Cuba

[Flatline]

i know that people are always on about cuba
but i heard that when Fidel dies that communisum will go with him
because all the people in cuba now know whats out there
and they will revolt
i have seen the figures about cuba and how much the current admisration has done for it
i just wont to know if any one else has heard of this
??

[RedAnarchist]

When Castro does die, expect the American government of the day to be very interested in denouncing him as much as possible and maybe even helping capitalist would-be rulers in Cuba gain power. I think Castro has got a couple of years left in him, though.

[Red Rebel]

because all the people in cuba now know whats out there
and they will revolt

The Americans who are trying to make the tansition to "a more democratic Cuba" have been constantly wrong. They said the people would revolt when Fidel steped down from power. Yet according to multiple media sources there was calm. Cuba will more than likely continue its socialist and anti-imperialist path.

[RebelDog]

Hopefully Cuba can continue to be socialist and Fidel lives for years more. When he does die I believe socialism will continue in Cuba. If it does not and the US gets its way then Cuba can look forward to a future like Haiti which did not have a revolution and has had decades of US aid and intervention and is a hell-hole that can only dream of Cuba's health and education systems.

US companies will seek to exploit Cuba's people, resources and take over the economy and destroy the notion that Cuba's wealth belongs to its people. That is the reality of the US position on Cuba. The rest is window dressing.





https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ha.html


https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Hopefully Cuba can continue to be socialist and Fidel lives for years more.

That is to say, if we are to consider Cuba to be socialist.



Flatline, my prediction would be that there can only be a "yes and no" answer. If the regime decides to keep as tight control as now, if media are not allowed or too scared to criticize, if people do not get more political freedom, if people cannot participate in decision making, if not the economy improves, then status quo will fall.

I am totally convinced of that.

[Umoja]

A few things about Cuba.

-The most important issue for Cuba is the embargo. It alone has held the country back, and weakend the standard of living. Cubans will want to break the embargo, and when Fidel dies that will be a major issue.

-Cubans here in America want their land and resources back. I'd assume a lot of Cuban refugees came from well off families who have become very friendly with the US government. America has always had eyes for Cuba, and this will be their chance.

-Black Cubans have made impressive gains. I feel empathy for them, and wonder if these gains will be kept.

-Political 'dissidents' from America won't have a safe haven anymore.

[Solitary Mind]

Personally, Castro has silenced his critics before, i think even in death he'll prove that the revolution will not die, because the revolution lies in the people...i believe he's smarter than the US believes, and they trust the roughly 300,000 here in miami compared to the millions in Cuba, and well, Pay of Pigs and the recent events have proven the US wrong in my opinion, Castro promoted alot of his personal aides, he understands what it takes for the revolution to survive..

[Viva Fidel!!]

The revolution will live on after Castro dies. Cubans are dedicated to communisim. Most of the valseros left during the special period. But even during the special period, they struggled because they knew they were going to get through it. Which they have been. The people actually didn't like, but knew that Castro had to legalize dollars during the special period because they were desperate. Many Cubans complain about the new Communist/Capitalist system, but know it is the only way to make it through rough times. And it did. Alot of depression, but they are making it through. And Castro breaks his back to make sure Cuba doesn't collapse and he has done a great job. He has held the people together as one body. Even though the Communist/Capitalist system brought inequality, people still stood behind Castro. Like Castro says, "Socialismo O Muerte". One day Cuba will continue on the same track it was before the Special Period, otherwise known as the golden years of the revolution.

[Labor Shall Rule]

I am currently terrified about the political role that Raul will play in post-Fidel Cuba. He is currently apart of the "market socialist" faction of the Cuban Communist Party, and was one of the main proponents of the privatization of the tourist industry. When the Chinese ambassador visited the country, Raul greeted him and commented on how the "Chinese economic model proves that a better world is possible". With his control of the powerful Cuban army and his close relation with many important officers within this millitary, you can expect he will have control whether the country will like it or not.

The future of Cuba will really lie within the hands of the 21 million people living their. With the current outlook towards Cuba, the country would either have to choose to endorse the US-backed Christian Democratic Party in newly implemented "democracy" and support neo-liberal reforms, or support Raul. The population is armed though, and growing labor participation could create some sort of popular effort to stay on the course towards socialism.

[Iseult]

I fear the Cuban exile community in Miami will try to make a claim on the property that Fidel confiscated from them in 59.

LONG LIVE FIDEL!

[Umoja]

Cuba needs to break the embargo. Any future government will have that as their main goal. Cuba doesn't have communist allies anymore, they're the last vestige of Cold War communism, and they need to evolve into something else to survive.

[Sentinel]

Cuba needs to break the embargo. Any future government will have that as their main goal. Cuba doesn't have communist allies anymore, they're the last vestige of Cold War communism, and they need to evolve into something else to survive.

Evolve into what? I don't think anything short of a full restoration of capitalism would make the US lift the embargo. And surely you aren't suggesting that?

And besides, Cuba does have new allies: the bolivarian Venezuela with it's enormous oil resources, Bolivia with it's nature gas, etc.

Many third world countries have a lot to win by allying with Cuba. Like the outstanding medical and educational expertise Cuba offers in return.

No.. Cuba doesn't need to kiss imperial ass anytime in the near future to 'survive' as I see it.

[More Fire for the People]

The construction of socialism will continue and perhaps more rapidly as Cuba acquires more 'socialist' / social demcratic allies in South America. Cuba faces two big problems besides economic development: the USA and its culture.

The threat of the United States is obvious and its equally obvious that the US bourgeoisie thinks the death of leader is the ultimate defeat for the people [I guess the Iraqi lesson hasn't been learned].

The other problem is that Cuba needs to build a culture of liberation — a culture composed of working class übermensch that permits all marginalized elements — queers, women, ethnic minorities — to participate in the public discourse.

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 11:40 PM
The future of Cuba will really lie within the hands of the 21 million people living their.
You mean 11 million?

[Labor Shall Rule]

Originally posted by Jello+Aug 26 2006, 02:36 AM--> (Jello @ Aug 26 2006, 02:36 AM)
[email protected] 24 2006, 11:40 PM
The future of Cuba will really lie within the hands of the 21 million people living their.
You mean 11 million? [/b]
11 million*

[norwegian commie]

the revolution is not upheld by Fidel. The man does not have that much power. Saying Fidel is the thing holding USA away is reddiculus. Why shuld Cuba collapse after Fidel, Cuba is not a country based on one man, but on many. On the party, national assembly, parlament.

Ï belive the cuban people will continue its struggle against american imperialism and towords poverty in latin-america.

[The Grey Blur]

If Fidel does go, isn't Raul supposed to be the true Marxist anyway?

[LSD]

but i heard that when Fidel dies that communisum will go with him

There is no "communism" to "go" anywhere.

Whether or not Cuba will abandon its current programme of bureaucratic socialism, is anyone's guess, but Cuba is not and never has been a "communist" nation.

Personally, I'm hesitant to trust the "true believers" of either spectrum. Fidel Castro is only one man and his death will not instantly undo 50 years of entrentched policy. But at the same time, he is an important reason that "socialism" has lasted this long.

Even disatisfied Cubans tend to like Fidal Castro and his personal charisma has carried an otherwise unremarkable regime to remarkable hights. That's why, in many ways, it doesn't even matter how "democratic" Cuba technically is; Castro's personal power transcends constitutional provision.

As an Anarchist, I'm not one to emphasize the role of "leaders", but the fact is, espececially when it comes to the Soviet inspired faux "socialist" states of the twentieth century, having a powerful uniting figure seems to be essential.

It would appear that "Stalinism" is aptly named after all.

It certainly can't be a coincidence that the only Stalinist states left these days (Cuba and the DPRK) both have cold war era strongmen to "lead" them. The others have either collapsed like the Soviet Union or have so reverted to capitalism that it hardly makes a difference.

The question, as I see it, is which of those roads will Cuba take after Castro finally dies. Personally, I'm betting that it's the latter.

Raul (or Alacon or whomever eventually takes over) will not radically remake the Cuban economy, the bureaucratic class is too poweful for that. But chances are he will set Cuba along the same path that China and Vietnam are following.

Will we see a capitalist Cuba next week or next year? Almost certainly not. But next decade? Who knows...


Ï belive the cuban people will continue its struggle against american imperialism and towords poverty in latin-america.

I assume that was a typo, but you must admit it's a pretty ironic one. :P

Personally I would love to believe that the Cuban people will finally rise up and overthrow their present masters, both economic and political. But history would suggest otherwise.

No Stalinist state has ever successfully transitioned into actual workers' socialism. That doesn't mean that it's impossible of course, fighting two rulling classes might actually be easier than fighting one, what with divio et impera and all that, but as of yet no one's come up with a workably plan of doing so.

[YKTMX]

No Stalinist state has ever successfully transitioned into actual workers' socialism. That doesn't mean that it's impossible of course, fighting two rulling classes might actually be easier than fighting one, what with divio et impera and all that, but as of yet no one's come up with a workably plan of doing so.

Interesting point, LSD.

Some kind of "build it on the ashes" policy. Let the Cuban Army and the Imperialists kill each other and then let the Cuban proletariat come in between and kick both them out.

Haha.
:D

[More Fire for the People]

The Cuban army is the Cuban proletariat. But we already know you codone the killing of workers, YKISOW. LSD's point is moot because Cuba is not Stalinist. It is a republic of working people: the only revolution can be a counter-revolution.

[chebol]

The other problem is that Cuba needs to build a culture of liberation — a culture composed of working class übermensch that permits all marginalized elements — queers, women, ethnic minorities — to participate in the public discourse.

As a socialist, and a german, I would advise against usuing that term.

More pertinently, what you have drawn attention to is a process which is already happening in Cuba under the leadership of the Communist party and the various commmunity organisations.


No Stalinist state has ever successfully transitioned into actual workers' socialism. That doesn't mean that it's impossible of course, fighting two rulling classes might actually be easier than fighting one, what with divio et impera and all that, but as of yet no one's come up with a workably plan of doing so.

Your problem is that you don't appear to understand:
1. stalinism
2. the cuban system
and therefore
3. that Cuba is not stalinist, but has, on the contrary, been involved in a struggle against it since even before the victory of the revolution.

It would be better, and more correct, if you couched your caveat on socialist transistion on the principle of no single state attaining a full form of socialism. This, at least would be correct, in the sense that socialism, and therefore communism, cannot be acheived in one country alone, but must exist as a global form of social organisation.

However, the point you made is predicated on a falsity - ie assuming that Cuba is content 'building socialism' in Cuba alone. Cuba has actually been fighting to extend the self-emancipation of the working class on a global scale, even with their limited resources. So, while socialism of a higher form does not yet exist in Cuba due to material limitations (ie the lack of an international socialist bloc), they are, and always have been, fighting for such.

Further gains in this struggle, as Cuba well recognises, are not dependent on Fidel, but upon finding allies in the struggle - allies that are now appearing, especially in the form of Bolivia and Venezuela.

[Red Rebel]

@NWOG -


That is to say, if we are to consider Cuba to be socialist.

What do you define as socialism? The most common thing would be the abolishment of capitalism, which Cuba has done to a degree. Cuba has only about 10% capitalist economy.


If the regime decides to keep as tight control as now, if media are not allowed or too scared to criticize

I have never been a big fan of the lack of free speech in Cuba, but media companies are privite companies which would be bringing more capitalism to Cuba.


if people do not get more political freedom

People do have political freedom in Cuba. It is different than political freedom in the US. People are not allowed to organize parties, except for Communist Party (which doesn't seem fair, all political parties should be abolished because it only divides the people), but no parties are allowed to run in elections. And I'll quote Cuba’s Electoral System (http://www.cubasolidarity.com/aboutcuba/topics/government/0504elecsys.htm):


There is no propaganda only photographs and biographies of the candidates.

People are not decieved by claims made by politicans, only facts are presented during the elections. People make the right decisions when they are presented all the facts.


if people cannot participate in decision making

Are the people allowed to have a say in their goverment? Yes
Are the people more involved in their goverment than in other countries? Yes
If they don't like a politican, can they vote for another person? Yes


if not the economy improves

The fall of the USSR was a low point for the economy, but just this (spring? might have been early summer) they have reached where the economy was in 1991. The Cuban economy is growing.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 03:11 AM
As a socialist, and a german, I would advise against usuing that term.

More pertinently, what you have drawn attention to is a process which is already happening in Cuba under the leadership of the Communist party and the various commmunity organisations.
Let me guess, because the Nazi's misappropriated Nietzschean terminology we should all avoid using Nietzschean terminology. Since the Nazi flag used red, should we avoid red flags too?

Cuba is in the process of building a culture of liberation. It is still not there. Much machismo still abounds and women and queers are suffering from it. Cuba will have a culture of liberation when every person is an übermensch in the Nietzschean sense of the word: one is creative in revolutonary ideas, destructive of archaic ideas, and self-overcoming.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

What do you define as socialism? The most common thing would be the abolishment of capitalism
I would disagree on such a definition. Simply the superficial "abolishment of capitalism" does not mean socialism.

I would define a socialist society.... As a society where the ruling class has been crushed and the the people (working class and peasantry) are in power; where the means of production (and if a functional state exists) are in the hands of the people. A society in which the people are in power.


which Cuba has done to a degree. Cuba has only about 10% capitalist economy.
Again, I would not measure it like that.


I have never been a big fan of the lack of free speech in Cuba, but media companies are privite companies which would be bringing more capitalism to Cuba.

Why would you assume that in order to have freedom of the press, you need private companies? Is that really so? That you need private companies in order to have free press? If it had been so (its not), then state-owned economy would suck. Totally.

This is something I wrote in a hurry. It's from a previous thread.


"All media is biased. What one can do however, is to reduce the bias. I don't think one can ever remove it, though.

What one can do is to set up a law that says media can never be owned by a capitalist class and work on making that into the consitution. In any case media has to much power to be trusted to private persons.

So how to make things as evenly as possible?
Say there is a small country named Balkistan.

In Balkistan, there are 3 parties that have over 600,000 members. Then there are 7 additional parties that goes over a 300,000 membership boundary.

And there is a media office. Under this office, all newspapers, TV stations are subordinated. There are so and so many papers, and so and so many TV stations. In total there are room for 824 journalists etc. in the media office. These are 824 seats which are distributed among the political parties.


So all 3 large parties will get 25 percent of the journalist seats each. That means 75 percent of the journalist will belong to the most popular parties.

Then the remaining 25 percent of the seats will be evenly distributed among the parties that have crossed the 300,000 limit.

Maybe some seats should be reserved for "independent" people. For example there are some in real life who have started out making a website and have become popular independent journalists and news writers, columnists and so on. And maybe 8 seats would be reserved for these "up and coming people" which the public is interested in.

Doesn't this sound pretty fair and democratic?"



People do have political freedom in Cuba. It is different than political freedom in the US. People are not allowed to organize parties, except for Communist Party (which doesn't seem fair, all political parties should be abolished because it only divides the people), but no parties are allowed to run in elections. And I'll quote Cuba’s Electoral System:
First of all, cubasolidarity is an unrealiable source who have spread completely obvious lies of Cuba before. It's not a trusthworthy source.
Those with basic knowledge on Fidel know he was a lawyer before the rebellion against the Batista regime. That is his education.

Fidel know know how to make an electoral system seem fear, while in reality, it is still the regime who is in total/firm control. The "electoral" system in Cuba looks pretty good but it's deception.

Read this:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...c=54383&hl=cuba (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=54383&hl=cuba)




People are not decieved by claims made by politicans, only facts are presented during the elections. People make the right decisions when they are presented all the facts.

Once again:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...c=54383&hl=cuba (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=54383&hl=cuba)





If they don't like a politican, can they vote for another person? Yes


Could you show us any example of a delegate that HAS been recalled?

Again, I would recommend reading the link (it deals with THIS, and other issues), and foremost talk to someone who has lived in Cuba or has a wife/husband from Cuba, who is in addition not ideologically motivated. Then you realize the regime propaganda is a bunch of lie. And you will realize that the anti-regime propaganda is a bunch of lie, too. None, not the sources who favor the regime, and those who are against the regime, talk the truth.

You don't have to look very far, even if you don't have contact with people who KNOW the real Cuba. You won't get a complete view, but its something, if you just do some research.

People get punished if they do not go to demonstrations.

Regime-loyal people get awarded with fridges, ovens, vacations, TV's, Radio's.

Opponents of the regime are harassed and beaten up.

The press is simply licking the regime up in the arse. (in turn it should be said that people use Granma as a toilet paper, literally)



Are the people more involved in their goverment than in other countries? Yes

Compared to other nations like Jamaica and many other South American countries, Cubans are more involved in politics.

But if you really think that people are more involved in the government in Cuba than in other countries, I would like to see some evidence of that.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Much machismo still abounds and women and queers are suffering from it.

My perception is that the situation for homosexuals in Cuba is not that bad. Okay, if you (are cuban and) go on a homo-nightclub, you will have people yelling "fucking queer" at you when you walk, and the police patrol the homosexual nightclubs.

But there are administrators who are homosexual. And homosexuals are not actively harrassed by the police. It's my perception that the police, and the regime, is more open to homosexuality than the people. In fact the regime has disgusted a lot of people with homosexual awareness stuff, like homosexual relationships shown depicted soap operas.

I really do think the situation of homosexuals in Cuba, is one of the best in South America (despite all the discrimination).

It should be mentioned though, that rastafarians are actively harassed by the police. For example not long ago the Cuban police wanted to arrest every rastafarian because they suspected them of doing and dealing drugs. Luckily, most of the rastas got their hair cut so the police would not know they are rastafarians. And if I remember correctly, anarchists are also more or less actively harassed by the police.
And white people have a tendency of being harsher against coloured people. Racism is still a problem, and blacks continue to suffer.

[Red Rebel]

I would define a socialist society.... As a society where the ruling class has been crushed and the the people (working class and peasantry) are in power; where the means of production (and if a functional state exists) are in the hands of the people. A society in which the people are in power.

5 Reasons Why The People Rule in Cuba (http://www.cuba-solidarity.org/cubasi_article.asp?ArticleID=53)

1. The system responds to the people’s demands
2. The Communist Party takes no part
3. The delegates are answerable to their constituents
4. Consensus and unity rather than contest and division is the basis of the system
5. Civil society is engaged in the process

(apprentaly you don't think Cuba Solidarity is a realiable source but I can provide other links to 2,4, and 5)

Also the people (by your definition) are in power. For National Assembly elections the canadites are nominated by local meeetings and "offical mass organisations" (ie trade unions). The nominees are than approved by the National Candidacy Commission which is made up of leaders of the "offical mass organisations." Than the people vote on a canadite with only the facts presented to them, which would be their biography and picture.


Doesn't this sound pretty fair and democratic?

It does have good ideas. Perhaps even electing a group of people to lead a media group in the goverment (I just don't like giving the media over to political parties because they have an agenda which would just cause division among the people).


Those with basic knowledge on Fidel know he was a lawyer before the rebellion against the Batista regime. That is his education.

Well he isn't an idiot. He has managed to keep Yankee hands (his words not mine) off Cuba for almost 50 years.

From this link:
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...c=54383&hl=cuba


This procedure is clearly against democratic standards: ordinary citizens must show their allegiance. We rightfuly demand that from our elected officials, but ordinary, powerless citizens, who can be persecuted with ease, by either the police or fanaticaly loyal locals, should always be allowed to keep their prefference hidden. This clearly demonstrates un-democratic nature at nomination level.

That is just to nominate a canadite, for the actual election, it is by secret ballot. Also only half the nominees are elected in local meetings. The other half is by "offical mass organisations," though I admit I don't know how they choose there canadites.


In other words, most candidates won the election by the initial show of hands already.

I don't follow how 2-8 canadites running for a seat makes it the election a fraud.


In other words, the voters are obliged to choose their candidate on the basis of their looks and a brief history of their lives.

Except that they are biographies of people, how are they filled with bias? If someone has been a good worker it is stated. If someone else is a good worker and volunteers it is stated. This gives the people the facts they rarely get in US elections. Example, "I'm going to vote for Nader because he is going to legalize weed." What that druggie doesn't know is Nader wanted to leagalize weed for medical purposes.


I do wonder who these mass organizations include: the Communist party is one, party-dominated unions is second, Communist youth is another...
What the above article says is essentialy this: the Communist party doesn't state who will be the candidate, but mearly points to who the best candidates (according to them) are. And you claim this to be a democracy? Get real.

grr I can't find the list of what the "offical mass organisation." But they represent workers, youth, women, students and farmers. But 90% of the active (able to vote and not retired) population is in somesort of trade union, thus giving them the ablility to nominate a canadite.


The Provincial and National Elections and the United Vote

Unlike the municipal elections, there is only one candidate nominated for each seat.

I actually didn't know that.


How is having only one candidate for one seat democratic in any way?

Going back to being nominated by "offical mass organisation" and local meetings and than being chosen by leaders of the "offical mass organisation."

National Elections (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Cuba#National_elections)

"Although there is only one candidate per seat, candidates must obtain the support of 50% of voters to be elected. If a candidate fails to gain 50% of the vote, a new candidate must be chosen."


Curiously missing are the requirements to do so. Do they need to collect a number of signatures, or is three people showing up at the office enough?

I remember reading something about signatures but I have no idea where I read it.


Why is Fidel noted here? It seems as if they are not allowed to elect anyone else.

The Council of State is elected by the National Assembly. Fidel Castro is elected like everyone else, except people know Fidel Castro, that is probably why he is mentioned. Mentioning people like Juan Almeida Bosque, Abelardo Colomé Ibarra, Carlos Lage Dávila, Esteban Lazo Hernández, José R. Machado Ventura, ect would be a waste of space.


Regarding secret ballot. Doesn't the fact that people have to raise their hands in the air to show who they support, prove that there is not a secret ballot (on local level?)?

For nominating canadites yes there is no secret ballot. But no one makes you vote.

Going back to your post now...


Could you show us any example of a delegate that HAS been recalled?

I haven't a clue. But what I was reffering to was that if Juan didn't like Jose he could nominate and than vote for Pedro (random name off of spanish names, pure coincidence that I happened to be vote for pedro).


None, not the sources who favor the regime, and those who are against the regime, talk the truth.

Agreed.


People get punished if they do not go to demonstrations.

First time I have heard of that.


Regime-loyal people get awarded with fridges, ovens, vacations, TV's, Radio's.

Makes sense.


Opponents of the regime are harassed and beaten up.

Most of the opponents can't win in regular elections so they resort to hostile action again the Cuban goverment. That is why they get jailed, ect.


But if you really think that people are more involved in the government in Cuba than in other countries, I would like to see some evidence of that.

In the US I vote. In Cuba I nominate the person I want and then vote.

Also in the US you need a huge amount of money to run in an election and win. In Cuba you don't need to be rich. I'll think of more later, right now its almost 1am and I'm tired.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Also the people (by your definition) are in power. For National Assembly elections the canadites are nominated by local meeetings and "offical mass organisations" (ie trade unions).
As I've understood, "the people" elect the delegates to the National Assembly. However, only one candidate is for each seat. What happens if the people would vote not to this candidate? What would happen?

There would be no other candidates?
Have a candidate EVER been rejected?

Would any pro-Castro people comment on this? Does anyone know?)


Than the people vote on a canadite with only the facts presented to them, which would be their biography and picture.

How is:
"He was born in 1937 and fought in Angola" going to tell the people what kind of candidate this is?



"Although there is only one candidate per seat, candidates must obtain the support of 50% of voters to be elected. If a candidate fails to gain 50% of the vote, a new candidate must be chosen."

Has a candiate EVER been rejected?

And what happens if a candidate is rejected? There will be new elections for the whole country? That doesn't make sense...




For nominating canadites yes there is no secret ballot. But no one makes you vote.

I believe it was a cousin of a friend of mine who was visited by the police. They knocked on her door and wanted to know why she didn't vote.

I would be pretty nervous if the police knocked on MY door and asked why I did not vote.

Maybe it is not forceful voting, but that would keep me in check if I was visited by the police every time I did not vote...




I haven't a clue.


Me neither. Never heard of it though... That is not to say that, just because I have never heard of it, it hasn't happened, but again, I haven't seen any examples...


But what I was reffering to was that if Juan didn't like Jose he could nominate and than vote for Pedro (random name off of spanish names, pure coincidence that I happened to be vote for pedro).

I am not sure if I get that.

Is that possible for the vote in the National Assembly? Apparently you can simply vote for all, some or none of the candidates... But nowhere have we been told what happens in the national assembly elections if a candidate does not gets under 50 % of the votes.


And any case chances are you will be hassled by other people and institutions if you do not vote for pro-Castro folks. You won't get new fridges, vacations, television sets etc. (that are "awarded") like those regime-loyal people do. Those who stay loyal are often rewarded. The same friend of mine I told you about. I believe it was the uncle of his wife who was awarded a television set. He was (is) the (I assume local) leader of CDR. The CDR bosses have to be "good communist"

They, among other things, report on anti-Castro activity and report those who goes a little against the current.

[Red Rebel]

What happens if the people would vote not to this candidate? What would happen?

Than a new canadite is chosen.


Have a candidate EVER been rejected?

No, most canadites get about 84% of the votes.


How is:
"He was born in 1937 and fought in Angola" going to tell the people what kind of candidate this is?

I'm not sure I can't find sources... but I would assume that it is just to present facts about the person. I think the electoral law banning election campaigning is to insure that every canadite gets a fair voice. Also it is hard to get detail on the specifics of the election because pro/anti Cuba sources have a list of a few things they argue again and again. They never go into much detail espically if it doesn't prove there point.


Maybe it is not forceful voting, but that would keep me in check if I was visited by the police every time I did not vote...

True, there is the same thing in Australia.


I am not sure if I get that.

You don't have to vote for the canadite.


And any case chances are you will be hassled by other people and institutions if you do not vote for pro-Castro folks.

No goverment in the world would admit it beat up its own civilians, even if it did. From what i hear from 3rd hand sources (a friend of of a friend) said that it is more idependent people yell insults. Thats not to say a goverment offical won't pay someone to insult a anti-castro person. Again it would be next to impossible to prove it.


You won't get new fridges, vacations, television sets etc. (that are "awarded") like those regime-loyal people do. Those who stay loyal are often rewarded. The same friend of mine I told you about. I believe it was the uncle of his wife who was awarded a television set. He was (is) the (I assume local) leader of CDR. The CDR bosses have to be "good communist"

As I said before that is probably true.


They, among other things, report on anti-Castro activity and report those who goes a little against the current.

Again this is something that is hard to prove, are the people paid off to spy on dissident or is it because they are good citizens.

Just to add something about anti-Castro people in Cuba, most of them are jailed because they do illegal things. Example a major dissident, Martha Beatriz Roque, she was in touch with the terrorist group, Cuban-American National Foundation, because she wanted to speed up transition to a more democratic Cuba (not through elections). She also was in contact with a US congressmen. She was a threat to peace and stability.
debate on another forum (http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63060)

Also for most of my sources here I used Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Cuba)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Than a new canadite is chosen.

That will mean new national elections?


No, most canadites get about 84% of the votes.
Okay, so you have some 600 proposed delegates that are to be "elected" or not like every 4 or 5 years, and they ALL have been accepted, year after year after year after year. Doesn't that sound a bit.... shady?



True, there is the same thing in Australia.


There is compulsory voting in Australia, yes?

My understanding is that the Castro regime's official policy is that there is no compulsory voting. The regime always brag about "look how many people voted! A clear sign of how active our people is at defending the Cuban revolution"




Just to add something about anti-Castro people in Cuba, most of them are jailed because they do illegal things. Example a major dissident, Martha Beatriz Roque, she was in touch with the terrorist group, Cuban-American National Foundation, because she wanted to speed up transition to a more democratic Cuba (not through elections). She also was in contact with a US congressmen. She was a threat to peace and stability.

On the case of Roque, I would not see much problem with arresting her for cooperating with terrorist organizations. That would be well and fine. Just like a government could arrest a person cooperating with Al Qaeda or any other "bad guy organization".

The problem here is that individuals (be it provocated people, state agents or CDR's) beat people like Roque up, threaten them with pistols, etc.) do exactly the same as what Roque would do. And these become just as bad as the people they fight. Okay, fight is not a right word. Harass would be better.




As I said before that is probably true.

OK.

[Red Rebel]

That will mean new national elections?

I would assume that only the region where that rep. was from would have a new election.


Okay, so you have some 600 proposed delegates that are to be "elected" or not like every 4 or 5 years, and they ALL have been accepted, year after year after year after year. Doesn't that sound a bit.... shady?

ok I'll explain:
People nominate canadites for seats (half from "offical mass organisations" the other half from local meetings). The nominees are than reviewed by the National Candidacy Commission. The National Candidacy Commission is made up of leaders of the "offical mass organisations." The National Candidacy Commission chooses a canadite. Then there is an election where the canadite is the only choice. The voter can reject the canadite, but since the National Candidacy Commission (which represents the working class) has already choosen a canadite which represents the people, most people vote for that canadite.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_elections#National_elections)


There is compulsory voting in Australia, yes?

Not sure (source is friend of a friend thing), but I know the police will show up if you did not vote and ask why.


My understanding is that the Castro regime's official policy is that there is no compulsory voting. The regime always brag about "look how many people voted! A clear sign of how active our people is at defending the Cuban revolution"

Which is true.


The problem here is that individuals (be it provocated people, state agents or CDR's) beat people like Roque up, threaten them with pistols, etc.) do exactly the same as what Roque would do. And these become just as bad as the people they fight.

Problem with saying that she was harassed is that it is suspected that the CDR is behind it. It would be extremely difficult to prove the difference between a CDR agent and just a vigilante who disagrees with the dissent.