The philosophy of the Marquis de Sade.

[da_prole]

This guy was the epitome of badass. His philosophy is very enlightening as well. Man is governmed by his carnal nature, and he should ignore laws and morals to satisfy his own lust.

If there is no God, no hell, no right and wrong, no moral responsibility, no meaning or significance beyond your pleasure, then existence is meaningless. Nothing you do matters, others do not matter, and what you do with them--and to them--does not matter. Nihilism liberates. For the Sadean egotist, then, everything is permitted. Sade incessantly rationalized the most depraved and libertine of sexuality and indulgence, including every crime, such as cannibalism and murder.




Sade's philosophy flowed from his radical egotism, which led him to propound militant antitheism. (1) God's nonexistence reduces the universe to a purely materialist Nature, a self-running mechanism; "the perpetual motion of matter explains everything." (2) People are determinist machines, which annuls moral responsibility. You cannot help it, then, if you are sexually perverse or depraved. (3) There is no afterlife, so your conduct does not matter. (4) Merely the child of local custom, morality is relative to culture and geography, and therefore fictive. (5) Nature is our only ethical guide; humans are no more significant to Nature than insects. And since Nature uses matter from dead life forms to create new ones, crime, destruction, and death are necessary and pleasing to her. Therefore murder is good, and the mass murderer is the highest human type. (6)

Born isolated, the individual is solely important, with obligations to nobody and only selfish motivations. Each individual is pitted against all others. His only maxim is to "Enjoy myself, at no matter whose expense." (7) Man tends naturally to dominate others and inflict pain, which he enjoys. (8) Ordinary people are utilitarian objects, the playthings of the wealthy, powerful and godlike libertines, who are utterly unloving. (9) Beauty and innocence inspire only diabolical cruelty. Since materialism makes pleasure proportional to stimulus, the greater your cruelty, the greater your pleasure. (10) Maximum selfishness and cruelty are therefore the proper course.

A world that followed Sade would be a world in which evil rules the land, where the rich and powerful can do as they please, free to steal, rape and murder, to satisfy their lust. All that would bar them would be a counter attack by their intended victims. A world of gruesome barbarity, brutality and cruelty, social Darwinism writ large, a world not very different from the world of today.

Though most of you would probably hate him, maybe there's some hope left here. Anyone enjoy this amazing man's philosophy?

[Anti-Red]

No I do not like his philosophy. And as I have been pounding home for a long time. I am no religious conservative, I do not care what religion you follow, but there is no more dangerous a belief than absolute disbelief, and this is why. This is what atheism does to you. Not to say all atheists are bad, but with nobody to answer to, it can give license.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 19 2006, 11:07 PM
No I do not like his philosophy. And as I have been pounding home for a long time. I am no religious conservative, I do not care what religion you follow, but there is no more dangerous a belief than absolute disbelief, and this is why. This is what atheism does to you. Not to say all atheists are bad, but with nobody to answer to, it can give license.
Oh, so it's bad that Atheism and disregard for morality frees one's mind?

Such a response is expected from the weak.

[The Sloth]

"amazing," how?

the arbitrary moral values of an arbitrary man.

yes, how nice.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by Brooklyn-[email protected] 20 2006, 12:07 AM
"amazing," how?

the arbitrary moral values of an arbitrary man.

yes, how nice.
You have brought much enlightenment and conversation to the discussion.

[adenoid hynkel]

Originally posted by da_prole+Aug 20 2006, 03:08 AM--> (da_prole @ Aug 20 2006, 03:08 AM)
Anti-[email protected] 19 2006, 11:07 PM
No I do not like his philosophy. And as I have been pounding home for a long time. I am no religious conservative, I do not care what religion you follow, but there is no more dangerous a belief than absolute disbelief, and this is why. This is what atheism does to you. Not to say all atheists are bad, but with nobody to answer to, it can give license.
Oh, so it's bad that Atheism and disregard for morality frees one's mind?

Such a response is expected from the weak. [/b]
The fact is that Marquis de Sade show behind the moral facade of society..... He understood that ego is the hidden cause behind even the most seemingly selfless acts. He is also important, because he saw that religion, like abything else which distracts from the real world, is terribly detrimental to a person's fullfillment.

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.

[da_prole]

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
It is feasible and I desire it. No collectivism is needed.

[adenoid hynkel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 05:19 AM

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
It is feasible and I desire it. No collectivism is needed.
How old are you?

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Sade is an inspiration for freedom lovers everywhere, but a bit of a primitivist as I see it. I enjoy his ideas, however, especially those on religion. I am lost on Sade's morality. He might have had legitimate reason to act as he did, but, then again, his actions really weren't the way to achieve a progressive society. Cooperation and social contract theory are important.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by adenoid hynkel+Aug 20 2006, 01:22 AM--> (adenoid hynkel @ Aug 20 2006, 01:22 AM)
[email protected] 20 2006, 05:19 AM

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
It is feasible and I desire it. No collectivism is needed.
How old are you? [/b]
Excellent retort. I seriously can't argue with that. My age must have something to do with the fact that I reject your groupthink.

[adenoid hynkel]

Originally posted by da_prole+Aug 20 2006, 05:24 AM--> (da_prole @ Aug 20 2006, 05:24 AM)
Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 20 2006, 01:22 AM

[email protected] 20 2006, 05:19 AM

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
It is feasible and I desire it. No collectivism is needed.
How old are you?
Excellent retort. I seriously can't argue with that. My age must have something to do with the fact that I reject your groupthink. [/b]
Your age must have something to do with the fact that you think that a society which allows murder, rape and robbery is the ideal society.

[Xvall]

I am lost on Sade's morality. He might have had legitimate reason to act as he did, but, then again, his actions really weren't the way to achieve a progressive society.

I could be wrong, but if I recall correctly, Sade never did much other than write, so I'm not sure what actions he took other than expression.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by adenoid hynkel+Aug 20 2006, 01:25 AM--> (adenoid hynkel @ Aug 20 2006, 01:25 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 20 2006, 01:22 AM

[email protected] 20 2006, 05:19 AM

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
It is feasible and I desire it. No collectivism is needed.
How old are you?
Excellent retort. I seriously can't argue with that. My age must have something to do with the fact that I reject your groupthink.
Your age must have something to do with the fact that you think that a society which allows murder, rape and robbery is the ideal society. [/b]
No, it doesn't. Honest. I will believe such things reguardless of how long I've been on Earth.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by adenoid hynkel+Aug 20 2006, 12:25 AM--> (adenoid hynkel @ Aug 20 2006, 12:25 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 20 2006, 01:22 AM

[email protected] 20 2006, 05:19 AM

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
It is feasible and I desire it. No collectivism is needed.
How old are you?
Excellent retort. I seriously can't argue with that. My age must have something to do with the fact that I reject your groupthink.
Your age must have something to do with the fact that you think that a society which allows murder, rape and robbery is the ideal society. [/b]
I will go and guess that he was born on the 29th of November in the year of 1989. ;)

[da_prole]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood+Aug 20 2006, 01:30 AM--> (Fist of Blood @ Aug 20 2006, 01:30 AM)
Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 20 2006, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 20 2006, 01:22 AM

[email protected] 20 2006, 05:19 AM

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
It is feasible and I desire it. No collectivism is needed.
How old are you?
Excellent retort. I seriously can't argue with that. My age must have something to do with the fact that I reject your groupthink.
Your age must have something to do with the fact that you think that a society which allows murder, rape and robbery is the ideal society.
I will go and guess that he was born on the 29th of November in the year of 1989. ;) [/b]
NO WAY WUT DA FUX!???


I love you. :wub:

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by adenoid hynkel+Aug 20 2006, 05:08 AM--> (adenoid hynkel @ Aug 20 2006, 05:08 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 03:08 AM

Anti-[email protected] 19 2006, 11:07 PM
No I do not like his philosophy. And as I have been pounding home for a long time. I am no religious conservative, I do not care what religion you follow, but there is no more dangerous a belief than absolute disbelief, and this is why. This is what atheism does to you. Not to say all atheists are bad, but with nobody to answer to, it can give license.
Oh, so it's bad that Atheism and disregard for morality frees one's mind?

Such a response is expected from the weak.
The fact is that Marquis de Sade show behind the moral facade of society..... He understood that ego is the hidden cause behind even the most seemingly selfless acts. He is also important, because he saw that religion, like abything else which distracts from the real world, is terribly detrimental to a person's fullfillment.

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive. [/b]
Marquis de Sade was an utopian socialist.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by Marmot+Aug 20 2006, 01:49 AM--> (Marmot @ Aug 20 2006, 01:49 AM)
Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 20 2006, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 03:08 AM

Anti-[email protected] 19 2006, 11:07 PM
No I do not like his philosophy. And as I have been pounding home for a long time. I am no religious conservative, I do not care what religion you follow, but there is no more dangerous a belief than absolute disbelief, and this is why. This is what atheism does to you. Not to say all atheists are bad, but with nobody to answer to, it can give license.
Oh, so it's bad that Atheism and disregard for morality frees one's mind?

Such a response is expected from the weak.
The fact is that Marquis de Sade show behind the moral facade of society..... He understood that ego is the hidden cause behind even the most seemingly selfless acts. He is also important, because he saw that religion, like abything else which distracts from the real world, is terribly detrimental to a person's fullfillment.

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
Marquis de Sade was an utopian socialist. [/b]
He also stated that laws against muder should not exist as long as the State advocates and participates in such activities. And we all know that States always murder.

He hated Laws, as well. And I agree with him.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by da_prole+Aug 20 2006, 12:56 AM--> (da_prole @ Aug 20 2006, 12:56 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 20 2006, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 03:08 AM

Anti-[email protected] 19 2006, 11:07 PM
No I do not like his philosophy. And as I have been pounding home for a long time. I am no religious conservative, I do not care what religion you follow, but there is no more dangerous a belief than absolute disbelief, and this is why. This is what atheism does to you. Not to say all atheists are bad, but with nobody to answer to, it can give license.
Oh, so it's bad that Atheism and disregard for morality frees one's mind?

Such a response is expected from the weak.
The fact is that Marquis de Sade show behind the moral facade of society..... He understood that ego is the hidden cause behind even the most seemingly selfless acts. He is also important, because he saw that religion, like abything else which distracts from the real world, is terribly detrimental to a person's fullfillment.

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
Marquis de Sade was an utopian socialist.
He also stated that laws against muder should not exist as long as the State advocates and participates in such activities. And we all know that States always murder. [/b]
If the state didn't murder than would he accept laws that made it illegal to murder?

[Avtomatov]

da prole: you just want to rape women because they wont give it to you willingly.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:00 AM
da prole: you just want to rape women because they wont give it to you willingly.
Meaningless insults over the Internet that rely on knowing the person outside of a message board will never get old, will they?

[da_prole]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood+Aug 20 2006, 01:59 AM--> (Fist of Blood @ Aug 20 2006, 01:59 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 20 2006, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 03:08 AM

Anti-[email protected] 19 2006, 11:07 PM
No I do not like his philosophy. And as I have been pounding home for a long time. I am no religious conservative, I do not care what religion you follow, but there is no more dangerous a belief than absolute disbelief, and this is why. This is what atheism does to you. Not to say all atheists are bad, but with nobody to answer to, it can give license.
Oh, so it's bad that Atheism and disregard for morality frees one's mind?

Such a response is expected from the weak.
The fact is that Marquis de Sade show behind the moral facade of society..... He understood that ego is the hidden cause behind even the most seemingly selfless acts. He is also important, because he saw that religion, like abything else which distracts from the real world, is terribly detrimental to a person's fullfillment.

This does not mean that the society which Sade dreamed about is feasible or desired; a society without any laws or rules, at which murder, rape, robbery are allowed. A society needs to have some collectivism in order to survive.
Marquis de Sade was an utopian socialist.
He also stated that laws against muder should not exist as long as the State advocates and participates in such activities. And we all know that States always murder.
If the state didn't murder than would he accept laws that made it illegal to murder? [/b]
Probably. He's just looking for a little consistency from hypocritical entities such as the State and religion. But we all know that a State being established with no bloodshed is impossible.

Oh well. The pleasure-and-decadence philosophy seems to work quite well, especially since our existence here is utterly meaningless.

[bcbm]

He also stated that laws against muder should not exist as long as the State advocates and participates in such activities. And we all know that States always murder.

He hated Laws, as well. And I agree with him.

Yes, its inconvenient having the state breathing down your neck when you're trying to kidnap a half-dozen young girls at your country estate in the winter and engage in them in all sorts of humiliating depravity, willingly or not.

Or when you're cumming into goblets, and yelling at God to strike you down and calling him a motherfucker in front of prostitutes whom you've stuffed with communion wafers.

Or whipping and cumming on to the bloody back sides of a woman you've hired to be your servant.

Or fucking your way through everything that moves in Paris via orgies.

Or poisoning prostitutes during bisexual orgies.

Or writing books of social commentary also filled with pretty much every kinky, creepy, gross or degrading thing you can think of, and more.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 20 2006, 02:48 AM

He also stated that laws against muder should not exist as long as the State advocates and participates in such activities. And we all know that States always murder.

He hated Laws, as well. And I agree with him.

Yes, its inconvenient having the state breathing down your neck when you're trying to kidnap a half-dozen young girls at your country estate in the winter and engage in them in all sorts of humiliating depravity, willingly or not.

Or when you're cumming into goblets, and yelling at God to strike you down and calling him a motherfucker in front of prostitutes whom you've stuffed with communion wafers.

Or whipping and cumming on to the bloody back sides of a woman you've hired to be your servant.

Or fucking your way through everything that moves in Paris via orgies.

Or poisoning prostitutes during bisexual orgies.

Or writing books of social commentary also filled with pretty much every kinky, creepy, gross or degrading thing you can think of, and more.
Fuck yes.

[tambourine_man]

A world that followed Sade would be a world in which evil rules the land, where the rich and powerful can do as they please, free to steal, rape and murder, to satisfy their lust. All that would bar them would be a counter attack by their intended victims. A world of gruesome barbarity, brutality and cruelty, social Darwinism writ large, a world not very different from the world of today.

sure the marquis de sade's philosphy makes a lot of sense and is one that i can agree with a lot
unfortunately you seem to believe that in the 'world of today' his philosophy of total unrestrained self gratification can be achieved when in reality there is nothing further from the truth...
late capitalism is certainly no "end all be all" of human civilization, cannot allow for the kind of freedom youre talking about because it is based on a social relationship and dominant mode of collective expression that automatically regulates individual expression thereby inverting life and making us all, even the "rich and powerful," pathetic slaves..
maybe there's some hope left here, but the fact that you think an objective "rich and powerful" can really constitute authentic subjective self-expression/gratification shows that you're hopelessly convinced.

[red team]

How hedonistic are you though? Are you hedonistic enough to pleasure seek without caring about your financial empire. I'm just making the assumption that you're financially well off enough to be a care-free player since most proles have to worry about other more important things.

Although it should be assumed that rich hedonists who's only goal in life is selfish pleasure seeking should be our valuable "allies" among the rich, since they don't get in the way of us taking over to run society for the benefit of everybody, but usually they're not hedonistic and they care very much about they're multibillion dollar fortune even if they can't blow that multibillion dollars on selfish pleasure seeking in their entire lifetime. Rich hedonist are such hypocrites though.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 04:26 AM


A world that followed Sade would be a world in which evil rules the land, where the rich and powerful can do as they please, free to steal, rape and murder, to satisfy their lust. All that would bar them would be a counter attack by their intended victims. A world of gruesome barbarity, brutality and cruelty, social Darwinism writ large, a world not very different from the world of today.

sure the marquis de sade's philosphy makes a lot of sense and is one that i can agree with a lot
unfortunately you seem to believe that in the 'world of today' his philosophy of total unrestrained self gratification can be achieved when in reality there is nothing further from the truth...
late capitalism is certainly no "end all be all" of human civilization, cannot allow for the kind of freedom youre talking about because it is based on a social relationship and dominant mode of collective expression that automatically regulates individual expression thereby inverting life and making us all, even the "rich and powerful," pathetic slaves..
maybe there's some hope left here, but the fact that you think an objective "rich and powerful" can really constitute authentic subjective self-expression/gratification shows that you're hopelessly convinced.
I wish my name was "tambourine man".

[Rollo]

I rest my case, you are definetely pre-early teen and have the intelligence of a glass of water.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 04:50 AM
I rest my case, you are definetely pre-early teen and have the intelligence of a glass of water.
Since water sustains all life and is vital for any intelligence in the first place, I will take that as a compliment.



Kthx.

[Rollo]

You're vital to intelligence because your stupidity makes the rest of us look a lot smarter.

[da_prole]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 10:17 AM
You're vital to intelligence because your stupidity makes the rest of us look a lot smarter.
Keep telling yourself that.

[rouchambeau]

I am no religious conservative, I do not care what religion you follow, but there is no more dangerous a belief than absolute disbelief, and this is why. This is what atheism does to you. Not to say all atheists are bad, but with nobody to answer to, it can give license.

One can follow Kantian ethics and yet not believe in any god.

[Cryotank Screams]

I love his philosophy, I love his work, and he is my favorite author.

Hail Hedonism!

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 04:33 AM
You have brought much enlightenment and conversation to the discussion.
any idiot can declare a moral code, and write extensively about it. and do you know why? because there's no one in this world to tell him that his code is "wrong" -- indeed, such questions are far beyond logical analysis.

so, the fact that you consider de sade "amazing" is a bit much, if you ask me. he's no more amazing, on an ethical level, than hitler, karl marx, thich quang duc, immanuel kant, leibniz, or your simple, everyday serial killer.

[Loknar]

If there is no God, no hell, no right and wrong, no moral responsibility, no meaning or significance beyond your pleasure, then existence is meaningless. Nothing you do matters, others do not matter, and what you do with them--and to them--does not matter.

The classic sign of a sociopath.

Ive read about this guy, and he was a fucking sicko. Even by modern standards he'd be labeled as a sick bastard.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 07:29 PM

If there is no God, no hell, no right and wrong, no moral responsibility, no meaning or significance beyond your pleasure, then existence is meaningless. Nothing you do matters, others do not matter, and what you do with them--and to them--does not matter.

The classic sign of a sociopath.

Ive read about this guy, and he was a fucking sicko. Even by modern standards he'd be labeled as a sick bastard.
Well of course, it isn't your run of the mill sick bastards who get an entire set of ideas named after them!

[ichneumon]

Has anyone else here read "The Persecution and Assassination of Jean-Paul Marat as Performed by the Inmates of the Asylum of Charenton Under the Direction of the Marquis de Sade"? It was part of my European Socialist Lit class, but I barely remember it. It just might be germane to this.

Summary:

Marat/Sade on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marat/Sade)

[hedonist]

A world that followed Sade would be a world in which evil rules the land, where the rich and powerful can do as they please, free to steal, rape and murder, to satisfy their lust. All that would bar them would be a counter attack by their intended victims. A world of gruesome barbarity, brutality and cruelty, social Darwinism writ large, a world not very different from the world of today.

Awesome! I too am an admirer of De Sade. Although I consider Philosophy of the Bedroom awfully lame, I must profess some admiration for 120 days of Sodom. An excellent read.

Indeed, De Sade expounded an intereting social darwinist political philosophy described in the first several chapters of 120 days of sodom, by which he reasoned social darwinism the most natural system extant. Lust for Art's sake I think Oscar Wilde would have said. Fortunately, we have some political rulership in the United States and elsewhere returning us to just such a society. I wish them luck.