Enemy? - To play with your mind

[F1DG3T]

heres an interesting concept

The only enemy in this world is in your mind it doesn't hold a gun to your head which is why you aren't scared of it.

[Reuben]

Heres an interesting idea: Your a twat.

The left has always been weakened, and potential revolutionaries diverted by non-materialists. By hippies and other such people who feel that the situation of the great mass of society can be mproved, not by acting collectively and if necessary forcefully to change their actual material conditions but in stead by changing the way they think by 'liberating their minds'. Unsuprisingly the pople who espouse uare usually in relatively comfortable poitions in material terms.

I can confidently tlll you that in the American and British armies, in the oppositional police force of Caracas venezuela, in the columns of Israeli soldiers collectively entire popualations, we have enough enemies who arent in our minds but exist in real terms as a means of defending exploitation.

Stop doing mental gymnastics have no bearing on the reality on the ground.

[Saint-Just]

That is an interesting idea Reuban.

F1DG3T, I do not know what your 'interesting concept' is. Quite possibly you were 'high' when you wrote this. I don't think most of us have some kind of enemy we think is real but really is only in our mind, but that we are not scared of it anyway because of the fact that it is only in our mind. Seemingly though we have not linked these two facts together and do not realise why we are not scared of this enemy.

What point are you trying to make anyway? and why did you start thinking about such a ridiculous, pointless and irrelevant concept. It took me some time to realise what your one sentence even meant. Although that was largely because you didn't use many of the grammatical rules of sentence structure that make English consistent and coherent.

[Nobody]

There can be no mental liberation from capitialism, only an armed revolt.

P.S.: Thats my avatar, I want it back for simplicilties sake. thanks.

[dopediana]

Quote: from Reuben on 2:34 pm on July 15, 2003
Heres an interesting idea: Your a twat.

The left has always been weakened, and potential revolutionaries diverted by non-materialists. By hippies and other such people who feel that the situation of the great mass of society can be mproved, not by acting collectively and if necessary forcefully to change their actual material conditions but in stead by changing the way they think by 'liberating their minds'. Unsuprisingly the pople who espouse uare usually in relatively comfortable poitions in material terms.

I can confidently tlll you that in the American and British armies, in the oppositional police force of Caracas venezuela, in the columns of Israeli soldiers collectively entire popualations, we have enough enemies who arent in our minds but exist in real terms as a means of defending exploitation.

Stop doing mental gymnastics have no bearing on the reality on the ground.




no reuben, i think you're very much wrong. how are you going to coerce people into fighting for their freedom if they don't believe in it? if they don't believe that they ought to be fighting for it? if they don't think fighting would make life better? you're going to take on the world? you and what army?

[Reuben]

Amaryllis, i do not deny that people must believe in change and that a campaign relating to how people think is important.

However the premise i was responding to was that 'the only real enemy' is in your mind, and what i was arguing is that changing the way one thinks is not itself sufficent to bring about emancipation if it is not acompanied by action directed not against a mental enemy but instead an actual enemy.

At no point did I say that I was exclusively in support of a physical struggle as the only thing whch had any use. The question i was responding to was not: 'Is there a point in tryig to affect the way peole think?'. The question was 'Is changing the way one thinks sufficient i itsself to bring about emancipation ?' and that was the question i answered.

(Edited by Reuben at 11:56 pm on July 16, 2003)

[F1DG3T]

i beg to differ you see, the concept is actually deaper than the fact that your enemies truely exist
every TV program you watch is properghanda every article you read is trying to stop you from making your own human conclusions you exist on a knowledge someone else has handed down to you, CHE had enemies but he was free he didn't stop becuase of the guns eventually he was stopped granted but he knew the risks when he started.

If you are scared of the "real guns of the imperial armies" you are likely to bottle and take a reduction in what you wanted for the sake of your life.

you can't be in a revoluton if you are scared of "guns" you can't make a decision in the interests of socialism and humans if you are scared of the other mans gun. The fact that gun has not been pointed at you yet you are scared of it would imply that the enemy allready lives in your mind, becuase you believe they are a threat to your existance. Where as they believe you are the threat.

and i though socialists were open minded

apologies for the grammar i accept it is a weak point but at least respect my mind

i wasn't high either if i was high it would have been even more bizarre

[Reuben]

ok this has gone off at a tandum.

FIDGE appears to be changing the original premise so as to make his argument acceptable.

The point about che guevara, is yes of course it was important for him and other Cubans to change he way theythought. Yet the point about the Cuban Revoluion is that the revolutionaries did not believe they could think there way to freedopm. They realised that there 'lierating their minds' was not in itself a means to an ends, but was simply a
prerequisit whhich allowed them to act collectively to affect their own material conditions and those of other cubans.

So going back to your origninal "argument" that 'the only real enemy is in your mind'. Che, im sure, realised the importance of changing the way one thinks, changing the way one percieves the world, but he did not see the 'enemy in his mind' as his only enemy. He recognised that regardless of how much one had liberated thir mind they would still suffer materialk and economic explotation until there actua extrnal conditions were changed.

[Reuben]

And really dont start talking about how someone is open minded and somebody is not.

If your point is worth making and you are convinced about it you should be abl to defend it as a point in itself rather simply resorting to saying 'your not being open minded'

I often find that people who take their ideas off into the realms of idiocy and illogicallity tend to kid themselves that the only reason people disagree with them is because they are not open minded enough or the are not 'deep' enough.

[Invader Zim]

Reuben stop bullying the newbi, anyway I agree with him. If you remove the brainwashing of the people then they will be far more open minded towards socialism. Right from a young age childern are watching Craptin Amerikkka saving the earth from the eveil people in the name of freedom and liberty. This premotes american idealism and makes them hostile to any change of traditional american values. Remove the brainwashing and remove the problem.

[Exploited Class]

ÕÒ²»µ½ß@‚€¾Wí“

ÄúËùÒªÕҵľWí“¿ÉÄÜÒѽ›±»ÒƳýÁË£¬¿ÉÄÜÊÇËüµÄÃû·QÒѽ› ׃¸ü£¬»ò•º•rŸo·¨Ê¹Óá£

Õˆ‡LÔ‡ˆÌÐÐÏÂÁЄÓ×÷£º

Èç¹ûÄúÊÇÔÚ [¾WÖ·] ÁÐæIÈë¾WÖ·£¬Õˆ´_ÕJ¾WÖ·µÄÆ´×ÖÊÇ·ñÕý´_.

[Ian]

The only enemy in this world is in your mind it doesn't hold a gun to your head which is why you aren't scared of it.

The only enemy in this world? I have plenty of enemies, not just one, and what the fuck are you talking about with the gun and stuff?

Ohh man I'm not even going to try, watching this guy is like watching a two car accident turn into a 12 car pile up, it just keeps getting uglier. I would echo Reuben's sentiments if I actually had the urge to write a scathing polemic against this, but I don't. Not worth it!

P.S. I'm plenty open-minded

[ComradeJunichi]

LOL, Ian we talked about this one earlier; anti-materialism to the fullest.

Fuck the capitalists, fuck the kids who bully me in school, fuck the guy who has a knife to my throat mugging me, I AM THE ENEMY!!!

[CompadreGuerrillera]

ok, after days of watching this topic,

WE ARE the ENEMIES!, well be holding the gun to their fucking head! Heres your fucking concept man!
HAHA

[Vinny Rafarino]

Quote: from the amaryllis on 11:44 pm on July 15, 2003

no reuben, i think you're very much wrong. how are you going to coerce people into fighting for their freedom if they don't believe in it? if they don't believe that they ought to be fighting for it? if they don't think fighting would make life better? you're going to take on the world? you and what army?


It does not take much to coerce anyone into fighting. People love violence. As long as there is a good leading vanguard to tend the sheep so they do not begin killing off each other then it is simple.

You young ones should relate to this; what happens in the schoolyard if someone screams "fight"? As we all know a crowd develops in the hopes someone will get thrashed.

The average IQ of a standard Yanquee/British citizen is 100. They would eat a shit sandwich if you told them everybody who anybody is eating them.

[elijahcraig]

It does not take much to coerce anyone into fighting. People love violence. As long as there is a good leading vanguard to tend the sheep so they do not begin killing off each other then it is simple.

You are an asshole.


We are not here to take power into the hands of the elite individuals dumbass, we are here to help the masses fight their oppression. Marxism means proletariat freeing themselves.

[F1DG3T]

To be fair i think there is alot of bullshit on theis site i was here about two years ago and it was the same youSocialists never evovle you are still prehistoric in your time when will you learn that history can only guide you it can't tell you how to deal wit the current times

keep arguing amongst yourselves you can't start a revolution if you can't decide who the enemy is. most of you couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery to be fair you sit here quoting history as if it makes a difference

Sorry for the bad quote but Reuben You clearly allready have a BULLET IN YOUR FUCKING HEAD

i don't love violence, its sad, its rubbish
If violence was a way forward we would be fighting

and not being funny but thats oppressive in its own way making your political stance bullshit

[Reuben]

How many non-sequitas can you spot in the above post people?

My favourie 'line of argument' is 'If violence was a way forward we would be fighting and not being funny but thats oppressive in its own way making your political stance bullshit'

Could you explain how the use of violence is necessarily oppressive. Could you explain to me how the decision bythousands of yugoslavians to militarily resist nazism made them 'oppressive'.

hve ou noticed thata fidget never actually addresses the argumnts being made he simply makes roclamations like 'your talking bulshit' 'your not open mnded' yoru ideas are prehistoric' 'you couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery'


Look you moron, when you address some of the arguments I and other socialists have put across on the last to pages you can stt making those incredibly funny comments about me havin a bullet in my head'.

[F1DG3T]

i see no argument to post against

i was making a statement about your So called socialist attitudes

OK violence is oppressive
if you have to use violence to get your way your are oppressing a weaker person because they gave into your violence

does that make sense to anyone it does to me

how can the use of force not be oppressive reuben?

when exactly is it necassary to use violence?

the Bullet in the head lol haha look it was reference to the original point on this thread which you have yet to justify why it is such a ridiculous statement all you have done is shown that you don't have an ability to be rational in your political thinking Call me idealistic but violence has never been and will never be the answer.

For leftism to work you must remove violence becuase
if you are violent you have a power over someone weaker and when you become angry you may be tempted to use violence to get what you want. That is greed, greed is a capitalist trate and human desire making the system you are trying to run as equal unbalanced and thus compronising the existance of your own political belief

the NAZIS were being oppressive and they were defending themselves true but could you tell me where they claim to be a perfect communist state

they don't i am talking from an opinion of socialism and communism and for it to exist violence can't exist.

could you tell me where it is justified to use a Gun when can i kill an man and it be ok please tell me when it is ok for another human to kill the other

and rueben most of the comments have been addressed its just appears that you have mis read my posts not to mention alot of the posts are you lot arguing amongst yourselves

lets have a look

Heres an interesting idea: Your a twat.

unqoute

nice that post was really asking me to answer questions

infact there was no question in your post

next my post

then

some random post still no question

then

no reuben, i think you're very much wrong. how are you going to coerce people into fighting for their freedom if they don't believe in it? if they don't believe that they ought to be fighting for it? if they don't think fighting would make life better? you're going to take on the world? you and what army?

wheres the question i should address i think you were challenged there.

then

you make a post and you said is there much point trying to changfe the way people think my answer is yes how else do you change racist pricks

and so on................................................ .

[ComradeJunichi]

ROFL, I'll just make a sideline note because I don't want to waste my time in the Stupidest Thread Ever.

The first post of this thread is ridiculous, anti-materialist bullshit. We all understand that, so I won't waste time on it.

Second, Fidget, I have no clue what the fuck you're saying. I stand beside comrade Reuben. Honestly, Reuben, I don't think you should waste your time on this.

Fidget, "our socialist attitudes"? What's wrong with our socialist attitudes? Are you even a socialist?

'Violence is oppressive', violence CAN be oppressive is the point we're getting at. You're saying we're closeminded (for not accepting dogmatic bullshit), yet you cannot open the doors for the links between the words Violence and Oppressive.

[F1DG3T]

I am too not going to comment on it its ridiculous that i have to keep repeating my self to different people

[cubist]

good thought shame about the pettyness

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from F1DG3T on 12:50 pm on July 21, 2003
I am too not going to comment on it its ridiculous that i have to keep repeating my self to different people


Rofl, we deserve an explanation for such stupidity of yours.

[CompadreGuerrillera]

um, Fidget, History is only important so that we can learn from our mistakes in the past, like how we lost the Spanish Civil War. etc.

History IS relevant now, in many scenarios, it is the same, just different times.

Anyways, for your information, WE Can plan things, look at the peace protests, many were organized by some kind or another socialist action type groups, reformists(but that doesnt really matter), and look at the success.

I wonder if you can plan anything fidget?

Huh?
Didnt have an answer to that did ya?
I dont expect you to.

IF your so serius, get the fuck off the computer with your psychological bullshit, and do something u lame peice of SHIT

sorry got a LITTLE out of control there, just my 2 cents