

[Red_Syphilis_Steve]

well, I think we should burn the bibles. I think Harry Potter makes a better god.

[Orion999]

Ask some girls to your bible burning party and see how fast they say "what kind of a loser goes to bible burning parties" that will be a fun game. &#092;

[B] Honestly, have any of you ever been laid?

[Darth Revan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 02:41 PM
Ask some girls to your bible burning party and see how fast they say "what kind of a loser goes to bible burning parties" that will be a fun game. &#092;

[B] Honestly, have any of you ever been laid?
Yes

[Rollo]

Burning the bible is a waste of a tree, bible paper makes great rollies.

[Pirate Utopian]

im an athiest but i simply dont see the point in bible burnings, sure it sounds fun and they have the right, but they dont reach anything, but they are right there is alot of war started in the name of religion

[Acid]

A. My dad is a vicar/priest/thing
B. I am not a christian
C. Alot of my friends dont like the idea of religion
D. None of them would consider burning the bible

Why would none of them consider burning the bible. Becasue its openly discriminate of a culture which makes people feels safe. If the sole objective of a christian community is to be nice to people how can you complain. Yes christians can be very forward in there opinions. But so am I over books I read, films I like, theories I take to heart.

People dont hold a party burning those book, films. Mainly cause they are nice, also becasue they are not sad losers who find fire enterntaining and burning a belief even better.
I really cant believe that during the 21st century you can even consider this a good idea. The same goes for any aspect of life whether it be capatalist, anarchist or communist. Burning a book symbolising something openly good is not a good thing. regardless of your personal beliefs.

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

Burning Bibles is a waste of trees+ all the good material they wasted in making these hardcover, gold-lined bibles.

I&#39;d say put em in a library or use them for something else.

Museum?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 08:25 PM
Burning Bibles is a waste of trees+ all the good material they wasted in making these hardcover, gold-lined bibles.

Unlike producing bibles, which is...what? If not a waste.

[Labor Shall Rule]

Why not just recycle the bible?

[Comrade J]

A. My dad is a vicar/priest/thing
B. I am not a christian
C. Alot of my friends dont like the idea of religion
D. None of them would consider burning the bible

Why would none of them consider burning the bible. Becasue its openly discriminate of a culture which makes people feels safe. If the sole objective of a christian community is to be nice to people how can you complain. Yes christians can be very forward in there opinions. But so am I over books I read, films I like, theories I take to heart.

How has the Bible formed a culture that makes people feel safe? I am gay, I wouldn&#39;t feel particularly safe in a Christian community.

And you may indeed feel passionate about books you read. For example, lets say you loved Lord of The Rings, but your friend hates it. You might argue and try to convince him what a masterpiece it is, and that&#39;s perfectly acceptable debate. But that&#39;s because the Lord of The Rings doesn&#39;t tell you to stone gay people, kill adulterers etc. There&#39;s more than a subtle difference with you being very forward in expressing your passion for your favourite movie, and a Christian being very forward in his hatred for homosexuals, adulterers etc.

The Bible is more than just a book, it&#39;s a symbol of centuries of hatred and oppression.



People dont hold a party burning those book, films. Mainly cause they are nice, also becasue they are not sad losers who find fire enterntaining and burning a belief even better.
I really cant believe that during the 21st century you can even consider this a good idea. The same goes for any aspect of life whether it be capatalist, anarchist or communist. Burning a book symbolising something openly good is not a good thing. regardless of your personal beliefs.

Something openly good? Are we talking about the same book here? As I just mentioned, the contents of the Bible are far from good.

And what the fuck is "burning a belief" supposed to mean? It&#39;s merely the burning of a symbol representing certain beliefs, sending a message to people that we are not all loving and tolerant of Christianity.
Don&#39;t get me wrong, it&#39;s hardly the most productive of things and it&#39;s nothing special, but there&#39;s nothing particularly wrong with it, some beliefs simply don&#39;t deserve respect&#33; Simple as.

If I was to set up a worldwide organisation that encouraged the gruesome killing of every first born child, and we had a &#39;holy book,&#39; would you be defending it if people decided to burn it? Of course not, because the beliefs it represents are disgusting, and that&#39;s how we as Communists view the Bible.

[Acid]

I am openly bi, I have not got people stoning me. Infact alot of christians I know accept that very easily. And the same goes for adultery. I recently was part of a relationship where the girl had not yet split up with her boyfriend because of emotional blackmail. I dont see her being shot or killed in the streets.

Hatred and oppression? yes there are parts of the bible which are openly discriminate of other races/sexualities/beliefs. And slowly as we progress into a modern age these beliefs are being ironed out. I dont see the archbishop of Canterbury shouting to his congregation kill the Muslims or burn the Hindus.

As for the comment on the first born child thing. No I would not condone actions such as that, but I would try my hardest to understand the beliefs of the people and not simply disregard there teachings by throing there sacred book on a fire.

You say that the bible burning is sending a message to christians that not everyone is tolerant of there views. There are so many other ways of doing this without being so violent towards something which they hold sacred.

This is spoken from the point of view of a 14 year old from a church of Engladn household

I have to accept that there are sub-sects of christianity that do condone the mis-treatment of homosexuality and other groups. I find this sickening and so do many christians I know. But again I say that i would not burn the symbol of there group. I dont see it in the same aspect as burning a flag or emblem.

[LSD]

Why would none of them consider burning the bible. Becasue its openly discriminate of a culture which makes people feels safe.

Fascism "made people feel safe" too, that doesn&#39;t make attacking fascism wrong.

Most oppressive ideologies in history have been appealing in one way or another. Otherwise they never would have gained the popular support nescessary to enace their oppression.

Obviously Christianity is popular, but that doesn&#39;t make it any less despicable as a "belief system". And while burning bibles has pretty much no chance of convincing Christians of anything, for those of us who recognize the true nature of Christianity (and religion in general), an open display of contempt can help to sustain us.

It&#39;s the same reason that people burn flags. No one things that torching "old glory" is going to drive anyone away from "patriotism", but it sure does make a nice statement.

In these hightened "faithfull" times in which we are expected to show "respect" for others "beliefs", a little old fashioned Bible burning is a healthy shock to the system.

It&#39;s not going to accomplish anything, but it&#39;s good for letting off steam and great for making our message known.


If the sole objective of a christian community is to be nice to people how can you complain.

Except the "sole objective" of Christianity is not "being nice", it&#39;s preaching the "word".

Considering the kind of abominations that that "word" advocates, its preaching is not something that progressive leftists can easily tolerate.


Hatred and oppression? yes there are parts of the bible which are openly discriminate of other races/sexualities/beliefs. And slowly as we progress into a modern age these beliefs are being ironed out.

How can one "iron out" the "word of God"? If the Bible is truly "sacred" then every line must be sacred, including the unpleasant bits. If, on the other hand, it is merely another work of man which can be changed to meet the times, then of what us is it?

If we can replace "God&#39;s" judgment with our own, then why not take the next logical step and fully construct our "beliefs" based on reason and reality?

No matter which way you cut it, Christianity doesn&#39;t make much sense.


Burning a book symbolising something openly good is not a good thing.

"Good" is a very subjective value. Clearly Christians consider their religion it be "good", but that pretty much goes without saying. From an objective materialist perspective, however, Christianity is a regressive and reactionary superstition which endorses all variety of atrocity.


You say that the bible burning is sending a message to christians that not everyone is tolerant of there views. There are so many other ways of doing this without being so violent towards something which they hold sacred.

The fact that this ideas bothers you so mcuh, though, proves just how effective it is. "Respectable" dissent is far too easily ignored. It&#39;s the spectacular and the offensive that have a chance of actually getting something done.

Again, no one would propose that burning bibles will end Christianity, but it sure does call attention to the reality of militant atheism. We are not "tolerant" of bigotry and repression and we will not pretend that we are.

For the truly devout, however, that message is virtually impossible to understand. Their "faith" is so fundamental to their lives that the idea of rejecting it is practically incomprehensible.

When you burn a bible, though, they get it.


Burning Bibles is a waste of trees+

:rolleyes:

Practically all of the paper used to produce bibles comes from tree farms. No one is cutting down the rainforest to make books&#33;

This notion that saving paper "saves trees" is pure mythology.

[Acid]

If we can replace "God&#39;s" judgment with our own, then why not take the next logical step and fully construct our "beliefs" based on reason and reality?

Ah but the bible is not the word of God. It is the works of countless people who all have different views. And yes you can iron out the world of God. The ible has many stupid psalms in it, most of these are taken far to seriously and are usually metaphors for something else. Look at the abortion argument, in a modern society it should be completely right to abort a pregnancy but it is disagreed with by church leaders on the basis that it is murder. This is why christianity needs progressive leaders who can adjust to the teachings to the 21st century.

Much in the same way that many political theories includng communism are trying to adapt to a modern environment.

[A CLOCKWORK ORANGE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 07:34 PM
What people should do is go into hospitals, hotels etc and get those little bibles that they have in the wards/rooms. Also, here in England in high schools this group comes and gives out all these little red bibles - try and get some of those as well.
The Gideons International&#33; They stopped by my college last week and gave out those mini New Testaments.

[Keyser]

Try asking a girl if she wants to go to your bible burning party. You&#39;ll never get laid if word gets out that you hosts bible burning parties.

WTF has that got to do with anything discussed on this thread?

The irony of this is that religion, and all &#39;holy&#39; books (torah, bible and the quran) are the ones that seek to regulate and/or wipe out any trace and expression of human sexuality.

I&#39;m sorry, but if some worthless piece of shit Christian wants to go to his/her church and sit down with other moronic Christians and listen to some cleric speak of the &#39;evils&#39; of gay people or some other reactionary and bigoted BS, or if they picket the funerals of gay people and shout abuse, then we athiests have every right, beyond debate, of buring some worthless book with a vile and disgusting message in it.

If you can&#39;t get your simple mind around that, fuck off&#33;

[uber-liberal]

Just a quick point here.

Let&#39;s all go back in time to the early 1930&#39;s, in northern Europe. There was a man there with considerable power and very myopic views on the world and what is correct for everyone to think. People believed his rhetoric in spite of their better judgements or through peer pressure and sometimes even by force, and followed his teachings as gospel truth, pun intended.
After a while he held giant rallys, designed to whip the citizenry into a ferver of emotional patriotism and loose all intellectual ambition and eliminate rationality.
After he gave a fiery speech denouncing this group or the other, he would parade troops and children before the teary-eyed crowd, showing them "the future of the Fatherland". He then called upon the citizens to rid the world of the filth that would surely corrupt these young minds, and told them to throw books, art and sheetmusic on the bonfires. Books by his fellow countrymen, like Karl Marx, Herman Hesse and Albert Einstein were burned because of the author&#39;s religion or politics. Open dialogue between differing opinions ceased and many of these "impure people" were rounded up and sent off to labor camps, for detention, corrective incarceration and labor for the Reich. Many of them never walked free again. Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, gypsies, communists, Ukranians and other Soviets, social disidents, catholics, Doughboys, G.I.&#39;s, French and Polish Resistance fighters, anyone seen as anything other than Aryan were mercilessly gassed, raped, shot, stabbed, burned alive and ritualistically tortured for "the good of the Third Reich".

Burning bibles in the name of what is "right" is the first step toward fascism. Disagree with the book and the ideas pertaining to it&#39;s contents all you want. You have that right and strike me dead if I were to stand in your way. But what are you going to do when all the bibles have been burnt? What books are next for Fahrenheit 451? Maybe Fahrenheit 451, eh? Or maybe Smith&#39;s "The Wealth of Nations", Ann Rynd, Douglas Adams, Karl Jung, Freud, Nabakov,Leo Tolstoy, Anton Chekhov, Walt Whitman, Charles Bukowski,"Old Bill" Shakespeare,Ernest Hemmingway,Jon-Paul Sartre, Moliere,Ralph Waldo Emerson,Henry David Theureau, Wadsworth, Percy Shelley, Lord Byron, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Edgar Allan Poe... need I go on?
If you wan to purge what is hurting mankind you need look no further than your own hearts. People can change the world for the better only through compassion, understanding, logic and love. That&#39;s the only way that can sustain us all.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

This is clearly an act of symbolism. They aren&#39;t advocating censorship.

[uber-liberal]

Originally posted by Dooga Aetrus [email protected] 18, 2006 10:22 pm
This is clearly an act of symbolism. They aren&#39;t advocating censorship.
Justify it however you want: an act of this nature is an act of terrorism on the free will of every single person alive and must NEVER be tolerated.

[Cryotank Screams]

I have burned just about every "holy," book there is, so I can speak with some authority on this one.

I believe that the burning of bibles and other manner of holy books is a symbolic act to the individual, and or group that is doing, that said ideology, god/s/ess, spirits, and everything associated with it has no power, it acts sort like a psychological liberator, a blasphemous shackle breaker if you will; it also symbolizes that it is just a book, and not some "holy," writ.

[Cryotank Screams]

Justify it however you want: an act of this nature is an act of terrorism on the free will of every single person alive and must NEVER be tolerated.


ter-ror-ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm] noun.
I. The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

How the fuck is bible burning terrorism?

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Originally posted by uber&#045;liberal+November 18, 2006 07:56 pm--> (uber-liberal @ November 18, 2006 07:56 pm)
Dooga Aetrus [email protected] 18, 2006 10:22 pm
This is clearly an act of symbolism. They aren&#39;t advocating censorship.
Justify it however you want: an act of this nature is an act of terrorism on the free will of every single person alive and must NEVER be tolerated. [/b]
No it&#39;s not. Burning bibles is a freedom. You advocate the restriction of one freedom to prevent the restriction of another one? Your argument is a slippery slope one. There is no reason to suggest burning "some" bibles will result censorship.

[Keyser]

Justify it however you want: an act of this nature is an act of terrorism on the free will of every single person alive and must NEVER be tolerated.

What a stupid and moronic statement.

Are you wholly ignorant of history?

How many people had to suffer at the hands of tyrannies that used the Bible&#39;s to kill, torture and oppress people who did not &#39;fit in&#39; to the Bible bigoted and disgusting anti-humanistic theocratic ideology, the answer is in the millions.

The Bible is more than worthy of being burnt, given the suffering it has caused. If that offends you and your christian friends/churchies then all the better, its about time the religious got offended, after all the rest of humanity had to put up with their BS for centuries.

Burning the Bible is like burning Mein Kampf, both are books of hate and bigotry, used to incite ignorant people&#39;s hatred on scapgoats, the innocent and oppressed, usually at the hands of a manipulative state which has no problem using superstitious crap to tighten it&#39;s bloddy grip on society.

The Bible is not the word of god, Jesus or any other &#39;divine&#39; force, but written years after the christian faith was founded by members of the church as a tool for social control.

To show any respect for that disgusting hate book or any building used for &#39;worship&#39; like churches or temples etc... does no one any good.

No gods and no masters, if you cannot support that concept then I suggest you leave this forum and go somewhere else.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by uber&#045;[email protected] 18, 2006 05:55 am
Just a quick point here.

Let&#39;s all go back in time to the early 1930&#39;s, in northern Europe. There was a man there with considerable power and very myopic views on the world and what is correct for everyone to think. People believed his rhetoric in spite of their better judgements or through peer pressure and sometimes even by force, and followed his teachings as gospel truth, pun intended.
After a while he held giant rallys, designed to whip the citizenry into a ferver of emotional patriotism and loose all intellectual ambition and eliminate rationality.
After he gave a fiery speech denouncing this group or the other, he would parade troops and children before the teary-eyed crowd, showing them "the future of the Fatherland". He then called upon the citizens to rid the world of the filth that would surely corrupt these young minds, and told them to throw books, art and sheetmusic on the bonfires. Books by his fellow countrymen, like Karl Marx, Herman Hesse and Albert Einstein were burned because of the author&#39;s religion or politics. Open dialogue between differing opinions ceased and many of these "impure people" were rounded up and sent off to labor camps, for detention, corrective incarceration and labor for the Reich. Many of them never walked free again. Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, gypsies, communists, Ukranians and other Soviets, social disidents, catholics, Doughboys, G.I.&#39;s, French and Polish Resistance fighters, anyone seen as anything other than Aryan were mercilessly gassed, raped, shot, stabbed, burned alive and ritualistically tortured for "the good of the Third Reich".
:wacko:

So now burning a fiction book written by ignorants thousands of years ago that has been used many times as an excuse to oppress, murder and brainwash human beings (&#33;) is being Hitler?


Burning bibles in the name of what is "right" is the first step toward fascism.

Sure, if I burn my own bible I become Mussolini :lol:


Disagree with the book and the ideas pertaining to it&#39;s contents all you want. You have that right and strike me dead if I were to stand in your way. But what are you going to do when all the bibles have been burnt? What books are next for Fahrenheit 451? Maybe Fahrenheit 451, eh? Or maybe Smith&#39;s "The Wealth of Nations", Ann Rynd, Douglas Adams, Karl Jung, Freud, Nabakov,Leo Tolstoy, Anton Chekhov, Walt Whitman, Charles Bukowski,"Old Bill" Shakespeare,Ernest Hemmingway,Jon-Paul Sartre, Moliere,Ralph Waldo Emerson,Henry David Theureau, Wadsworth, Percy Shelley, Lord Byron, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Edgar Allan Poe... need I go on?

Maybe I should burn this Edgar Allan Poe book I have nearby so I become the happiest person in the world...that will surely teach &#39;em wackos who read him a lesson&#33;


If you wan to purge what is hurting mankind you need look no further than your own hearts.

Well, assuming you are talking to those who take part of that kind of stuff, I doubt they have a bible in any part of that muscle. Unfortunately it seems God didn&#39;t want His Word in the heart of His creation :lol:


People can change the world for the better only through compassion, understanding, logic and love. That&#39;s the only way that can sustain us all.

You&#39;re at most 25% rational, my delusional hippie friend...

[uber-liberal]

So now burning a fiction book written by ignorants thousands of years ago that has been used many times as an excuse to oppress, murder and brainwash human beings (&#33;) is being Hitler?

Yes, it is. I don&#39;t buy into religious dogma either, but if you think burning a bible, yours or otherwise, will make the world a better place, you&#39;re mistaken.


Sure, if I burn my own bible I become Mussolini

If you burn ANY book you start down that path. The only way you can be free from religion is to understand it, not destroy it.


Maybe I should burn this Edgar Allan Poe book I have nearby so I become the happiest person in the world...that will surely teach &#39;em wackos who read him a lesson&#33;

You start with the bible, where to next?



Well, assuming you are talking to those who take part of that kind of stuff, I doubt they have a bible in any part of that muscle. Unfortunately it seems God didn&#39;t want His Word in the heart of His creation

I&#39;m talking to everyone here who supports such a fucked up resolution to their disapproval of the christian faith. I&#39;m an atheist buddhist myself. I&#39;m not so arrogant as to think that this modern life is more enlightened that my ancestors&#39; lives were, but I realized we don&#39;t need a god to direct our lives (Nietzsche, "God is dead..."), but limiting people&#39;s access to information, even in effigy, is morally and intillectually wrong.


You&#39;re at most 25% rational, my delusional hippie friend...

Sorry you can&#39;t see the forest through the trees.


How the fuck is bible burning terrorism?

Intellectual terrorism. And yes, while the argument can be made that christianity is intellectual terrorism (and I would agree), advocating the destruction of a book, fictitious or not, is wholey dispicable and tantamount to becoming a Nazi, which I can neither abide or tolerate.


The Bible is more than worthy of being burnt, given the suffering it has caused. If that offends you and your christian friends/churchies then all the better, its about time the religious got offended, after all the rest of humanity had to put up with their BS for centuries.

I&#39;m not christian, nor are most of my friends. But we don&#39;t burn books because we disagree with them, either. Facsists do that...
More blood has been shed in the name of some god or another throughout the centuries than for any other reason. The christians have been particularly adept at "converting" the indigenous peoples of far-flung locales through use of force or coerssion, sometimes going so far as to destroy their religious symbols and building a church over the ashes. These strong arm tactics are usually coupled with some terribly narrow mindset of being justified by God, like Manifest Destiny.
Now, by burning bibles for...whatever reason, aren&#39;t you just doing more of the same? You just have different rhetoric.
"We&#39;re liberating mankind." Weren&#39;t the christians of that opinion, too?
"We are burning the bible in effigy of..." blah, blah blah... why do you think these ancient gods were destroyed by the christians? They did to the Greko-Roman pantheon what you suggest to do to christianity.

No Gods and No Masters, yes. But no self-sabotage, either.


To show any respect for that disgusting hate book or any building used for &#39;worship&#39; like churches or temples etc... does no one any good.

Neither does your hatred, but you don&#39;t seem to see it that way.


There is no reason to suggest burning "some" bibles will result censorship.

A direct quote from Germany, 1935.

Just one question: How do you think Nazi bookburning got started?


Burning bibles is a freedom.

You are free to do that all you like, but how can you support things like a truly free society by wearing your intolerance on your sleaves? Spouting off this or the other is a freedom is very pricey rhetoric when your freedom is advocating this sort of atrocity.

Just as an overview here, I AM NOT ADVOCATING CHRISTIANITY&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I am and always will advocate the right to choose for one&#39;s self whether or not to believe it. And whether you like it or not when you advocate the destruction of these christian things you endorse the eradication of western civilization&#39;s history, even on a small scale. How many among you would paint over the Sistine Chapel?
Even if it is a vulgar and opressive past, it&#39;s better to keep it intact and learn from it than repeat the same mistake over and over throughout the countless centuries and millenia.

[ReD_ReBeL]

oh...how mature &#39;Lets all go burn some bibles kids".
You all talk about freedom yet no1&#39;s opinion is of any value if it doesnt fit into the communist/atheist view point.


I&#39;m sorry, but if some worthless piece of shit Christian wants to go to his/her church and sit down with other moronic Christians and listen to some cleric speak of the &#39;evils&#39; of gay people or some other reactionary and bigoted BS, or if they picket the funerals of gay people and shout abuse

Why does people on here bring information which is mostly dated back like a hundred years?
Sure a minority of Christians preach against gays but now in the 21st century, in the 1st world anyway Christians(majority of them) preach tolerance and acceptance.

[uber-liberal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2006 04:19 pm
oh...how mature &#39;Lets all go burn some bibles kids".
You all talk about freedom yet no1&#39;s opinion is of any value if it doesnt fit into the communist/atheist view point.


I&#39;m sorry, but if some worthless piece of shit Christian wants to go to his/her church and sit down with other moronic Christians and listen to some cleric speak of the &#39;evils&#39; of gay people or some other reactionary and bigoted BS, or if they picket the funerals of gay people and shout abuse

Why does people on here bring information which is mostly dated back like a hundred years?
Sure a minority of Christians preach against gays but now in the 21st century, in the 1st world anyway Christians(majority of them) preach tolerance and acceptance.
Good point. Now, why can&#39;t the people here do the same? You (general you) can&#39;t just talk the talk; you got to walk the walk.

[Cryotank Screams]

oh...how mature &#39;Lets all go burn some bibles kids".

Maturity is not the issue, it&#39;s about liberating yourself, and or the group you are doing it with from a tyrant of thought that doesn&#39;t even exist; I guess the main symbolic meaning of such an act escapes you.


atheist view point.

Atheism is reality, religion is anti-reality, and has enslaved the masses for thousands of years all for some spiritual pipe-dream; sorry for wanting to get rid of a practice that leaves humanity in a stupid slumber and has caused more bloodshed than anything else.


Sure a minority of Christians preach against gays but now in the 21st century, in the 1st world anyway Christians(majority of them) preach tolerance and acceptance.

That is because they ignore major parts of the bible, in favor of being PC to lure people in the pews; christianity was and shall forever be a social cancer.

Have you even read the bible?


If you burn ANY book you start down that path. The only way you can be free from religion is to understand it, not destroy it.

No, quite being a fucking idiot, burning what is essentially just wood, leather, and ink, is not going down the road of fascism. The bible itself is the road to fascism.


You start with the bible, where to next?

The koran, the vedas, the book of mormon, the avesta, the book of shadows, the torah, etc,...


I&#39;m an atheist buddhist myself

That&#39;s an oxymoron, you obviously either don&#39;t know anything about buddhism, or you don’t know anything about Atheism.


intillectually wrong

One it is spelled intellectually*, two religion is intellectual wrong, and a noose upon every true intellectual.


Intellectual terrorism.

Religion is "intellectual terrorism," it&#39;s a cancer of the mind, and holds back the gears of science and evolution.


advocating the destruction of a book, fictitious or not, is wholey dispicable and tantamount to becoming a Nazi, which I can neither abide or tolerate

It&#39;s a piece of bound wood, that has been splattered with ink and nothing more, quite fetishizing it.

Furthermore you know nothing of nazism, nor why the nazis burned bibles and certain books in the first place, so kindly, keep your mouth shut.


But we don&#39;t burn books because we disagree with them, either. Facsists do that...

Your not understand the main symbolic point of burning holy books; also fascists embraced the bible and made christianity the state religion, how about you read some information on mussolini&#39;s italy, and franco&#39;s spain and come back to us ok?


A direct quote from Germany, 1935.

No, it&#39;s not.


Just one question: How do you think Nazi bookburning got started?

Yes, I do, but you obviously don&#39;t.


you endorse the eradication of western civilization&#39;s history, even on a small scale.

Yea, pretty much, do you know nothing of Leftist philosophy/politics?

Why do you have a Mao avatar when he shut down all religious institutions and censored religious books?

[ReD_ReBeL]

Maturity is not the issue, it&#39;s about liberating yourself, and or the group you are doing it with from a tyrant of thought that doesn&#39;t even exist;

The Church does not rule countries anymore , so really it isn&#39;t a Tryant.
People choose if thy wish to believe in god or not. It isn&#39;t the law.

[Cryotank Screams]

so really it isn&#39;t a Tryant.

Religion is a tyrant of thought, and the imaginary friends, or deities are tyrants of the people.


People choose if thy wish to believe in god or not.

No, they don&#39;t, believe aren’t born wanting, needing, or desiring, a phantom to worship, it&#39;s memetic engineering plan and simple.

[uber-liberal]

No, quite being a fucking idiot, burning what is essentially just wood, leather, and ink, is not going down the road of fascism. The bible itself is the road to fascism.

IF YOU ARE QUITE DONE WITH THE TRITE INSULTS...

Burning any book is tantamount to fascism, even if the book itself is a source of fascism. You must be free in your mind and heart. Symbolism is just so much cheap theater... and used by (gasp) religions.

How&#39;s that foot taste?



The koran, the vedas, the book of mormon, the avesta, the book of shadows, the torah, etc,...

Zieg Heil, dude...




I&#39;m an atheist buddhist myself


That&#39;s an oxymoron, you obviously either don&#39;t know anything about buddhism, or you don’t know anything about Atheism.

Buddhism isn&#39;t a religion, it&#39;s a philosophy. You can be buddhist and have no gods to pray to, you know. An oxymoron is being against organized religion and all their trappings yet still supporting sybolism as a means to reach the masses.


religion is intellectual wrong, and a noose upon every true intellectual.

Do you mean itellectually wrong and a noose around every itellectual&#39;s neck? Absolutely, but surpressing freedom of religion is, again, fascism. I think if you use god, you use a crutch for your life. I won&#39;t get in anyone&#39;s way to do it, though. That&#39;s their decision to make.


Religion is "intellectual terrorism," it&#39;s a cancer of the mind, and holds back the gears of science and evolution.

See above. And science? Read up on Da Vinci. He was arguably the most intelligent man to ever walk the earth, yet he lived in the most religious of times. Hmm...


It&#39;s a piece of bound wood, that has been splattered with ink and nothing more, quite fetishizing it.

Furthermore you know nothing of nazism, nor why the nazis burned bibles and certain books in the first place, so kindly, keep your mouth shut.

QUIT. Say it with me; QUIT, not QUITE. There is a difference.

I think you&#39;re the one with the fetish if you are so fixated on burning religious literature. And, if you&#39;re the one denouncing fascism yet still advocating burning ANY book, you need to go back and look up Nazi-ism yourself, amigo...

And furthermore I have every right to dispell my opinions and intrepretations of historical fact. Kindly remember that.


Your not understand the main symbolic point of burning holy books; also fascists embraced the bible and made christianity the state religion, how about you read some information on mussolini&#39;s italy, and franco&#39;s spain and come back to us ok?

Franco, Mussolini and Hitler outlawed Judaism (and Catholicism in Germany), the sale and reproduction of their literature and actively hunted them down for exermination. Wicca had been illegal due to the Holy Roman Church for centuries. Muslims and Jews were burned at the stake, much like witches later in England and New England, during the Spanish Inquisition.
Burn anything you want, but once you start burning books because of their content you loose whatever intellectual mustre you may have had. No one with a mind worth a damn could support such recklessness. At that point, your hypocracy cup shall runeth over...




A direct quote from Germany, 1935.


No, it&#39;s not.

HUMOR. Look it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor



Just one question: How do you think Nazi bookburning got started?
Yes, I do, but you obviously don&#39;t.

Arrogance never solved anything, cheif.


Yea, pretty much, do you know nothing of Leftist philosophy/politics?

Why do you have a Mao avatar when he shut down all religious institutions and censored religious books?

I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS PERSON&#33;&#33;&#33; DO YOU GET IT YET??? LISTEN, DAMNIT&#33;&#33;&#33;

I do not agree with religions, nor am I a practicing member of a religion. I do, however, think that everyone has the right to decide for themselves what is or is not the right path for them. Making that decision for them is part of the reason the Eastern Block fell. If you can&#39;t allow others to have their own ideas and opinions you are a tyrant, no better that religion itself, period.




Maturity is not the issue, it&#39;s about liberating yourself, and or the group you are doing it with from a tyrant of thought that doesn&#39;t even exist;


The Church does not rule countries anymore , so really it isn&#39;t a Tryant.
People choose if thy wish to believe in god or not. It isn&#39;t the law.

Other than the Vatican, christianity has very little to no OFFICIAL political power, but it does wield a very large power base stateside. Damn evangelicals...

And Islam does have a few national theocratic systems going on out there. Look at Iran, Saudi Arabia (not a theocracy, but all laws must be "kosher" with the koran), and Pakistan (same as the Saudis with their laws, but to a lesser extent). Th eargument could easily be made that those countries are a religious tyranny.

*MODIFIED for fluency and grammar.*

[uber-liberal]

Repeat. See below.

[uber-liberal]

Oh yeah, and Scarlet Hammer, let me know when you&#39;re done with college and actually start living. We&#39;ll see how your ideals hold up in the real world.

Try a touch of pragmatism. It will do you wonders.

[ReD_ReBeL]

No, they don&#39;t, believe aren’t born wanting, needing, or desiring, a phantom to worship, it&#39;s memetic engineering plan and simple.

well you arn&#39;t religious are you? and i know i am not religious.
And i&#39;m pretty sure that the majority of the 1st world at least, is not religious now adays.

[Zero]

Originally posted by "uber&#045;liberal"+--> ("uber&#045;liberal") Burning any book is tantamount to fascism, even if the book itself is a source of fascism. You must be free in your mind and heart. Symbolism is just so much cheap theater... and used by (gasp) religions.[/b]Tactics do not constitute an ideology, forward-thinking tactics would say that to destroy the foundation of your enemy now would be better in the long run than facing a full-force attack at a later time. Fundamental theology dictates strong alliegence to a reactionary force; giving them a tenant of belief is giving them the chance at not only expressing the belief the way it is supposed to be expressed (killing Jews, killing Homosexuals, killing rebellious children, killing non-believers... etc) but to allow them to openly recruit for a regressionary movement.

Book burning has taken place throughout history as a way to regress in society. I don&#39;t advocate destroying knowlege, but practicing a reactionary and dangerous belief in a fundamentally unscientific, and closeminded dogma is not only a threat to society as a whole, but to the advancement of technology. I would personally burn any book that taught me how to live, what to learn, what to believe, and what to think; as this is not destroying knowlege, this is destroying fundamentally disproven dogma.


Originally posted by "uber&#045;liberal"+--> ("uber&#045;liberal") Zieg Heil, dude...[/b]He might as well have been saying Mien Kampf, or other works of nonsense. These books have contributed to the second largest slaughter in the history of the world, only rivaled by the effects of unbridled Capitalism. Forgetting these blights on Humanity only give us a launching pad for the stars, and believe me, the only forseeable way for Humanity to become an interstellar species is for backwater concepts like nation states and religion to become a thing of the past.

Divide and conquor... this has been the most successful tactic in destroying any movement in history. Doing this to ourselves is a bit counter-productive isn&#39;t it?

("uber&#045;liberal")An oxymoron is being against organized religion and all their trappings yet still supporting sybolism as a means to reach the masses.[/b][/quote]How exactly do you convey information without symbolism? The brain functions as a relation device for the lions share of information. Love cannot be described in a uniform context because emotions are a construct of experiances over a lifetime of interaction, the same is true with information. We gleam information from experiances and highlight that information that &#39;sticks out&#39; the most. The information that stays in your long-term memory is information that is somehow relative to your everyday life, or emotions, or feelings... etc.

Therefore the only way for an organization to reach the lions share of the masses, and have their message &#39;stick&#39; in the minds of the people is to use symbolism to convey information. Religion exploits this to indoctrinate people into a cult-like mindset, science uses this to convey information relative to everyday life of an individual who may or may not be intrested in this knowlege, corporations use this as a way to indoctrinate people into a psyudo-cult of consumerism, political ideologies use this as a method of opting people into a specific worldview. Using the most efficient method of communicating information to people is not "an oxymoron" it is simply embracing advancement of psychological science without exploiting people.

("uber&#045;liberal") Do you mean itellectually wrong and a noose around every itellectual&#39;s neck? Absolutely, but surpressing freedom of religion is, again, fascism. [...] I won&#39;t get in anyone&#39;s way to do it, though. That&#39;s their decision to make.[/b][/quote]
Supressing your freedom to choose wether or not to follow a religion is one thing; supressing public support, and indoctrination of wether or not to follow a religion is another. Churches, castles, bibles... each of these in turn show public support of backwater belief. As well as given a foundation for regressive movements throughout the world, see Jerusalem.

The more that impressionable children are sent to Jesus Camp, and turned into a "Warrior for Jesus" the more the world will turn in on each other. Just recently in this room I am sitting in, typing this to you, I saw a fully grown man push a teenager down a flight of stairs because he "Insulted my religion." People get offended quickly and hotly when they have no base of arguement in favor of their position. Doubly so if their position conflicts with the Laws of Physics (who cares about them?), Geology (a dead science anyway, right? ... right?), History (Whats done is done, lets forget it&#33;), Biology (two hundred years of research doesn&#39;t tarnish my belief&#33;), and nearly every other scientific (and even non-scientific) field of research it comes in contact with. With such monumental scientificly proven thought against it, and only unscientific faith behind it, there is absolutely NO room for this to be taught to anyone as "The truth".

("uber&#045;liberal") I think you&#39;re the one with the fetish if you are so fixated on burning religious literature. And, if you&#39;re the one denouncing fascism yet still advocating burning ANY book, you need to go back and look up Nazi-ism yourself, amigo...[/b][/quote]NAZI-ism is a misnomer, Hitlerism is probably a better word for it, but symantics doesn&#39;t really matter. Hitlerism is simply a warship-cult around a leadership figure, with undying devotion to him/her. This has nothing to do with burning books.

("uber&#045;liberal") Burn anything you want, but once you start burning books because of their content you loose whatever intellectual mustre you may have had. No one with a mind worth a damn could support such recklessness. At that point, your hypocracy cup shall runeth over...[/b][/quote]Eh, if it was state sponsered I might agree with you. But if the public willingly destroyed these things that have done so much harm to the world... I dare say I wouldn&#39;t shed a tear.

("uber&#045;liberal")If you can&#39;t allow others to have their own ideas and opinions you are a tyrant, no better that religion itself, period.[/b][/quote]Who says you can&#39;t have your own ideas and opinions? I have an opinion on religious institutions, and texts; this is that these need to be destroyed to rid society of the evil they have done. If you have an idea that you want to warship a god in the comfort of your own house, go ahead. But don&#39;t think for a second that you can build your church on land perfectly useable for housing.


"uber&#045;liberal"@
Other than the Vatican, christianity has very little to no OFFICIAL political power, but it does wield a very large power base stateside. Damn evangelicals...Thats equivalent to saying that the United States has very little to no OFFICIAL power other than the White House. You can&#39;t drive a block without seeing some sort of religious indoctrination institution in most major cities around the world. All religions have dominated state and local power for the majority of the time we have been able to convey information through language to each other.


"uber&#045;liberal"
Th eargument could easily be made that those countries are a religious tyranny.easily be made? How about fucking duh? What about George W. Bush saying he was on a mission from God? What about Tony Blair saying that God is on our side (or some other such nonsense)?

The world is being ran by hundreds of people who have imaginary friends speaking to them, most of the more dogmatic ones have access to enough weapons to destroy this planet over 100 times over, and your telling me that I should be scared of anyone who wants to get rid of this? Yeah right. :lol:

[uber-liberal]

...giving them a tenant of belief is giving them the chance at not only expressing the belief the way it is supposed to be expressed (killing Jews, killing Homosexuals, killing rebellious children, killing non-believers... etc) but to allow them to openly recruit for a regressionary movement.

Your view of religion is skewed at best. Most religions don&#39;t advocate killing anyone (Thou Shalt not Kill), and teach to be tolerant of people, yet not of "sin". Unfortunately a great many of their followers tend to follow along in the hatred of peoples prevalent throughout society, down through the ages. Blaming religion for the hatred isn&#39;t going to solve anything. It&#39;s our job as leftists to show people why they don&#39;t need religion through compassion, logic and reason, not choosing for them.


I would personally burn any book that taught me how to live, what to learn, what to believe, and what to think; as this is not destroying knowlege, this is destroying fundamentally disproven dogma.

So you&#39;d burn the Communist Manifesto, the U.S. Constitution and the Magna Carta (due to its oh-so-precious "symbolism") because they tell you what you can and cannot do within a free society, right? How about George Orwell&#39;s 1984? It suggests government oversight in every aspect of life, nevermind it&#39;s oppositional stance on it. Better get rid of the bookstore&#39;s self-help section (which I admit has a certain bent appeal), and that damn pesky Noam Chomsky has to go, with all of his political insight, trying to teach us... HOW DARE HE&#33;
When you start telling people what they can and cannot believe you advocate the onset of fascism, pure and simple. All you need at that point is an autocrat, which is usually the person pushing these ill-advised policies down everyone&#39;s throats.


Forgetting these blights on Humanity only give us a launching pad for the stars, and believe me, the only forseeable way for Humanity to become an interstellar species is for backwater concepts like nation states and religion to become a thing of the past.

Those who forget/ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.


Divide and conquor... this has been the most successful tactic in destroying any movement in history. Doing this to ourselves is a bit counter-productive isn&#39;t it?

It is. So, instead of diving humanity along the linbes of the backwards faithful and the Proletariat, try a little understanding and compassion.


How exactly do you convey information without symbolism?

Touche. Allow me to rephrase.

An oxymoron is being against organized religion and all their trappings yet still supporting dramatic sybolism as a means to reach the masses.

Dramatics; tools of the religiously zealous and marketing executives. I don&#39;t think you want to be thrown in with that lot. THAT is counterproductive.


Supressing your freedom to choose wether or not to follow a religion is one thing; supressing public support, and indoctrination of wether or not to follow a religion is another.

Supressing public displays of faith goes against our Constitution and the Bill of Rights, namely the First Ammendment. Those are rights many of my countrymen have fought and died for, and would do the same in a New York minute.
Besides, freedom of religion also meens freedom FROM religion.


NAZI-ism is a misnomer, Hitlerism is probably a better word for it, but symantics doesn&#39;t really matter. Hitlerism is simply a warship-cult around a leadership figure, with undying devotion to him/her. This has nothing to do with burning books.

No, nazi-ism is exactly what I ment, not Hitlerism. The party eventually outgrew the man, as do all ideas with that kind of impact.
Nazi-ism censored the masses and only allowed certain views to be publicly expressed, much like what is being advocated here by Scarlet Hammer, LSD and yourself. NOT THAT I&#39;M CALLING YOU FASCISTS, just a tad overzealous in your intentions.


People get offended quickly and hotly when they have no base of arguement in favor of their position.

All the more reason not to poke the bear, so to speak.


Eh, if it was state sponsered I might agree with you. But if the public willingly destroyed these things that have done so much harm to the world... I dare say I wouldn&#39;t shed a tear.

Even as a private group of the citizenry, when you endorse burning books you isolate yourself from society instead of endearing yourself into their hearts and minds. That is, after all, how you win people over to your political point of view.

If the public shed themselves of the church and all it&#39;s ideology, good. People could use the chance to get out from under that yolk. But that&#39;s just it; THEY MUST CHOOSE TO DO SO.


Who says you can&#39;t have your own ideas and opinions? I have an opinion on religious institutions, and texts; this is that these need to be destroyed to rid society of the evil they have done. If you have an idea that you want to warship a god in the comfort of your own house, go ahead. But don&#39;t think for a second that you can build your church on land perfectly useable for housing.

Er, most churches are also a residence for the clergyman, so your argument is lacking mustre. But, as with evangelical churches, no one lives there but "God", so I think your argument is the exception, not the rule.

And let&#39;s take your argument further; what about courthouses, or libraries or schools? No one lives there, are they a waste of prime real estate?
What about sports arenas? Are they a societal necessity or are they a waste? Are we going to built apartments where the city parks are? Do the kids really need a playground when they can play just as effectively inside?


Thats equivalent to saying that the United States has very little to no OFFICIAL power other than the White House. You can&#39;t drive a block without seeing some sort of religious indoctrination institution in most major cities around the world. All religions have dominated state and local power for the majority of the time we have been able to convey information through language to each other.

"They&#39;re coming to take me away, hoho, they&#39;re to take me away HAHAHEHEHOHO..."



("uber-liberal")
The eargument could easily be made that those countries are a religious tyranny.
easily be made? How about fucking duh? What about George W. Bush saying he was on a mission from God? What about Tony Blair saying that God is on our side (or some other such nonsense)?

The world is being ran by hundreds of people who have imaginary friends speaking to them, most of the more dogmatic ones have access to enough weapons to destroy this planet over 100 times over, and your telling me that I should be scared of anyone who wants to get rid of this? Yeah right.

No, I&#39;m saying you should be careful of your tactics because you&#39;ll wind up just like them, only in the opposite extreme.
And Bush isn&#39;t a religious tyrant, per se. An absolute idiot with the "football*", yes. A militant puppet of corporate America, absolutely. A shining example why C students shouldn&#39;t be elected to the presidency, damn skippy. If it can be proven he is using religious dgma to make decisions instead of facts and logic, he can be impeached and probably should be.

*-football refers to the briefcase with the nuclear launch codes, for those who didn&#39;t know. It was given that name by Gerald Ford and his Secret Service officers.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by uber&#045;liberal+November 20, 2006 09:49 am--> (uber-liberal @ November 20, 2006 09:49 am) Oh yeah, and Scarlet Hammer, let me know when you&#39;re done with college and actually start living. We&#39;ll see how your ideals hold up in the real world.

[/b]
I am not in college, I am a piercer, I am not well of, I have probably lived a harder life than you, don&#39;t try to put me in a box fuckwad.


Zieg Heil, dude...

Es ist sieg heil, nicht "zeig heil," ;).


Burning any book is tantamount to fascism

How? Fully explain this to me.


See above. And science? Read up on Da Vinci. He was arguably the most intelligent man to ever walk the earth, yet he lived in the most religious of times. Hmm...

Who was almost jailed or executed for being homosexual, and whose scientific research and discovery was constantly being hindered by the church, what is your point?


Trouble in the Garden of Eden
In 1615 the Inquisition summoned Galileo to Rome. They threatened to execute him unless he retracted his belief that the Earth revolves around the sun and not vice versa.

Yea, really worth defending, they are totally innocent and harmless, :rolleyes:.


Symbolism is just so much cheap theater... and used by (gasp) religions

Symbolism and aesthetics is used by everyone, in a variety of situations without even noticing it, it&#39;s inescapable, it&#39;s not cheap, it&#39;s actually quite meaningful, and a very helpful tool.


How&#39;s that foot taste?

I wouldn&#39;t know, how does it taste?


I think you&#39;re the one with the fetish if you are so fixated on burning religious literature.

How am I fixated? I&#39;m not, I am merely talking about it, because it was brought up, have I burned bibles and holy books? Yes, do I do it often? No, do I ever mention it, without it being brought up? No, so it appears I have no fixation, sorry.


Buddhism isn&#39;t a religion

Yes, it it;

"Most traditional religions have little or nothing to do with reality, are dependent on obfuscation, interpretation, guilt, and unreasoning faith."-Anton LaVey.


You can be buddhist and have no gods to pray to, you know.

Atheism is much more than just the disbelief of gods, it also means you do not believe in the spiritual, spiritual pipe-dreams (afterlives), and any other such thing of spiritual relation.


Wicca had been illegal due to the Holy Roman Church for centuries.

Wicca did not come about till 1954, and was codified by Gerald Gardner who wasn&#39;t born until 1884, therefore it hasn&#39;t existed for centuries, that is a wiccan myth, espoused by their movement.


you need to go back and look up Nazi-ism yourself, amigo...

My family lived through and during nazi-era germany, I have talked to holocaust survivors, and ordinary citizens about what happened, I have read and studied what happened, therefore my conclusions are based on first hand accounts, and studies, therefore I don’t feel I have to.


HUMOR. Look it up.

I knew what you were talking about; I just found it idiotic.


Arrogance never solved anything

Stating a fact is not arrogance.


I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS PERSON&#33;&#33;&#33; DO YOU GET IT YET??? LISTEN, DAMNIT&#33;&#33;&#33;

Did I ever say you were? No, I don’t believe I did, sorry.


Burn anything you want, but once you start burning books because of their content you loose whatever intellectual mustre you may have had.

So if I burned mein kampf, and the inequality of the races, that would mean I am reckless? Would you defend both books rights to exist regardless of the death, destruction, and oppression they cause? Why defend such things? Why not get rid of them completely?

That is like saying you know what the cancer is, and how to get rid of it, but you don’t because recognizing it’s right to exist, lol.


If you can&#39;t allow others to have their own ideas and opinions you are a tyrant, no better that religion itself, period.

“The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.”-Mikhail Bakunin.

I am fighting to emancipate, and liberate, I am by no means a tyrant.

[uber-liberal]

Scarlet Hammer, the only way you will reachanybody with your opinions is through understanding their positions. If you come at people screaming "you&#39;re wrong, idiot", you won&#39;t get a single person to hear you. So, if you are telling people what you&#39;re against by acts of outrageous defiance, like burning bibles, the only thing most people will see is a lot of goose-stepping and limitations on their lives.
My mother gave me some advice when I was 14. She said to tell people what you are for, not what you&#39;re against. A possitive message goes much further than hatred.
And you may have a legitimate reason to hate religion. A great many people share your feelings towards it. But if you are working at bolstering support for your cause, leading off with hate will only drive people away.

"Most traditional religions have little or nothing to do with reality, are dependent on obfuscation, interpretation, guilt, and unreasoning faith."-Anton LaVey.

Reflect on these words. They really only appeal to people leaning toward those beliefs anyway. They don&#39;t offer the religious a compelling argument that they will be receptive to, just an accusational finger pointed in their direction.

hate all you want, but that is why you&#39;re burning bibles, and that&#39;s why burning them is a step toward fascism.

Reply if you want, I don&#39;t care to read it. Either you agree or you don&#39;t but I&#39;m not wasting my time on you any more. Good luck.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2006 10:19 am
oh...how mature &#39;Lets all go burn some bibles kids".
You all talk about freedom yet no1&#39;s opinion is of any value if it doesnt fit into the communist/atheist view point.


I&#39;m sorry, but if some worthless piece of shit Christian wants to go to his/her church and sit down with other moronic Christians and listen to some cleric speak of the &#39;evils&#39; of gay people or some other reactionary and bigoted BS, or if they picket the funerals of gay people and shout abuse

Why does people on here bring information which is mostly dated back like a hundred years?
Sure a minority of Christians preach against gays but now in the 21st century, in the 1st world anyway Christians(majority of them) preach tolerance and acceptance.
Agreed and you&#39;re basically asking to get killed as well depending on where you&#39;re planning this shitty Bible burning party seeing as there are some pretty fucked up Christians that would kill for their faith.

[Cryotank Screams]

Scarlet Hammer, the only way you will reachanybody with your opinions is through understanding their positions. If you come at people screaming "you&#39;re wrong, idiot", you won&#39;t get a single person to hear you.

That is not what I am doing, when I debate someone I tell them straight forward the facts, and it is my personal belief the only way to sway people to my opinion, is through challenging theirs, putting it into question, planting the seed of doubt, making sure that after the debate they take a serious and hard look at what they believe.

I do this by facts, data, illustrations, and sometimes (as in bible burnings), with enema images.


Reflect on these words. They really only appeal to people leaning toward those beliefs anyway. They don&#39;t offer the religious a compelling argument that they will be receptive to, just an accusational finger pointed in their direction.

Don&#39;t tell me to reflect on LaVey&#39;s words, I have read and studied the mans work for years, and personally how else are we going to inspire change? The only way to show people is to point that accusational finger and say "hey, this is what you’re doing, this is what it truly is, and this is why it&#39;s wrong."


hate all you want, but that is why you&#39;re burning bibles, and that&#39;s why burning them is a step toward fascism.

I don&#39;t hate, it&#39;s more of a feverish contempt followed by pity and a wanting of change, and I have burned bibles because it is a simple act of defiance saying I am against all gods, I am man, I am the only god*.

*Poetically, and philosophically speaking.


Reply if you want, I don&#39;t care to read it. Either you agree or you don&#39;t but I&#39;m not wasting my time on you any more. Good luck.

I am sorry you couldn&#39;t get past this particular enema image, ;) .

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by uber&#045;[email protected] 19, 2006 12:45 pm
Yes, it is. I don&#39;t buy into religious dogma either, but if you think burning a bible, yours or otherwise, will make the world a better place, you&#39;re mistaken.
Why? If I burn my bible, that bible is my "property"&#33; If I had bought that bible, then odds are that I actually worked for that money.

That&#39;s like saying that if I waste money on beer or fizzy drinks I&#39;m wasting resources because I could just drink water. Or some crap like that.


If you burn ANY book you start down that path. The only way you can be free from religion is to understand it, not destroy it.

You don&#39;t even know what fascism is...


You start with the bible, where to next?

Blah blah blah. Pointless slippery slopes.


but limiting people&#39;s access to information, even in effigy, is morally and intillectually wrong.

You&#39;re completely delusional if you think that burning a stupid fiction book written thousands of years ago is such a terrible, "fascistic" thing.

I don&#39;t want to "burn books", but you&#39;re crazy if you think that would be the sign of the second coming of fascism


Sorry you can&#39;t see the forest through the trees.

Maybe you should take them down and smoke them, hippie...no, wait, you probably want to "save the earth" or something like that :lol:

(Sorry for that, I couldn&#39;t resist)


Intellectual terrorism. And yes, while the argument can be made that christianity is intellectual terrorism (and I would agree), advocating the destruction of a book, fictitious or not, is wholey dispicable and tantamount to becoming a Nazi, which I can neither abide or tolerate.

No it&#39;s not. Nazism is essentially an ideology. Burning a book is an activity that anyone can do, and their ideas have nothing to do with it. You haven&#39;t given enough reasons to make me consider burning a book as something inherently "fascistic".

For example, why does burning a "fascist" book make someone a "fascist"? Until you give a solid explanation for this, I&#39;ll assume you&#39;re stupid.

Meanwhile, I&#39;ll use your logic to assume that "self defense" is wrong because you become like the person you&#39;re defending yourself from, that taking away from the bourgeoisie what they took away from workers is exploiting them, and that if a slave rebels he is doing exactly what his enslaver did to him.

Hmm...this surely explains why you were restricted...

[luxemburg89]

If we burn bibles we cannot pick holes in it. The proof of their stupidity would be gone and it&#39;d be pointless. Best thing to do is to read the bible, make notes on which bits are wrong and tell organised religion why they&#39;re talking bollocks. That&#39;s a much more credible way of doing it.