Can I be a Communist?

[Red Dao]

Hey everyone,

I have a very important Question. I have just finished reading the Communist Manifesto, and have been converted to Marxism. I feel however, that I live in a upper middle class society, go to prep school etc. and I feel very guilty that I do all of these things knowing the suffering going on all around the world. I have donated alot of my things (I also threw out my crucifixes and religious statues, they are useless) and have given it all away to charity. I have also rejected my religion, and openely debate all those that are believers. I feel that this helps people around me think differently.

However, what is killing me is the fact that I live in a large house, with a pool, and many animals and luxuries, my parents are also die-hard capitalists, and dont let me wear things with Communist symbols, or messages on them. I feel like with all these luxuries, I am a huge hypocrite, but also i feel like I cannot help what enviornment I grow up in.

Please give ur opinions, thanks.

[Poum_1936]

Your a communist. You dont need to be dirt poor to maintain a certain ideology.

And now, time for a little history lesson. Two of anarchism major theorticians, Peter Kropotkin and Mikhail Bukanin, both Russian princes. Frederick Engels, capitalist. His money often supported Marx. Marx's wife, came from a rich aristocratic family from Prussia. Her brother was a Minister of the Interior during a very reactionary time period. I also believe Fidel Castro came from a rich background, though his "credentials" as a communist is debateable.

Huge names in the socialist movement have come from wealthy backgrounds. It cant be helped. Its not your fault you were born or where and so forth.

[Rollo]

Put communist things on anyway, try and force them to take it off you then get them for assault. BAM money to help support the revolution.

Welcome by the way comrade.

[Dyst]

Communism is no religion. You can think and represent yourself and your own thoughts and ideas even if you consider yourself a communist.

So yes, just be yourself. You're not a huge hypocrite, as long as you are helping others by making them look at subjects differently.

[encephalon]

My only suggestion would be to flunk yourself out of prep school, though I know some here would disagree with me on that point. Then you give your parents little choice but to send you somewhere that's a little less class exclusive. If they send you to military school, proclaim to the entire school that you're homosexual. Refuse to get out of bed. If they homeschool you, don't do anything. Etc, etc.

You're really in more control of your own life than you think, especially given the fact that you have some legal protection, albeit very little. With current laws, however, your parents really can't force you to do much of anything without risking losing you entirely to the state. It might seem a bit harsh to play that card, but if you don't like the situation you're in right now without choice, there are few ways to change it without being harsh.

If you can deal with it all for a few years, then it's probably a better bet to let them think they control your every thought. You are under no obligation to be truthful to them--in fact, while I wouldn't go so far as to say they're your enemy, they are your oppressors in many ways, and you've no more obligation to be truthful to them than a raccoon has the obligation to clean the house of a person who leaves a bowl of cereal out in the yard.

And don't let your parents know that you're associating with other communists online. Their best bet will be to isolate you from external influences. Clear your history and cache, etc.

I'd suggest studying a bit more as well, since the communist manifesto is rather "light" reading.. and many of its points are outdated as well (many things it advocated are in place under capitalist regimes!). Plus, there are things about the whole movement that you might not want to swallow.. and while I think it's silly to reject something just because you don't like it, I know that many people do so. If you're serious about it, then it would be a greater loss to the movement (or even the left as a whole) for you to completely change your mind over some trivial matter down the road, rather than immediately.

In any case, I hope you learn something here, if nothing else. Welcome.

[Ze]

welcome, comrade. I applaud your critical thinking and growing understanding of how the current conditions in this world affect not only yourself and your family but people you've never met as well. You are a revolutionary, never forget that. Never conform to other people's ideals. Be true to yourself and everything will work out fine.

One thing of concern from your post is your use of the word 'convert'. You are not indoctrinated, you just unlearned the bs of capitalism and religion. You are free...almost.

[sri]

It's very fine to know about you.I think You have just started your journey.Go on reading and discussing to know and understand more even about philosophy including Dialectical and historical materialism ,biographies of philosophers including Marx & Engels,world history, modern revolutionary histories of different countries ,biographies of all revolutionary leaders,economics particularly Marxian economy including marxist-leninist fundamentals.Try to understand different policies of the state particularly on education,science and war, interact and involve within your social circle.
I hope, this process will also ,help you to become a communist.

If any one wants to bocome a communist, one has to free himself from the bourgeois
ideology and culture and rise to the level of communist consciousness and culture by involving himself in various struggles going on around him in the society and home. Communissm is not the ideology of renunciation or crude revolt.It's a scientific world outlook in order to understand and change the world and the greatest science of revolution also.So. in order to become a communist, one has to struggle to acquire the
necessary knowledge and culture particularly through involving various types of class struggles, including in the feild of knowledge also.

[norwegian commie]

congratulations and welcome to the club :D
Always nice with these sort of stories.
You are a communist.

I do not come from a proletar family, they ar downer middle class, live in a big house. However my entire family is communist with roots all the way to the sovjets, and we are 7 people in the house. So a different case yes, but you see the point. What i find difficult is to advicate my communist thougts in a new enviroment. Now i have started in an new school, and find it dficult to talk as freely as i did before about my political views. I my old one i was known for my political enthusiasm... This makes me feel kind of bad, and i will take the politics to the school eventualy. Just need them to warm up to me, sort of. After all it s only my 5th day.

But all that aside, good luck with you and your political rebirth.

-By the way, it is not debatebal weather or not Fidel is Communist. He is, plain and simple.

[Lamanov]

I personally don't like the fact that you consider yourself "converted" by only one very old book!

My suggestion: leave the sectarian symbols for now and try to work on yourself mentally and intelectually. You don't need to fight off your parents nor your social origin. You cannot be a hypocrite if your goal is real.

[Delta]

Welcome, and congrats on overcoming two large hurdles that many people can't get over (religion and capitalism)!

Don't feel bad about growing up in a wealthy household either. I grew up in basically the same financial situation that you are in. Instead, use it to your advantage! Use your increased leisure time to learn more about the subject (and don't forget to look into anarchism also). We can help you choose some good books in our Literature threads. Later on in life you can help use some of your personal wealth to support important causes in your community.

But for now, just have fun learning. Many sources are online, so you don't have to leave books around your room for your parents to find. When you understand the ideas better and are able to defend them well, then you may feel comfortable to argue them in front of your parents.

[Red Dao]

wow! Thanks for all the very nice and uplifting reply's comrades!

Now I feel like I truly am a Communist! and no nead to fear, I was only using the word "conversion" to mean that I know support the struggle for true democracy and freedom.

Thanks everybody.

[redhmong]

You cannot choose your family and parents. But you can choose your belief.
I think the important thing is how can you do for communism, but not which class you are from. Communism doesn't discriminate everybody.

So, welcome comrade!

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Keep your current lifestyle and don't worry so much. Communism is a belief in an ideological system. And honestly, anarchist theory states that wealth can corrupt people because it is a form of power. Many people are capitalist because they believe it does (or it does) work in their best interests. Communism isn't some ideology about self-sacrifice (aka, a religion), but it is a theory involving maximizing the amount of enjoyment all people get from life. It is an acceptance of the fact that collectivization is the most effective method for large-scale production and human development. No one can be expected not to work in their own self-interest. It's silly to think so.

Look at Noam Chomsky. He realizes that the anarchist movement is beneficial and enjoys writing about the truths of communism. However, he isn't willing to give up his financial status for an ideology. Why? He isn't a matyr, that's why. His writing about anarchism is fundamentally hurting his class interests so he continues to do so because it interests him and he enjoys it. If push came to shove and his class interests were threatened, he'd turn capitalist like the rest of them - or be dealt with in a quick an efficient manner.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and, if by some slim chance power doesn't corrupt someone, another power destroys that someone.

[ComradeBen]

Welcome comrade, I am in the same boat as you. I understand were you come from. I applaud that you have chosen this path, as it would do a lot of people good to follow the same path. I hope you enjoy your time here!

[Taboo Tongue]

Let me be the first to say no, atleast not right now you aren't. (Though of course possible)


Originally posted by Red Dao
I live in a upper middle class society
Upper Middle Class? Two main classes under capitalism "Bourgeois" and "Proletariat," a few smaller sub-classes but none of these are the mythical "Upper Middle."
The only real thing I could think of you mean by Upper Middle Class is petty-bourgeois with about a hundered labourers.

So drop the bullshit Capitalist: "Upper-Middle-Lower" class analysis, for the Marxist one and I don't see why you couldn't be a communist.




(note: I wouldn't consider myself one right now either but for other reasons)

[Ol' Dirty]

Rich or poor, less or more; if you really want to unbind yourself and others from the ties of oppression, by all means, become a socialist! I'm glad that you actually care about the world, unlike others from of the upper-class. I'm glad that you are interested in scoialism. :)

Socialism knows no borders, realy. Fascists and Capitalists can be from any class or creed, as it is for communism. Beleive me, I'm not living on the streets, but I'm still socialist.

If your parents think disllike socialism, then merely tell them that your ideologies are different, what you beleive, why you believe in it and that you love them despite of your differences.

[Floyce White]

Poor people are exploited and struggle to end exploitation. Rich people do as they please. Some rich people please to call themselves "communists" so they can infiltrate the struggle of their tenants and employees, and manipulate it to serve their narrow property interests.

Persons of upper-class family origin can never be communists.

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by Floyce [email protected] 23 2006, 02:23 AM
Poor people are exploited and struggle to end exploitation. Rich people do as they please. Some rich people please to call themselves "communists" so they can infiltrate the struggle of their tenants and employees, and manipulate it to serve their narrow property interests.

Persons of upper-class family origin can never be communists.
No.

Class origins can determine tendencies, but they cannot by themselves, determine if a person can be revolutionary or not.

The human mind is not that mechanistic, and you know it.

[atlas]

Next on your reading list: Das Kapital!


Plan on spending a lot of time reading that one. I would first study all the past communist governments to see how they worked, and if they didn't, why.

[Red Dao]

First of all, I feel like Taboo Tongue is being a bit wordy. Ok, Ok, I used the word "Upper Middle Class" to describe my enviornment and income, I apologize. I just think that you need to chill a little, as it wasn't a big deal. I suppose I am a Bourgeois than, because I know that I am not a Proletariat. However, I am still taking my ideas, and trying to get other people to think the same way, or at least to open their minds.

Secondly, Floyce White, why exactly can I not become a Communist? I am from a Upper Class origiin , that means I can never be a Socialist? I openly support the socialist cause, and openly oppose the current system of goverment, and Capitalism as a whole. Why does this mean that I cannot become a socialist? I have no employees, no servants, no nothing. I like in a 4-bed room house, and am comfortable. I give away my own things so that they can benefit others. I cant be a communist because I come from a semi-wealthy background?

[Poum_1936]

Theres always a few ultra left nuts, dont worry about them so much.

[Zeruzo]

YOU JUST CANT BE A COMMUNIST DARNIT! CAUSE err... :unsure:

... IT IS VERY UN-MARXIST! HAH!

ok, that was spam... i'm sorry... i just couldn't resist.

[Taiga]

Originally posted by Floyce [email protected] 23 2006, 05:23 AM
Poor people are exploited and struggle to end exploitation. Rich people do as they please. Some rich people please to call themselves "communists" so they can infiltrate the struggle of their tenants and employees, and manipulate it to serve their narrow property interests.

Persons of upper-class family origin can never be communists.
I hope you are joking. Please say you do. Otherwise you are the biggest moron on the board.

[Rollo]

Taiga is right, you clearly don't know your marx floyce white. AFAIk marx was middle class, che guevara was pretty much middle class for where he lived.

[Inverted]

Can anyone reccomend some good works, and readings lists to get from beginner to advanced in Leftist knowledge, and revolution. Currently I'am reading about Che but would also like to expand all my knowledge since I'am also a beginner.

[Rollo]

Che's bigoraphy by jon lee anderson, bolivian diaries, guerilla warfare, marx complete worx ( haha get it marx worx I'm so funny ) a lenin biography would be good too.

[Honggweilo]

Being a middle class revolutionary with a social concience, willing to fight for the proletarian cause, is nothing to be ashamed of. Besides, although i do come from a working class enviorment, most of us on this forum are middle class on a global standard.

As ché said; every man who trembles at the sight of whatever form of injustice, is my comrade ;)

And ofcourse you can use you benefits from your class background (like higher education) to strengthen the revolutionary movement. Although i must say that it will be dificult to break a bit, if not totally, from your current class.. because its dificult to give op certain extreme luxuries and break from the bourgeois mindset, but if your really commited, that wont be a problem :)

And also a warm welcome comrade, we are glad to help you in any way

And another book i should recommend as a beginner is "about the tasks of the revolutionary youth" by lenin, its a good introduction to lenin's thought and leninism if your interested

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1903/sep/30b.htm

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 02:02 AM
Can anyone reccomend some good works, and readings lists to get from beginner to advanced in Leftist knowledge, and revolution. Currently I'am reading about Che but would also like to expand all my knowledge since I'am also a beginner.
The Communist Manifesto would be a good one, methinks. Or just talk to lots of people, and read anything that looks remotely interesting. I've learned just as much from interaction as reading.

[Wanted Man]

Ah well, it's not like communism is some sort of religious movement where you first have to throw all the "worldly" items away and become a reclusive monk or anything, otherwise you don't get into the "cool club". That would be silly. Your class is your relation to the means of production, not your personal possessions. Besides, it's better to use all that's available to you to make life, including revolutionary activity, easier and less time-consuming.

I, personally, do not fit into what would socially be known as "upper middle" class, as my father works as an archivist and my mother is a part-time teacher of disabled children so we can afford just a bit more. The town I live in is very posh though, wish I could live in the city, or even completely somewhere else in the country. :D

Anyway, If there's any party or other organisation in your area that appeals to you, you should contact them about what they're doing. Although of course the availability of any kind of activism greatly depends on where you live, maybe I can help you out with finding something good. But that also depends on where you live, I know more about Dutch parties(as that is where I live) than I know about American parties, and I know even less about parties in, say, Bangladesh. :P