Carter on Castro

[emma_goldman]

"In my opinion, the embargo strengthens Castro and perpetuates communism in Cuba. A maximum degree of trade, tourism, commerce, visitation between our country and Cuba would bring an earlier end to Castro's regime."

-Jimmy Carter

Any thoughts? :)

[Janus]

Obviously Carter had little understanding of communism and was just looking for any arguement to lift the embargo.

[Severian]

Reflects a tactical debate within the ruling class over how to destroy the revolution.

It's certainly true their current policy has failed to bring down the Cuban government! But Carter or other tactical critics have failed to propose a more effective course.

There's certainly no reason this opinion should trouble supporters of the revolution. We oppose U.S. imperialism and all its tactics against Cuba, including the embargo - but certainly not just the embargo.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I like this one of his quotes better: “The real threat of Cuba is that they offer a model to be emulated by people who are dissatisfied with their lot or who are struggling to change things for the better.”

[Tekun]

With Carter's new "philanthropic undertakings" it seems that he's taken an interest in offering solutions for a wide range of problems, everything from poverty to hunger to Cuban democracy

His solutions no matter how outlandish they may seem, all but put blame on American imperialism and capitalism worldwide
Old man trying to deceive the masses :rolleyes:

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

The embargo has meant Cuba has developed ways of coping with shortages.

For example, just look at the healthcare. Its preventative rather than curative and still exceeds most first world nations healthcare. Amazing.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Its preventative rather than curative and still exceeds most first world nations healthcare.

Ah, the myth of "Cuban healthcare".

In first world nations healthcare the family doesn't have to bring food, pillows etc. to their loved ones who are in hospital.

A few years ago families had to bring stuff like lightbulbs. Now a lot of Cubans steal lightbulbs from hotels (the same goes for toilet paper), and the hotels often have to protect the light bulbs with barbed wire. But that's a different story.

A friend of mine know a guy who went to two years in prison because he tried to escape from Cuba. His wife delivered food to him every day. It's the same thing if one goes to hospital, food you will get from your family, and it is also almost demanded that you have a family member with you in hospital both day and night, to help you.

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 07:43 PM

Its preventative rather than curative and still exceeds most first world nations healthcare.

Ah, the myth of "Cuban healthcare".

In first world nations healthcare the family doesn't have to bring food, pillows etc. to their loved ones who are in hospital.

A few years ago families had to bring stuff like lightbulbs. Now a lot of Cubans steal lightbulbs from hotels (the same goes for toilet paper), and the hotels often have to protect the light bulbs with barbed wire. But that's a different story.

A friend of mine know a guy who went to two years in prison because he tried to escape from Cuba. His wife delivered food to him every day. It's the same thing if one goes to hospital, food you will get from your family, and it is also almost demanded that you have a family member with you in hospital both day and night, to help you.
You can't stand anyone making a positive point about Cuba, can you?

:rolleyes:

:angry:

[Karl Marx's Camel]

You can't stand anyone making a positive point about Cuba, can you?

First of, what I commented is not a "point". It's a myth.

Second, what I wrote is reality. If you are mad at reality, you are only banging your head against a wall.


Thirdly, I can't stand lies about Cuba, be it pro-Castro lies, or anti-Castro lies. They both infuriate me. And I will attack them all like a crazed madman with dynamite strapped around the waist. Myths and lies deserve to be blown to pieces, without any remorse or regret.


According to you we should swallow myths and lies?

[MiniOswald]

That quote does hold some truth, well the embargo certainly strengthened Castro. The reaction by the americans gave him national and international sympathy and support. Im sure if the americans had any idea of how long he'd hold onto power they would have done their best support trade with Castro, who knows, when the soviets collapsed they might have even been able to kill castros regime that way.

Think about it, if America had been trading freely with the Cubans and investing in the new cuba then the cuban regime may well have turned to the americans during the 'special period'. Thus the American government could kill the movement by giving it a big mac, rather than trying to starve it.

Castro has 50 something years of hating americans so hes a little set in his ways but if theyd hugged him rather than hit him in the late 50s/early 60s, he could be a completly different man.

Im sorry its late and im just writing incoherant musings

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 07:43 PM

Its preventative rather than curative and still exceeds most first world nations healthcare.

Ah, the myth of "Cuban healthcare".

In first world nations healthcare the family doesn't have to bring food, pillows etc. to their loved ones who are in hospital.

A few years ago families had to bring stuff like lightbulbs. Now a lot of Cubans steal lightbulbs from hotels (the same goes for toilet paper), and the hotels often have to protect the light bulbs with barbed wire. But that's a different story.

A friend of mine know a guy who went to two years in prison because he tried to escape from Cuba. His wife delivered food to him every day. It's the same thing if one goes to hospital, food you will get from your family, and it is also almost demanded that you have a family member with you in hospital both day and night, to help you.
ok alot of what you said isnt true, from talking to cubans they only have to take sheets and sometimes pillows...and why is that so horrible? they dont pay for anything else, and before castro, alot of areas didnt even have hosptials

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah, but NWOG isn't interested in perspective. The fact that Cuba surpasses every other third world country in every single social aspect isn't important to him.. and why should it be? He's at best a social-dem, and at worst an agent provocateur. Check his posts.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

He's at best a social-dem

Says the person who supports an authoritarian welfare state! :lol:


worst an agent provocateur.

I see you have learned a few things from your idols. Just accuse those that disagree with you: Call them agents. :rolleyes:



ok alot of what you said isnt true

What "is not true"?


from talking to cubans they only have to take sheets and sometimes pillows...

I mentioned food. You can get food, but the food is not good; It's bad.

And yes, the sheet-thing (as you mentioned) I agree with too.

[KC]

Yeah, look how horrible Cuba's healthcare system is:

http://therealcuba.com/kubac298.jpg
http://therealcuba.com/kubad298.jpg

More at The Real Cuba (http://therealcuba.com/Page10.htm)!!!

Look at this evidence! It is irrefutable! :rolleyes:

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 07:43 PM

Its preventative rather than curative and still exceeds most first world nations healthcare.

Ah, the myth of "Cuban healthcare".

In first world nations healthcare the family doesn't have to bring food, pillows etc. to their loved ones who are in hospital.

A few years ago families had to bring stuff like lightbulbs. Now a lot of Cubans steal lightbulbs from hotels (the same goes for toilet paper), and the hotels often have to protect the light bulbs with barbed wire. But that's a different story.

A friend of mine know a guy who went to two years in prison because he tried to escape from Cuba. His wife delivered food to him every day. It's the same thing if one goes to hospital, food you will get from your family, and it is also almost demanded that you have a family member with you in hospital both day and night, to help you.
NWOG, can you back up your statement which claims that family members have to bring food and pillows to those sick?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

whoops nevermind I didn't see KC's link

[Entrails Konfetti]

In all fairness KC we don't know what circumstances those were taken in.
Was there a state of emergency, where doctors deployed elsewhere, did thatman make that mess, did the other man pick at his stitches?

Also everywhere in the world has had some fuck-ups with operations.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Um... KC was being ironic..

He's pointing out that these bullshit arguments come from gusanos like the ones behind "the real Cuba".. try to find a source for anything on that site. Let me know how it works out.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

You know.

I was watching BBC news 24.

Up popped some english guy walking around Cuba to try an find out about cuban healthcare. I think the show was called "reporters".

Anyway, the dude from BBC news bascially said that Cuban healthcare was amazing. Cubans have like 4 trips to the dentists a year, while british people que for hours just to register with a scandinavian dentist which is hired out by the NHS lol.

Cubans live only one month less on average than americans. They fight heart disease, cancer & diabetes all the same ills first world country's have.

The cuban medical system also does somthing NO OTHER country deos. Sends 30,000+ of its own doctors to other country's to help those who are suffering and in need.

Not many third world countries can put first world health care to shame. Cuba does just that, opposes imperialism and struggles for the working class all the while.

How can a leftist criticise it?

[Tekun]

Originally posted by bloody_capitalist_sham
How can a leftist criticise it?

Don't know ask NWOG?



But on a personal note, regarding Cuba's doctors abroad

A couple of weeks ago, my family informed me on some news they got from some of our family members in Guatemala (where Im from)
It seems that one of my father's family members was losing his sight due to cataracts in one of his eyes
This family member of ours lives in the city of Escuintla in the southern part of Guatemala
However, due to financial hardships, there was no way that he could afford surgery to correct this disease and thus restore his vision
Due to his deteriorating eye sight, he was fired from his job, and his family was on the brink of losing their shack (because unfortunately that's what it is) and starving
Its unfortunate that my family like many other families in this part of the country barely make enough money to subsist, yet the US friendly government see's no problem in this
I've visited them, and its pretty heartbreaking to see their conditions
Anyways, so a month ago, this family member was approached by a Cuban doctor who told him that Cuba was offering many Guatemalan's corrective eye surgery for free
When the doctor examined my family member's eye, he advised him to sign up, or else he would certainly lose his eye sight
Taking his advice my family member signed up and was flown to Cuba, given room and board at a hotel, and was subsequently operated on
After the surgery, my family member flew back to Guatemala, and he says that he now see's better than ever
He see's clearly, without problems, and he is now working full time
He says that he is forever endowed to Cuba and their doctors, for saving his eye sight and for getting him back on his feet
Him and his family are still poor, but at least he has his eyesight, and that gives him hope

So, I am also very proud and thankful of Cuba's generosity towards the poor and neglected
If it hadn't been for Cuba and funds from Venezuela, my family member would now be blind, and his family would be out on the streets begging
This goes to show that although Cuba isn't perfect, they're generosity towards the masses of oppressed ppl is truly inspiring

[KC]

Venezuela is actually doing a similar thing like that with US citizens. They are offering free corrective eye surgery in Venezuela for anyone that signs up (which includes the flight and a place to stay, maybe even food, but I'm not sure). It's called Mission Miracle, if you want to look it up. I'm guessing the Cubans and Venezuelans have been working together on programs like that.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

NWOG, can you back up your statement which claims that family members have to bring food and pillows to those sick?

I shall see what I can find on the net.

In any case:
If you go to Cuba and live in Cuba for a few years in an ordinary neighbourhood, and if you ask some Cubans here and there this during these years and if they all say "no, that is not true, never heard of that happening", if everyone during your stay told you that it is not true, I will ask the mods to delete my account at revleft.

[KC]

If you go to Cuba and live in Cuba for a few years in an ordinary neighbourhood, and if you ask some Cubans here and there this during these years and if they all say "no, that is not true, never heard of that happening", if everyone during your stay told you taht it is not true, I will ask the mods to delete my account at revleft.

You know, you could just ask CdL what they said. After all, he lived there for like a year.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

You know, you could just ask CdL what they said. After all, he lived there for like a year.

If I recall correctly he was there on propaganda tour, working in Venceremos Brigade for two months where he cut sugar, and then another time for 3 months.

In any case, who gives a shit? He supports the burning of satellite dishes in Cuba. He has hinted out that he supports the beating up of dissidents. Well so you do, Khayembii Communique. I refer to the "Cuba: Crackdown on pirate TV" thread in which both you and CdL replied.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 01:35 AM
I mentioned food. You can get food, but the food is not good; It's bad.
So no macdonalds? Damn, Castro must be hiding all the food.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

So no macdonalds? Damn, Castro must be hiding all the food.

Now you are just being childish.

[chebol]

No, NWOG, you are just being silly.

"bad" food? Care to elucidate? What kind of "bad"? Off? Badly cooked? Bad recipes? (Cuban cuisine isn't exactly well known - for good reasons....)

The onus in much of this "DEBATE" is as much on you as it is on those of us who support Cuba. You are making swathe after swathe of accusations about the dearth of quality of life in Cuba, of the squalor, of the dissatifaction, etc. Now, having been to Cuba, I find that people there are willing to complain when things are bad - but not nearly as much as people here are. So, if you want to keep making ambit claims (like "bad" food), back it up buddy. Those of us who support Cuba cannot go around wiping your arse because you don't believe that Cubans are allowed to drink coffee at lunchtime on Tuesday, or any other similarly random thing. If you cannot put the evidence and arguments already made (abundantly) in context and draw a few reasonable conclusions from them, you've no hope at all.

Junk like this:

Ah, the myth of "Cuban healthcare".

In first world nations healthcare the family doesn't have to bring food, pillows etc. to their loved ones who are in hospital.

A few years ago families had to bring stuff like lightbulbs. Now a lot of Cubans steal lightbulbs from hotels (the same goes for toilet paper), and the hotels often have to protect the light bulbs with barbed wire. But that's a different story.

A friend of mine know a guy who went to two years in prison because he tried to escape from Cuba. His wife delivered food to him every day. It's the same thing if one goes to hospital, food you will get from your family, and it is also almost demanded that you have a family member with you in hospital both day and night, to help you.

needs to be backed up mate, at least occasionally, or you are merely spreading bourgeois propaganda.


Actually, I think this says it all:

A friend of mine know a guy who went to two years in prison because he tried to escape from Cuba
You believe this, you are a lost cause.