In fighting

[Comrade_Scott]

This is a question that relates to R_P_A_S topic titeld We are not United...

Comrades i have been here for a while and with all this in fighting in this website that when the revolution does come that Communist around the world will instead of uniting we will argue and just kill each other.... please lets all just forget which branch we belong to and just follow the basic principals of Communism which is to aim for a stateless classless system where we are all "brothers/sisters" of this ideology......... your respone will be greatly appreciated thanks

[Labor Shall Rule]

I am not letting some worthless utopian ruin the most important time ever recorded in all of world history.

[Comrade_Scott]

so instead of compromising you are willing to fight and tear it apart?? why... and please go into detail as i am still a bit new here

[which doctor]

Maybe all this infighting is a good thing?

After all it is our future we are fighting for!

[Ol' Dirty]

Comrade_Scott has a point. All of this ideological blather is making the movement weak. Instead of fighting each other we should help each other despite our differences.

[Comrade_Scott]

Please corect me if im wrong which i may be but i feel that the right(cappies) dont fear us as much for two reasons 1. we are so few in numbers in the case of nations with the ideology and 2. we keep killing ourselves off... a perfect example being Grenada Maurice Bishop was killed because he was not "left enough" so they the party members killed him and the party never recoverd. Stop repeating the past and lets unite and defeate the cappies... im not sayng the Trotskyists should love the stalinists hell you dont even have to love them but just endure and work with and compromise with them or else we will end up like the new jewel movement and just kill each other and then the capitalists will just laugh and let us kill ourselves while they continue to exploit the masses. criticize if necessary

[Labor Shall Rule]

You smurfs are just tickling me with your "let us all stuck together" attitude. This is the internet, not a place of revolutionary occurances. When such a time arrives to this world, I am absolutely sure that we won't all go to cutting throats. But we can't have anarchists throwing bombs whenever the worker's state uses authoritarian tactics against that of the bourgeoisie. We must stress organization, worker self-management of the means of production, political participation of that working class, and the absolute destruction of any bureaucracy that starts to develop in such process. If the anarchist or left marxist compromises with me on that, I am fine.

[Comrade_Scott]

very true RedDali very true RedDali and i hope you are correct because it would be a shame if after the revolution we would kill off each other.... oh and thanks for your input and criticism

[Everyday Anarchy]

As an anarchist, I refuse to compromise for anything short of absolute freedom to live my life how I wish and for others to have that same freedom.

If the Marxist-Leninists start talking about setting up a "worker's" dictatorship, fuck that. If the Stalinists start talking about sending all those who disagree just the slightest to the gulags, fuck that.


We just simply cannot 'unite' 100%. There is no compromising when it comes to freedom.

[Labor Shall Rule]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 12:35 AM
As an anarchist, I refuse to compromise for anything short of absolute freedom to live my life how I wish and for others to have that same freedom.

If the Marxist-Leninists start talking about setting up a "worker's" dictatorship, fuck that. If the Stalinists start talking about sending all those who disagree just the slightest to the gulags, fuck that.


We just simply cannot 'unite' 100%. There is no compromising when it comes to freedom.
Just more proof that anarchists are truly reactionary. Russia is a perfect example of their retardation. When the soviets seized state power under the popular Boshlevik hammer and sickle, many anarchist worker councils refused to participate in the Soviet system and formed independant councils. With this, they limited the distribution of goods that labourers produced within their factories to that of the small community that the workplace was located in, right when all of Russia needed a collective effort to even survive, let alone create socialism. In many communal areas located in rural parts of Russia, they also refused to permit the flow of goods into urban centers, that was experiencing famine at that current time. From the very start, they robbed state-owned banks, battled with worker millitias in the streets, bombed Boshlevik (as well as Menshevik) labor rallies, and even used assasination as a tactic against the newly formed Soviet democracy.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 07:12 PM
But we can't have anarchists throwing bombs whenever the worker's state uses authoritarian tactics against that of the bourgeoisie.
Since when do anarchists condemn the use of authoritarian tactics against the bourgeois?

You clearly know nothing of Anarchism.

[The Grey Blur]

As a (relative) newbie I can understand your confusion with why the many sects of Communism but it's only the internet. Members of this board no matter their idoelogical differences would inevitably unite in a proper revolutionary situation.

Or at least I hope they would...

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 11:45 PM
Maybe all this infighting is a good thing?

After all it is our future we are fighting for!
You've turned into a proper little self-righteous anarchist I see FOB

[Labor Shall Rule]

Originally posted by FoB+Aug 27 2006, 01:31 AM--> (FoB @ Aug 27 2006, 01:31 AM)
[email protected] 26 2006, 07:12 PM
But we can't have anarchists throwing bombs whenever the worker's state uses authoritarian tactics against that of the bourgeoisie.
Since when do anarchists condemn the use of authoritarian tactics against the bourgeois?

You clearly know nothing of Anarchism.[/b]
"Anti-authoritarianism" :huh: ?

I can't say that I have met one anarchist that has supported or justified anything that Lenin or other marxists have done to defeat the bourgeois class. I don't read the idealistic fairy tales of Bakunin and Kropotkin though; so I most likely will know nothing on the subject of anarchism.

[RebelDog]

I'm afraid that instead of agreeing that the first priority is the destruction of capitalism many on the left save their most agressive action for people who should be regarded as their comrades.
All this serves to do is to rip the movement apart and destroy peoples belief in the human race's ability to co-operate and share and build something worth keeping. I understand everything the anarchists say and I will fight along side them as one. But I'm able to understand that a dictatorship of the proletariat is much more desirable than the current catastrophe.

[Labor Shall Rule]

I wish they would recognize that we have similiar aims and that we aren't as nearly bad as they think we are. I was snooping around in a Myspace "Anti-Communism" group, and the anarchists were siding with the idiotic libertarians and fascists in their hatred of Lenin and how he was the central reason that famine, civil war, and authoritarianism was stalking the land of Russia. You can examine what Noam Chomsky has said about the Russian Revolution, and then look at Ronald Reagan's interpretation of that historical event, and not even notice the difference between the two writings!

[Comrade_Scott]

i dont care if one is a maoist or a supporter of trotsky all i care about is that he/ she is opposing capitalism and wants to see it go down as a failed system and that to me is all that matters..........

[Comrade_Scott]

oh yeah and want to see a working and functional communist society :)

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 09:06 PM
oh yeah and want to see a working and functional communist society :)
And that is where all the fighting begins. We're not necessarily *****ing because somebody calls themselves a Stalinist, for example, but because of how a Stalinist plans on setting up a communist society.


We're mixed on the means to communism. Yes, we all want to destroy capitalism, and we're not fighting over that part. Some want to establish a 'transition state' between capitalism and communism, whereas others wish to do away with the state altogether.
Then, we have fighting over how exactly a 'transition state' would operate.


You can't really bring us together like that. If there's a revolution, I will not mind fighting alongside a Marxist, but I will not let said Marxist enforce his ideas onto me. If it ends up with a vanguardist party in rule, then the revolution I'm fighting in hasn't come close to ending and I will continue to fight the new rulers.



:AO:

[Comrade_Scott]

good point Xero thanks for that bit of advice.... but we can compromise no leaders for a worker state...or something like that....pardon me if i sound very green but im new on this site and talking to more Intelligent people than my friends lol

[Everyday Anarchy]

Well then welcome to RevLeft and I hope you learn a lot here. Don't be afraid to speak your mind. It's a very noble cause to unite us all, but I'm afraid it may be a tad bit naive to think its possible.


However, don't let any of us put you down. Go on fighting for what you believe in.

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 11:24 PM
please lets all just forget which branch we belong to and just follow the basic principals of Communism which is to aim for a stateless classless system where we are all "brothers/sisters" of this ideology
every communist wants that. everyone (mostly) want the same end product. most of the differences are not related to the end product, but HOW to get there.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Permanent Revolution+Aug 26 2006, 08:34 PM--> (Permanent Revolution @ Aug 26 2006, 08:34 PM)
[email protected] 26 2006, 11:45 PM
Maybe all this infighting is a good thing?

After all it is our future we are fighting for!
You've turned into a proper little self-righteous anarchist I see FOB [/b]
Damn straight.

It's what I've found applys best to my situation.

[Hot2Trot]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 11:24 PM
This is a question that relates to R_P_A_S topic titeld We are not United...

Comrades i have been here for a while and with all this in fighting in this website that when the revolution does come that Communist around the world will instead of uniting we will argue and just kill each other.... please lets all just forget which branch we belong to and just follow the basic principals of Communism which is to aim for a stateless classless system where we are all "brothers/sisters" of this ideology......... your respone will be greatly appreciated thanks
Comrade!

Your disappointment at the state of our situation, re: infighting, is understandable. In fact, I've recently exited a period of thought similar to the one you currently possess. I could not quite understand the splits, factions, and currents that seemed to twirl and twist in an endless struggle-within-the-struggle...

For the most part, however, this is inevitable, and has been noted, may even be desirable. The difference of Lenin and Luxemburg, for instance, have given us some profound thought... and certainly, though those in Trotskyist currents tend think of Lenin and Trotsky as inhabiting the same political space, they too had profound differences of opinion.

Largely, I think the reason we fight and bicker and debate probably has to do with class struggle (in industrial nations particularly) being at something of a low ebb at the moment -- we disagree about the way to go forward, and the best way to get there - let alone the final destination.

FoB brings up an excellent point -- this is about the future, and well worth fighting for. (I only hope we're all agreed who our REAL opponents are. Hint: probably not anyone on this forum. Hint2: they probably possess vast stockpiles of military armaments and command wage-slave armies of men with rifles and batons.)

Debate is good, healthy, and necessary; only when it devolves into personal attack and meaningless mudslinging does it make me cringe.

Healthy disagreement and active debate are necessary to any revolutionary movement or movements, whether that be anarchist, socialist, communist, or otherwise, much as tension in the muscles are necessary to animate the body.

I echo statements posted to this topic: your sentiment seems, at first glance, naive: nonetheless, I encourage you to develop your line of thought and position, as it is an optimistic one -- and ultimately necessary for those great days when we may all find ourselves standing shoulder-to-shoulder on the barricades, in the Mass Strike, or whatever shape a future revolutionary situation trends towards.

Stick to your analysis (which, at its root, is sound) and develop it; best of luck.

[apathy maybe]

Originally posted by Comrade_Scott
please lets all just forget which branch we belong to and just follow the basic principals of Communism which is to aim for a stateless classless system where we are all "brothers/sisters" of this ideologyOnly trouble is that we don't all want the same thing. Sure ultimately most of the leftists on this board would be willing to say that they want some form of classless stateless society. Only trouble is, how to get there. The authoritarians are quite willing to take a few hundred years or more it seems, with them in power initially of course.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by FoB+Aug 27 2006, 09:58 PM--> (FoB @ Aug 27 2006, 09:58 PM)
Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 26 2006, 08:34 PM

[email protected] 26 2006, 11:45 PM
Maybe all this infighting is a good thing?

After all it is our future we are fighting for!
You've turned into a proper little self-righteous anarchist I see FOB
Damn straight.

It's what I've found applys best to my situation. [/b]
i.e sitting in your room working on DeviantART

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 11:24 PM
This is a question that relates to R_P_A_S topic titeld We are not United...

Comrades i have been here for a while and with all this in fighting in this website that when the revolution does come that Communist around the world will instead of uniting we will argue and just kill each other.... please lets all just forget which branch we belong to and just follow the basic principals of Communism which is to aim for a stateless classless system where we are all "brothers/sisters" of this ideology......... your respone will be greatly appreciated thanks
Protip: get off the internet. Real life leftist politics are nothing like this forum. This forum is a role playing game. In real life, obviously certain groups do not agree with each other, but the atmosphere between them is definitely not hostile, like on this forum.

[SPK]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 08:54 AM
Protip: get off the internet. Real life leftist politics are nothing like this forum. This forum is a role playing game. In real life, obviously certain groups do not agree with each other, but the atmosphere between them is definitely not hostile, like on this forum.
From where I'm at in the u.s., the atmosphere between anarchists, marxists, and leninists is definitely more hostile in "real-world" politics. In the actual movements, these different tendencies barely even speak to one another -- from what I've seen -- much less have intelligent and reasoned debates.

Of course, any kind of intelligent and reasonable debate among anyone is difficult in the actual movements. There is a tendency for people to become consumed in day-to-day organizing and tasks, and dialogue over the fundamental questions represented by different tendencies just goes by the wayside.

[CheGregory]

Although I personally follow the Fidelista, and Guevarist lines of Communism, I can tolerate anarchists at the present. The only thing I do not understand is why a forum is than shared with people of a very different ideology, if some of my Comrades have such a problem with anarchists.

Our ideologies share very little in common.