The Armenian Genocide

[Rhyknow]

Why is it that the Turkish government blatantly deny that the Armenian Massacre ever happened? Even though they are opposed by overwhelming evidence to suggest otherwise. Here is a brief history of the events leading up to the genocide:

Enver Pasha partly blamed the Armenians for his defeat by Russia at the battle of Sarikamis. He ordered that all Armenian recruits in the Ottoman army were to be disarmed and placed in labor camps. The majority of Armenians were executed or turned into road laborers.

May 25-1915 Talat Pasha ordered the evacuation of hundreds of thousands of Armenians from Anatolia to Mesopotamia (Syria). The Ottoman government also did not give any needed supplys to the evacuees and prohibited the Armenian refugees to take supplies of their own. The Ottoman soldiers escorting the Armenian refugees turned a blind eye, as the refugees were murdered, robbed and raped.

It is beleived that around 25 concentration camps existed under the command of Sukru Kaya, the right hand of Talat Pasha.

In early 1916, the Armenian community living in Edessa revolted and took control of the old city. Ottoman forces attacked the city and bombed it, but the Armenians kept control of the city. Baron Von Der Goltz negotiated a settlement with the Armenians, however broke the terms and deported the Armenians.


While there was an official 'special organization' founded in December 1911 by the Ottoman government, a second organization that participated in what led to the destruction of the Ottoman Armenian community was founded by the lttihad ve Terraki. This organization technically appeared in July 1914 and was supposed to differ from the one already existing in one important point; mostly according to the military court, it was meant to be a "government in a government" (needing no orders to act).

Later in 1914, the Ottoman government decided to influence the direction the special organization was to take by releasing criminals from central prisons to be the central elements of this newly formed special organization. According to the Mazhar commissions attached to the tribunal as soon as November 1914, 124 criminals were released from Pimian prison. Many other releases followed; in Ankara a few months later, 49 criminals were released from its central prison. Little by little from the end of 1914 to the beginning of 1915, hundreds, then thousands of prisoners were freed to form the members of this organization. Later, they were charged to escort the convoys of Armenian deportees. Vehib, commander of the Ottoman third army, called those members of the special organization, the “butchers of the human species.”

The organization was led by the Central Committee Members Doctor Nazim, Behaeddin Sakir, Atif Riza, and former Director of Public Security Aziz Bey. The headquarters of Behaeddin Sakir were in Erzurum, from where he directed the forces of the Eastern vilayets. Aziz, Atif and Nazim Beys operated in Istanbul, and their decisions were approved and implemented by Cevat Bey, the Military Governor of Istanbul.

According to the commissions and other records, the criminals were chosen by a process of selection. They had to be ruthless butchers to be selected as a member of the special organization. The Mazhar commission, during the military court, has provided some lists of those criminals. In one instance, of 65 criminals released, 50 were in prison for murder. Such a disproportionate ratio between those condemned for murder; and others imprisoned for minor crimes is reported to have been generalized. This selection process of criminals was, according to some researchers in the field of comparative genocide studies, who specialize in the Armenian cases, clearly indicative of the government's intention to commit mass murder of its Armenian population.

So what is the Turkish government's stance on this? They do not accept the deaths of Armenians during the evacuation or deportation (which they call "relocation") are a consequence of the Ottoman government. Indeed the genocide is very similar to the nazi holocaust, and indeed, many people have strifed to make others recognize that the Armenian Genocide DID happen... one of the best known is the band System of a Down with their song P.L.U.C.K (Politically lying, unholy, coward killers). Here are the lyrics.


P.L.U.C.K

Elimination, Elimination, Elimination

Die, Why, Walk Down, Walk Down

A whole race Genocide,
Taken away all of our pride,
A whole race Genocide,
Taken away, watch them all fall down.

Revolution, the only solution,
The armed response of an entire nation,
Revolution, the only solution,
We've taken all your shit, now it's time for restitution.

Recognition, Restoration, Reparation,
Recognition, Restoration, Reparation,
Watch them all fall down.

Revolution, the only solution,
The armed response of an entire nation,
Revolution, the only solution,
We've taken all your shit, now it's time for restitution.

The plan was mastered and called Genocide (Never want to see you around)
Took all the children and then we died, (Never want to see you around)
The few that remained were never found, (Never want to see you around)
All in a system of Down......Down.....Down.......Down........Walk Down...........


Personally, i think that the denial is disgusting... The german government have long since acknowledged (and apologized) for the holocaust... So shouldn't the Turkish government have the balls to do the same?

Sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide)

[RedAnarchist]

Nationalistic pride, I suppose. Why hasn't America apologised to the Native Americans? Why hasn't Australia apologised to the Aborigines? Why hasn't Britain apologised to the Africans?

[Rhyknow]

Good point... Indeed, ANY nation who commits a genocide ought to be punished accordingly

[Leo]

The real reason is, rather than national pride, pragmatic of course. Admitting the genocide would damage Turkish state's esteem, and it would have enonomic consequences. However, the state enforces the population to reject the genocide by playing the national pride card, and you can see it everywhere, in ever fucking school book, in every fucking newspaper, in every fucking tv channel etc. There are even people who deeply admire the man who carried out the genocide, it's disgusting :angry:

[Leo]

Indeed, ANY nation who commits a genocide ought to be punished accordingly

Yet, when you talk about punishing a nation, you get almost as bad as the people who committed the genocide. After all, time passes by, the people responsible for the genocide are also long dead, the nation you hope to punish consists of workers and capitalists and they are not responsible. Hatred and punishment, nationalist anger etc. is not the answer, ever, and it is against everything about class struggle. The problem with the Armenian Genocide, or any other genocide as a matter of fact, it that human geings were killed. The fact that those human beings were armenians is mostly irrelevant. To have a class based perspective, you must prefer classes to nations.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Leo+--> (Leo)There are even people who deeply admire the man who carried out the genocide, it's disgusting[/b]

Leo, why did you add a 'shifty' smiley at the end of that sentence?

It makes your comment look somewhat disingenuous... though i doubt this is your intention.



Originally posted by [email protected]
The problem with the Armenian Genocide, or any other genocide as a matter of fact, it that human geings were killed. The fact that those human beings were armenians is mostly irrelevant. To have a class based perspective, you must prefer classes to nations.

Whilst i agree me must maintain a class perspective generally, class is really irrelevant to this discussion (at least in the sense you are suggesting). An admission of guilt, and eparations for genocide are important steps in not only de-legitimising national pride, but providing compensation for a criminal history.



Leo
I wanted to show that I was disguested, shifty seemed to be the closest one.

:angry:

?

[Leo]

Leo, why did you add a 'shifty' smiley at the end of that sentence?

It makes your comment look somewhat disingenuous... though i doubt this is your intention.

I wanted to show that I was disguested, shifty seemed to be the closest one.

[Rhyknow]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 25 2006, 03:13 PM
The real reason is, rather than national pride, pragmatic of course. Admitting the genocide would damage Turkish state&#39;s esteem, and it would have enonomic consequences. However, the state enforces the population to reject the genocide by playing the national pride card, and you can see it everywhere, in ever fucking school book, in every fucking newspaper, in every fucking tv channel etc. There are even people who deeply admire the man who carried out the genocide, it&#39;s disgusting <_<
Indeed it is disgusting...

Indeed, you are correct, for to me, a nation&#39;s border&#39;s are irrelevant; since we are all humans... It&#39;s just for the purpose of distinguishing the community...

Thanks for your input

[Rollo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 11:50 PM
Nationalistic pride, I suppose. Why hasn&#39;t America apologised to the Native Americans? Why hasn&#39;t Australia apologised to the Aborigines? Why hasn&#39;t Britain apologised to the Africans?
Haven&#39;t you herd of the "sorry day" it&#39;s a day where everybody is sorry about the aborigines apparently, just another way to make money IMO.

[Leo]

:angry:

?

Eh, ok. *Edits his post*


Whilst i agree me must maintain a class perspective generally, class is really irrelevant to this discussion (at least in the sense you are suggesting)

Class is always relevant. After all, people who ordered every genocide in human history were the ruling classes.


An admission of guilt, and eparations for genocide are important steps in not only de-legitimising national pride, but providing compensation for a criminal history.

Well, I was actually talking about punishment.

My point is that nationality is not important, a Turkish worker who has a sensitivity about the genocide, who accepts that it happened and who thinks it was horrible shouldn&#39;t be ashamed or shouldn&#39;t feel guilty just because he is ethnically Turkish (but of course, he shouldn&#39;t forgive his ruling class). After all it was the ruling class who carried out the genocide, and they should be punished, among with every other ruling class in the world.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Rollo+Aug 26 2006, 01:24 AM--> (Rollo &#064; Aug 26 2006, 01:24 AM)
Originally posted by ThisAnarchistKillsNazis+Aug 25 2006, 11:50 PM--> (ThisAnarchistKillsNazis &#064; Aug 25 2006, 11:50 PM) Nationalistic pride, I suppose. Why hasn&#39;t America apologised to the Native Americans? Why hasn&#39;t Australia apologised to the Aborigines? Why hasn&#39;t Britain apologised to the Africans? [/b]
Haven&#39;t you herd of the "sorry day" it&#39;s a day where everybody is sorry about the aborigines apparently, just another way to make money IMO. [/b]
Sorry Day doesn&#39;t exist anymore.

The government re-named it the &#39;National Day of Healing&#39;, i dun think John Howard is too fond of the word &#39;sorry&#39;.



Originally posted by Leo
Class is always relevant. After all, people who ordered every genocide in human history were the ruling classes.


No doubt they had help from WC turks as well.


[email protected]
My point is that nationality is not important, a Turkish worker who has a sensitivity about the genocide, who accepts that it happened and who thinks it was horrible shouldn&#39;t be ashamed or shouldn&#39;t feel guilty just because he is ethnically Turkish

No, but being open about the history of genocide is a useful anti-nationalist tool, it undermines the legitimacy of &#39;the nations foundations.


Leo

After all it was the ruling class who carried out the genocide, and they should be punished, among with every other ruling class in the world.

I don&#39;t think you should shift the blame entirely on the ruling class, it may have been directed by the ruling class, they were not the sole participants.

[Rollo]

Oh, I tend to avoid those days simply because they suck. Howard is a major asshole.

By suck I mean they are pointless, if they were really sorry they would give the land back.

[Leo]

No, but being open about the history of genocide is a useful anti-nationalist tool, it undermines the legitimacy of &#39;the nations foundations.

:D Absolutely


No doubt they had help from WC turks as well.


I don&#39;t think you should shift the blame entirely on the ruling class, it may have been directed by the ruling class, they were not the sole participants.

Every tyrant has some poor people doing the dirty jobs for him, I&#39;m sure the ruling class wasn&#39;t the only participants, but only they were responsible. Disobeying orders ment death in that time (it still has pretty nasty consequences today :angry: ), they had no other choice other than doing what they were told to do. After all would you blame the hangman for an excecution or would you blame the person who actually ordered it?

[вор в законе]

Revolution, the only solution,
The armed response of an entire nation,
Revolution, the only solution,
We&#39;ve taken all your shit, now it&#39;s time for restitution.


I love that part.

[Phalanx]

LU, is there a law in Turkey that forbids speaking out against the Turkish state? I&#39;ve heard several authors threatened with jail or jailed over the issue.

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4637886.stm)

[heps]

Hey everyone, I&#39;m new of this forum. I just saw this topic. And I wanna say something. At first I&#39;m a Turkish, I&#39;m not a racist also I&#39;m not a facsist.

I read a lot of book and archives about this thread. At at historiographer writer&#39;s book :

American President and his Asistant talking ;

- Armenians still waiting our support. Also English President wanted it too.
- We opened our archives. How can we help them, how can we change history. But we can wait more. Like everytime we&#39;ll win at agreement.

I read archives, it says;

"Armenians burned a lot of villages at Anatolia. Entente countries supporting them. They&#39;re like barbarians."

and another one,

"A Turkish commander be bad against Armenians. Sultan sing him and kicked out from military."

and another one,

"Turkish villagers want revenge."

You can deny archives. So you cant believe any Historical document.


I think Armenians just being tool for imperialist states. I can not accuse them, coz they&#39;re borning then learning to that seh "genocide". AND TURKIYE DOING NOTHING TO CHANGE THINGS.

So final of the story 2 hater nation being like imperilist&#39;s want. Two of them cant listen two of them can&#39;t talk. We have a lot Armenian friends at Turkiye. I like to talk with them also they&#39;re too. But at global looks = Turkish ppl still wanna kill them, Armenian ppl hates them.

At final; its from a prof&#39;s research.

If you kill a Turkish&#39;s friend, he can forget it.
If you kill a Turkish&#39;s child, he&#39;ll forget a bit harder. But he&#39;ll.
If you kill a Turkish&#39;s soldier, he&#39;ll forget it too. But again harder..
If you take land from Turkish ppl, they won&#39;t forget it never. So they&#39;ll try to get revenge back.

well being..

[Jamal]

Man, thats no excuse&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
you are reading turkish archives, ofcourse they are modified to make you think that the genocide was excusable. But infact, it can never be.
The turkish soldiers killed over a million armenian. You cannot possibly see that there is nothing wrong there.


Leo, you are totaly right that the turkish that made the genocide are alldead and rotten by now and if a punishment happens to the turkish people, I would strongly oppose it because it will only happen to people who&#39;s only crime is being born in a turkish nationality, that very stupid if anyone even thinks that a punishment should be done. But it is totaly true that there should be an apology.

It should be done on a national level, to make things right and to make uncultured people stop living in a sea of lies.

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 01:38 PM
LU, is there a law in Turkey that forbids speaking out against the Turkish state? I&#39;ve heard several authors threatened with jail or jailed over the issue.

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4637886.stm)
Actually, just a couple of years ago a Kurdish kid who was like 10 or something refused to recite the Turkish pledge of allegiance in school because it includes a line something to the effect "I am proud to be a Turk." The school expelled him, and from what I understand he was later charged criminally. If I&#39;m not mistaken, an article on the subject was post in this forum, I&#39;m just too lazy to dig it up.

[Leo]

LU, is there a law in Turkey that forbids speaking out against the Turkish state? I&#39;ve heard several authors threatened with jail or jailed over the issue.

Yep, nowdays it is covered under article 301 of the new penal code, which concerns &#39;insulting Turkishness and the Turkish nation.

Oh by the way, call me Leo please :)


Actually, just a couple of years ago a Kurdish kid who was like 10 or something refused to recite the Turkish pledge of allegiance in school because it includes a line something to the effect "I am proud to be a Turk." The school expelled him, and from what I understand he was later charged criminally. If I&#39;m not mistaken, an article on the subject was post in this forum, I&#39;m just too lazy to dig it up.

Those things are pretty common actually, of course there is a great amount of kurdish nationalism involved, but still.


I read archives, it says;

"Armenians burned a lot of villages at Anatolia. Entente countries supporting them. They&#39;re like barbarians."

and another one,

"A Turkish commander be bad against Armenians. Sultan sing him and kicked out from military."

and another one,

"Turkish villagers want revenge."

You can deny archives. So you cant believe any Historical document.


Turkish archives says that about thirty thousands Turks were killed. Turkish archives are highly doubtful because the Turkish government has a tradition of re-writing history. Even if this is true, it is no match for the two million Armenians murdered.


If you kill a Turkish&#39;s friend, he can forget it.
If you kill a Turkish&#39;s child, he&#39;ll forget a bit harder. But he&#39;ll.
If you kill a Turkish&#39;s soldier, he&#39;ll forget it too. But again harder..
If you take land from Turkish ppl, they won&#39;t forget it never. So they&#39;ll try to get revenge back.

:blink: Is this some sort of an excuse or does it show the amounts of ultra-nationalism in the Turkish society?

[heps]

yay&#33; I cant understand what are you doing here ? You&#39;re just thinking for what did you read on news papers or what did you watch in stupidity machine&#33; And you&#39;re saying "hi I&#39;m leftish. Do not use it for to be cool.

Please learn more history. Ottoman Empire&#39;s archive is untouchable for Sultans or his assistants. Just for historiographer can write them. Its not like bible to change with 4 ppl.

Wtf I can&#39;t understand your claims. Ppl saying 1 or 2 million ppl. Isn&#39;t 1m ppl too much ? so how can you say that 1 or 2 million ppl. 1million or 2 million? You&#39;re just believing their guides for you. So I&#39;m starting to think that again, you&#39;re just saying I&#39;m leftish to be cool. If you claim ppl and you&#39;ll just say to pretensions; no its lie, you wont be leftlish. As I noticed you have to learn more about Turkish and Armenian history. If you just know one side&#39;s history, you wont be objective for anything.

Think 2 ppl, they lived together around 300 years BUT WAIT, a morning Turks are woke up and remembered that " AH HOW COULD BE I FORGOT TO KILL ARMENIANS&#33; ". So we started to kill them.

Another point, while they were living at our land; we started to "genocide". And however we just killed 1m ppl&#33; HOW BELIEVABLE&#33;

I can hear you, you&#39;ll say "then what are those photograps?&#33;" they&#39;re all fake(well at least %90). if you follow to WORLD media you can hear it too. but as I said anybody can not be objective who interest about this thread. is it about you&#39;re an Armenian ? I think no. its just a mistake of subconscious.

I noticed at my last post, you&#39;re seeing something about this "genocide" since you born.

And about Enver Pasha, if you really made a research you can see at Turkish history; he&#39;s a traitor. We lost more than ninety thousand SOLDIER for nothing. He moved them to RUSSIA with summer clothes. If you know I&#39;m talking about 1914. So 90k soldiers died before see enemy. Also he started to first world war for Ottoman Empire. After those things he escaped from Anatolia.

Guys there&#39;s too many politic games. A few years ago, I woke up and a lot of ppl wants to show him as a HERO. But any Turk didnt believe it. So they left with "Izmir Marsi" :) (sry Turkish private joke but there&#39;s no Turk ^_^)

Whatever I talked too much again. Just I wanna this from you. Think after read something, I didnt register here to do missionary. I just wanna share what I know about those things. We cant change history.

Well Being..

[Rhyknow]

I don&#39;t get this... Who is this directed at exactly?

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 11:36 PM
Think 2 ppl, they lived together around 300 years BUT WAIT, a morning Turks are woke up and remembered that " AH HOW COULD BE I FORGOT TO KILL ARMENIANS&#33; ". So we started to kill them.

Another point, while they were living at our land; we started to "genocide". And however we just killed 1m ppl&#33; HOW BELIEVABLE&#33;

I can hear you, you&#39;ll say "then what are those photograps?&#33;" they&#39;re all fake(well at least %90). if you follow to WORLD media you can hear it too. but as I said anybody can not be objective who interest about this thread. is it about you&#39;re an Armenian ? I think no. its just a mistake of subconscious.
Denial of the Armenian genocide is a bad route to take, especially on this site.

Jews were living side by side their gentile friends for hundreds of years in Europe as well, but that didn&#39;t stop the Nazis from committing the Holocaust.

[heps]

Well, I heard a lot of times from A LOT OF Armenian that "there&#39;s no genocide". Also a rich woman said (Armenian one in Turkiye and it been a while) "I lived at those times.. And there was no genocide."

[Taevus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 07:42 AM
Well, I heard a lot of times from A LOT OF Armenian that "there&#39;s no genocide". Also a rich woman said (Armenian one in Turkiye and it been a while) "I lived at those times.. And there was no genocide."
You come across as a nationalistic, naive, brainwashed child. I mean, honestly..."i heard A LOT OF Armenian that &#39;there&#39;s no genocide&#39;". Yeah, when we&#39;ve already found out that speaking against the Turkish government can result in your sudden disappearance, and you ultra-nationalist, proud of your country and following it&#39;s beliefs, are they really going to say to YOU if they believe that the genocide happened? Of course not.
Furthermore, it&#39;s just stupid. There is so much evidence that proves the genocide happened, yet you&#39;re prepared to take the word of a rich woman over this? Please, move elsewhere, I feel my intelligence being tainted.

[вор в законе]

I love it how he used the &#39;rich woman&#39; argument on this site. :lol:

Will someone restrict this guy?

[Jamal]

Think 2 ppl, they lived together around 300 years BUT WAIT, a morning Turks are woke up and remembered that " AH HOW COULD BE I FORGOT TO KILL ARMENIANS&#33; ". So we started to kill them.

Thats the only thing that made sense in all your arguement&#33;&#33;&#33; So what about it then, WHY did the Turks kill millions of Armenians? :unsure:


We cant change history.

What were you born yesterday?


Please, move elsewhere, I feel my intelligence being tainted.

I second that&#33;&#33;&#33;



Will someone restrict this guy?

No man, ristricting people because you don&#39;t agree with them is not what debating is for.

[Rhyknow]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 07:42 AM
Well, I heard a lot of times from A LOT OF Armenian that "there&#39;s no genocide". Also a rich woman said (Armenian one in Turkiye and it been a while) "I lived at those times.. And there was no genocide."
What you have heard, is a lot different from what&#39;s true. I could say "Hey, i can fly&#33;" but it wouldn&#39;t make it fact now would it? Not when there&#39;s overwhelming evidence to say otherwise

[Labor Shall Rule]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 07:42 AM
Well, I heard a lot of times from A LOT OF Armenian that "there&#39;s no genocide". Also a rich woman said (Armenian one in Turkiye and it been a while) "I lived at those times.. And there was no genocide."
The Armenian Genocide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide#The_situation_of_the_Armenians_i n_Anatolia)

Well, that&#39;s not what wikipedia saids :rolleyes:

[вор в законе]

No man, ristricting people because you don&#39;t agree with them is not what debating is for.

I don&#39;t have any problem to debate with people who hold a different opinion. The thing is that this section is only for communists and anarchists not nationalists/capitalists etc

[heps]

I cant get the point wth are you talking about. I&#39;m showing you archives but you arent believing, but you&#39;re showing me books and something like those things; and you&#39;re believing them. Its just rofl.

So I thought this forum different from other "Politic Party" forums. But its not, Americans still saying we didnt destroy twin tower. And they made a lot of proof to claim Usame Bin Laden. So are you believing it ? Maybe you dont know but I watched a documentary about that "tragedia". Its name something like "Loose Change". White house cant deny that, but they&#39;re still attacking to Afghanistan.

Or a lot of things like that. Btw I told that "rich woman" to get interest. Coz she was famous one, you can find from encyclopaedia.

Well about me, I cant understand that what did I do to be nationalist. I just told what I know. If my country is rightful so I&#39;ll talk on it side, if not I wont. I think the thing is that communists are thinking justice, not blinded.

Another point, when did you see UN wants justice ? Didnt they work for their avails till now ? They supporting Armenians for justice ? Dont make me laugh, its really funny ._. You&#39;re thinking their side as you said those "capitalists"s one.

Well Being

[Janus]

I&#39;m showing you archives but you arent believing
Right, Turkish archives which most likely has a warped viewpoint.


but you&#39;re showing me books and something like those things; and you&#39;re believing them
We&#39;re not believing them just because they&#39;re books but we are placing more confidence on them because they are more independent sources.

[Reuben]

why the fuck was this moved to HISTORY&#33;

This is about the contemporary political issue of Turkey denying the genocide rather than simply being about the genocide itself.

For fucks sake.

Reuben

[Labor Shall Rule]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 12:08 AM
why the fuck was this moved to HISTORY&#33;

This is about the contemporary political issue of Turkey denying the genocide rather than simply being about the genocide itself.

For fucks sake.

Reuben
The genocide never occured. Leading American lawmakers and Turkish bureaucrats have said that it was a "ethnic conflict" :huh: [?].

[Janus]

why the fuck was this moved to HISTORY&#33;

This is about the contemporary political issue of Turkey denying the genocide rather than simply being about the genocide itself.
The discussion has not moved on to the point where the members are debating whether the genocide took place or not.

[wad1224]

I agree with you and think that they should publicly recognize the genocide. That is the least thay can do for the Armenian people. This also goes out to any country or regime that is and has commited genocide. It is not only a crime against that ethnic group, but a crime against humanity. Cultural diversity is in my opinion one of the most beautiful aspects of the human race, and to try and conform the entire world under one ideology or one "race" would be catastrophic to the human experience.

[heps]

I heard you&#39;re interesting so much with genocides. So who heard ANYTHING about Azeri genocide ? There&#39;s a video about it. I think a nationalist guy made it. A lot of flags bla bla. You can focus just to topic.

Why didnt you hear anything ? Because they aren&#39;t Christian ? Media cant show them ? How many years Europe ignored A.S.A.L.A ? And why didnt they helped Azeries, like they&#39;re helping Armenians ?

I hope you&#39;ll enjoy..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RfFSLwZ54

Well Being.

[Leo]

I think this is the one you are talking about:

http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.ns...7f?Opendocument (http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/0/7c3561e40d2d3d07c1256bae00447b7f?Opendocument)


Originally posted by Wikipedia
The official death toll provided by Azerbaijani authorities is 613 civilians, of them 106 women and 83 children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_Massacre

And for the Armenian Genocide:

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/pashas.html

About 600,000-1,500,000 Armenians were killed.

[heps]

About 600,000-1,500,000 Armenians were killed.

Nice joke, while we doing "genocide" ; 1.2m Armenians living at Anatolia. There are too many changeable numbers. Someone said 2m rofl.


The official death

Azerbaijani not a metropolis..

[Leo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Armenian_population


Originally posted by Wikipedia
Most estimates range from 1.5 million to 2.5 million.

[Casualty]

QUOTE (Wikipedia)
The official death toll provided by Azerbaijani authorities is 613 civilians, of them 106 women and 83 children.


WTF is wikipedia?ROFL&#33;&#33;??wikipedia is full of bullshits.Armenains killed 600 in 1 day.don t become such an idiot.


heps, i can understand u.i know that nobody cares Armenians who are dead a long time ago now.This is just a part of political game.and here or all over the world everybody knows that.

Turkey is such a beautiful country just in the middle of Europe and Asia.so it also has a great strategic importance.so u don t have to excuse from anyone just because your country has a great importance and beauty.

and this Armenian Genocide thing is just bullshit.u know what these things are all about.just try to have some common sense about the situation.

[Leo]

WTF is wikipedia?ROFL&#33;&#33;??wikipedia is full of bullshits.Armenains killed 600 in 1 day.don t become such an idiot.

http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.ns...7f?Opendocument

Try reading, if you are able to.

[Casualty]

so tell me what s your target that u want to reach, what s your aim here?u want to be a part of this political game which people play on Turkey?

ok be a part of it.but before being a player just know that, this is not about the Armenians.

have fun while flaming Turkey because neither Turkey nor me care the things people write without common sense.

[Taevus]

If you aren&#39;t choosing to open your eyes, that&#39;s your narrow-mindedness and lack of common sense and logic. If you don&#39;t care then, please do leave. You&#39;re boring, you talk nonesense, and refuse to give any answer or response to the huge amounts of more-reliable sources than yours, except in useless mockery.

[вор в законе]

The Armenian Genocide is an undisputable fact and there is nothing to debate about.

The deniers should be restricted immediately.

[heps]

undisputable

Yea nice idea&#33; Do not think feel better&#33;

[LoE]

nationalist freedom-hoper pro-westist (and pro-capitalist) Armenian minority of ottoman empire was given more rights then I have today in my damn one-nation-state in 1860s . armenians= christian, armenians= minority; otts= muslim, otts= majority, otts= owner thracia and so the way to Russia.

if I were an English leader in 1800s I&#39;d give whatever I can to all minorities of otts to make them rebel (And they didi and it worked like a clock work)

if I were the Czar in 1915-1917 I&#39;d support Armeanians to rebel against Turks and kill their elders and kids behind-the battle line so that Russian army can conquer this "sick old man&#39;s" land

if I were an Armenian in 1915-1921 I would kill Turks as much as I can thanx to English capitalists and Russian Czar

if I was a Young Turk leader in 1916 and see my soldiers are hurt from back I would move Armenians to Syria (just like they did)

and if Armenains are dead on the way to Syria then that&#39;s their problem I didin&#39;T tell &#39;em to kill my elders and children? what would you do if you were a Young Turk leader in 1916? let these Armenians to kill your population and let the Czar to invade Anatolia?

let me tell ya what would be if the young turks wouldn&#39;t move those armenians

1) Turkey is invaded by Czar before 1916
2) English and French army moves supplies from mediterrenan to Black sea,
3) when Lenin rebelled Englishes would bethere directly from Ukraine (not from west caspean) and we were not be talkin&#39; hear about communiasm &#39;cuz it would never born

do you believe Turks were so stupid to let Czar invade anatolia ? everyone who makes things with logic would move armenians from Anatolia to Syria

and if I were a Armenean now in 2006 I would surely insist on this issue because this would even bring you a land from turkey just like you &#39;ve invaded from Azarbeijan

and I&#39;m a Turk in 2006 and my favorite music group is SoaD (my favorite song is Science) , I believe that 1,500,000 Armenians dead in 1915-1921 but I say this is pointless? what about it then Vikings killed half of englishes on England in 1200 and does any english want to invade Denmark for that couse? that has nothing to do with Turkey. Young Turks were traitors to motherland and we should be out of WW1. I hate the "genociders" as much as every Armenian do but that doesn&#39;t make me hate myself right? I did not kill anyone and I&#39;m not responsible of who my father killed I don&#39;t choose my father, right?

ah if you&#39;ll ask me what will be in future Turkey will accept the genocide but it will declare taht it was not against the humanrights because there was not any &#33; so no turk nor armenian will gain or lose anything from this issue but our times that we are here talkin&#39;

we lived with Armenians from 1071 to 1915 (or 1918) so what the big deal is? were otts evil ? were they fascists ? hell no they did the right thing according to national profits and if they would do the thing you call "right (not to kill people) there would be no USSR at all do you think this is more "right?"

[вор в законе]

What are you talking about. Nobody is accusing the ordinary Turkish citizen for anything, from which many infact gave shelter to the armenians and the rest of the minorities. This is about the Turkish State and to be more accurate the rulling class.



everyone who makes things with logic would move armenians from Anatolia to Syria

I am apparently insane then.

[LoE]

:mellow: :D cool :lol:

[Xiao Banfa]

stupidity machine&#33;

What is this merry contraption?

[heps]

Television =b