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emma_goldman
30th August 2006, 04:28
(1)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler. com/Dissent/ Einstein_ NYTimes_Israel. html

Albert Einstein letter
New York Times, December 4, 1948

TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:
New Palestine Party Visit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political
Movement Discussed

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the
emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party"
(Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization,
methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist
parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the
former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist
organization in
Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United
States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American
Support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement
political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States.
Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome
his visit.

It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world,
If correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and
perspectives,
could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions,
public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine
of
the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements
in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and
objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual
character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism,
whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist
state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real
character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to
do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir
Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish
lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands
who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK
TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a
military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240
men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as
captives through the
streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the
deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah
of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their
act,
were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the
foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses
and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the
Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of
ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like
other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have
themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their
stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.

During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and
Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish
community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults
were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster
methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the
terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive
achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no
settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their
much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to
bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and
His party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the
Imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp
of a
Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British
alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the
goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the
truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It
is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has
refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its
own
constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few
salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all
concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ, HANNAH ARENDT, ABRAHAM BRICK, RABBI JESSURUN
CARDOZO, ALBERT EINSTEIN, HERMAN EISEN, M.D., HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN,
M.D., H.H. HARRIS, ZELIG S. HARRIS, SIDNEY HOOK, FRED KARUSH, BRURIA
KAUFMAN, IRMA L. LINDHEIM, NACHMAN MAISEL, SEYMOUR MELMAN, MYER D.
MENDELSON, M.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKY, SAMUEL PITLICK, FRITZ ROHRLICH,
LOUIS P. ROCKER, RUTH SAGIS, ITZHAK SANKOWSKY, I.J. SHOENBERG, SAMUEL
SHUMAN, M. SINGER, IRMA WOLFE, STEFAN WOLFE.

New York, Dec. 2, 1948

Source notes: Laura Nader gave a copy of the microfilmed NYT to Anne
Lipow in April. (Nader has been using it in her class at UC). The copy
was illegible in parts and the first column was cut off; Laura's
original was the same. Anne and UC Anthropology Librarian Suzanne
Calpestri then tried to retrieve an electronic version of the letter. It
appears
nowhere in its entirety on the Internet, and is not in any NYT
electronic
archive accessible to UC Librarians (i.e., it doesn't exist). Suzanne
made
another copy from a different microfilm; it solved the mystery of the
missing first column but this copy was also "dirty" in other areas.
Neither copy was scannable using OCR,so I typed it in by hand exactly
The way it appeared in the original, and have proofed it carefully.
However, the spelling of some of the signatories was unclear in the
microfilmed originals, so there may be a few errors in this rendition.
It would be nice if someone were to annotate the list of signatories, so
that those less-familiar names could be placed in context. At any rate,
this
Clearly belongs IN FULL TEXT on the web for distribution to as many
people as possible. Please circulate this among anyone you think may be
interested; I think it especially belongs in the hands of those friends
and family members who are still reluctant to criticize the Israeli
government.

source info: Jenny Lipow, Berkeley, CA <[email protected] .net> 22 May
2002

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
***
(2)
Mahatma Gandhi on Palestine, written in 1938

THE JEWS IN PALESTINE 1938
By Mahatma Gandhi
Published in the Harijan
26-11-1938.

Several letters have been received by me, asking me to declare my views
About the Arab-Jew question in Palestine and the persecution of the Jews
in
Germany. It is not without hesitation that I venture to offer my views
on
this very difficult question.

My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in
South
Africa. Some of them became lifelong companions. Through these friends I
came to learn much of their age long persecution. They have been the
untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by
Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close.

Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification
of
the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships,
therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for
the Jews.

But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice.

The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to
me.
The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which
the
Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like
other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are
born and where they earn their livelihood?

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to
the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose
the Jews on the Arabs.

What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral
code of
conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely
it
would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that
Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national
home. The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the
Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French
in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French.

If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of
being
forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled?
Or
do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for
the
national home affords a colorable justification for the German expulsion
of
the Jews.

But the German persecution of the Jews seems to have no parallel in
history. The tyrants of old never went so mad as Hitler seems to have
gone. And he is doing it with religious zeal. For, he is propounding a
new religion of exclusive and militant nationalism in the name of which
any inhumanity becomes an act of humanity to be rewarded here and
hereafter.

The crime of an obviously mad but intrepid youth is being visited upon
his
whole race with unbelievable ferocity. If there ever could be a
justifiable
war in the name of and for humanity, a war against Germany to prevent
the wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completely justified.
But I do not believe in any war. A discussion of the pros and cons of
such a war is, therefore, outside my horizon or province.

But if there can be no war against Germany, even for such a crime as is
Being committed against the Jews, surely there can be no alliance with
Germany. How can there be alliance between a nation, which claims to
stand for justice and democracy and one, which is the declared enemy of
both? Or is England drifting towards armed dictatorship and all it
means?

Germany is showing to the world how efficiently violence can be worked
when
it is not hampered by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as
humanitarianism. It is also showing how hideous, terrible and terrifying
it
looks in its nakedness. Can the Jews resist this organized and shameless
persecution? Is there a way to preserve their self-respect, and not to
feel helpless, neglected and forlorn? I submit there is. No person who
has faith in a living God need feel helpless or forlorn. Jehovah of the
Jews is a God more personal than the God of the Christians, the
Mussalmans or the Hindus, though as a matter of fact, in essence, He is
common to all and one without a second and beyond description.

But as the Jews attribute personality to God and believe that He rules
every
action of theirs, they ought not to feel helpless.

If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there,
I
would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German might,
and
challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to
be
expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment. And for doing this I
should not wait for the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance, but
would have confidence that in the end the rest were bound to follow my
example.... ...

And now a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they are
going
about it in the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is
not a
geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the
Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it
under
The shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with
the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by
the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart.

The same God rules the Arab heart who rules the Jewish heart... They
will
find the world opinion in their favor in their religious aspiration.
There
are hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs, if they will only
discard the help of the British bayonet. As it is, they are co-sharers
with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them.
I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of
non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable
encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons
of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in
the face of overwhelming odds.

Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by
choosing
the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every
country is their home, including Palestine, not by aggression but by
loving service.

A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution to
Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done
to
enrich the world&#39;s literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine,
agriculture, etc.

Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as the outcast of the
West,
to be despised or patronized. He can command the attention and respect
of the world by being the chosen creation of God, instead of sinking to
the brute who is forsaken by God. They can add to their many
contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action.

Akira
31st August 2006, 11:12
Gandhi was one of the first people against Western civilization and it&#39;s modernism.

Not a very well known fact.

RevolutionaryMarxist
31st August 2006, 15:24
Albert Einstein was also offered the Presidency of Israel, but he "Politely declined" citing that "he was not fit for the job"

emma_goldman
31st August 2006, 22:42
Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 08:13 AM
Gandhi was one of the first people against Western civilization and it&#39;s modernism.

Not a very well known fact.
Oh yeah? I was pretty aware of it. I remember a quote by him goes something like the Western consumer thinks he/she is independent but goes and buys his/her groceries. Well the quotes a bit different but same general premise. :D

Nothing Human Is Alien
1st September 2006, 06:31
Ghandi was a supporter of Adolf Hitler and called on the English not to resist the Nazis, but rather to "Let them take possession of your beautiful island with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds."

He said "Hitler killed five million [sic] Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher&#39;s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs." If they did that, he argued, they would leave a "rich heritage to mankind," and "triumph morally."

He was also racist against black South Africans.

Not very well known facts.

emma_goldman
1st September 2006, 21:30
Originally posted by Compań[email protected] 1 2006, 03:32 AM
Ghandi was a supporter of Adolf Hitler and called on the English not to resist the Nazis, but rather to "Let them take possession of your beautiful island with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds."

He said "Hitler killed five million [sic] Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher&#39;s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs." If they did that, he argued, they would leave a "rich heritage to mankind," and "triumph morally."

He was also racist against black South Africans.

Not very well known facts.
Sarcasm?

TupacAndChe4Eva
1st September 2006, 21:41
Ghandi called Lenin an "ogre", or words to that effect.

He was anti-Islam to the extreme, while promoting Hinduism.

He also called for the Jews to be martyr&#39;s to the Nazi&#39;s, as an example of non-violent protest.

emma_goldman
1st September 2006, 21:45
Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 06:42 PM
Ghandi called Lenin an "ogre", or words to that effect.

He was anti-Islam to the extreme, while promoting Hiduism.

He also called for the Jews to be martyr&#39;s to the Nazi&#39;s, as an example of non-violent protest.
WOW. I did NOT know that. Thanks. Do you have any sources?

:)

pastradamus
1st September 2006, 21:52
Ghandi Was also Fiercely Anti-Tamil. The Tamil people of Sri Lanka are still subjected to Attacks from both India and the sri lankan government because of Principles Put down by Ghandi and followed up by Every Indian Government Since. Thats why the Tamil Tigers Continue to resist. Mohammed Jinnah Has been made out in history to be the Bad Guy when really he was just Reactionary to Ghandi&#39;s anti-Islamic viewpoint. To be honest I believe In the India-Pakistan Area the Political Realm is incompetant and even the Indian Communist party are Uneffective.

TupacAndChe4Eva
1st September 2006, 21:54
Originally posted by emma_goldman+Sep 1 2006, 06:46 PM--> (emma_goldman &#064; Sep 1 2006, 06:46 PM)
[email protected] 1 2006, 06:42 PM
Ghandi called Lenin an "ogre", or words to that effect.

He was anti-Islam to the extreme, while promoting Hiduism.

He also called for the Jews to be martyr&#39;s to the Nazi&#39;s, as an example of non-violent protest.
WOW. I did NOT know that. Thanks. Do you have any sources?

:) [/b]
I done an essay in college and used it for something in it.

If I come across it, I&#39;ll post a source, as I definitely had one.

Vargha Poralli
1st September 2006, 22:52
He was anti-Islam to the extreme, while promoting Hinduism.


i completely completely disagree with this statement. it is true gandhi protested the creation of islamic state of pakistan he is not a hindu fanatic.in fact he saw it as the usual divide and rule policy of the british regime and he stupidly belived both hindus and muslims could coexist in a single nation.even after partition he vehemently opposed indian armed action in kashmir.when riots broke out in calcutta against muslims as a retalition for massacare of hindus in east pakistan(now bangladesh) he spoke out against hindu fanatics and started an hunger-strike against it. for that action he was killed by a hindu extermist called nathuram vinayak godse.

and his views proved to be true today. bcos watever happens today in both india or pakistan the politicians in india blame pakistan for it and the pakistani rulers(politicians and military generals) blame india for it.

since indepence in both countries peoples lives were not improved in both countries.the real difference b4 and after independence is the british exploited the indian(and pakistani) masses b4 and the ruling elites(of both countries) are exploiting after till today.



Ghandi Was also Fiercely Anti-Tamil.


this too is not correct. in fact gandhi emphasied the importance of all languages of india as equals.



The Tamil people of Sri Lanka are still subjected to Attacks from both India and the sri lankan government because of Principles Put down by Ghandi and followed up by Every Indian Government Since.


Now this is really stupid . he never put down any principles for the indian govt . in fact he didnt lived to see free indian govt.india was still a dominion at the time of his death and its constitution was never drwan at that time.the tamils in srilanka are attaked by the srilankan majority bcas of the same reason hitler attcaked jews.racial bias.the indian govt&#39;s biggest crime is its not helping the srilankan tamils because it might ignite the same freedom thought to the tamils living in the indian state of tamil nadu.and it rightly has a reason to fear because the tamils heare are much discriminated against in every other indian state where they are minority.And it dont want the tamil ealam in srilanka to inspire the tamils here to revolt.



Ghandi called Lenin an "ogre", or words to that effect


Yes he did do that bcos he is a burgeoise politicain . wat else to xpect from him ? he didnt even considered the sacrifices of numerous left wing freedom fighters like bahgatsingh,sukhdev etc only bagat singh is a famous name numerous others and not even known out sides their localities becas of him.he recognised none who did not follw him or accept his authority.



He also called for the Jews to be martyr&#39;s to the Nazi&#39;s, as an example of non-violent protest


Yes that is true indeed. i think he said taht bcos he stupidly thouhgt his policy of non violence will work against hitler as he thought it worked aginst brits in india. the only reason brits left india bcas they became ecnomically weakend after WW2 and to check the growth of indian communist movement which tried to expel them in the support of USSR.and the we stupid indians still belive gandhi bought us inpendence becos of the relentless indian ruling classes propaganda.

The Grey Blur
1st September 2006, 23:52
I would love to see any sources which provide emphatic evidence that Ghandi should not be admired by social revolutionaries

R_P_A_S
22nd February 2008, 18:57
I would love to see any sources which provide emphatic evidence that Ghandi should not be admired by social revolutionaries

YES INDEED! we need sources! so i can learn. and shut the hell up all this fucking *****y liberals who love to quote him.

careyprice31
22nd February 2008, 19:09
I agree with Ghandi's views on the creation of Pakistan and Israel.

He really was a great man,no doubt about that.

He was racist against black south africans? wtf? he who began his activism first in South Africa fighting against apartheid?

Nelson Mandela finished what Gandhi started.

Led Zeppelin
22nd February 2008, 19:24
This thread is from two years ago.Stop bringing back old threads.