Is Bush Replaceable ??

[il Commy]

I don't live in the US, but the elections there effects me as much as it effects the rest of the world.

Now everybody begins to understands the crimes of the Republican adminstration - from the imperialist war on Iraq and the lies about iraqi's WMD, through the support of the zionist murder Sharon to the attacks on the USA workers. More and more people join the oposition movment and understand that Bush must go.

But what are the alternatives? The Democrats don't really have a charismatic leader, and they are not much better than the Republicans.

The Greens? They actually brought the victory of Bush in the first place. And though their goals are fine they don't really reflect the needs of the workers.

CPUSA? Workers World? Social Democrats? Socialist Labor Party? Socialist Alternative? Workers International League? Other marxists? too small, too seperated, too un-organized.

National Alliance? Yeah, right. A really enticing alternative :sad:

So are we going to see the Republican reign of terror in the world continues only because the lack of alternative? Tell me your opinons, especially americans.

[redstar2000]

So are we going to see the Republican reign of terror in the world continues only because the lack of alternative?

Live from the U$A: the answer is yes...even if the Democrats win.

A reign of terror is now the norm in the U$A and towards the rest of the world.

Get used to it.

Or resist!

:cool:

[il Commy]

"even if the Democrats win."

But wouldn't the Democrats be less extreme in there attack on workers and other countres? Even if only for a bit of opurtunism?

[Marxist in Nebraska]

But wouldn't the Democrats be less extreme in there attack on workers and other countres? Even if only for a bit of opurtunism?

The Democratic Party has moved to the right. Bill Clinton attacked the welfare safety nets in ways that Ronald Reagan could only have dreamed of.


The Greens? They actually brought the victory of Bush in the first place. And though their goals are fine they don't really reflect the needs of the workers.

I beg to differ. When Republicans steal the presidential elections, you should blame the REPUBLICANS. George Bush is in the White House because tens of thousands of Democratic Party loyalists were barred from the voting rolls in Florida. The Green Party had no part in the disenfranchisement of registered voters.

You can also blame the Democrats, themselves, for George Bush. First, they have ceased to be a true alternative to the Republicans. Given the choice between a Republican and a pseudo-Repub, many voters will take the more honest of the two. Second of all, the Democrats in the US Senate failed to call for an investigation into the Florida scandal. So the Dems are more to blame for their loss than the Greens.

[CopperGoat]

Well, Ralph Nader is running for president again, except this time he is going solo. He's not going to be in any party.

[Josh2]

Personally, I Feel that By Having the Green Party have a decent turn out to vote, the people who voted green, would most likely rather have voted democrat...so in saying this....the green party..technically put bush into office...i mean besides the whole point of having florida issues, and him being put in office illegally. I'm not saying to vote for the democrats. No one should ever vote for them..but until the greens, or socialists etc. get enough support to legitamately run for the presidency, and have a shot at it..i feel that the republican party will be in office. I feel that thats just the way it is until we get enough support to put a green, or socialist etc. in office.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Many of the people who voted for Nader in 2000 would not have voted anyway. In fact, many people who were unregistered did so just so they could vote for him.

[Elect Marx]

Quote: from josh on 3:49 am on July 22, 2003
No one should ever vote for [Democrats]..but until the greens, or socialists etc. get enough support to legitamately run for the presidency, and have a shot at it..i feel that the republican party will be in office. I feel that thats just the way it is until we get enough support to put a green, or socialist etc. in office.

Josh...you speak insanity, would you allow Bush to win (legitimatly) by not even voting? Then he could do away will term limits and become dictator. We should use all of our capacity to stop this bastard president from retaining control.

[Gregorio Allemagna]

I have voted since 1980 for "fringe Candiates" in America. The first beung Anderson.

It is my opinion nothing will change until America finally gets an alternative thrid pary.

Not just another Repub-licrat or Coca Cola/Pepesi Cola party, I mean a real alternative. At this point, I don't care if they are Green, Red or Purple. So long as they aren't Brown or Black.

[Sensitive]

Quote: from Gregorio Allemagna on 8:22 pm on July 25, 2003
I have voted since 1980 for "fringe Candiates" in America. The first beung Anderson.

It is my opinion nothing will change until America finally gets an alternative thrid pary.Yeah I agree. We need a real left party!

[Elect Marx]

Quote: from Sensitive on 5:20 am on July 26, 2003

Yeah I agree. We need a real left party!
Here here! I will join Sensitive. We can bash the right wing with its own Bush. Start asking around will you?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Why would any socialist not want dubya to do another term? Four more years of his absurd economic policies will effectively hack off another 10-15 years from the life of capitalism.

[Fever]

Do you want the puppets on the left or the puppets on the right?

[MikeyBoy]

Why would any socialist not want dubya to do another term? Four more years of his absurd economic policies will effectively hack off another 10-15 years from the life of capitalism.

That is a good point!

[Sensitive]

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 8:38 am on July 26, 2003
Why would any socialist not want dubya to do another term? Four more years of his absurd economic policies will effectively hack off another 10-15 years from the life of capitalism.
lol, agreed...

[Marxist in Nebraska]

We need a real leftist party in the USA to vote for. But how do we build that party, and who do we vote for in the mean time?


Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 8:38 am on July 26, 2003
Why would any socialist not want dubya to do another term? Four more years of his absurd economic policies will effectively hack off another 10-15 years from the life of capitalism.

I do not want Bush for four more years! I would rather take my chances with a kinder, gentler capitalist like Dean. Why? I am not a Democrat. I have no faith in the Democrats. Dems do seem to be slightly less militaristic and fight, if only a tiny bit, for things like unions.

Four more years of Bush will mean wars for any or all of the following: Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, and probably several African nations as well. They all have bullseyes on them if Bush stays in power. The Democrats probably will fight a war in one or two of those countries, but the Republicans would like to invade them all.

The Dems and Repubs are hard to differentiate in several instances, but I do not think they are totally the same. The Dems are AWFUL, but the Repubs are EVEN WORSE. Even if the Dems are evil, they are a lesser evil and I will take my chances with them.

There seems to be an opinion that hard times make people revolutionary. That has some historical precedent, it is true. But there is NO GUARANTEE that suffering people will take the revolutionary path. After some terrible events, people can become MORE REACTIONARY!

Look at the terrorist attacks on Sep. 11, 2001. US imperialism and cynical foreign policy leads to the destruction of the World Trade Centers. There is an opportunity for America to attone for its sins, to stop propping up dictators for the benefit of US corporations... to stop fighting wars at every excuse.

Did that happen? NO! The public became frightened, and fell into follow-the-leader mode. The propagandists in the commercial media whipped up a jingoistic frenzy this country had not seen since at least World War II (hard for me to say, I was not there--I am only 19).

The government responded by openly attacking the Bill of Rights and shamelessly attacking Afghanistan (one of the poorest countries on Earth). The public enthusiastically supported both actions.

Since 2001, Bush has destroyed all of the sympathy the world community had for the US since the attack. His arrogance is straining nearly every alliance the US has. The times got rough, and what happened? The Republicans dominated the 2002 Congressional elections!

Bush and his allies (capitalists, conservative and liberal) are the reason the American proletariat is suffering today. But with the distortion of reality from the capitalist spin doctors, the workers still have tremendous faith in their true enemies.

Rather than supporting the continued suffering of the workers and cheering for George Bush, I believe that the working class has to side with progressives who will make life better for the people. We must use independant media to tell the truth, to show that we and the progressives we support are trying desperately to help the people.

That is the true path to revolution!

[Vinny Rafarino]

Yes comrade dubya is an outrage, however unless there is a MASSIVE revolution we must be content with allowing capitalism to run it's filthy course while striking at capitalist targets from a micro scale. We can't even keep the new-leftists inline at this point in time so it is not at all appropriate to place our bets on massive revolution. Sure we all have out theories on how to create a massive movement but the facts remain the same. The animal is too large and will die on it's own. It's inevitable.

As much of a filthy bastard Dubya is, he is continually shaving time off the life of capitalism and is therefore agreeable. I am a communist solely, and will do whatever it takes to advance out timeline. Dubya's policies are the perfect tool for communism.

As is the case always, the masses are not politacally mature enough to know shit from shinola and will follow whatever ideal is most popular. Who really cares if they suppost capitalism fully if the economic platform is crumbling? Once it's gone, they will have no choice but to accept a more pristine way of thinking.

The sheep can then be herded

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 6:51 am on July 27, 2003)

[Morpheus]

If a real leftist was elected in the states there would be capital flight and he would be forced to become more conservative. The CIA has manipulated elections and launched many coups in other countries, they could easily do so domestically if necessary. Real power does not lie with elected offices, they are puppets who must obey their corporate masters.

[vox]

Despite Redstar2000's very typical hysteria, the fact is that every American on this board should vote for Dennis Kucinich. If you don't know why you should, I'll be more than happy to tell you.

He's a liberal who wants economic justice and a peaceful approach to foreign and domesic policy.

Some might whine that he's not a socialist. I DON"T CARE.

I care about people more than ideology, and Kucinich will help more people than your ideololgy.

We can WIN if we VOTE.

Spread the word.

vox

[redstar2000]

Despite Redstar2000's very typical hysteria, the fact is that every American on this board should vote for Dennis Kucinich.

And after he loses, then...???

What is difficult to understand is why people who consider themselves "socialists" and even "communists" would waste a second of their time attempting to influence a process--capitalist elections--that is both entirely impervious to their efforts and entirely ineffective for their goals.

Vote or not, it makes no difference. Campaign or not, it makes no difference. Give money or not, it makes no difference. Support a "left" bourgeois party or a "socialist" party, it makes no difference!

Active resistance is the only agent of social change under capitalism and always has been...aside from revolution itself, of course.

Even if you're a reformist by inclination and only want gradual change...active resistance is the only way you'll achieve even that.

Kissing the ass of bourgeois politicians never works.

:cool:

[Josh2]

exactly red star...like i was saying..what DO we do after kucinich doesnt get the nomination. Then what....i agree id vote for him, but..what happens when lieberman gets the ticket? vote for him??? And I agree that we need a real left party, i definetly would join, i think if we are ever going to do anything in america, we need a united front. Of the greens, reds, socialist, every liberal working class party in america, needs to unite. call it the UWP, united workers party.

[Danton]

Here's a likley candidate, wow what a winning smile!


http://www.blair2004.com/

[il Commy]

Quote: from Danton on 4:25 pm on July 29, 2003
Here's a likley candidate, wow what a winning smile!

http://www.blair2004.com/

LOL! It's like the guys who wrote "Bill Clinton" on the blank notes on the elections in Israel.