Fascists Vs. Communists - Who would win?

[commieboy]

Lately on the history channel theres been a few shows on the Neo Nazis and KKK in america. And i saw a video of a Anti KKK protest by the US communist party, and when it got rough the nazis and KKK pulled guns and killed members of the communist party. This is what pisses me off, i think that we should be better prepared but what happened then was a tragity, and the killers were found innocent the jury thought they fired in slef defense.

But watching that made me think.....can the kkk and fascists over power the communist and even socialist even though the socialists are nonviolent. I'm just saying that someone like the KKK and neo nazis should NEVER EVER have more leathel power than the communists. If there was a battle in some foreign land just an open country, say siberia in the summer there was an all out war communists against Fascists and KKK. no outside interferance by anyone...only weapons provided by funds that our partys recieves can be used or privatley owned weapons....who would win? Its just like a question i would like to know...not that it would happen or i want it to happen but just somthing im curious about like could ghandi take mother teresa...i know it would never happen but you know just one of those things you think of....sorry if i pissed any of you off by this but im just wonderin...do the evil fascist/racist bastards have more military power over us communist/socialists...because if so....we really need to fix that. soon

[Sensitive]

Hmm... I think I've heard of that shooting. I believe it was in the 1960s (civil rights movement) and it wasn't the Communist Party USA, but something like the Workers Communist Party (which was the official sister party of the Chinese Communist Party if I remember right).

Anyway, we'd bash those fascist pricks' heads in with our hammers and cut out their guts with our sickles!

[vox]

I believe in non-violence.

I also believe in the world as it IS.

With that in mind, I recommend that every liberal/progressive/Leftist own and understand firearms. My personal bias runs toward the SAM7 by Arsenal for rifles (best AK-47 on the market today, and it holds 30 round mags and drums) and the Glock 17 (preferably first generation with the large clip, pre-ban) for a handgun.

Owning a weapon doesn't require you to use the weapon, of course, but it provides an option.

[commie kg]

I believe hardcore Fascists should be militantly opposed. I don't consider them people.

[commieboy]

well, i do really like your weapons preference VOX although im a traditional AK-47 or AKM guy, and a nice large capacity Berretta 92FS....but i believe in having weapons too, i think you should know them. and be very prepared...i dont premote going out and starting trouble, but if the fascist shoot a communist at a protest i think we should have the right to mow them all down in a hail of gun fire. But thats just me. just i think big...they throw a rock at us, we throw a grenade back. but once again....thats just me

Also on a KKK program...i heard the "Grand wisord" yelling, "I hate niggers, Spiks, Jews, Chinks And Arabs!" then later in the show i saw a young KKK member out of the bed sheets sporting his new Maadi Egyptian AK copy...i think its funny that eventhough they hate the people, they'll buy their guns.

(Edited by commieboy at 8:08 am on July 17, 2003)

[vox]

Commieboy,

I don't want to get too far off-topic here, but I think if you check out the specs on the Arsenal SAM7, you'll really like it. It's definitely an AK-47, but it corrects some of the accuracy problems that plague other models. I don't think the AK-47 will ever compare to, for example, the M403 for accuracy, it's not a sniper rifle and won't be accurate at 1000 yards, but it's reliable, like all AKs, and this one is simply a beautiful weapon.

It's really impossible to say anything bad about the Beretta 92FS and its variants. It's a solid weapon, to be sure, but I still like Glocks. They are reliable as the sunrise and can take a ton of abuse. I think that it's telling that the firing mechanism that Glock pioneered has become an industry standard. It's true that I may be a bit nostalgiac for the Glock 17, but hell, it's a good 9mm and a pre-ban clip will hold at least 18, and you can always carry one in the chamber, if you're a little nuts. :-) (But, given Glock's "safety" mechanism, it almost makes sense to do that.)

One thing I don't know much at all about is shotguns. Know anything about them?

[Sensitive]

More regarding the OT... we already did beat the fascists, when it mattered the most... in World War II.

http://www.nebraskaatheists.org/redarmy.gif

Lets always be sure to remind the fascists of this picture...

[commieboy]

I'm not the best on shotguns...but if i was given an option, i'd say s SPAS (Special purpose automatic shotgun) would be my first choice. My uncle has one and its an awesome 12 guage for the eight hundred bucks...well balanced and by pressing a button you can change from semi auto to pump. Italy used it for cops and military until they came up with the SPAS 15 that loads a clip.
http://securityarms.com/bbsframe.htm
This is a wonderful firearms BBS and they have the best photo libary or weapons...but they dont really appreciate the leftist thinking, but they're nice guys overall

[CompadreGuerrillera]

my personal favorite weapons config. is an HKMP5(smg(german)), and a Cz.97 for pistol(czech)

the Cz.97 is like the 45, in its "STOPPING" power, without as much recoil, and the MP5 is small, portable, and extremely deadly. If any of u know alot about WW2, ud know that the german mp40 was kick-ass or at least was a standard german smg.

well thats that for weapons.

[commieboy]

i would think that if you're in a guerilla situation you wouldn't want the MP5, because the rounds aren't big enough. unless it urban then thats totally differnt, i think the standard AK-47 will always be the first choice for me and alot of revolutionaries....although VOX i did read up on that SAM7 but think for the price of one SAM7 you and buy three AK-47s.

[bluerev002]

Of course the commies would win, I mean you have all the workers adn the peasants fighting a group of blind shithead mo' fo's. Its like the whole countr v. one group.

[CompadreGuerrillera]

most of teh revolution WILL be in urban areas(in America at least)

a short concentarted burst when the guy turns a corner, and hes lunch-meat

[Elect Marx]

As long as it is an internal struggle, the minority is screwed, I like to think this favors us commies because we will be powerful if the public is informed and not endoctrinated. Though in a fascism like Nazi Germay it would be the other way around. Some kind of hell.

[elijahcraig]

Communism doesn't have the workers right now, at least in America. The propaganda machine has devoured all communist-worker alliance. It is small if at all, but the media would distort a violent revolution to all ends.

[CubanFox]

I know how to use an AK-47 except I don't know how to eject the magazine :biggrin:

[F1DG3T]

anyone here seen romper stomper?
definately commies would win

though i am against violenceit only leads to death which is the one thing we should not do

[Felicia]

we'd win! Leftists are willing to fight for the benefit of others, while fascists are only willing to fight if they are directly benefiting from the conflict.

How much is it for a nice AK (in american or canadian)?

lets just say that I'm in the market for one ;)

(Edited by felicia at 9:57 am on July 18, 2003)

[commieboy]

i was at a gunshow a week ago, and the normal price for a Romanian SAR-1 which is basically an AK-47 is $319 american and these are basically the cheapest in price not quality that you could find. But i think you could find egyptian and chinese ones for slightly more but not worth the money. These should be the guns if we ever are forced to use them, cheap easy and the round is probably the most common on earth next to the 9mm i think. And there is a lever infront of the triggergaurd the release the magazine.

Any other questions children?

[CubanFox]

Push the level, slap a new magazine in, pull back the little silver thing on the side. Then pull the trigger?

[commieboy]

basically and the little silver thing(bolt) and then you're locked and loaded

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Quote: from felicia on 1:56 pm on July 18, 2003
we'd win! Leftists are willing to fight for the benefit of others, while fascists are only willing to fight if they are directly benefiting from the conflict.

How much is it for a nice AK (in american or canadian)?

lets just say that I'm in the market for one ;)

(Edited by felicia at 9:57 am on July 18, 2003)


You can buy an AK-47 for just 100 buks on the market, just search well.

Every infantery group always needs a.......reliable sniper.

:D :D :D

A sniper is the eyes and advisor of a commander and is always handy to put down a couple of facists on a distance.

I would choose a semi-automatic, silenced and accurate one. Something like the famous PSG-1 or our SVD.

Since a MP5 doesn't have much wight and fires very quikly, it's always handy in case an enemy comes to close to effectivly combat the person with a sniper.

And for sidearm I would choose a DE (Desert Eagle) It has .50 mm. More then enough to make a nice whole in kevlar or atleast to damage severly.

+kevlar, helmet, guilly suite (only in jungle or woods) I would be pretty heavy :(

But luckilly I don't have to move much in combat.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Quote: from elijahcraig on 8:36 am on July 18, 2003
Communism doesn't have the workers right now, at least in America. The propaganda machine has devoured all communist-worker alliance. It is small if at all, but the media would distort a violent revolution to all ends.


The workers in the US will never follow communism. These sheep think they have it good already. The potential lies with the 33 million americans that live below the poverty level. If you don't know what that means then understand this;

To be considered under the poverty level in the US, a single individual cannot exceed the income of $2300.00 per year.

[elijahcraig]

I wasn't aware that many lived below the poverty line.

[Dirty Commie]

Remember the Golden Rule, he who has the big ass gun makes the rules.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Check out http://www.census.gov/ elijah.

comrade CCCP when using rifle for sniping purposes you will always choose a bolt-action rifle. When millimetres count, you cannot have the small amount of inaccuracy that an auto-loading bolt gives.

In addition I believe you meant .50 calibre.
50 MM cannons are fired from ships.

[CompadreGuerrillera]

i personally favor urban guerilla style combat, i.e. hiding and fighting only when sure of a kill, using the short range light weapons for the job, a couple sprays behind a door, cant fail, or around the corner

alleyways, are nice hiding spots, ALWAYS look for a place that has limited directions of entrance, you should guard a place that u have to constantly look back and forth, u need to watch one entrane and one only, so u dont get shot in the back

just some basic things

and if u dont know how to use a weapon, you should get shotguns, and MAYBE an smg, the skill levels arent as demanding

and if u still dont know, u will learn quite quickly in the heat of battle.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 11:54 pm on July 20, 2003
Check out http://www.census.gov/ elijah.

comrade CCCP when using rifle for sniping purposes you will always choose a bolt-action rifle. When millimetres count, you cannot have the small amount of inaccuracy that an auto-loading bolt gives.

In addition I believe you meant .50 calibre.
50 MM cannons are fired from ships.


:P yup, I was confused about calibre and MM.

But the big disadvantage of bolt action is that you have to move a lot, for reloading it. Making you visible for enemy's. An enemy sniper or soldier could easily detect you.

In the sort of combat, that a guilly suite is a nessicity and even the white of your eyes could betray your position, I would rather move as little as possible.

And Urban fightings ask for shorter distances to shoot, so compensating the inaccuracy of a semi-automatic rifle.

And most fightings do take place at cities, nowadays.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

BTW: People did you see the images of the rebels in Liberia?

What an onproffesioneel bunch of people.

I saw one of the rebels in harsh combat, he was wearing a sort of hat, a big fluffy yellow hat. He was sort of hopping around, shooting with his AK-47 from a low position. So actually not aiming at all. While you could see the bullet hits on the ground next to him. :S

[Sabocat]

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 6:54 pm on July 20, 2003
Check out http://www.census.gov/ elijah.

comrade CCCP when using rifle for sniping purposes you will always choose a bolt-action rifle. When millimetres count, you cannot have the small amount of inaccuracy that an auto-loading bolt gives.

In addition I believe you meant .50 calibre.
50 MM cannons are fired from ships.


For sniping purposes, I would highly recommend the Browning A-Bolt II, with the BOSS accuracy device/muzzle break. I'm especially fond of the Federal Trophy ammunition in 150gr. .30-06. Not that I would know anything about it really....I'm just saying....;)

The MP5 would be tough to beat in an urban setting, or of course the time honored favorite "Street Sweeper" shotgun, filled with 00 buck shot. Equivalent to being shot with a bunch of .32 caliber pistol rounds.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

My knowledge on wapons isn't that big, compared to a few of you.

But a shotgun is kinda big and difficult to carry with you, next to a sniper. Therefor I would choose the MP5.

[Felicia]

Quote: from CCCP on 5:25 pm on July 20, 2003

Quote: from felicia on 1:56 pm on July 18, 2003
we'd win! Leftists are willing to fight for the benefit of others, while fascists are only willing to fight if they are directly benefiting from the conflict.

How much is it for a nice AK (in american or canadian)?

lets just say that I'm in the market for one ;)

(Edited by felicia at 9:57 am on July 18, 2003)


You can buy an AK-47 for just 100 buks on the market, just search well.

Every infantery group always needs a.......reliable sniper.

:D :D :D

A sniper is the eyes and advisor of a commander and is always handy to put down a couple of facists on a distance.

I would choose a semi-automatic, silenced and accurate one. Something like the famous PSG-1 or our SVD.

Since a MP5 doesn't have much wight and fires very quikly, it's always handy in case an enemy comes to close to effectivly combat the person with a sniper.

And for sidearm I would choose a DE (Desert Eagle) It has .50 mm. More then enough to make a nice whole in kevlar or atleast to damage severly.

+kevlar, helmet, guilly suite (only in jungle or woods) I would be pretty heavy :(

But luckilly I don't have to move much in combat.

Yeah, but you have to take into consideration what type of ammo you're going to be able to get your hands on while in a third world setting ;)

[CompadreGuerrillera]

CCCP has the right idea! MP5 is a weapon most of u will prolly wind up using. Cities are also ideal places for snipers, altho i dont care too much for them.

[commieboy]

Okay, im going to say this to clear up alot of mistakes ive heard on this board, i've been away for a while and the comp i had was way too slow. For sniping...you want a bolt action rifle...Why? because after you fire that shot the enemy are going to see that shinny brass casing fly out of the chamber, and even hear it in some cases. So you use the bolt because you can control when and how the casing flys out, in the states the standard sniping rifle is the M249 i believe, and basically is a militarized remington 700. thats a bolt action, in the UK they use a Auccracy international which too is a bolt action. these two countries have the best trained soldiers with the best equipment possible. and who ever said a shotgun is difficult to carry around probably forgot that you can saw off the barrel, or just get those short double barrel coach guns at your local sporting goods store. and i don't care what any of you say but how in the hell is a guerilla going to get an MP5 why spend thousands of dollars on one person to get one gun when with the same money you can buy a dozen AKs and ammo? you might aswell be saying you just want a bazooka. You get what is easy and cheap an AK-47 is both easy and cheap. And i have heard of them going for 120 dollars in Africa where they're worth one chicken and are sold at markets alongside a chicken. I dont care what you say, the AK-47 and varients are the guns of the revolution. Any person who disagrees should be shot with one, and then can make an accurate discion.

Lets put it this way
romanian SAR1= $319
75 round drum clip= $99
440 rounds of 7.62X39mm=$39
Ridding the world of fascist sum= Pricless

[EL OBiSPO]

At the risk of being heavily criticised...

Is it really right to encourage a debate on who would win in a war out of 2 large masses of people. I know we're only speaking hypothetically *for now atleast* but should we not be trying to come to a peaceful resolve at all costs. There is too much violence in the world already, a large proportion of it pointless.

Having said that. I can definetly say that if any such war were to ensue I would be strongly oppose to the rightwing extreme's. I have taken into account their views and while I respect some them I do not share them.

White nationalism is a threat. Groups like W.A.R and the K.K.K are a threat. While I agree that they should be proud of our race *speaking as a white male* I do not agree with the persicution of another just because of the colour of their skin. Or their beliefs.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most of these groups fiercely pro-christian. Wasn't Jesus Christ himself a Jew? And didn't Moses, a Pivitol figure in both Jewish and Christian religion. Marry an Euthiopian woman?

Anyways, I feel as if I have strayed off the point here.
Despite these boards encouraging freedom on speech, is it really necessery to debate something as this while it is purly in the hypothetical stage. This attack was surly a one-off. And while I don't condone it. I don't believe a full on facism Vs. Communism war is the way to go about discussing it. Instead why not try and figure the motives, and what can be done to prevent stuff such as this in the future.

[CompadreGuerrillera]

good point, but u dont have to BUY the fucking weapons, take over the weapons faciltites, and ammo dumps, and from the dead hands of the enemy, any ways possible

[Felicia]

Quote: from CompadreGuerrillera on 12:04 am on July 22, 2003
good point, but u dont have to BUY the fucking weapons, take over the weapons faciltites, and ammo dumps, and from the dead hands of the enemy, any ways possible
Silly boy. You need weapons to begin with. what? Are you going to take over the weapons factory with sticks?

It's pointless to take over a weapons making facility unless your men can make weapons and operate the machinery, most likely they wouldn't be able too because they're most likely going to be peasants. Plus weapons facilities aren't just easy to snatch up, they could be on military compounds or god knows where...

What you do is get your weapons brought to you via your underground network (which gets them from another country in support of the leftist revolution) and you get your ammo supplies by ambushing military supply lines and taking weapons off of the dead soldiers. :)

[commieboy]

okay, if we're still talking about fighting fascists...the only weapons facility or ammo dump will be a double wide trailer in the heart of kentucky. but like felicia said, you cant beat the shit outa someone then steal their guns, you need to come prepared. Im not saying you need an UZI or AK. but you cant go in unarmed its just stupid. And if you want to get a good understanding of guerillas and how it is....i think that red dawn is good movie to see how guerillas fight. even though in this movie they are fighting the USSR and Cuba, the young people in this movie know the land and scavenge weapons....they fucking kill people with hunting bows! and i think with a small band of guerillas trying to obtain arms the best thing would to get the weapons covertly. Have a plan, have your men or women know what they are looking for and only what you need, or what you can carry and still get out with. Im not to favorable of the gunsblazing approach, too much movement is a bad thing.

[CompadreGuerrillera]

Quote: from felicia on 6:30 am on July 22, 2003

Quote: from CompadreGuerrillera on 12:04 am on July 22, 2003
good point, but u dont have to BUY the fucking weapons, take over the weapons faciltites, and ammo dumps, and from the dead hands of the enemy, any ways possible
Silly boy. You need weapons to begin with. what? Are you going to take over the weapons factory with sticks?

It's pointless to take over a weapons making facility unless your men can make weapons and operate the machinery, most likely they wouldn't be able too because they're most likely going to be peasants. Plus weapons facilities aren't just easy to snatch up, they could be on military compounds or god knows where...

What you do is get your weapons brought to you via your underground network (which gets them from another country in support of the leftist revolution) and you get your ammo supplies by ambushing military supply lines and taking weapons off of the dead soldiers. :)


uh, ya, we WOULD have weapons, pistols, knives, hunting rifles, shotguns, things we can get easy and cheap for the job, besides, WHOS GONNA GUARD THE SHIT, there are backdoors, ways to sneak around the guards,

WHAT U WANT A FUCKING TANK?

and certainly workers taking the guns from inside can easily overunn the factory, its been done b4, in Hungary 1956, so i think it could be done here too.

[Felicia]

oh, ok, pick a country and do a search for their weapons making facilities. They could get their weapons from out of the country. I know that Canada makes the tanks that the US uses.

[dopediana]

felicia shooting an AK47 is the last thing i'd ever expect to witness.

i don't advocate violence. but i do advocate reciprocity.

[Felicia]

Quote: from the amaryllis on 4:29 pm on July 22, 2003
felicia shooting an AK47 is the last thing i'd ever expect to witness.

i don't advocate violence. but i do advocate reciprocity.
Oh? How do you support the FARC and other guerrilla movements? They may not have been fired upon first, but violence and aggression against the enemy is unavoidable. But I'm sure that you agree with that, that social injustice and inequality is reason to fire the first shot. It's a justifiable action.

Did you mean the me shooting a weapon was the last thing you'd expect to see. Or just one being fired by anyone? That sentence can be taken both ways :biggrin:

cause I'll fire one ;)

quite frankly, guns scare the crap out of me, I'm afraid I'll shoot myself if I just look at one :biggrin: But that's my parents fault for raising me with "guns are bad, DON'T TOUCH, YOU'LL KILL SOMEONE WITH THAT!!!!!!" .... ah, I'll break out of it eventually, they just didn't want me to touch the hunting rifle ;)

(Edited by felicia at 4:37 pm on July 22, 2003)

[CompadreGuerrillera]

personally i dont like guns, but in many cases, like violent revolution they are nesesary(me captain of the obvius) :)

i am for an attempt at peaceful revolution, but i wouldnt go on a limb for that. I think its almot impossible, the ruling class wll always hold on to thier power, negotiations COULD make the life of the proletariat better, but wed still be slaves, dont forget that, until there is a classless society, we can never stop.

just my 2 cents(why do i always leave that at the end of my posts) :)

[CienfuegosJnr]

Fighting against Fascists / Racists....
A Race war ....... That could turn any first world country on its head!!
Could bee good!
Bring the those Bums on, I say!!... the rest could follow!

[vox]

Commieboy,

You're right, the SAM7 is high-end, but it's still a great rifle. And I was impressed with your point about sniper rifles as well.

I'd like your opinion on something: home defense. I maintain that a .357 loaded with .38 wadcutters is a good choice, but a lot of folks seem to disagree. They want more firepower. Too much firepower, if you ask me. Hell, you don't want to shoot through the intruder, the wall, another wall, the neighbor, the neighbor's dog, yet another wall...you get my point. A .45 isn't needed.

In fact, it may be bad. The kick on a .45 is pretty strong. Figure that it's the middle of the night, you're scared already, and suddenly this BOMB goes off in your hand! No thank you.

But wadcutters, with their flat noses, take out a nice chunk of flesh upon penetration, causing massive blood loss. Plus the kick isn't too extreme, so the NEXT shot is more likely to hit, and really, let's face it, if this is being used for home protection how far are you going to be shooting? 20 feet? Wadcutters are accurate enough for that. It's cop methodolgy: aim for the center and fire three times.

Just wondering,

v