military question - special forces group

[POLITICAL WALL]

what is a good special forces group I can join that acctually have a cause?

[Felicia]

that's hard to say. Special forces groups are usually affiliated with governments and such (like the US green berets during vietnam -- I'm pretty sure that's the war I'm thinking of...). And they don't really have a cause but to do what the government says. But there are guerrilla movements happening all around if that's what you mean. Most have good causes but may go astray in their practices. Do you mean the canadian military or guerrilla movements happening?

[POLITICAL WALL]

enything but the canadian military or americans. Yes a gurrilla movement

[Felicia]

well, for guerrilla movements, you gould probably throw a dart at any third world/oppressed nation and chances are it'll land on one with a rebel movement. :)

Why, are you thinking about running off and joining one? How old are you might I ask? :)


(Edited by felicia at 11:28 pm on July 11, 2003)

[truthaddict11]

its probally a bad idea to join up with a guerilla force in another counrty.

[Felicia]

Quote: from truthaddict11 on 6:14 pm on July 11, 2003
its probally a bad idea to join up with a guerilla force in another counrty.
you're right, you're better off joining tha canadian guerrilla's currently patroling the alaskan/yukon border. Aparently those 7 alaskans are trying to invade us form the north! :cheesy:

nah, I'd run off and join a movement, I've given it serious thought.....


(Edited by felicia at 11:28 pm on July 11, 2003)


(Edited by felicia at 11:29 pm on July 11, 2003)

[Sensitive]

Well, you could join the Maoists in Nepal. That is the only good left-wing group (well, besides FARC) that I can think of. Nepal has pretty mountains too, hehe.

[Felicia]

... don't speak nepalese (sp)....

[Sensitive]

I'm sure one of our Nepalese comrades could teach you it. =)

[POLITICAL WALL]

I've been teaching myself warfare since I was 13. Books,downloads,videos you name it. Being in a special forces unit is somthing I have always dreame of it would be somthing I'd be good at. Oh ya and im 18 now.

[Felicia]

are you female or male? (if you're female, you can get your title changed in the lounge). Let me know if you're ever planning a trip to middle nova scotia, we could chat about this stuff...

sensitive, I don't need to learn nepalese, I'm working on another language thankyou ;)

[Vinny Rafarino]

What type of armed struggle faction are you looking for? Urban or Rural.

[Douche the Bagger]

Be patient and stay away from the military, far, far away.

[CubanFox]

Quote: from felicia on 3:27 am on July 12, 2003

Quote: from truthaddict11 on 6:14 pm on July 11, 2003
its probally a bad idea to join up with a guerilla force in another counrty.
you're right, you're better off joining tha canadian guerrilla's currently patroling the alaskan/yukon border. Aparently those 7 alaskans are trying to invade us form the north! :cheesy:

nah, I'd run off and join a movement, I've given it serious thought.....


Damn Alaskans!

But yeah, what you could do is create a guerilla movement overseas. You could travel to a third world nation, convince them that capitalism has made them miserable, and convert them to socialism. Then give them guns.

[Felicia]

Quote: from CubanFox on 7:15 am on July 12, 2003

Quote: from felicia on 3:27 am on July 12, 2003

Quote: from truthaddict11 on 6:14 pm on July 11, 2003
its probally a bad idea to join up with a guerilla force in another counrty.
you're right, you're better off joining tha canadian guerrilla's currently patroling the alaskan/yukon border. Aparently those 7 alaskans are trying to invade us form the north! :cheesy:

nah, I'd run off and join a movement, I've given it serious thought.....


Damn Alaskans!

But yeah, what you could do is create a guerilla movement overseas. You could travel to a third world nation, convince them that capitalism has made them miserable, and convert them to socialism. Then give them guns.
nope, can't. If a guerrilla struggle is to begin, it MUST, under all circumstances be led by a native of that country. Someone who has lived through the same hardships as everyone else. I strongly doubt that anyone in a third world country would follow a [white]westerner who just showed up, not experiencing their conditions for their entire life. But that's not to say that you can't participate in such a movement, being a foreigner/westerner, you can aide, just not be the main leader.

[redstar2000]

Political Wall, there are a whole bunch of things involved in your question that I don't think you've thought about very clearly...or at all.

First of all, joining an insurrectionary army in another country is not like joining a regular army...you don't just walk up, sign some papers, and you're in.

Let's say, for example, that you wanted to join the FARC or the ELN in Colombia...the first thing you'd have to do is move there and become fluent in Spanish as well as at least superficially knowledgable about the details of what was actually happening there. That would probably take a couple of years at a minimum.

Then you would have to find and join an "above-ground" group that had some kind of ties to the FARC or the ELN...and prove your reliability as a genuine supporter of the insurrection...that's another year or two. And, assuming you are from a "first world country", they are going to be suspicious of you...what could be easier for the CIA then to send in some guy "who wants to help".

If and when you are ultimately accepted as a sincere fighter, you are going to get guard duty and lots of it...you won't be trusted in combat situations for at least another year or longer. In military terms, at least, these people know what they're doing and that doesn't involve sending new recruits directly into combat.

You see what I'm getting at? The "romantic" idea of joining a guerilla band and "living like Che" is, for people in the western world, a fantasy. I wouldn't want to say that a westerner would never be accepted in an undeveloped country's insurrection...particularly if he brought a useful skill with him--I suspect Che's medical skills in the field were at least as important as his military skills. But it's an incredible long-shot.

There's no denying that violent resistance to the prevailing social order has tremendous emotional appeal--I still remember the thrill of seeing cop cars burn. But the emotionally appealing does not necessarily substitute for the sensible. It is certainly possible to envision tactics that are moderately violent and yet "feasible" in an advanced capitalist country--there are lots of details to consider.

But I would discourage, if I could, the "romantic image" of the "revolutionary"...particularly the version surrounding Che. He was a unique historical figure...and even he blundered in Bolivia.

In real life, being a revolutionary is a lot of hard work...and often terribly frustrating, when it seems like you aren't "getting anywhere". That's just the way it is; if material conditions are against you, there's not a whole lot you can do about that except keep plugging away and wait for conditions to improve.

And, above all, the desire to "be like Che" is not a good reason to get involved in this stuff at all...unless you are willing to do what Che did long before he went to the mountains: study revolutionary theory and figure out what kind of revolution you want.

:cool:

[Just Joe]

Presuming Youre a Socialist, the only real thing I think you could do is maybe emigrate to Cuba, learn Spanish and join the military. Personally I think the idea of taking orders and the whole institute of the military goes against what Socialism really is but thats another topic.

Alternativly in the English speaking world there is the Irish National Liberation Army. There goal is a 32 county Communist State in Ireland. For those who will immidiatly jump on the band wagon and call them gangsters, I'd refer you to what redstar2000 put in the post about Armies being funded by crime.

[mentalbunny]

POLITICAL WALL, I remember someone saying something about the Zapatistas (sp?) in another, kinda similar thread. I suggest you check out the threads about joining the army, I'm pretty certain there's at least one in Theory.

[Felicia]

here's a brief bit on the zapatistas

http://www.utexas.edu/students/nave/zaps.html

[Nobody]

Raisethefist.com has a section (abliet brief) on guerilla warfare, intersting stuff. Are there any guerill a movements in an English speaking country?

[Felicia]

Quote: from LevTrosky on 10:59 pm on July 12, 2003
Are there any guerill a movements in an English speaking country?
hmm, only if it's an african nation that was under rule by the british..... dunno about any movements though.

[Sandanista]

Oh my oh my, sorry to quote you again mr marx:

"the liberation of the working class can be an act of only the working class itself"

This basically means the only way to have a "revolution" is for the mass working vlass to smash the state and take control of the work place, not by some small force of guerrilla bandits takin over and proclaiming to be communists when in fact all they are doin is creatin another capitalist economy a la cuba

[POLITICAL WALL]

Im male and im the same guy that asked the question about the spetcnaz my old name was rebel16.

[commieboy]

i know they're imperialist, but i have always wanted to join the French Foreign Legion, i know it sounds stupic, but i've learned somthing. Ever since i knew what france was...people have been making fun of their army. But i've looked back at history...for a hundred years they kept England busy, in WWI they were fighting well before America was and now americans say that we bailed their asses out because they suck at fighting, and in WWII yet again they were fighting well before america. In Vietnam they fought against the NVA and VC but they got their asses kicked, but they diserved it that time, but when ever someone brings that one up all i say is, "And America didnt get our asses kicked?" that usually gets me punched but its worth it...but now what they're doing in Africa and south pacific isn't cool, its a bit wrong....but still being a legionaire would be very cool for me!

(Edited by commieboy at 11:35 am on July 14, 2003)

[Monks Aflame]

doesn't france sorta still have imperialist colonies, or at least spheres of influence, everywhere?

[Dench]

[/quote]
nope, can't. If a guerrilla struggle is to begin, it MUST, under all circumstances be led by a native of that country. Someone who has lived through the same hardships as everyone else. I strongly doubt that anyone in a third world country would follow a [white]westerner who just showed up, not experiencing their conditions for their entire life. But that's not to say that you can't participate in such a movement, being a foreigner/westerner, you can aide, just not be the main leader.
[/quote]

Felicia:
I think that you have got a point, but there are exeptions.

Example: Subcomandante Marcos is not an native Mexican, he´s a Mestis. But still he is the leader of the EZNL, an army fighting for the natives rights in chiapas (and others all over the globe).

But he is still an Mexican, and he has proven his loyalty to the people witch he is fighting for. I do agree with you that it would be difficult to start a own Guerilla movement in an other country, depending on your background.

Political wall:
I don´t think that you got the background and experiense mentioned above

But you still can start a Revolution. Every upprise needs an avantgarde, this is not an easy quest.
The people who is in the biggest need of an Rev. is also many times the ones that are the hardest to activate.
Bad schooling, no money and a suppressed will, are standard in countries that need the change.

The avantgarde´s work will contain a number off elements; education, agitation, preparation, organisation and such...

And if you wan´t blood this work will show that you are a trustable person (or should i call you soldier ?).

Other alternatives may be joining some help organization (Amnesty, Red cross, etc) or Media companys(in this case you got to be pretty selective, you don´t want to work at a station, paper, etc that are not appreciated by the people you are seeking contact with.) this can get you in touch with Revolutioneres that may, or may not (depending on that background and experience again) include you in their army.

If you are determent to join an (rural) war, may i suggest the Zapatistas? They fight for a good reason, in a admirable way. They are strong belivers in the Genevé convention and Mexico (Chiapas) is a wonderfull contry. If you are lucky you can even get a chance to meet Marcos, an incredible leader, fighter, writer and man.
They have good contact with the Media, atleast the not to crocked companies. And a number of help organisations is moving around the region.

I must say that i recognize the will to fight, the urge to work practicly to make the world a better place.
We are the same age, this urge is mostly shown in young people in the west. The people who live where the battles is fought isn´t as entusiastic about it. But they havn´t (unlike us) got a choice.

I hope you find a cause to fight for, try looking close,verry close. the strugle dosn´t allways wear olive green!

Good Luck!!
¨

[BRIN]

The foreign legion is pretty hard core i've heard.1 out of every 5 soliders die in the first 5 years during peace(peace keeping) time.You also get even less respect than you would in a normal army and i mean less respect.I saw on a documentry the other week that if you don't learn french within 3 weeks you are beaten untill you learn it.One other thing they don't get high tech wepons because they are criminals and foreign scum according to the french army.


The places they are that i know of are the congo,north africa,the french paccific islands and i think they're also in south america but don't hold me on it.


The advantages are that after 5 years you can get a new french identity and you stay with them and become a para-trooper and retire you'll be given a beutiful house in southern france.


If you join i recon the best place to be allocated(if you get a choice) is probly the borders of somalia because they're isn't any left wing activity (that i know of).So you'd just be shooting warlords armys,smugglers and the odd villiger that comes too close.


BTW do the Zappatistas engage in any hard core guerrilla warefare?.I haven't heard anything about them actully fighting.

[CubanFox]

Quote: from BRIN on 1:15 pm on July 15, 2003
The foreign legion is pretty hard core i've heard.1 out of every 5 soliders die in the first 5 years during peace(peace keeping) time.You also get even less respect than you would in a normal army and i mean less respect.I saw on a documentry the other week that if you don't learn french within 3 weeks you are beaten untill you learn it.One other thing they don't get high tech wepons because they are criminals and foreign scum according to the french army.

Sounds pretty French to me! :biggrin:

[commieboy]

Exactly thats why i like it its so "Hardcore" But i hope i can clear up what i think you may have heard wrong. The french Foreign legionaires during training are paired up with a french/english speaking person or maybe its just french. But they are given lessons, until they become fluent. Their weapons are the best the french army has to offer a FAMAS assault rifle, and i dont know what but an Automatic or semi 9mm pistol. And the pay is pretty well during training, i read 5500 francs, i dont know what that is in euros. And on a tour in africa it is doubled and even tripled. So...i would join, but i don't know, there's always college, and i'd like to go to that before joining to explore my options for a career.

[Dench]

No the Zapastians isn´t really in to "hardcore" fighting. They are not fighting too increase their power or to enlarge the region, they are fighting for freedom, justice and democracy for the native mexican´s...
When the movement (EZNL, that is) first surfaced in early 1994 (after 10 years of preparation) there where some hard fighting, and they took controll over a couple of cities.
Since that they havn´t been searchin fights, i belive that they haven´t been involved in that many fights. but the governement is still out to destroy (and most importante: silence) the army and it´s administrative power.

[trotskycadre]

I would look either to the Northern Ireland liberation armies, or the Zapatistas like others have suggested. But I would also suggest getting your theory down, and knowing what you're fighting for and who you are representing first. If you're looking to get socialist stuff done in the US or Britain (or any other highly industrialized nation) it is argueable that you will get more done organizing a socialist study group, or getting involved with an already existing youth socialist group. If you're intent on fighting, then that's another story.