Any fellow students of Juche?

[JucheStudent]

I've been studying Juche (or self-reliance); the philosophy of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il and I sincerely believe that it is the forefront of the future. If it were not for Juche, The Democratic People's Republic of Korea would have been crushed a long time ago and its ability to withstand where so many have failed I find to be extremely admirable.

However, I got on the internet and I have failed to find any good forum for Juche students out there. So that is why I came here; I know for a fact that Che Guevara personally visited the DPRK (I don't call it North Korea; this name only legitimizes the division of Korea) and he lavished praise on the achievements of the Korean people and their philosophy of self reliance.

So my question is:
1. Are there any fellow students of Juche on this forum?
2. Are there enough to start another forum, maybe in partnership with this forum (maybe we could call it juche-lives.com in that case?)

Thank you for your attention.

[Jesus Christ]

lol
dont count on it buddy
Juche isnt too left
its mostly practiced in Korea by hierarchy that rule to justify the North Korean dictatorship

[Comrade Marcel]

I have not read much about Juche myself, I have only heard that most of the books are very poorely translated in to english and therefor very bland to read.

Here are some links though, I'm sure other people can add more:

http://www.dpr-korea.com

http://www.kimsoft.com/war/w-r-0.htm

[Jesus Christ]

but welcome to the board!

[Comrade Marcel]

Quote: from Primus32302 on 10:00 pm on July 22, 2003
lol
dont count on it buddy
Juche isnt too left
its mostly practiced in Korea by hierarchy that rule to justify the North Korean dictatorship


Justify? What justification other than U.S. Imperialism is possibly needed for the DPRK's proletarian dictatorship?

[Saint-Just]

I am a member of the Juche Idea Study Group of England.

I agree precisely with what you say about Juche. I have discussed the subject on this forum many times.

Despite what these few people here say there are people here who have similar opinions to us. I too believe that we should apply theories learnt from Juche to our own countries and to the world socialist movement.

May I ask what country you come from?

Also, check your private messages.


(Edited by Chairman Mao at 11:19 pm on July 22, 2003)

[elijahcraig]

Justify? What justification other than U.S. Imperialism is possibly needed for the DPRK's proletarian dictatorship?

It's not a proletarian dictatorship, it's a dictatorship of the elite who claim to be communists. I have no respect for DPRK's leaders. They're not Marxists as far as I'm concerned.

[Comrade Marcel]

How is it an "elite" dictatorship? Because you buy the slanderous U.S. propaganda machine about Kim Jong Il?

Have you ever actually studied the history fo the Korean Revolution from the ground up? I have... I have not however had a chance to really study the writings of Kim Il Sung & Kim Jong Il, but I have read about the Juche idea.

[Jesus Christ]

you are a poor misguided individual
and yes, I have researched the Korean "revolution"
nothin much there to support your point, if u are trying to make one

[elijahcraig]

How is it an "elite" dictatorship? Because you buy the slanderous U.S. propaganda machine about Kim Jong Il?

Have you ever actually studied the history fo the Korean Revolution from the ground up? I have... I have not however had a chance to really study the writings of Kim Il Sung & Kim Jong Il, but I have read about the Juche idea.

I have researched it, and Juche.

Do you believe everything the propaganda machine of North Korea tells you? Are you that naive? There are others who know about this, not just the US.

Kim Jung Il was placed and bred for leadership, he's no revolutionary. He lives in luxury while the rest starve. He went to a university which only the elite sons of the communist party leaders go to. That is an example of the elitism in DPRK. Don't be so naive.

[Jesus Christ]

he shoots and SCORES!

[Comrade Marcel]

Quote: from Primus32302 on 11:50 pm on July 22, 2003
you are a poor misguided individual
and yes, I have researched the Korean "revolution"
nothin much there to support your point, if u are trying to make one


I'm a poor misguided individual?

If you researched the "revolution" (and I gather you do not consider it to be a real revolution from your usage of quotations) then tell me why you think Kim Il Sung was not a real revolutionary? Just because his son wasn't in the revolution, does not mean he can't govern the DPRK as a revolutionary. I don't think the DPRK would be around any longer if it was not for Kim Jong Il.

My point is that the DPRK has achieved a lot in terms of Socialism. They carry all the progressive aspects that Cuba has. I don't believe all that hype about Kim Jong Il living in luxury, it's nothing more than slander by bourgeois propagandists.

I am at the Communist Party office 3 days a week or more, and I read the Pyongyang Times. In fact, I have access to publications from just about every Communist Party in the world, along with a huge library containing the works of just about every Communist in the world, and the history of revolutions. I spend hours per day doing reading and research. I host study groups for my organization YL. I have worked with people from the Korean Truth Commission who include respected lawyers; I work with people from Korean Friendship Association, & people From the DPRK.

So please don't call me misguided. Poor is fine, because I'm not rich... but I'm not misguided. Give me more credit than that. You just may not agree with me my position, but I happen to support my Comrades world wide uncluding the DPRK. I have respect for my Comrades who fight a HARSH and DARING struggle against Imperialism on a daily bases. If you don't have the strength and courage to support them, will you be able to take part in your own revolutionary practice?


(Edited by Comrade Marcel at 12:00 am on July 24, 2003)

[Comrade Marcel]

Quote: from elijahcraig on 12:00 am on July 23, 2003[

I have researched it, and Juche.

Do you believe everything the propaganda machine of North Korea tells you? Are you that naive? There are others who know about this, not just the US.

Kim Jung Il was placed and bred for leadership, he's no revolutionary. He lives in luxury while the rest starve. He went to a university which only the elite sons of the communist party leaders go to. That is an example of the elitism in DPRK. Don't be so naive.




Firstly, Kim Jung Il doesn't "live in luxury well the rest starve". From what I have read everyone in the DPRK lives pretty modestly, but evenly; including members of the Party.

Of course, it is important to keep your leader alive, but I know he doesn't drink Don Parigon and eat Felite Minons well everyone else gets rice.

Also, there is no such school that only "Elite sons of communist leaders go to". This was a sladerous attack that I believe was started by the New York Times. It is my understanding that there is no boys or girls only schools at all in the DPRK. It is also my understanding that education is free up to and including University or College for all those who qualify, and not just CP family and members.

I'm not fucking naive, I'm realistic. You believe those extreme slanders that anyone who isn't living in a fucking shell would know are either exaggerated (at the very least) or are outwrite lies.

(Edited by Comrade Marcel at 12:03 am on July 24, 2003)

[Jesus Christ]

there is no getting through to you, you ARE naive
while worrying about propaganda corrupting others, you create propaganda about the DPRK just so you can support them and their actions
they DO live in luxury while their society suffers
they DO go through special education while the regular population settles for what they have
you say that North Korea has made great strides in communism?
NK isnt in the least bit communistic
it is nothing but a hereditary dictatorship
dont even bother responding to this because youre just gonna insist that youre right, when
Kim Il Sung was not a revolutionary, he was just a Soviet trained puppet
without the Russian support, Sung would have NEVER became the leader of NK
youre ignorant of actual facts
and these facts, you call them propaganda
youve just propaganized yourself
post again when you educate yourself
or dont post at all

[Jesus Christ]

Eternal Presidents arent my bag anyway

[elijahcraig]

Well said Primus.

[Cassius Clay]

There are many criticisms of Kim II Sung and his son Kim Jong II. Not one of them has been bought up here.

Kim II Sung was not a 'Russian puppet', he made many good exposures of the USSR in the 1950's and 1960's. Whatever a definition of a 'Revolutionary' is I'm sure Kim II Sung did more than sitting on a computer all day criticisng everything. Now doubtless his role in things is greatly inflated by the DPRK's propaganda, but it's a fact that he set up a resistant movment in the 30's to Japanese Fascism. He also fought with the Red Army against Fascism all the way to Berlin, this was at the rank of a Captain so doubltess he was in the front lines risking his life. I would call those credentials 'Revolutionary' and hardly 'living the life of luxury'.

You criticse Kim Jong II because he is the son of the former leader, you say it's a 'Monarchy'. Yet I dont see anybody saying Bush in America is the same. The FACT is Kim Jong II had been involved in the workers party of Korea since the 1960's. He was also elected after his father died.

Now I'm actually someone who more often criticises both Kims aswell as the DPRK and I'll happilly do it here but please dont buy propaganda and stick to the facts.

[Jesus Christ]

read my post above and let this be the end of this post

[elijahcraig]

Anyone who thinks the DPRK is communism, they are out of touch with reality.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from elijahcraig on 9:56 pm on July 24, 2003
Anyone who thinks the DPRK is communism, they are out of touch with reality.

All of you who criticise the DPRK are ridiculous. None of you have ever provided any evidence to reject the facts about the DPRK. None of you have visited the DPRK or have studied it at all.

Elite school? that only CP members sons go to? Firstly males and females go all schools in the DPRK. Secondly, the school you are referring to is Mangyongdae Revolutionary school and I think you will find many of thje ancestors of the students are dead, and the former students parents are dead since it was a school set up for Martyrs. In addition to this there are many schools similar.

You accuse us of taking in all Korean propaganda? I think you'll find we have observed many more objective opinion as you. All your accusations against the DPRK are ones that they are familiar with. Their propaganda as well as propogating their world view actually does have facts in it that refute the accusations against it.

I have answered all your statements many times before, I think elijahcraig has experienced some of my arguments, so he should not be so dismissive.

'they DO live in luxury while their society suffers'

The CC members certainly live good lifestyles, but what do you expect; they lead the country. Many live reasonable lifestyles. But, yes, many do not, but this is not the fault of socialism but of the situation imposed upon the DPRK.

'Eternal Presidents arent my bag anyway'

How does this end the argument Primus32302? Kim Il Sung propounded the principles of North Korean society. He is eternal president because Juche is the head of state and Kim Il Sung created Juche. Juche must decide the succession of leadership and all decisions taken in the DPRK.

Its a fear though, that Imperialism will defeat it.

Kim Jong Il has written the most important Juche works in the DPRK. Although not as revolutionary as Kim Il Sungs, they developed the theory far more than Kim Il Sung in his lifetime.

'Out of touch with reality'

The DPRK is the reality of communism. If you dislike it, you are not a communist. All your views are bourgeois tainted, why don't you join the imperialists and the bourgeoisie and aid them in their attack on the DPRK.

[elijahcraig]

All of you who criticise the DPRK are ridiculous. None of you have ever provided any evidence to reject the facts about the DPRK. None of you have visited the DPRK or have studied it at all.

Sorry wrong. Primus and I have both posted many things which will show that the DPRK is NOT communist or socialist.

Elite school? that only CP members sons go to? Firstly males and females go all schools in the DPRK. Secondly, the school you are referring to is Mangyongdae Revolutionary school and I think you will find many of thje ancestors of the students are dead, and the former students parents are dead since it was a school set up for Martyrs. In addition to this there are many schools similar.

He graduated from Kim Il-sing University in 1964, after being bred for leadership out of that school for the elite, he was designated official successor to his father. Boy, that is democracy right there. Not to mention he was brought up in a cult of the personality rivaled by maybe Stalin.

You accuse us of taking in all Korean propaganda? I think you'll find we have observed many more objective opinion as you. All your accusations against the DPRK are ones that they are familiar with. Their propaganda as well as propogating their world view actually does have facts in it that refute the accusations against it.

Yeah, taking news straight from the accused destroyed all of our arguments. I think not.

I have answered all your statements many times before, I think elijahcraig has experienced some of my arguments, so he should not be so dismissive.

You are right in most threads, unfortunately I believe you to be wrong in this one.

'they DO live in luxury while their society suffers'

The CC members certainly live good lifestyles, but what do you expect; they lead the country. Many live reasonable lifestyles. But, yes, many do not, but this is not the fault of socialism but of the situation imposed upon the DPRK.

Then shouldn't all live horribily equally? If there is an elite, as you admit there is, that means this is not even socialism, and not even close to a Marxist country.

'Eternal Presidents arent my bag anyway'

How does this end the argument Primus32302? Kim Il Sung propounded the principles of North Korean society. He is eternal president because Juche is the head of state and Kim Il Sung created Juche. Juche must decide the succession of leadership and all decisions taken in the DPRK.

So, that's automatically his son? What a coincidence. That's not democracy, that's state capitalism wearing robes of socialism and democracy.

Its a fear though, that Imperialism will defeat it.

Well, they've done the rest, wouldn't be surprised. Except Cuba my mistake.

Kim Jong Il has written the most important Juche works in the DPRK. Although not as revolutionary as Kim Il Sungs, they developed the theory far more than Kim Il Sung in his lifetime.

Developing useless theory for a starving country which is far from socialist. What a pampered luxurious brat.

'Out of touch with reality'

The DPRK is the reality of communism. If you dislike it, you are not a communist. All your views are bourgeois tainted, why don't you join the imperialists and the bourgeoisie and aid them in their attack on the DPRK.

oooh, the old "bourgeois" argument. Nice try. But that's pathetic. When a country has a class structure where the rulers live in luxury while the majority are starving, that is not communism. Maybe you should go study up on your theories, because if you belive DPRK to be communist, you are obviously out of touch with communism.

What naive people believe a country to be communist just because it claims to be?

[Comrade Marcel]

Firstly, I myself never once called the DPRK a Communist country. I do believe that Juche is a Socialist ideal. I do believe that the people of the DPRK are Communists. However, Communism is something that can only exist when the world has been through Revolution.

I did say I support the DPRK. I believe in the right of Nations to self determination. You may want to read Lenin some time. I believe that the Korean revolution was progressive, & I believe the DPRK can be called Socialist.

I agree that the idesa elijahcraig & primus of what Socialism is are full of bourgeois ideas, and utopian standards which are impossible for a country such as the DPRK to have. If you look at the historic conditions of Korea - infact any idiot should know this - you would know that they have been under & are still under constant threat & had to build from being bombed to the stone age.

Kim Il sung was not only a real revolutionary himself, he also fought fascism & his parents where actively involved in a Korean National Liberation Movement. He grew up around revolutionary practice. He was practically born a Revoltuionary, and I would say the same of his son.

It is completely false to paint a black and white picture of leaders of the DPRK living in complete luxury well the masses live in complete poverty. This is just not true.

Also, your slander of Stalin - whom history is obsolving - shows your counter-revolutionary nature.

If you don't support the DPRK then you are no Comrade. U.S. Imperialism is the enemy - the DPRK are our Comrades. If you can't see that then your just a bourgeois pig.

(Edited by Comrade Marcel at 5:07 am on July 25, 2003)

[elijahcraig]

Firstly, I myself never once called the DPRK a Communist country. I do believe that Juche is a Socialist ideal. I do believe that the people of the DPRK are Communists. However, Communism is something that can only exist when the world has been through Revolution.

I don't agree that DPRK are communist, that the people are. They are elite.

I did say I support the DPRK. I believe in the right of Nations to self determination. You may want to read Lenin some time. I believe that the Korean revolution was progressive, & I believe the DPRK can be called Socialist.

I don't agree it is socialist, but I also never said I support US Imperialism against DPRK. I've read Lenin jackass, stop with the elitist attitude.

I agree that the idesa elijahcraig & primus of what Socialism is are full of bourgeois ideas, and utopian standards which are impossible for a country such as the DPRK to have. If you look at the historic conditions of Korea - infact any idiot should know this - you would know that they have been under & are still under constant threat & had to build from being bombed to the stone age.

I agree. But that does not make them socialist or communist. I support them against the US. We can agree on that. Please stop with the utopianistic rhetoric, it's old news. I am not a utopianist, you seem to be in calling the DPRK socialist.

Kim Il sung was not only a real revolutionary himself, he also fought fascism & his parents where actively involved in a Korean National Liberation Movement. He grew up around revolutionary practice. He was practically born a Revoltuionary, and I would say the same of his son.

I don't agree. His son is a pampered bred elite. Sung was a bit more credible.

It is completely false to paint a black and white picture of leaders of the DPRK living in complete luxury well the masses live in complete poverty. This is just not true.

Yes it is. They are elitists living in higher standards than the people, a direct contradiction of Leninism and Communist theory.

Also, your slander of Stalin - whom history is obsolving - shows your counter-revolutionary nature.

Wow, the old Stalinist hook. State Capitalists are my enemies, sorry. Whom history is obsolving? Where the fuck do you get this stuff? Everyone besides Stalinist Fucks agree that Stalin was a dictator and a madman.

If you don't support the DPRK then you are no Comrade. U.S. Imperialism is the enemy - the DPRK are our Comrades. If you can't see that then your just a bourgeois pig.

Well, I don't support US, and if it came to US vs. DPRK, I would support DPRK. Just because they are anti-imperialist does not make them socialist. Sorry.

Stop with the "bourgeois pig" rhetoric, do cliches ever get old with you stalinists?

[elijahcraig]

http://www.oneparty.co.uk/index.html?http%...l/research.html (http://www.oneparty.co.uk/index.html?http%3A//www.oneparty.co.uk/html/research.html)

There's an article on Juche

[Cassius Clay]

LOL Erm elijahcraig you do realise that those links and articles are written by 'Madfuck Stalinists'? Now actually I would agree with what's written there, but all I see ffrom you is rhectoric.

[Saint-Just]

Yes, this criticism of Juche is from Hoxhaists. Marxist-Leninists who believe only Lenin, Stalin and Hoxha were ever true socialist leaders.

This is precisely the same criticism Cassius Clay would have.

It is my argument against the author of this that these ideas were specific to the nature of Korea. Indeed, no nation is like Korea and that is why there are certain aspects of Juche and the theories of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il that only apply to Korea. Both leaders criticised a dogmatic aspect of Marxism-Leninism that believes the application of M-L to be exactly the same in every nation.

The fact is that the DPRK has inherited many of its traits from Marxism-Leninism. They do still learn from Marx and Lenin in the DPRK, albeit very little. Many of the charactersistics of the Juche Idea can be applied to other countries.

[Cassius Clay]

Comrade CM I dont agree with everything written there. Infact I did post a defence of Kim Jong II in another board which got delted and I also wrote a thread which was very critical of people who think everybody is a 'Concealed Revisionist' at Politics.Forums. As I allready said Kim II Sung made some very good criticisms of the Soviet Union in the 1950's.

Unfournatly it's my opinion that when Kim II Sung said 'Revisionists are those who forget the ideas of Marx and Lenin and try to make themselves out as cleverer than Marx and Lenin' he eventually ended up doing precisly that. But many groups are uniting whehter they were pro-Korean or pro-Albanian, in the end it's a historical dispute more than anything else.

An example, I for one cannot possibly see how one person could uphold the USSR of the 1970's. But if that person supports the USSR because they believed it was still Socialist and loyal to the princeples of Marxist-Leninism then I really don't see there being much of a problem.

Now I dont think the DPRK is a workers state, but I will support them against Imperialism, for Korean unity and will admit that the DPRK did and perhaps still does have many socialist aspects to it. I will also defend both Kims against bourgesie propaganda. At the same time my opinion is that there are many aspects of the DPRK and Juche that deserve harsh criticism.

One point though. Recently the DPRK opened a embassy in the Uk, this embassy is located in a lower-middle class area of Ealing (South London). This place hardly looked like the place of luxury. If the DPRK's elite were living it up then I'm sure they would of got a place in Mayfair and do what all the other embassies do. That is sex, drugs and rock and roll in a million pound worth property.

[JucheStudent]

I have to say that I did not expect to see such contraversy here. I was expecting to see either pure revisionists or people that would be supportive even if they were not true followers of Kim Il Sung and Juche.

All I can say is that of the great Socialist nations, they have undergone one of the following fates:
1. Collapse and betrayal of Marxism Leninism (Russia, Poland, East Germany)
2. Transformation to right wing state capitalism (post-Mao China)
3. Standing tall

Of the third category, there are only two examples that I can think of - the DPRK and Cuba. Not coincidentally, both are nations that have undergone the strongest pressure by US imperialism and both continue to withstand outside pressure.

It is largely to the noble efforts by revolutionaries like Kim Il Sung and Che Guevara that those two nations continue to florish. That is why it is surprising to me that so many people on a forum admiring Che Guevara would be so harsh toward Kim Il Sung. In many ways, the only difference is that Che Guevara left Cuba (ultimately resulting in his death) when the revolution completed and Kim Il Sung chose to stay. Is this why people here don't like Kim Il Sung?

As for Kim Jong Il, it is correct that he has not fought in any guerilla battles or done anything like that, but he simply hasn't had the opportunity to do that without abandoning the Korean people.

[Comrade Marcel]

Quote: from Chairman Mao on 1:36 pm on July 25, 2003
Yes, this criticism of Juche is from Hoxhaists. Marxist-Leninists who believe only Lenin, Stalin and Hoxha were ever true socialist leaders.

I have worked with people from that organization (Alliance M-L) and they are Hoxhaists.

I don't entirely agree with all of their analysis of various countries, i.e. Social-Imperial China or Revisionist DPRK.

[elijahcraig]

LOL Erm elijahcraig you do realise that those links and articles are written by 'Madfuck Stalinists'? Now actually I would agree with what's written there, but all I see ffrom you is rhectoric.

I did, because I figured you'd only take Stalinists as "real communists" and take what was written seriously.

Yes, this criticism of Juche is from Hoxhaists. Marxist-Leninists who believe only Lenin, Stalin and Hoxha were ever true socialist leaders.

Stalin, give me a break.

This is precisely the same criticism Cassius Clay would have.

It is my argument against the author of this that these ideas were specific to the nature of Korea. Indeed, no nation is like Korea and that is why there are certain aspects of Juche and the theories of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il that only apply to Korea. Both leaders criticised a dogmatic aspect of Marxism-Leninism that believes the application of M-L to be exactly the same in every nation.

Stop making excuses for their revisionism Mao.

The fact is that the DPRK has inherited many of its traits from Marxism-Leninism. They do still learn from Marx and Lenin in the DPRK, albeit very little. Many of the charactersistics of the Juche Idea can be applied to other countries.

I agree.

Juchestudente, did you actually put Sung in the same category as Che? That is fucked up.

[JucheStudent]

Quote: from elijahcraig on 9:50 pm on July 25, 2003
Juchestudente, did you actually put Sung in the same category as Che? That is fucked up.


Why do you say this? I see them as very similar people. Both turned down comfortable lives in order to fight a revolution. Both sought to industrialize their countries and both fought imperialist forces and wrote about the glories of revolution. And both were very willing to fight counter revolutionary forces.

I see the major difference between them as being Che's desire to stay with the revolution; when the Cuban revolution was complete, he resigned his position in Cuba to help revolutionaries elsewhere, and Kim chose not to do this out of his love for the Korean people.

I do say that I see the romanticism in Che's willingness to "stay with the revolution" and I believe that is a large part of his appeal. But surely that is not why you say it is "fucked up".

[elijahcraig]

Why do you say this? I see them as very similar people. Both turned down comfortable lives in order to fight a revolution. Both sought to industrialize their countries and both fought imperialist forces and wrote about the glories of revolution. And both were very willing to fight counter revolutionary forces.

Sung is a satellite pawn of the USSR, not his own "revolutionary". Sorry. Che was.

I see the major difference between them as being Che's desire to stay with the revolution; when the Cuban revolution was complete, he resigned his position in Cuba to help revolutionaries elsewhere, and Kim chose not to do this out of his love for the Korean people.

"out of his love for the Korean people." Now let's all bow down the the cult of the personality we just created. Don't give me that bullshit. He stayed because he was...ruler! Stop the naive posts.

I do say that I see the romanticism in Che's willingness to "stay with the revolution" and I believe that is a large part of his appeal. But surely that is not why you say it is "fucked up".

I think of Che as pure, as a real revolutionary. Not a cold war pawn. Sorry.

[Severian]

Quote: from elijahcraig on 11:31 pm on July 27, 2003
Sung is a satellite pawn of the USSR, not his own "revolutionary". Sorry. Che was.

It's silly to portray Kim Il Sung as simply a Soviet pawn throughout his life.

He was Stalin's choice for leader of Korea immediately post-WWII, true enough. Even over other Korean pro-Moscow "Communists". The Workers Party of Korea was founded 'cause other Korean "Communist" groups were seen as insufficiently controlled.

Kim had been in the USSR for a few years - after the Japanese drove his partisan group out of Korea - and was seen as reliable and controllable. But one could say similar things about Mao, or Tito, or Ho Chi Minh, at comparable points in their own careers. I hope the foolishness of calling, say, Mao a "satellite pawn of the USSR" does not have to be pointed out.

Kim Il Sung was a Korean nationalist. Silly to deny that.

But it's precisely the issue of nationalism which highlights the 180-degree difference between Kim and Che, between juche and communism. Che, rather than preaching "self-sufficiency", correctly recognized that the Cuban revolution could only survive in the long run, let alone advance toward a classless society, if there were revolutions in other countries.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I was reading in International Socialist Review and they had pretty good article a few issues back on North Korea. The author places some of the blame for the poverty and desperation on Kim Il Sung (I do not remember exactly if the idea was part of Juche).

The author believes that the elder Kim put too much merit in Stalin's "socialism in one country" concept. The elder Kim tried to make the North self-reliant, even from the USSR and China. Because of this, North Korea has attempted to grow its own food. The author of the article said (I do not know exactly--I am not expert on Korea) that the north is absolutely NOT suited for agriculture. To grow food, then, requires large amounts of chemical fertilizer. These fertilizers are produced in an electricity-intensive manner which hurts the electricity-dependant and -deprived nation greatly.

By comparison, South Korea has great agricultural lands. If Korea was unified, the South could likely grow enough food for the entire peninsula.

[Saint-Just]

You are right. The North is so mountaineous, under forest and has such poor soil quality that it is difficult to cultivate crops in the North. They do however have the right terrain to produce plenty of hydroelectric power. Before the divide they produced power in the North and grew crops in the South.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Another good argument for the reunification of the Korean peninsula, eh?

But then again, if they were able to be self-sufficient, that would not advance any imperialist causes, would it?

[Saint-Just]

Yes, but I don't understand what you mean by 'But then again, if they were able to be self-sufficient, that would not advance any imperialist causes, would it?'

They are self-sufficient at the moment. Do you mean that reunifying would bring imperialism to the North. I think that is right whether that was your point or not. Its far better that they reunify anyway even if that is the cost.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 1 2003, 08:10 PM
Yes, but I don't understand what you mean by 'But then again, if they were able to be self-sufficient, that would not advance any imperialist causes, would it?'

They are self-sufficient at the moment. Do you mean that reunifying would bring imperialism to the North. I think that is right whether that was your point or not. Its far better that they reunify anyway even if that is the cost.
On your question in the first paragraph, I was being sarcastic.

As to the question of reunification, I was thinking of a hopefully not-too-distant future where Korea can be unified under socialism. I do not expect anything like that will happen soon, but that is my long-term desire for the peninsula.

The Korean people could grow their food in the South, and do more in the way of industry in the North, as was done previously. Was that not the arrangement under Japanese occupation? Not that I want any foreign power to recolonize, but that division of labor seems to be fruitful.

[Severian]

I wouldn't necessarily put reunification off to the indefinite future. It's a very popular idea in Korea, to the point where both Korean governments have a stated position in support of a negotiated reunification.

Heck, it wasn't Koreans who had the idea of dividing their country.

[Saint-Just]

The main barrier to reunification is the American influence. Ths symbol of this influence being the American troops in the South.

Yes it is a popular idea, but no one can tell what will happen since the U.S. is so unlikely to simply leave.

[FAB]

In Germany we had supporters of the Juche-Ideoligie, the "Communist Party of Germany [The Red Flag]" http://www.k-p-d,de (but it's allin german). They have very good contacts to the regime in north korea and there kadres often take a trip to north korea.

[Hampton]

Translated version of site (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.k-p-d.de/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.k-p-d.de/%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3Dutf-8)

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Comrade Severian,
I have no doubt that reunification is popular in Korea. I was talking about the indefinite future when I talked of Korea as a united and SOCIALIST nation (or hopefully, post-nation--the revolution transcends national borders, no?). If you were not referring to my post, you can kindly disregard this post.