Republicans happy about terrorist attack [Archive]

theraven

22nd August 2006, 01:38

Originally posted by Krypto-[email protected] 21 2006, 08:18 PM

there is nothing there that remotly says repubclians are happy about terror attacks. they are happy about STOPPING them however.

Remove your imperialist ass out of the Middle East and cut off all ties to Israel if you want terrorism to stop. Israel is a big boy and it can take care of itself.

move our imperlaist ass out of the middle east? well if they didnt have oil we would, however we need oil, they have it so we have o be ivovnled there

israel is a big boy, surrouend by a lot biggerboys who want to hurt them. htey are allies to america so we support them. thats what friedns do

Seriously, are you one of those idiots that believe that Al-Qaeda bombed the WTC out of hatred of "America's freedom and values"????

If it was out of pure hatred of liberal democracy and capitalism, then why don't they bomb Canada or maybe even Sweden?

I belive they dislike our civlizaiotn in general and wish to impose their religous laws on us. its not realy up for dispute, as they say it thesmlves

PS they did try to bomb canada

Krypto-Communist

22nd August 2006, 04:46

move our imperlaist ass out of the middle east? well if they didnt have oil we would, however we need oil, they have it so we have o be ivovnled there

Ahhh, so it is about oil after all? When will the president be announcing this breakthrough?

israel is a big boy, surrouend by a lot biggerboys who want to hurt them. htey are allies to america so we support them. thats what friedns do

gaagaagaa googoo

Mee tury wto spaek nniii your langaguageagae.

Couldn't resist.

Nobody believes that any of the nations in the middle east are a credible military threat to anyone. Saudi Arabia, Israel and Kuwait even went as far to say that Iraq wasn't even a military threat to their respective nations but the USA did.

Doesn't that strike you as kinda sad?

I belive they dislike our civlizaiotn in general and wish to impose their religous laws on us. its not realy up for dispute, as they say it thesmlves

That may be true but it isn't the reason why they blew up the trade towers.

Go read about the Gulf War and as to why Saudi Arabia and Kuwait looked towards the USA to settle Saddam. That was the root cause to bin Laden's anti-Americanism.

He and his "holy warriors" wanted to stave off the Iraqis because he saw Saddam as a "fake Muslim" and it was a bigger slap in the face when the USA never left Muslim holy land.

And when I say "read about it", please don't consult Oliver North's interpretation.

PS they did try to bomb canada

When?

theraven

22nd August 2006, 06:04

Ahhh, so it is about oil after all? When will the president be announcing this breakthrough?

what breakthrough? that oil is importnat to the us?

Nobody believes that any of the nations in the middle east are a credible military threat to anyone. Saudi Arabia, Israel and Kuwait even went as far to say that Iraq wasn't even a military threat to their respective nations but the USA did.

Doesn't that strike you as kinda sad?

what are you talking about? iraq wasn't much of a convneiotnal military threat at this point, but they had been 10 years ago. and irans military is pretty good and their army hezbollah.

That may be true but it isn't the reason why they blew up the trade towers.

Go read about the Gulf War and as to why Saudi Arabia and Kuwait looked towards the USA to settle Saddam. That was the root cause to bin Laden's anti-Americanism.

He and his "holy warriors" wanted to stave off the Iraqis because he saw Saddam as a "fake Muslim" and it was a bigger slap in the face when the USA never left Muslim holy land.

And when I say "read about it", please don't consult Oliver North's interpretation.

1) so why did they blow up the trade towers?

2) radical muslims preface the gulf war by about 1000 years

3) I'm sorry bin laden was upset the US had to defend saudi arabia...

When?

last year or the year before, it was all over the news.

Zero

22nd August 2006, 07:28

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")what breakthrough? that oil is importnat to the us?[/b]

No, the breakthrough that the war isn't about "Liberating the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran... err... just Afghanistan and Iraq from their terrible dictatorships and deliver them to a perfect democracy laden with company intrest groups controling policy."

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")what are you talking about? iraq wasn't much of a convneiotnal military threat at this point, but they had been 10 years ago. and irans military is pretty good and their army hezbollah. [/b]

10 years ago? You mean when George Bush Sr. was arming the "Freedom Fighter" Osama Bin Laden? Heck, the USA were allies with Sadam; in fact during the period when we were allied with Saddam he was doing the brunt of his illegal executions.

We're "delivering the people from their puppet governments" alright :lol:.

Ohh, by the way, Hezbollah has nothing to do with Iraq, that is the previous insurgent group -- now national army of -- Lebanon.

("theraven")1) so why did they blow up the trade towers?[/b][/quote]
9/11 Loose Change (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7218920724339766288&q=loose+change), Who Killed John Oniel (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4755449627173127935) (This one has about a half-hour of fluf in the begining.)

"theraven"@
PS they did try to bomb canada
So do you mean this (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/04/canada.terror/index.html) case? Let me quote a more relevent part of the article...

"CNN.com"
"These are absolutely vague, oblique charges," he said. "Not one single shred of evidence was presented to the clients in court and they won't release the alleged information to us."

Galati identified his clients as Ahmad Ghany, 22, and Abdel Halim, 30. He said Ghany was a Canadian-born graduate of McMaster University with no criminal history.

And he questioned the timing of the arrests, saying they came one week before the Canadian supreme court was to hear a case involving how evidence was heard in anti-terrorism cases.

"I believe these men are being rounded up as part of a political move to affect the judges," Galati said.

Another attorney, Answer Farooq, said he was representing five of the suspects and had met with them briefly, but had not yet seen detailed evidence or charges.

A U.S. counterterrorism official said some of the suspects in Canada, as well as the two arrested in the United States, had communications with suspected terrorists overseas -- including some taken into custody last fall in Britain. The counterterrorism official confirmed information originally reported by the Los Angeles Times.

And FBI spokesman Richard Kolko said Saturday that some of the Canadian suspects had been in contact with two men arrested in Georgia who were accused of videotaping buildings in Washington, including the Capitol and the World Bank headquarters. But Kolko said, "There is no current outstanding threat to any targets on U.S. soil emanating from this case."

So these muslem men who have no record of criminal activity, who just immigrated to the country a week prior (fresh in security databases), and have no present evidence against them are being tried on charges that haven't even been given to the defense attourneys?

Right. Sounds like a ordinary terrorist attack to me :rolleyes: . Thats not even including the credit given to the FBI for these tourists and their videotape.

theraven

22nd August 2006, 07:48

No, the breakthrough that the war isn't about "Liberating the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran... err... just Afghanistan and Iraq from their terrible dictatorships and deliver them to a perfect democracy laden with company intrest groups controling policy."

I'd argue the war is mostly about installing stablity to the region not about having the oil companies run the government. they dont need to. they jsut need to have a stable sane government.

10 years ago? You mean when George Bush Sr. was arming the "Freedom Fighter" Osama Bin Laden? Heck, the USA were allies with Sadam; in fact during the period when we were allied with Saddam he was doing the brunt of his illegal executions.

bush and reagan were playing iraq and iran off each other so as to keep either form controlling to much area

We're "delivering the people from their puppet governments" alright laugh.gif.

huh?

Ohh, by the way, Hezbollah has nothing to do with Iraq, that is the previous insurgent group -- now national army of -- Lebanon.

indeed, hezbollah is part of IraN not IraQ

9/11 Loose Change, Who Killed John Oniel (This one has about a half-hour of fluf in the begining.)

the first one was rebuked by a bunch of intellegetn people and has glaring gaps including where all the people on those real flights went if they used miltiary planes intead

the second one is a nutso movie with the descirption

This video connects the dots on how zionists who stole USA government and media deal drugs worldwide and started 911 so they enslave people world wide ...

hard to take them seriusly....

So these muslem men who have no record of criminal activity, who just immigrated to the country a week prior (fresh in security databases), and have no present evidence against them are being tried on charges that haven't even been given to the defense attourneys?

Right. Sounds like a ordinary terrorist attack to me rolleyes.gif . Thats not even including the credit given to the FBI for these tourists and their videotape.

why am i not suprsied..

so because they failed and their lawyer is making acucsatiosn aginst the proseuction for being vague it must be political?

Zero

22nd August 2006, 08:43

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")I'd argue the war is mostly about installing stablity to the region not about having the oil companies run the government. they dont need to. they jsut need to have a stable sane government.[/b]
Stability? The country is on the brink of civil war. I bet you that the moment we pull out the entire "governmental" structure will collapse. I doubt there will be a difference in 10, or 20 years either. Not that I want a Theocratic or Dictitorial government in there as before, but rebuilding countries isn't exactly something we have very much practice in.

What needs to happen is that we need to obtain the help of every 1st world country to install a police force, and stimulate their economy enough to help rebuild infrastructure, and create a national healthcare, education, and unemployment net to educate and train the working/non-working Islamic proletariat. By doing this hopefully the radicalism will be reduced, though I've never been to the Middle East, so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert.

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")bush and reagan were playing iraq and iran off each other so as to keep either form controlling to much area[/b]

And yet USA uses the pretext of "liberating the people of Iraq from Sadam" to justify taking the oil?

("theraven")huh?[/b][/quote]
Nevermind.

("theraven")indeed, hezbollah is part of IraN not IraQ[/b][/quote]
Again,
("Zero")Hezbollah has nothing to do with Iraq, that is the previous insurgent group -- now national army of -- Lebanon.[/b][/quote]

("theraven")the first one was rebuked by a bunch of intellegetn people and has glaring gaps including where all the people on those real flights went if they used miltiary planes intead[/b][/quote]
Fine, however what these various 'anti-9/11 Truth Movement' people cant address is the put options placed on United Airlines and American Airlines, the molten steel at the base of the twin towers, and the lack of real damage to the Pentagon. Muchless the fact that the supposed hijackers are mostly still reported as alive in different countries.

("theraven")the second one is a nutso movie with the descirption[/b][/quote]
Ahh, what a great analysis and critique of the movie; read the description, and post. Watch it first before you dismiss it outright. Once you get past all the fluf at the begining its actually a really informative movie. Reguardless if the creators had a bit of fun with it :lol: .

("theraven")hard to take them seriusly....[/b][/quote]
Watch it before you discredit it please ;) .

("theraven")why am i not suprsied..

so because they failed and their lawyer is making acucsatiosn aginst the proseuction for being vague it must be political?[/b][/quote]

It's not the prosecution that is vague, its the entire case.

"CNN.com"@
"These are absolutely vague, oblique charges," he said. "Not one single shred of evidence was presented to the clients in court and they won't release the alleged information to us."

"CNN.com"
Another attorney, Answer Farooq, said he was representing five of the suspects and had met with them briefly, but had not yet seen detailed evidence or charges.

theraven

22nd August 2006, 10:10

Stability? The country is on the brink of civil war. I bet you that the moment we pull out the entire "governmental" structure will collapse. I doubt there will be a difference in 10, or 20 years either. Not that I want a Theocratic or Dictitorial government in there as before, but rebuilding countries isn't exactly something we have very much practice in.

What needs to happen is that we need to obtain the help of every 1st world country to install a police force, and stimulate their economy enough to help rebuild infrastructure, and create a national healthcare, education, and unemployment net to educate and train the working/non-working Islamic proletariat. By doing this hopefully the radicalism will be reduced, though I've never been to the Middle East, so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert.

ther are amny ways we can go about creating stabitliy. the best would nto be a socalist governemtn that will cause stagantaion in the economy

And yet USA uses the pretext of "liberating the people of Iraq from Sadam" to justify taking the oil?

no oil is being taken....

Again,

again we are discussing IRAN not IRAQ. two seperate coutnires

Fine, however what these various 'anti-9/11 Truth Movement' people cant address is the put options placed on United Airlines and American Airlines, the molten steel at the base of the twin towers, and the lack of real damage to the Pentagon. Muchless the fact that the supposed hijackers are mostly still reported as alive in different countries.

1) why would they need to expalin an investment move?

2) some of the steel from the top fell down...

3) you mean peolw ith the same name are alive...you know on facebook there are 5 other guys with my name?

Ahh, what a great analysis and critique of the movie; read the description, and post. Watch it first before you dismiss it outright. Once you get past all the fluf at the begining its actually a really informative movie. Reguardless if the creators had a bit of fun with it laugh.gif .

i watched loose change once thats enough conspaicy garbage i've waste dmy life on. the desicprtion is what the makers wnated thus its an indicano of the plot o fth emovie and sicne i find those theories ridiclulosu along the same lines that alines rule the world..im gonna say no.

It's not the prosecution that is vague, its the entire case.

so says the defense attorney....

theraven

22nd August 2006, 10:12

PS if you wish to contien the "9/11 was a cia/zionsist/nazi remnant/alien plot" debate can we make it a seperate thread?

Zero

22nd August 2006, 11:52

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")ther are amny ways we can go about creating stabitliy. the best would nto be a socalist governemtn that will cause stagantaion in the economy[/b]
Did I say a explicitly socialist government? The people of the Middle East do not have the internal infrastructure for a Socialist economy. Therefore they require somewhat of a mixed economy to build infrastructure quickly, plus safety nets to employ their unemployed (in some parts reaching 65-70% of a city.) From there I suppose its up to the people of the middle east.

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")no oil is being taken....[/b]
Iraq & Our Energy Future (http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/philligr.html)

("theraven")again we are discussing IRAN not IRAQ. two seperate coutnires [/b][/quote]
And I was trying to tell you that Hezbollah is not affiliated with Iran, or Iraq in any way!

("theraven")1) why would they need to expalin an investment move?[/b][/quote]

http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html

Especially this line right here...
("hereinreality.com")In the case of at least one of these trades -- which has left a $2.5 million prize unclaimed -- the firm used to place the “put options” on United Airlines stock was, until 1998, managed by the man who is now in the number three Executive Director position at the Central Intelligence Agency.[/b][/quote]

("theraven")2) some of the steel from the top fell down...[/b][/quote]
Even if what you said was true, it is not physically possible. Steel melts around 2750°F. Kerosine (Jet Fuel) burns at 800° to 1500°F. Some people believe that combustable meterials like paper, rugs, and wood fueled the fire up to 2800 degrees... but I have a hard time believing that.

("theraven")3) you mean peolw ith the same name are alive...you know on facebook there are 5 other guys with my name?[/b][/quote] Could be an honest mistake, or it could be a snatch in the dark. Who knows.

"theraven"@
i watched loose change once thats enough conspaicy garbage i've waste dmy life on. the desicprtion is what the makers wnated thus its an indicano of the plot o fth emovie and sicne i find those theories ridiclulosu along the same lines that alines rule the world..im gonna say no.
Who says we dont rule the world? :ph34r:

But in all seriousness, don't knock a movie before you see it.

"theraven"
so says the defense attorney....
And generally when you are trying to defend someone it is good to be able to know something about the case. <_<

theraven

22nd August 2006, 17:30

Did I say a explicitly socialist government? The people of the Middle East do not have the internal infrastructure for a Socialist economy. Therefore they require somewhat of a mixed economy to build infrastructure quickly, plus safety nets to employ their unemployed (in some parts reaching 65-70% of a city.) From there I suppose its up to the people of the middle east.

like i said there are pelnty of things we can do-the point was that saddam was a destablzing factor.

Iraq & Our Energy Future

let me reprhase is it-no oil is being stolen.

And I was trying to tell you that Hezbollah is not affiliated with Iran, or Iraq in any way!

you did it while mneitoniong only iraq, and hezbollah si very associted with iran. It is funded, tiraned and armed by iran.

QUOTE ("theraven")

http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html

Especially this line right here...
QUOTE ("hereinreality.com")
In the case of at least one of these trades -- which has left a $2.5 million prize unclaimed -- the firm used to place the “put options” on United Airlines stock was, until 1998, managed by the man who is now in the number three Executive Director position at the Central Intelligence Agency.

there are several possiblites here

1) the guy your refering to wasn't in the CIA at the time of the attackk

2) the manager doesnt make all the investments

3) if the guy had been he might have heard somehinthg that made him think something with airplanes woudl go bad-aka some fore knwoeldnge may have eixsited but not enough that could have prvented the attack

4) even if they ahd had some fore knwoeldge thats not proof of complicity, just proof of stupidity.

QUOTE ("theraven")
2) some of the steel from the top fell down...

Even if what you said was true, it is not physically possible. Steel melts around 2750°F. Kerosine (Jet Fuel) burns at 800° to 1500°F. Some people believe that combustable meterials like paper, rugs, and wood fueled the fire up to 2800 degrees... but I have a hard time believing that.

the steal is liqid at 2750, it starts to bend and melt at muhc less

QUOTE ("theraven")
3) you mean peolw ith the same name are alive...you know on facebook there are 5 other guys with my name?
Could be an honest mistake, or it could be a snatch in the dark. Who knows.

ocams razor says...probably jsut have the same name.

QUOTE ("theraven")
i watched loose change once thats enough conspaicy garbage i've waste dmy life on. the desicprtion is what the makers wnated thus its an indicano of the plot o fth emovie and sicne i find those theories ridiclulosu along the same lines that alines rule the world..im gonna say no.

Who says we dont rule the world? ph34r.gif

But in all seriousness, don't knock a movie before you see it.

i habve no intention of watching that movie bro. it way to long and i have enough to do without watching some shitty movie.

And generally when you are trying to defend someone it is good to be able to know something about the case. dry.gif

...yea obviusly. however generally the defsne wants to potray the proseuction as weak and lacking enough evidince, esp in a high profile case. they do this to try to get future jurors to side with them.

Zero

22nd August 2006, 20:43

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")let me reprhase is it-no oil is being stolen.[/b]

Originally posted by "Iraq & Our Energy Future"+--> ("Iraq & Our Energy Future")Oil fields were the first places in Iraq to be occupied by the U.S. and U.K. troops in the first hours of the 2003 war. Commanders said the move was to protect the wells, but many Iraqi citizens and other people around the world are suspicious that American and British companies will gain the first oil concessions in the new Iraq. Oil is not the only reason for this war, but as MSNBC observes, "neither is it irrelevant." In the words of Grant Goodman, the 2001 EPA Local Entrepreneur Award Winner: "Let's start with national security--the billions and billions we waste dancing around the issue, protecting those pipelines, invading Iraq, doing whatever else we're doing in the Middle East. It all gets down to continuing the flow of oil to this country."[/b]

("theraven")you did it while mneitoniong only iraq, and hezbollah si very associted with iran. It is funded, tiraned and armed by iran.[/b][/quote]
Not really, It is "funded, trained, and armed" by China, Russia, Syria, and Iran. Though most of the training comes from inside.

("theraven")1) the guy your refering to wasn't in the CIA at the time of the attackk

2) the manager doesnt make all the investments

3) if the guy had been he might have heard somehinthg that made him think something with airplanes woudl go bad-aka some fore knwoeldnge may have eixsited but not enough that could have prvented the attack

4) even if they ahd had some fore knwoeldge thats not proof of complicity, just proof of stupidity.[/b][/quote]

1) He is in the CIA, and has been since the time of the attack according to this article.

2) Your right, however he does decide who to invest in heavily.

3) And this put war just happened to occur a few days before the attack?

4) Or proof of treason, condoned slaughter, and all-around fuck-wittery. Anyone who could rationalise themselves making 2 million dollars off of the deaths of 3000 innocent people... Ohh what I wouldn't do to them.

("theraven")the steal is liqid at 2750, it starts to bend and melt at muhc less[/b][/quote]
That doesn't explain the building falling in near-exact free-fall without harming any buildings around it. Except of course WTC 7, which caught fire from falling debris? :huh: I have yet to figure out how multiple fires can occour inside of a building from falling debris. Makes no sense to me.

"theraven"@
i habve no intention of watching that movie bro. it way to long and i have enough to do without watching some shitty movie.
Alright, then don't attempt to discredit it.

"theraven"
...yea obviusly. however generally the defsne wants to potray the proseuction as weak and lacking enough evidince, esp in a high profile case. they do this to try to get future jurors to side with them.
Generally, yes. However when you are arrested and brought to court you generally have evidence against you.

theraven

22nd August 2006, 21:14

Oil fields were the first places in Iraq to be occupied by the U.S. and U.K. troops in the first hours of the 2003 war. Commanders said the move was to protect the wells, but many Iraqi citizens and other people around the world are suspicious that American and British companies will gain the first oil concessions in the new Iraq. Oil is not the only reason for this war, but as MSNBC observes, "neither is it irrelevant." In the words of Grant Goodman, the 2001 EPA Local Entrepreneur Award Winner: "Let's start with national security--the billions and billions we waste dancing around the issue, protecting those pipelines, invading Iraq, doing whatever else we're doing in the Middle East. It all gets down to continuing the flow of oil to this country.

so us companies will operate the oil fields, they or russian or french companes would be anyway. whats your point?

Not really, It is "funded, trained, and armed" by China, Russia, Syria, and Iran. Though most of the training comes from inside.

no, the funding coemf rom iran almost exclusvly. iran buys its weaopsn from russia and china and syria plays middle man by funneling the arms across the border. If i wasn't doing a garage sale prep today I'd find the links regarding iran and hezbollahs close ties. Hezbollah borders on a wing of the iranina military, and most of the early training (ie in the early 80s) as well as any advancine dtraining was done in iran.

1) He is in the CIA, and has been since the time of the attack according to this article.

You can't have a private and public sector jobs, at least not two as high up as that. he was either the manager of the stock company or the 3rd hihest person int e cia.

2) Your right, however he does decide who to invest in heavily.

He does have influnce, but any major company has many peopel who will do that.

3) And this put war just happened to occur a few days before the attack?

he could have had info a long the lines of "in mid septemeber their will be a hijacking". tradtioanlly (pre-911) hijckings invovled the terroists taking over the plane, and making demands. not using the palnes as weapons.

4) Or proof of treason, condoned slaughter, and all-around fuck-wittery. Anyone who could rationalise themselves making 2 million dollars off of the deaths of 3000 innocent people... Ohh what I wouldn't do to them.

the chance that somebody orchestrates 9/11 to make 2 million dollars is nil. besides the fact that it would cost much mroe to orchestarte that amoutn of money is probably chump change to the peopel you think did it anyway.

That doesn't explain the building falling in near-exact free-fall without harming any buildings around it. Except of course WTC 7, which caught fire from falling debris? huh.gif I have yet to figure out how multiple fires can occour inside of a building from falling debris. Makes no sense to me.

i am not into physuics, but the guys at popular mechanics are

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Alright, then don't attempt to discredit it.

no need it descredits itself.

Generally, yes. However when you are arrested and brought to court you generally have evidence against you.

howeve somtimes when your evidnce is classifed that may not be releiased immediatly to you.

oh and please go check out here

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

Emperor Ronald Reagan

22nd August 2006, 21:53

indeed, hezbollah is part of IraN not IraQ

How fucking dumb are you? Hezbollah is a Lebanese group, not "part" of Iran. They may be backed by Iran (more spiritually than anything), so what? Everybody in the Middle East is "backed" by somebody, unless you have your own state. Israel is "backed" by America quite a fucking lot financially, diplomatically, and militarily. Is Israel part of America? No.

Zero

22nd August 2006, 22:44

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")so us companies will operate the oil fields, they or russian or french companes would be anyway. whats your point?[/b]
My point is that (among other things) this war is not about Islamic Fundamentalism (which by the way, the USA created), it is not about the towers, it is about Oil. The aformentioned 'Who Killed John Oneil' investigates this.

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")no, the funding coemf rom iran almost exclusvly. iran buys its weaopsn from russia and china and syria plays middle man by funneling the arms across the border. If i wasn't doing a garage sale prep today I'd find the links regarding iran and hezbollahs close ties. Hezbollah borders on a wing of the iranina military, and most of the early training (ie in the early 80s) as well as any advancine dtraining was done in iran.[/b]
After further investigation it looks like your right. Though the way you were phrasing it sounded like Hezbollah was exclusively Iranian.

("theraven")You can't have a private and public sector jobs, at least not two as high up as that. he was either the manager of the stock company or the 3rd hihest person int e cia.[/b][/quote]
("hereinreality.com")the firm used to place the “put options” on United Airlines stock was, until 1998, managed by the man who is now in the number three Executive Director position at the Central Intelligence Agency.[/b][/quote]

("theraven")He does have influnce, but any major company has many peopel who will do that.[/b][/quote]
And he just happened to score a 2.3 million dollar bid days before 9/11? Damn coincidences are making me sick.

("theraven")he could have had info a long the lines of "in mid septemeber their will be a hijacking". tradtioanlly (pre-911) hijckings invovled the terroists taking over the plane, and making demands. not using the palnes as weapons.[/b][/quote]
And if this is true, then it still indicates insider trading, profiting off the deaths of the victims of 9/11, and witholding evidence of a terrorist attack for monitary gain. All of which combined would be an act of treason in my book.

("theraven")the chance that somebody orchestrates 9/11 to make 2 million dollars is nil. besides the fact that it would cost much mroe to orchestarte that amoutn of money is probably chump change to the peopel you think did it anyway.[/b][/quote]
Oh, I'm not saying that 9/11 was orchestrated for the gain of a single company. thousands and thousands of put options were placed on United Airlines and American Airlines in the days preceading 9/11. But the altogether biggest profit would have been from Larry A. Silverstien. He had just taken out a lease on the twin towers, and WTC7 which included a large insurance clause. If he had won his legal battle after 9/11 that counted each tower as seperate acts of terrorism he would have made 300 million dollars off of the attacks (if memory serves.) As well as the entire political machine having another target to expend arms and equipment to fuel the Military Industrial Complex. Don't look soley on the attacks for the official story, look at who benifited from this as well.

("theraven")i am not into physuics, but the guys at popular mechanics are[/b][/quote]
There has also been replies (http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm) to (http://911review.com/pm/markup/) this (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm) article (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/)... but are never given any press.

"theraven"@
no need it descredits itself.
Ahh, the old 'guilty by association' card. :rolleyes:

"theraven"
howeve somtimes when your evidnce is classifed that may not be releiased immediatly to you.

oh and please go check out here
Even if some evidence is being witheald for "national security reasons" why in the fuck are these people being prosecuted without anything but allegations against them?

And ahh! Maddox doesn't believe it, so it must not be true! :rolleyes:

theraven

22nd August 2006, 23:08

Originally posted by Emperor Ronald [email protected] 22 2006, 06:54 PM

indeed, hezbollah is part of IraN not IraQ

How fucking dumb are you? Hezbollah is a Lebanese group, not "part" of Iran. They may be backed by Iran (more spiritually than anything), so what? Everybody in the Middle East is "backed" by somebody, unless you have your own state. Israel is "backed" by America quite a fucking lot financially, diplomatically, and militarily. Is Israel part of America? No.
iran trains hezbollah, iranins recurited msot of the hezbolalh poele early on and iran sends them all the weapons. '

My point is that (among other things) this war is not about Islamic Fundamentalism (which by the way, the USA created), it is not about the towers, it is about Oil. The aformentioned 'Who Killed John Oneil' investigates this.

no it is about islamic fundamslitm, which existed way before the USA even existed btw. however in the 1980s we helped the suadis funnel their islamism and dollars into fighting the ocmmes in afgahastnan. a good idea at the time. Oil is part of it, as it must be, but its not the sole reason to fight.

After further investigation it looks like your right. Though the way you were phrasing it sounded like Hezbollah was exclusively Iranian.

it is essiantly irnain run,however to deny a chinnese, russian or syran asepct would be foolish.

And he just happened to score a 2.3 million dollar bid days before 9/11? Damn coincidences are making me sick.

huh?

Oh, I'm not saying that 9/11 was orchestrated for the gain of a single company. thousands and thousands of put options were placed on United Airlines and American Airlines in the days preceading 9/11. But the altogether biggest profit would have been from Larry A. Silverstien. He had just taken out a lease on the twin towers, and WTC7 which included a large insurance clause. If he had won his legal battle after 9/11 that counted each tower as seperate acts of terrorism he would have made 300 million dollars off of the attacks (if memory serves.) As well as the entire political machine having another target to expend arms and equipment to fuel the Military Industrial Complex. Don't look soley on the attacks for the official story, look at who benifited from this as well.

i imagine mr silverstian would have made more money off of the towers standing....also its not like there were no wars t o figth before 9/11...the world had plenty fo wars already.

There has also been replies to this article... but are never given any press.

yes and ic an reply to, but im gona go with what these guys say.

Ahh, the old 'guilty by association' card. rolleyes.gif

no the old "guilty by being idiotiic" card. i am not saying i tihnk thier suptid becuase of a link they have on the thing, I am saying iw ont watch it based on their own summary.

Even if some evidence is being witheald for "national security reasons" why in the fuck are these people being prosecuted without anything but allegations against them?

there is more thne allegatiosn against them..and im sure as the trial is set and so on the evidicne wilbe sent to their attornyes

And ahh! Maddox doesn't believe it, so it must not be true! rolleyes.gif

no but maddox has ufnny points..

Zero

23rd August 2006, 00:29

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")Oil is part of it, as it must be, but its not the sole reason to fight.[/b]
And what would these other reasons be? Islamic fundamentalism? We are there because we need to expend the buildup of arms, as well as obtain more oil.

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")huh?[/b]
My mistake, 2.5 million dollars.

("theraven")i imagine mr silverstian would have made more money off of the towers standing....also its not like there were no wars t o figth before 9/11...the world had plenty fo wars already.[/b][/quote]
Mr. Silverstien owned the buildings as real estate. Along with that there was signifigant motivation for the CIA to destroy WTC7 (as detailed in the Who Killed John Oneil video.)

And your second statement begs the question: Why do we continue to support a system that creates the need for such wars?

("theraven")yes and ic an reply to, but im gona go with what these guys say.[/b][/quote]
Why is that? Because they are physicists? Alright, if you don't want to believe anyone but physicists, why don't you take a look at Physics 911 (http://www.physics911.net/).

("theraven")no the old "guilty by being idiotiic" card. i am not saying i tihnk thier suptid becuase of a link they have on the thing, I am saying iw ont watch it based on their own summary.[/b][/quote]
Then don't pretend like you can disreguard them for their claims without looking at the details. This is proper Internet etiquette, not to mention common sense and basic argumentative structure.

"theraven"@
there is more thne allegatiosn against them..and im sure as the trial is set and so on the evidicne wilbe sent to their attornyes
In a court preceeding there are generally two things presented against the defense and the accused. These two things are opinions and evidence. Evidence alone sparks theory, and conjecture, and is useless alone in a case. Just as conjecture and theory is useless in a case without evidence.

Without evidence you cannot form a theory of what happened prior to the case. You have only witness testimony, and witness testimony is useless unless you have physical, tangable, evidence backing up these testimonys. Unless of course your name happens to be Parry Mason or Ben Matlock. :lol:

"theraven"
no but maddox has ufnny points..
The problem with his "point" is that Dylan Avery is such a underground sensation that his termination would automaticly give validation to his allegations (reguardless of what he puts into a film) and would spread his views like wildfire.

Though I now will have to find a way to work "Bukakke of stupid" into my library of insults. Where does he come up with this stuff?! :lol:

theraven

23rd August 2006, 01:02

And what would these other reasons be? Islamic fundamentalism? We are there because we need to expend the buildup of arms, as well as obtain more oil.

more accuratly the threat islamic fundaislti is to both us, our allies and the govnermstn we depend on to rpivde stbalityi n the middle east/

Mr. Silverstien owned the buildings as real estate. Along with that there was signifigant motivation for the CIA to destroy WTC7 (as detailed in the Who Killed John Oneil video.)

And your second statement begs the question: Why do we continue to support a system that creates the need for such wars?

1) yes he did, and he could sell them as real estate too, as wel as profit off of rents....

2) im sure they came up wih brilltian ideas, i dont have have the time to waste wathcing a 100 minute vidoe full of idiotic ideas i'll probbaly bea blet o dismiss offhand

3) wars have been part of human h istory since humans could make pointy stikcs...iits not asystem that makes humans warlikes..its humans.

Why is that? Because they are physicists? Alright, if you don't want to believe anyone but physicists, why don't you take a look at Physics 911.

I'll let the physicists argue it out

Then don't pretend like you can disreguard them for their claims without looking at the details. This is proper Internet etiquette, not to mention common sense and basic argumentative structure.

itenret ettiquite does not dmeand i waste my time watching a consiapciy nut video

In a court preceeding there are generally two things presented against the defense and the accused. These two things are opinions and evidence. Evidence alone sparks theory, and conjecture, and is useless alone in a case. Just as conjecture and theory is useless in a case without evidence.

Without evidence you cannot form a theory of what happened prior to the case. You have only witness testimony, and witness testimony is useless unless you have physical, tangable, evidence backing up these testimonys. Unless of course your name happens to be Parry Mason or Ben Matlock. laugh.gif

what on earths your point? there is eviidnce, it just hasn't been released to the defense yet

The problem with his "point" is that Dylan Avery is such a underground sensation that his termination would automaticly give validation to his allegations (reguardless of what he puts into a film) and would spread his views like wildfire.

Though I now will have to find a way to work "Bukakke of stupid" into my library of insults. Where does he come up with this stuff?! laugh.gif

they probably would have killed him before...and they probably would have alterd all the evidience...

red team

23rd August 2006, 02:01

I'll let the physicists argue it out

Buildings don't collapse like that in an uncontrolled collapse. If you've seen pictures of bombed out cities in W.W. 2 historical films you'll see parts of building in rubble with some walls still standing up. How is it possible that a building that wasn't even hit by an actual explosive bomb to collapse like it was in building demolition films?

It official explanation seems like: http://www.turds.com/images/free_turd_pictures/1.jpg

to me.

theraven

23rd August 2006, 03:56

Originally posted by red [email protected] 22 2006, 11:02 PM

I'll let the physicists argue it out

Buildings don't collapse like that in an uncontrolled collapse. If you've seen pictures of bombed out cities in W.W. 2 historical films you'll see parts of building in rubble with some walls still standing up. How is it possible that a building that wasn't even hit by an actual explosive bomb to collapse like it was in building demolition films?

It official explanation seems like: http://www.turds.com/images/free_turd_pictures/1.jpg

to me.
the buildings in wwii were hit by bombs from above, the wtc had buldings slam into it.

Zero

23rd August 2006, 07:06

Thanks for the imagery red_team =P.

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")more accuratly the threat islamic fundaislti is to both us, our allies and the govnermstn we depend on to rpivde stbalityi n the middle east/[/b]
As you were so quick to point out that radical interpretations of Islamism predate the USA, I think it begs the question of 'why are we dealing with this now, and why are we dealing with this with guns, rather then with education?'

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")1) yes he did, and he could sell them as real estate too, as wel as profit off of rents....

2) im sure they came up wih brilltian ideas, i dont have have the time to waste wathcing a 100 minute vidoe full of idiotic ideas i'll probbaly bea blet o dismiss offhand

3) wars have been part of human h istory since humans could make pointy stikcs...iits not asystem that makes humans warlikes..its humans. [/b]
My guess is that Mr. Silverstien was given a private settlement, and seperate entitlement by the CIA to run this venture. Though I suppose theres nothing like having money in your hot little hands now, rather then later. If I had the time and the means I would investigate what he has done since the collapse, though I suppose thats just my knee-jerk-lazy reaction.

Well if you don't want to watch it, thats fine; don't watch it. But if you want to make any commentary on this movie, or try to discredit it, then you should watch it.

Ohh, wow, so your saying that reguardless of our situation we will allways have the compulsion to rob our neighbor, take advantage of the unknowing, and isolate ourselves from everyone else in fear? Right. It's not the system at all. Sounds like the stereotypical preacher "Fear not what will happen to you, for you will be rewarded in the afterlife!" We are not inherently competative, just as we are not inherently 100% cooperative. There is a grey, and always will be a grey, as we are all atypical, no matter how much GAP wants us to dress the same.

("theraven")I'll let the physicists argue it out[/b][/quote]
Then don't attempt to have sway in an arguement on that topic.

("theraven")itenret ettiquite does not dmeand i waste my time watching a consiapciy nut video[/b][/quote]
Alright, if you don't want to be courtious on the Internet, fine. But if you want to argue, you need to do your reading, and look at the evidence your opposition gives. Dismissing evidence right out without discrediting it first with factual opinions is FOX news level reviewing. :rolleyes:

"theraven"@
what on earths your point? there is eviidnce, it just hasn't been released to the defense yet
And who's favor does this work for? The prosecution. If you do not release the information to the defense attourneys, they cannot build a case for your defense; and as your opposition is the state, they have time to prepare a case, and rebuttles for every point possible from the defense. It's like arguing a call in a football game before the play has been made.

"theraven"
they probably would have killed him before...and they probably would have alterd all the evidience...
You can't kill who you don't know. Did you know Dylan Avery before he made Loose Change? I'm guessing not. Did you know his positions before? I'm guessing not. Was he making waves? I'm pretty sure he wasn't. Now that he is, he is a underground superstar. Large swaths of the web have seen Loose Change, or have at least heard of it. Google Video has it, YouTube has it, and it is up for download on almost all torrent networks as well as other P2P sites. You can't catch what you can't stop.

Zero

23rd August 2006, 07:10

Oh, an intresting note that should be made. As of this year Loose Change is illegal in the USA.

theraven

23rd August 2006, 08:12

Oh, an intresting note that should be made. As of this year Loose Change is illegal in the USA.

how so?

As you were so quick to point out that radical interpretations of Islamism predate the USA, I think it begs the question of 'why are we dealing with this now, and why are we dealing with this with guns, rather then with education?'

because bullets kill people faster then books.

My guess is that Mr. Silverstien was given a private settlement, and seperate entitlement by the CIA to run this venture. Though I suppose theres nothing like having money in your hot little hands now, rather then later. If I had the time and the means I would investigate what he has done since the collapse, though I suppose thats just my knee-jerk-lazy reaction.

so the cia payed him to make money on the collapse of the wtc? what was the point of that?

Well if you don't want to watch it, thats fine; don't watch it. But if you want to make any commentary on this movie, or try to discredit it, then you should watch it.

I have no intereast in discrediting it, I am sure it descirts it self.

Ohh, wow, so your saying that reguardless of our situation we will allways have the compulsion to rob our neighbor, take advantage of the unknowing, and isolate ourselves from everyone else in fear? Right. It's not the system at all. Sounds like the stereotypical preacher "Fear not what will happen to you, for you will be rewarded in the afterlife!" We are not inherently competative, just as we are not inherently 100% cooperative. There is a grey, and always will be a grey, as we are all atypical, no matter how much GAP wants us to dress the same.

i never said regarldess of our situation, i just said it will always be there. the socail stigma attached to robbery aws well as the punidhsent means peole won't do it unless thers a sufficnet reward. Some peole are better then others, but as a whole humans are a pretty shitty bunch, and i say this having never been mugged in a subway or alley nor beat up at school (desptie going to publci school my whole life and in an inner city til 7th grade) just so you know im nto saying it out of being jaded. peopel can cooperate some times and can be competitive toher times, but the fact is the potentaitn for both always exists.

Then don't attempt to have sway in an arguement on that topic.

I didnt-i jsut gave you a link to a response to your theories.

Alright, if you don't want to be courtious on the Internet, fine. But if you want to argue, you need to do your reading, and look at the evidence your opposition gives. Dismissing evidence right out without discrediting it first with factual opinions is FOX news level reviewing. rolleyes.gif

I've read msot of the thing you've given me, i've seen loose cahnge (twice) and spoekn with the directors. who killed john oniel looks like a film school kids project on how to make a conspaicy flick

You can't kill who you don't know. Did you know Dylan Avery before he made Loose Change? I'm guessing not. Did you know his positions before? I'm guessing not. Was he making waves? I'm pretty sure he wasn't. Now that he is, he is a underground superstar. Large swaths of the web have seen Loose Change, or have at least heard of it. Google Video has it, YouTube has it, and it is up for download on almost all torrent networks as well as other P2P sites. You can't catch what you can't stop.

you assume the govenrmetn cares that people are making a film when if they are correct about the govnermet being behidn it. they are probably way off base..

Zero

23rd August 2006, 21:23

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")how so?[/b]
It was on digg.com awhile back, here's the article.
http://digg.com/tech_news/Loose_Change_sil..._to_post_on_web (http://digg.com/tech_news/Loose_Change_silenced,_soon_to_be_illegal_to_post_ on_web)

Originally posted by "theraven"+--> ("theraven")because bullets kill people faster then books.[/b]
And these people need to die? No, there is very very little secular education in the Middle East. This is why there is so much violence and fundamentalism. If people are taught this stuff as kids, it's not a big jump to say they will be violent and fundamentalist when they grow up. (Or really, if they grow up.)

("theraven")so the cia payed him to make money on the collapse of the wtc? what was the point of that?[/b][/quote]
Among other things, WTC7 was housing information on suspected insider trading days before the attack.
I think you should watch this... the official storry is that fire on (If memory serves) 8-13 levels brought the building down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-yuQeeYkq8&search=WTC7

"theraven"@
i never said regarldess of our situation, i just said it will always be there. the socail stigma attached to robbery aws well as the punidhsent means peole won't do it unless thers a sufficnet reward. Some peole are better then others, but as a whole humans are a pretty shitty bunch, and i say this having never been mugged in a subway or alley nor beat up at school (desptie going to publci school my whole life and in an inner city til 7th grade) just so you know im nto saying it out of being jaded. peopel can cooperate some times and can be competitive toher times, but the fact is the potentaitn for both always exists.
From what you say it makes me think you've never actually lived in the real world. People help each other more then you would think. I try to do it whenever possible, and guess what? I don't need a reward. It's called Human empathy, and common decency.

If people only base their actions on a "sufficnet reward" why is there the peace corp? Why was there more action for New Orleans from people living in Texas, Mississippi, Missouri, Tenesee, and other states around Louisiana than FEMA? There was no reward but to help people. People donated months of their time, some people quit their job to do relief work full time. None of this has a "sufficnet reward" in todays Capitalist world, but what does it show? It shows that beyond all the bullshit of Hollywood, Wall Street, and the Capital people care. Capitalists have yet to conquer the Human spirit. The one thing they seem to never understand.

"theraven"
you assume the govenrmetn cares that people are making a film when if they are correct about the govnermet being behidn it. they are probably way off base..
Why don't you read this (http://www.rense.com/general73/bol.htm) article, see if you really feel the same way about it.

theraven

24th August 2006, 07:02

It was on digg.com awhile back, here's the article.
http://digg.com/tech_news/Loose_Change_sil..._to_post_on_web

this is not the government bannign it..this is they broke the law..

And these people need to die? No, there is very very little secular education in the Middle East. This is why there is so much violence and fundamentalism. If people are taught this stuff as kids, it's not a big jump to say they will be violent and fundamentalist when they grow up. (Or really, if they grow up.)

so of course those heavily indocitarned parents are gonna let us indocraitne thier kids into secualr uhmanism :lol:

Among other things, WTC7 was housing information on suspected insider trading days before the attack.
I think you should watch this... the official storry is that fire on (If memory serves) 8-13 levels brought the building down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-yuQeeYkq8&search=WTC7

so you think they spent months planning an attack to.destroy some prosueciotns hat owuld have resutel din petty fines and/or a stay in a white collar jail?

From what you say it makes me think you've never actually lived in the real world. People help each other more then you would think. I try to do it whenever possible, and guess what? I don't need a reward. It's called Human empathy, and common decency.

If people only base their actions on a "sufficnet reward" why is there the peace corp? Why was there more action for New Orleans from people living in Texas, Mississippi, Missouri, Tenesee, and other states around Louisiana than FEMA? There was no reward but to help people. People donated months of their time, some people quit their job to do relief work full time. None of this has a "sufficnet reward" in todays Capitalist world, but what does it show? It shows that beyond all the bullshit of Hollywood, Wall Street, and the Capital people care. Capitalists have yet to conquer the Human spirit. The one thing they seem to never understand.

I never deined people can be good just that they arneta all good. people can be great soemtimes, and sometism they can be horrible. if you want a counter consider how some poele behaved in katrina

Why don't you read this article, see if you really feel the same way about it.

hahahahaha ok i started-but this atilce dsereves a post of its own...ADL trained cops...where does this guy get his stuff?
edit:
never mind no new post
but seriously this is just wht this guy cliams. I have no way of verifying any aspect of it, and frankly this fails the "how the hell do you keep all these people form comming foward" theory. if allt he cops are in on it..might not one of them spill the beans? and does he think he can't be reached by the CIA in norway? methinks there is more to this story.