E.C.Guevara - The Stalinist

[Nemo Etomer]

The stalinist Ernesto Che Guevara is the romantic guru of the statecapitalist national 'left' which hail a politician who represents party dictatorship, statecapitalism and nationalism. E.C.Guevara admired the regimes in China under Mao and North Korea under Kim Ill-Sung before he broke with Fidel Castro's more pro-Kreml policy. Both represented police and military oppression of free workers' organizations.

The capitalist propaganda with stalinist and trotskyist groups are spreading the myth about Che as a revolutionary. Ernesto Che Guevara was in reality a political representative for a state capitalist bourgeoisie in a developing country. This upper class is struggling for 'their' part of the world market on the costs of the capitalists
in the more developed countries. They are fighting for the 'right' to exploite the international working class.

Ernesto Guevara was born June 14 1928 in the city Rosario, Argentina. In his youth before a travel to Guatemala Ernesto Guevara wrote:

"I have sworn before a picture of old and mourned comrade Stalin
that I won't rest until I see these capitalists octopuses annihilated."

For E.Guevara, later known under the name Ernesto 'Che' Guevara, was state capitalism, nationalism and 'socialism' mixed in one cathegory.

Che exposed his ruthlessness as a guerilla leader in the 26-July Movement. He defended death penalty against lack of discipline. But it could also be because of information to the enemy even if it was a passed event with no consequeces. At one event came Che forward with a proposals to execute some comrades because they instigated a hunger strike against the poor food and ineffective organization. However, Guevara was prevented to fulfill his harsh plans.

In the beginning was the 26-July Movement against the Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista not dominated by stalinists. But Che was active in connections with the stalinist group 'People's Socialist Party'. With the victory over the Batista regime in 1959 was Che given the responsibility to build up the new party dictatorship. He did not show any pardon against adversaries. More than a half thousand were
executed and we may wonder if all got a fair chance to defend themselves. In 1960 were the same weapons aimed against militants of the working class who were critical to the new regime. Che was responsible for the oppression of the anarcho-syndicalists and in 1962 was the trotskyist organization forbidden and its leadership thrown in jail. Che defended it with the words 'You can not be for the revolution and against the Cuban Communist Party'. So he repeated Stalin's lies against Trotsky and accused trotskyists of being 'provocateurs' and 'imperialist agents'. Guevara worked as intense as any KGB bureaucrat to create a control system over the people.

Che declared in connection to the US-Cuba crisis in 1962 that if he was in charge for the soviet missiles would they be launched against USA. As a stalinist and nationalist didn't he bother this would be a gigantic slaughter of ordinary people. If the same Che was alive today would he probably declared sympathy with Al-Qaida and Usama Bin Laden. But after a visit in 'Soviet' Union in 1963 turned Che against the Russian type of party dictatorship and joined the stalinism of Mao Zedung. He admired China under Mao and North Korea under Kim Il-Sung.

The politics on Cuba with the model from 'Soviet' Union ment stagnation for the industry and agriculture. The same way ended Che's maoist inspired guerilla war in Eastern Congo not far away from the border of Tanzania. The final came in Bolivia. October 9 1967 was Ernesto 'Che' Guevara executed by the military in Bolivia after being captured the day before. The same way he had treated his adversaries some years earlier was he treated himself.

Ernesto Guevara, born 14 June 1928 in Rosario, Argentina. Executed by Bolivian military 9 October 1967 in Villogrande, Bolivia. A strong personality who landed on a wrong path in the struggle for a better world.

Ernesto Che Guevara was only 39 years of age.


Nemo Etomer
http://www.geocities.com/youcreatedcosmos/news.html

[Severian]

I'm going to ignore the generalities and look into the specific accusations.


Originally posted by Nemo [email protected] 27 2006, 06:40 PM
In his youth before a travel to Guatemala Ernesto Guevara wrote:

"I have sworn before a picture of old and mourned comrade Stalin
that I won't rest until I see these capitalists octopuses annihilated."
Whoop-de-do. Once upon a time, Che praised Stalin.

Actions speak louder. The politics Che practiced and advocated did not resemble Stalin's - or there never would have been a Cuban revolution.


In the beginning was the 26-July Movement against the Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista not dominated by stalinists. But Che was active in connections with the stalinist group 'People's Socialist Party'.

So were others: in bringing the PSP into the fight against the Batista dicatorship. But the July 26th movement never became dominated by the PSP - rather the PSP became dominated by the July 26th movement.

The PSP, in line with the non-revolutionary politics of the Moscow-sponsored parties, initially denounced the July 26th movement as "bourgeois putchists", then had to get on board with the revolution they led.

Anibal Escalante, one of the PSP's principal leaders, did become organization secretary of the Integrated Revolutionary Organizations. (Which was a merger of the July 26th movement, PSP, and Revolutionary Directorate.) He tried to turn this into PSP bureaucratic domination, a Stalin-style counterrevolution - but failed. He was kicked out of the party in disgrace.

Another major PSP leader, Blas Roca, moved into obscurity around this time. Of the members of the Central Committee since, only one is a former PSPer - Carlos Rafael Rodriguez. Unlike Escalante and Roca, he went over to the kind of politics practiced by Fidel and Che.


With the victory over the Batista regime in 1959 was Che given the responsibility to build up the new party dictatorship. He did not show any pardon against adversaries.

No pardon for Batista's torturers and the CIA-sponsored terrorists, it's true. And rightly so. It's odd a supposed leftist would compain that "More than a half thousand were executed and we may wonder if all got a fair chance to defend themselves."

500 Batistianos is tiny compared to either the Batista regime's murder roll - or those of Stalinist regimes with their teror against working people.


In 1960 were the same weapons aimed against militants of the working class who were critical to the new regime.

A false implication; left opponents certainly were not subject to the same severity.
It's regrettable that the newspaper of the Posadas group of "Trotskyists" was closed - even though it was bugfuck crazy, advocating global nuclear war and military action by Cuba against the U.S. Guantanamo base. If anarcho-syndicalists were suppressed for their criticisms, rather than for joining the armed counterrevolution, that's also an error.

But it's flat untrue to put their suppression together with the execution of thousands of Batistiano murderers and say the same weapons were used.


Che defended it with the words 'You can not be for the revolution and against the Cuban Communist Party'.

Source? Probably a fabricated quote, one of many. Does not turn up on Google.


So he repeated Stalin's lies against Trotsky and accused trotskyists of being 'provocateurs' and 'imperialist agents'.

Misleading; he later apologized.
On one occasion, Guevara attacked the newspaper of the Cuban Trotskyists over TV. News of this attack was quickly disseminated, since there are many forces, including Stalinist-minded, who are interested in driving a wedge between the Cuban revolution and Trotskyism. Only months later did we learn accidentally that on TV, the very next night after this episode, Guevara apologized to the “Trotskyist comrades” for the misrepresentation of their views and said that he had been mistaken in his interpretation of what they had said. Even at Punta del Este, Guevara met with leading representatives of the Posadas group, and they gave banner lines to this interview, paying no attention to the alleged attack on them, as if this were inconsequential or had been garbled by the reporter who included it in his dispatch.
source (http://www.marxists.org/archive/hansen/1962/11/acidtest.htm#n2)


Che declared in connection to the US-Cuba crisis in 1962 that if he was in charge for the soviet missiles would they be launched against USA.

False, and ironically the original source is Stalinist - a reporter for a British "Communist" newspaper. Their probable motive - to fend off Cuba's criticisms of the terms of Khruschev's deal with the U.S. By setting up a straw man, claiming the Cuban communist leadership sought global nuclear war.

Castro's cables to Khruschev are now publicly available; he did not suggest starting a war and explictly, indignantly, rejected Khruschev's implication that he had.

What's more, the Cuban government has a 40-year record of action; they're careful to avoid provocation or unnecessarily giving Washington any excuse for war. Even in Angola, fighting the apartheid regime - they sought a political solution involving a negotiated South African withdrawal from Angola and Namibia, not all-out war to the death. They refrained from continuing their offensive into Nambia and South Africa, even though they had the military capability to do so.


But after a visit in 'Soviet' Union in 1963 turned Che against the Russian type of party dictatorship and joined the stalinism of Mao Zedung.

False; again retails a Stalinist (this time Maoist) claim. All Che's public statements treat the USSR and China similarly, whether in criticism or praise - as did Fidel Castro's from this time. For details, see this thread. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=42762&hl="The+claim+is+that+Che+supported+the+Chinese"&view=findpost&p=487232)


The same way ended Che's maoist inspired guerilla war in Eastern Congo not far away from the border of Tanzania.

"Che's Maoist-inspired guerilla war"? Congolese nationalists - supporters of Patrice Lumumba - were waging that war before Che, or aid from Mao's government, arrived.

I'll just point out it ain't typical of Stalinist apparatchiks to give up their lives of luxury to go out and join guerilla movements in other countries. They sometimes aided those movements, when it served their purposes to use 'em as bargaining chips in their rotten deals with imperialism.

But the consistent revolutionary internationalism of Che - and the Cuban revolution - is the opposite of Stalinists' "socialism in one country."


The final came in Bolivia. October 9 1967 was Ernesto 'Che' Guevara executed by the military in Bolivia after being captured the day before. The same way he had treated his adversaries some years earlier was he treated himself.

A lie. Guevara did not murder captured enemy soldiers.

Sometimes the Rebel Army in Cuba would execute Batistiano officers for their war crimes - but they certainly didn't lie about it. Che's murderers tried to pretend he'd been killed in combat. They hid his body to conceal the truth.

This false comparison, like everything else in your post, tends to side with imperialism. Every one of your threadbare slanders is also used by openly pro-capitalist opponents of the revolution.

[Lenin's Law]

Severian - Excellent Post.

There is really nothing more for me to add. Very well done, Comrade!

[Rollo]

Yeah, I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Nemo Etomer]

Severian wrote:
"Whoop-de-do. Once upon a time, Che praised Stalin. Actions speak louder. The politics Che practiced and advocated did not resemble Stalin's - or there never would have been a Cuban revolution."

Yes, he did and when praising Stalin he did so by praising a party-dictatorship oppressing the working class population not different from what we see under the more open fascist states.

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"So were others: in bringing the PSP into the fight against the Batista dicatorship. But the July 26th movement never became dominated by the PSP - rather the PSP became dominated by the July 26th movement. The PSP, in line with the non-revolutionary politics of the Moscow-sponsored parties, initially denounced the July 26th movement as "bourgeois putchists", then had to get on board with the revolution they led. Anibal Escalante, one of the PSP's principal leaders, did become organization secretary of the Integrated Revolutionary Organizations. (Which was a merger of the July 26th movement, PSP, and Revolutionary Directorate.) He tried to turn this into PSP bureaucratic domination, a Stalin-style counterrevolution - but failed. He was kicked out of the party in disgrace. Another major PSP leader, Blas Roca, moved into obscurity around this time. Of the members of the Central Committee since, only one is a former PSPer - Carlos Rafael Rodriguez. Unlike Escalante and Roca, he went over to the kind of politics practiced by Fidel and Che."

This confirms what I wrote: the July 26 movement was not dominated by stalinists. The criticism of the stalinist Che Guevara was not written to go into detail of all the tactical dispositions of Fidel Castro who in his youth admired the Fascist Benito Mussolini and Juan Peron - two admirers of Adolf Hitler.

Ernesto Che Guevara to Rene Ramos Latour:
Because of my ideological background, I belong to those who believe that the solutions of the world's problems lies behind the iron curtain, and I see this movement //July 26, my comment// as one of the many inspired by the bourgeoisie's desires to free themselves from the chain of imperialism. I always thought of Fidel as an authentic leader of the leftist bourgeoisie, although is image is enhanced by personal qualities of extraordinary brilliance that set him above the class.

In July 1961 the 26 July Movement, PSP and Directorio Revolucionario (DR) merge to form the Integrated Revolutionary Organisations (ORI). PSP dominated the new organization but was later isolated by Castro to create his own stalinist oriented party, a party dictatorship where Ernesto Che Guevara also was one of the bosses. Castro and Guevara never attacked the old PSP for supporting party dictatorship but that it was too sectarian.

*

"No pardon for Batista's torturers and the CIA-sponsored terrorists, it's true. And rightly so. It's odd a supposed leftist would compain that "More than a half thousand were executed and we may wonder if all got a fair chance to defend themselves." 500 Batistianos is tiny compared to either the Batista regime's murder roll - or those of Stalinist regimes with their teror against working people."

How do you know. Where you there and check all the accusations_

*

"A false implication; left opponents certainly were not subject to the same severity.
It's regrettable that the newspaper of the Posadas group of "Trotskyists" was closed - even though it was bugfuck crazy, advocating global nuclear war and military action by Cuba against the U.S. Guantanamo base. If anarcho-syndicalists were suppressed for their criticisms, rather than for joining the armed counterrevolution, that's also an error. But it's flat untrue to put their suppression together with the execution of thousands of Batistiano murderers and say the same weapons were used."

Reply
The information is not false at all.

... The anarchists and anarcho-syndicalists had their press closed down and many militants were thrown in prison. Che was directly implicated in this. This was followed in 1962 with the banning of the Trotskyists and the imprisonment of their militants. Che said: “You cannot be for the revolution and be against the Cuban Communist Party.” He repeated the old lies against the Trots that they were agents of imperialism and provocateurs. He helped set up a secret police, the C-2 and had a key role in creating the Committees for the Defence of the Revolution, which were locally and regionally based bodies for spying on and controlling the mass of the population.

Link from theanarchistlibrary . org / library / various-authors-che-guevara-why-anarchists-should-view-him-critically




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"Source? Probably a fabricated quote, one of many. Does not turn up on Google."

So it does not turn up on Google? What is clear is tha Ernesto Che Guevara accused Trotskyists to be agents of imperialism, imperialist provocateurs. Considering the party dictatorship he supported the quote is a correct political description of this man.

*

The banning of Trotskyists and Anarchists, shutting down their organizations and throwing them in jail exposes some of the counter revolutionary policy of the Castro/Guevara led state apparatus.

*

"False; again retails a Stalinist (this time Maoist) claim. All Che's public statements treat the USSR and China similarly, whether in criticism or praise - as did Fidel Castro's from this time. For details, see this thread."

Read the folloowing!

The construction of socialism for Che is inseparable from certain moral values, in contrast to the “economistic” conceptions of Stalin, Krushchev and their successors, who consider only the “development of the productive forces.” In a famous interview with the journalist Jean Daniel, in July 1963, Che was already developing an implicit critique of “actually existing socialism”: “Economic socialism without a communist morale does not interest me. We are fighting poverty, but at the same time alienation….If communism is dissociated from consciousness, it may be a method of distribution but it is no longer a revolutionary morality.”

Link from solidarity-us . org / site / node / 2384


(4) L’Express, July 25, 1963, 9.

More can be read here where Guevara who defended Stalin against the criticism of Kruchev and even defended the invasion of Hungary also became critical to the economic model of USSR. But he never questioned the party dictatorship, meaning he in fact only scratched the surface of the problem of state capitalism in developing countries.

globalresearch . ca / che-guevara-s-final-verdict-on-the-soviet-economy / 9315


*

Severian wrote!

”I'll just point out it ain't typical of Stalinist apparatchiks to give up their lives of luxury to go out and join guerilla movements in other countries. They sometimes aided those movements, when it served their purposes to use 'em as bargaining chips in their rotten deals with imperialism.

But the consistent revolutionary internationalism of Che - and the Cuban revolution - is the opposite of Stalinists' "socialism in one country."

Reply!
Every one who have read history know that guerilla wars existed long time before the time of Mao. However, Che was impressed by the Stalinists in China. He hailed Mao and Kim Il Sung as his raw models.

The Maoist inspired guerilla method was based on the idea that in developing countries will the majority of the peasants be the biggest force against capitalism and from there should the countryside encircle the cities and pave the way for change. All this is wrong. Under capitalism are the political, economy and the military force linked to the cities controlling the countryside. Not the other way around.

*

”A lie. Guevara did not murder captured enemy soldiers.”

Read this!

"Due to the lack of discipline among the new men... it was necessary to establish a rigid discipline, organise a high command and set up a Staff". He demanded the death penalty for "informers, insubordinates, malingerers and deserters". He himself personally carried out executions. Indeed the first execution carried out against an informer by the Castroists was undertaken by Che. He wrote: "I ended the problem giving him a shot with a .32 pistol in the right side of the brain". On another occasion he planned on shooting a group of guerrillas who had gone on hunger strike because of bad food. Fidel intervened to stop him. Another guerrilla who dared to question Che was ordered into battle without a weapon!

Link from spunk . org / texts / groups / acf / sp001768 . html



*


Ernesto Che Guevara was a nationalist, a stalinist and a fierce defender of a party dictatorship. All this reveal the counter revolutionary politics he actually represented. But we had to remove the romantic style he wrapped himself into.

Nemo Etomer
Stockholm

[erupt]

I think it's necessary to remember a few things, and I'll keep this short so as to refrain from creating another argument-thread like the last.

A revolution, of any kind, is no tea party. Somebody's decision and impulse to desert could've alerted the Cuban army;the deserters aren't complete victims here. Also, concerning deserting, when possible Che told the soldiers under his command to desert if they want when they had the chance and wouldn't affect others.

Che's alignment (and I hesitate to call it that) with the PRC and Mao was pragmatism, in reality, especially during the Sino-Soviet Split.

Concerning nuclear annihilation, there's a quote I heard of where Guevara said something along the lines that achieving socialism will only be accomplished after most of the world suffers from a nuclear catastrophe; this is hardly saying he wants it to happen, though.

I get that he's not what most people in the world think he is, but he's also definitely not some mass-murdering "Stalinist", even if he maintained his political thought processes from his youth until the day he was assassinated.

[Art Vandelay]

words

Did you seriously come back 8 years later in hopes of continuing the discussion with that user?

:lol: