Overcoming Nihilism?

[deadk]

I was reading another thread and I stumbled across the words "creatively overcoming nihilism." It is apparent to me that Heidegger and several others, through different processes, attempted to approach the question of Being from a "creative" perspective that seems to transcend ideas of faith and nihilism.

Can one elaborate on this further for me? I apologize about the shortness of the post, I wrote a longer one on this topic and posted it in the "learning.." forum but nothing has come of it as of yet.

[rouchambeau]

I don't really know much about Heidigger, but Kant has some brilliant things to say that really undermine nihilism.

[deadk]

would you recomend a particular essay or section of Pure Reason?

[liberationjunky]

Ive never heard this reference before but I think I understand.

Nihilism is the idea that there is nothing one can know for sure. That nothing in life has objective meaning. You can never gain new knowlege if you cannot see thing objectively. If you cannot objectively look at an object you cannot judge it in any way or distinguish it from any other object, even gain knowlege such as its color or size.

To create an idea that is completely new and has never been thought of means that you have broken the cycle of subjective-observing and finally came to a objective conclusion. To create something lets say a green box, you have to paint it green, shape it like a box... To do these things, you have to be able to see things objectively, you have to understand the obejects color and understand how it is truely shaped. To create something you have to know how it was made, and the way its system works, and nihilism says that you can never understand how a system works for sure. So to understand the way a system works would be "Overcoming Nihilism".

[rouchambeau]

I recomend Kant's ethical philosophy. Try The Grounding for the Metaphysics of Morality.

[More Fire for the People]

Because of their hegemony, the ruling class creates its own morals and diffuses them amongst its subjects. Thus, every revolution is nihilist because it smashes the old order. Revolutions destroy existing morals but they do not merely abandon them, they creatively overcome them. Working class revolutionaries must create their own ethics, modes of existence, etc.

[Clarksist]

To create something lets say a green box, you have to paint it green, shape it like a box... To do these things, you have to be able to see things objectively, you have to understand the obejects color and understand how it is truely shaped.

You don't have to see things "objectively". You are merely creating something that is subjectively agreed by anyone who knows what a green box is (in the subjective terms they realize it in).

Objectivity exists, but only in the first moment of life. Immediately onward subjectivity is created out of perceptions and basing our interpretation off of these perceptions.

[mauvaise foi]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 11:44 PM
I was reading another thread and I stumbled across the words "creatively overcoming nihilism." It is apparent to me that Heidegger and several others, through different processes, attempted to approach the question of Being from a "creative" perspective that seems to transcend ideas of faith and nihilism.

Can one elaborate on this further for me? I apologize about the shortness of the post, I wrote a longer one on this topic and posted it in the "learning.." forum but nothing has come of it as of yet.
I think "overcoming nihilism" means something like creating meaning and values in a meaningless and valueless world. As Alert Camus said in the preface to the Myth of Sisyphus, "Nihilism itself gives us the tools to go beyond nihilism." (or something to that effect). Basically Camus's position was that existence is Absurd, but meaning can still be created by a struggle against this Absurdity. To get a better perspective on this, read anything by Camus, but especially The Myth of Sisyphus and The Rebel.

[Angry Young Man]

Why overcome nihilism? It's brill! My understanding is that it's a fancy word for moral freedom and rejection of religious values.

[apathy maybe]

I agree, why do we want to overcome nihilism? Nihilistic is what every materialist should be, we recognise that there are no "natural laws" or "natural rights". The universe does not care about you, the universe simply exists.

Being a nihilist does not (as I understand it at least) mean no ethics, it simply rejects the idea that ethics are "right" or "wrong".

Materialists are more rational anyway.

[karmaradical]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 01:07 PM
Why overcome nihilism? It's brill! My understanding is that it's a fancy word for moral freedom and rejection of religious values.
Quite the opposite.

Read up on Neitzsche and existentialism in general.

Nihilism is something that must be over come, it is an anti-life, chaste, philosophy. Neitzsche correctly called Christianity the nihilist religion. It is! Just look at its hard-on for death.

One theory is that nihilism can be overcome by finding joy in life. I would say it can be overcome by realizing the bliss within life, and the freedom around us.

I perfer the other interpretation of nihilism as a sort of "nausea"

[Ka'aria]

i see nihilism as going v. a classless socity complety. if you have no drive orreson for life. communism and socialism wont work at all because there will be just one lazy, poor, class. and if it did work the leaders of the social govt. would have 2 force the people 2 work and cause a national slave system.

maybe im missunderstanding

[Angry Young Man]

The dictionary defines it as:

1. Total rejection of prevailing religious beliefs, moral principles, laws, etc., often from a sense of despair and the belief that life is devoid of meaning. Also more generally (merging with extended use of sense 3): negativity, destructiveness, hostility to accepted beliefs or established institutions.

[metalero]

I see it as a form of alienation in the marxist sense, which can be overcome by achieving class-consciousness aimed at overthrowing a system of human misery and exploitation.

[Raúl Duke]

It seems that people are discusing 2 types of nihilism:

1.
The dictionary defines it as:

1. Total rejection of prevailing religious beliefs, moral principles, laws, etc., often from a sense of despair and the belief that life is devoid of meaning. Also more generally (merging with extended use of sense 3): negativity, destructiveness, hostility to accepted beliefs or established institutions. This seems more like a definition of non-conformism, except the part 3 (I think its part 2, since it skip from 1 to 3) about negativity and destructiveness and the part about sense of despair Also in this version it mentions the belief that life is devoid of meaning, in which I would just be like an Absurdist and "struggle" or overcome nihilism.

and

2. (What I assume others are referring nihilism as, I could be wrong.)
That nothing is of any value, that everything is worthless. In this definition, the revolution would be worthless, the world is worthless, etc. Basically it could also be interpreted as the desire to go to death or nothingness (Nietzsche's critique of christianity and its
hard-on for death!. In other definition it would mean that "nothing is true, all is false", but this definition is use less likely.

Basically, the Nihilism refered by RedStarOverYorkshire and apathy maybe are similar to the 1rst definition (Hopscotch Anthill ideas of nihilism reminds me of a definition I heard about the Russian Nihilists, which they wanted to destroy the old order, morality, etc and replace them with new and probably personal ones)
The others have the 2nd view, which I think seems to cause some confusion between both groups because I think the 2nd view groups agree that the old morality, etc should be overcome and that we should reject most if not all prevailing beliefs, morality, etc that the 1rst group sees has "nihilism".

I ultimately agree with mauvaise foi, our world is nihilist because it has no meaning (we are born and we all die, the end. Is there a universal meaning of life for all humans? I don't think so) and it really has no universal values (maybe you could draw morality/values, based on human nature {which is abstract}, which is what I read in Kropotkin's Anarchist Morality, maybe its possible...but it still gives no universal meaning to human life in my opinion) so instead we create our personal meaning and values based on our ideas or self-interests, etc (somewhat in the Russian Nihilist sense...)

So overcoming nihilism is more like a struggle with nihilism, or in existentialist-absurdist views, a struggle with the absurd. (In my opinion)

Also, to clearify the thread, what kind of nihilism are we figting or overcoming against? the 1rts type or the second type? I believe we should go against the 2nd type (and the despair part and meaningless part of the 1rst.)

(All I said are just my opinions and they could be wrong)

[apathy maybe]

Total rejection of prevailing religious beliefs, moral principles, laws, etc
Yes ... But forget about the despair bit.

As revolutionaries we should reject the prevailing beliefs, moral principles, laws etc. After all, they are put in place by the current ruling class, we wish to remove their power and give it to everyone. One way they stay in power is by pushing their system of thought on the rest of us.

We should reject their system of thought and substitute our own. And it can be a different system for each individual.

As revolutionaries we should be "nihilistic".

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 08:46 PM
I see it as a form of alienation in the marxist sense, which can be overcome by achieving class-consciousness aimed at overthrowing a system of human misery and exploitation.

Ahh... but that's where false-class consciousness will get you.

Nihilism is far too easy to get sucked into. However, what Neitzsche wrote about a lot was dominance of the over-men above the herd. Now THAT must be avoided.