This is a call to arms. - READ

[Douche the Bagger]

I know this is an global community so my message is to those living in the oppressive U.S of Greed.

We have to do something. I cant stress enough the idea of grouping together, start secret organizations and cover up organizations should be peaceful and with the main focus to educate and organize. The first obstacle to overcome is the privatized media, that brainswashes and turns its viewers into pacifists. We must build a strong foundation before taking force to the streets and taking down the media giants, if not one station at a time. Secrecy comes in play when setting up pirate broadcasting, and contacting other groups and chapters, informing of advancements and developements. There must be an underground network of information, that can be accessed all over the country. PUT THE WORD OUT, free thinkers, fighters, revolutionaries, ect. must unite. Our future grows dim. It is the truth and we must act!!!

[Reuben]

ever heard of indymedia mate?

[RED FIRE]

inspiring words.........

[Douche the Bagger]

I check out indymedia. Swell stuff. Im most excited about the link to a local anarchy group and finally meet some people. Its a start to something great.

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

sounds like somthing big, but i wanna hear more about these secret organizations. give us more information, objectives and any type of ideas you have right now to start this.

[Douche the Bagger]

These are my initial ideas:
Main variables:
1)Police 2)Citizens feelings 3)Trained and Disciplened Task Force 4)A main operating foundation

First set of objectives:
a. x number of cooperatives above 200
b. Seperate into two groups:
1.those who study. seek out information and truth. Work finances, community involvement.
2. the guerrillas-athletic, vigilante, trained in weapon combat and basic tactical manuevering in suburban areas. active in communities.
c.To raid and siege broadcasting equipment, burning down the buildings and covering up trails in well thought out plans.
d.set up a base of operations in a secure urban area, idealy in a community with much hate against the government.

EX. for sources of income, developing highly detailed plans of jacking ATMs, quickly transfering the money to a secretive bank account(ex. Swiss bank account) to hide the trace.
This is only a preliminary idea and notion. All opinions help.

[elijahcraig]

Have you done anything with this yet?

[Douche the Bagger]

Im at the starting line. There is a local anarchist and socialist group, there, i plan to meet more and more people to study with coverning very important subjects. Tactics, philosophies, examples of a mass revolution and such. Im still pretty young and need lots of input and ingenious views to write a complete plan. This will take up to a couple years unless there are others that feel strongly in this idea and are willing to act.

(Edited by Douche the Bagger at 6:07 am on July 11, 2003)

[elijahcraig]

Have you contacted any of the major socialist groups? Raise the Fist, although monitored, is probably interested. I'm writing a pamphlet for some people who requested it. It's entitled, so far, "Oppression and Revolution". I've got through three chapters. It's from an anarchist point of view. I started when I was an anarchist, I'm now a marxist. I'll have to change it a bit. Raise the Fist is pro-armed struggle. I'm a member of the International Socialist Organization, which I consider legitimate, Howard Zinn recommended it, Chomsky also through email. You would need some way of getting around the media, or inside the media, I'm not sure about how you could do that. They'd most likely portray you as a terrorist, as they did to people during the cold war with "communism". I live in North Carolina, and don't know many (maybe one) people who are not republicans.

[Douche the Bagger]

Well, I propose that we take out media completely, as far as television goes. By means of eradicating attennas and privately own broadcasting stations across the states. Fight to take over all broadcasting locally at first till our forces strengthen ending with total control. Perhaps have 2 channels one with the truth and the other with pig shit filled corperate cnn or fox news, comparing the two would be effective to really stress and make stand out the horrible leadership in charge of our country. There is no chapter in my state in cooperative with raisethefist. Something that I plan to change.
My state is pretty liberal but they also go with the latest fad and semi superficial. It sucks. Have you heard of any kind similar plans in ISO?

[elijahcraig]

ISO is revolutionary, but they're not maoists, which I take it you are, or either an anarchist. I don't know anything but what is on the site, and the updates they send me, here's a link, you can look around on it: http://www.internationalsocialist.org/

[Douche the Bagger]

Perhaps. I havent yet read up on Mao Tse Tung and that revolution. Right now, im reading up on Carl Marx "Later Political Writings". Hard shit to follow.

[elijahcraig]

You should see my post on Maoism in (I think) "Theory". It explains how Maoism is actually not Marxist, dispite Maoist claims.

[elijahcraig]

Here it is:

Maoism
Maoism emerged as the dominant force on the revolutionary left in the 1960s and 1970s because the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" occurred at a time when students and workers all over the world were in rebellion. At the time, it seemed to be a revolutionary alternative to rotting fetid corpse of Stalinist orthodoxy. But most Maoist organizations fractured and disintegrated after Nixon visited China in 1971, which signalled that Mao and U.S. imperialism made peace with one another. Today, there are a number of Maoist sects - complete with worshipping Mao's Little Red Book and personality cults.

Although Maoism as a political force is more or less irrelevant in today's struggles, it is important to study for two reasons. 1: to study the revolutionary socialist tradition and the history of the working class movement, it is important to study ideas hostile and alien to both, especially if it cloaks itself in the red flag. 2: it exerted enormous influence in the left in the 60s and 70s, and its shortcomings proved fatal for many organizations on the left.

The Chinese Revolution in 1949 seemed to validate the practice of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) for the preceding decade and a half. Instead of building a mass working class revolutionary party, one could build a guerilla army in the countryside, and impose socialism from above. The ideas of Maoism are thus completely at odds with the ideas of Marxism - of the self-emancipation of the working class, of socialism from below.

Mao Tse-Tung and the CCP developed this strategy after bourgeois nationalist leader Chiang Kai-Shek slaughtered thousands of communists and working class militants, smashing the Chinese revolution of 1925-1927. Mao and the CCP, instead of resisting Chiang Kai-Shek and trying to salvage the organization, decided to flee the urban areas to wage guerilla war from the countryside. Maoism arose out of the most horrible defeat for the Chinese working class in its history; the idea that workers are the key to winning a socialist society was unceremoniously abandoned.

The logical corallory of this abandonment was that socialism no longer depended on the battle between classes, but on the battle between rival military forces. Relocating the struggle from the cities into the countryside, from the working class to an army of professional soldiers, changed the class base and nature of the CCP. After all, workers cannot quit their jobs and join the new army without losing their position as workers. So what was the revolutionary class of society if it wasn't the working class? "The peasants!", the Maoists say.

Yet the peasants are the product of pre-capitalist economic formations - and without capitalism creating a working class, there can't be socialism. Not only that, but the peasants are incapable of imposing and exercising their power as a class. As Marx observed in the Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte:
The small-holding peasants form a vast mass, the members
of which live in similar conditions without entering into
manifold relations with one another. Their mode of production
isolates them from one another instead of bringing them into
mutual intercourse ... In so far as millions of families live
under economic conditions of existence that separate their
modes of life, their interests, and their culture from those
of the other classes, and put them into hostile opposition to
the latter, they form a class. In so far as there is merely a
local interconnection among these small-holding peasants, and
the identity of their interests begets no community, no
national bond and no political organization among them they
do not form a class. They are consequently incapable of
enforcing their class interests in their own name ... They
cannot represent themselves, they must be represented. Their
representative must at the same time appear as their master,
as an authority over them, as an unlimited governmental power
that protects them against other class and sends them rain
and sunshine from above.

This is not to say that the peasants cannot struggle or fight for their own interests. History is marked by thousands of incidents of peasant revolts spanning thousands of years. But because they are so isolated from one another and heterogeneous, they cannot become the ruling class. They can win battles, but not the war. Why? Because although they can conquer the cities from without, they cannot run the machines and technology in the cities. Leadership of the peasantry has to come from without - from an urban class.

For Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky, this class was the proletariat. Unlike the peasantry, the working class did "enter into manifold relations with one another"; unlike the peasants, the working class had no choice but to battle their exploiters, and could only do so collectively, as a class. They envisaged the working class fighting the bosses, and the bosses' state, in the cities; in doing so, they could appeal to the peasants in their fight against that same state which protected the landlords and sent the tax-collectors.

But the working class is not the only urban class. The "Red" Army, created by the CCP, was mostly peasants at the rank-and-file level. But these peasants lost their position as peasants when they joined the army. The officers and leaders of the army, on the other hand, were almost exclusively from the urban intelligentsia, or the middle-class. This had several implications.

For one, the guerilla army's battle against the state excluded the mass of peasants, allowing them to be passive spectators at most. Along with the mass of the peasantry, workers were also condemned to the sidelines. Secondly, the ex-peasants in the army were ordered around - the army was structured in a top-down, authoritarian way. Again they were subordinate to a different class, and it wasn't the working class.

This is why Mao instructed the "Red" Army to be polite to the peasants, to pay for what you take, and so on. There is a continual temptation to do the opposite because of the imbalance in power. The relationship of the guerilla army seeks to act on behalf of the peasants; a revolutionary workers' party is part of the working class, and seeks to win the class to acting for itself.

But the guerilla army doesn't even really act on the peasants behalf, as John Molyneux observed:
The real basis of the elitism [between the guerilla army and
the peasants] is not just the superior culture of the guerilla
command, nor even its possession of arms, but a divergence in
class aims. The fundamental class aim of the peasantry is
possession of the land. The fundamental class aim of the
revolutionary intelligentsia who form the guerilla leadership
is the capture of state power to achieve national liberation.
The latter USES the former to propel ITSELF, and not the
peasantry, into power.

Once in power, the guerilla army's command structure becomes the state's command structure. The cult of the guerilla leader who is "sacrificing for the people" is elevated into a god, a god who demands sacrifice from the people, the workers and peasants, for the "good of the nation." The guerillas find themselves in much the same position as the Bolsheviks after the civil war - but it is not part of or connected to the international workers' movement, as the Bolsheviks initially were. The only option then is the Stalinist model - after all, national independence in a world of capitalist nation-states means playing by the rules of the capitalists. Economic growth and the accumulation of capital - by a harsh regime of exploition of workers and peasants - are necessary to keep imperialist countries at bay. This serves to cement the power of the guerillas-turned-rulers.

This is why the Marxist tradition of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky, is totally at odds with Maoism.

While socialists must unconditionally support all struggles against imperialism and for national independence, we also need, as Lenin stressed, "a determined struggle against attempts to give a communist coloring to bourgeois-democratic trends in the backward countries ..." After all, the task of a national liberation movement is to free one nation-state from the domination of another; the task of the working class is to establish a classless, stateless society. Thus, while socialists unconditionally support all struggles for national independence, we must argue that the working class retain its political independence in order to fight for its own interests, and for socialism.

from http://www.geocities.com/anita_job/maoism.html

[Douche the Bagger]

Your touching upon the hardest subject and most imporntant. What government works and how effectively does it rule. At the moment i simply do not contain the knowledge to even begin to try and figure out a ruling system. I do find it important to keep an open mind about such a thing, and not think inside just one type of governing.

[elijahcraig]

I used to be an anarchist, but I became a Marxist after reading Lenin. The problem with what you are suggesting is that a small minority take over a government and rule, which is not Marxism. Marxism would have to have something to do with the masses, not just a few intellectuals. We need a few steps towards raising awareness, in my opinion, before this. I don't really know if we could take out the entire media. It's pretty complex, and the corporate-media-government connections would find a way to smash that sort of thing fast.

[Douche the Bagger]

Getting mainstream awareness will become harder and harder to get, day to day. The media, is a very big and important weapon even more so when 99% of it will be privatized. A problem is that most people are ignorant to other views because the watch the news and is the only source they[proletariats and peasants]. No matter how big of a lie, I feel that working class will still side with the interchangeble political parties of the Democrats and Republicans.
In reguards to puting a small percentage of people in charge, that part takes place just durring first phase, untill the movement is assured 95-100% backing of the proletarians and peasants. Deciding factor will probably be based on the inhabited area and the population. WHat to work on is a system of equality between the guerrilla and the proletarian. A tight knitted relationship should be built between the two classes... in an effort to become one...hence classless.

[elijahcraig]

Someone remarked on another thread about a speech Che gave in New York, an interview rather, a day or so I think before his UN speech. He said that guerilla warfare in the first world nations would be disastrous.

[elijahcraig]

Here it is from "Revolution Versus Reform" in the "Practice" forum:

Che once said in an interview that he gave in New York City on Dec.12 1964 just after His famous speech at the UN the day before, That he did not agree or will not support a guerrilla movement in first world countries. His reason was that these countries have the capital,intelligence and propaganda agencies to bring down such movement, some of the people present did not listen, They were menbers of Students for a Democratic Society that later became WM(Weatherman). And if you heard of them you know what the outcome was.

Prepare yourself,mass organize and then fight.

[Douche the Bagger]

Times have changed since 1964. This is a totally new era, one, that Che is mostly unaware of. Also, think about what he based his analysis on; fighting in extremely rural areas, in forests, undeveloped land for the most part. He never lived for a long period of time within the states, never truly was able or interested in dysecting what kind of scenario the US was in. Probably didnt want to or else his death probably would have came a lot sooner. The leaders of a revolution are the people of the land. I cant go much more futher into detail tonight, but Im keeping a close eye over this thread.

[elijahcraig]

Things have changed, they have become more secure, more unified (in terms of the media-corporate-state alliance), more able to kill any little thing. I do not believe that your plan will work without first raising popular support, the media will turn you into terrorists, and it will be over. You are underestimating the US government, they are the most powerful government to ever exist, they won't fall by a few guerillas (even a few hundred) waging guerilla war on them. When the Bolsheviks took power they had the masses behind them because the Tsar was a clearly oppressive force, the problem now is that most of the US does not feel oppressed. They feel rich and powerful, and they are in comparison with the Third World. There barely exists a proletariat compared to other countries. I don't see this happening this way. Revolution is a mass movement, not a coup by a few. It would be annhilated. Completely.

[Douche the Bagger]

Remind you, this is not going to happen over night but perhaps within this decade. The quality of life of the working class is declining exponential, especially under the current administration, developing the right climate for an uprising. Your right, it could be brought down quickly but you must not fear death creating a mindset that isnt afraid to take on the biggest evil. Im too young and simply unable to have a complete grasp of our situation, i havent been around long enough.
Analyze this scenario though:
The rebelious, guerrilla force operates out of a ghetto, which perhaps might be the most favoritable conditions because such a movement would be strongly supported. With well thought out urban warfare tactics, it would be posible to hold a couple miles of housing. I mean, police would be the front force to fight against us. Use guerrilla tactics destroy the local police. The government must react, more then likely they would send in army reserves. If the government acts recklessly leading to numerous civilian deaths and deaths of their own sons, more drastic discisions would be needed which could easily anger the rest of public even more. They cant simply bomb neighborhoods and cities, that would sure cause a huge uproar and riots. But the over all success depends on the numbers. The same act must be taken all over the country durring the same period of time(if well organized, which you know is very key), spreading out the military. Such actions might possibly open up peoples minds... other steps must be taken to secure a voice in mainstream media that would surely reach a national audience...

[Hayduke]

Douche the Bagger ,

I Respect your vision to change todays corrupt society. Yet I cannot approve the way you want to help the people. The result you want is the same, but I can assure you that when youll try your methods people will get scared. People dont like violence. When a couple of teeangers would run a around arms, claiming to reform there city, I wouldnt be to sympathatic myself.

Instead of looking to internation ( wic is afgorse a good thing ) you should always start local. You cant just create a red city without earning the trust of the people. You are naming problems people are not aware of. They see the media as a trustable source of information. They dont see trouble in the acting of the gonverment. When you are fighting for the people you should fight for them. You should fight against there problems.

Dont start secret underground movements, you are a movement for the people you have no need to hide. This will only put yourself further from the people, something you should always try to avoid.

Find out the trouble in your town. Go in to the neighberhood. Fight against the trouble your people have to live with. There's no need for arms, guerillia warfare or secret organisations.

If you ever need more info about starting a political youth party, you can always send me a personal message and I would be glad to tell you from my experiences.

Bas

[Douche the Bagger]

I dont know if you live in the states or not. There are cities that are "red" but they dont know it. Over half the country is in poverty. And with in those areas and zones, i guarantee people are not afraid of violence. Police brutality runs rampant in such parts, most of which goes completely unnoticed. The media covers up the injustices of my government, everyone should know that by now. The people who are scared of violence are the middle class. The most brainswashed and pacifist class in America. To fix that you need to make a big scene on the homefront. This is still a country full of human beings with compassion for there fellow man (not the elite class). Just think of quickly you can make the masses aware of inexplainable, horrible injusticeses that are in the spotlight for the first time. During this time, many independent print and media has to be distrubated to the middle class, via radio, TV, newspapers ect... The American people live in a fairy tale and all they need is reality check on a massive scale.
A violent(one that uses weapons) revolutionary movement must be kept in complete secrecy for it to survive and prepare for the right time. Che wrote about this, Im just adapting his strategies which can be done with extraordinary, revolutionary minds. Which Id like to believe I have. The fight is always the fight of the people, no other kind of fight would be successful. But in the beginning stages, there must strict secrecy because information can be easily leaked by townspeople, who do not entirely know the importance of what they say and to whom. The people do not study the enemy, that is the task of the guerrillas.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Comrade Douche--
I really must agree with Comrade elijahcraig. Guerrilla warfare from a small, secretive band of revolutionaries will not bring down the US government in its current state of power.

The media is monopolized by huge corporations, which I am sure you know. This media will, without hesitation, quickly smear any violence against the government as a terrorist action. The majority of the American people, brainwashed or ignorant or whatever, will immediately be consumed with fear. We have been programmed to fall behind Cowboy Bush when we are faced with a terrorist menace.

The government would crush your guerrillas by any means necessary, be it police, national guard, etc. There is nowhere to hide in the US. The media will take care of the propaganda work.

The only way to bring revolution to the US will have to start with a huge information campaign. I do not feel that we are anywhere near ready to start direct action to overthrow the capitalist system or the government that harbors it here.

Before we take on our ultimate goal of implementing socialism (or communism, anarchy... whatever you call it really does not matter), we must get activists into the proletarian and unemployed sectors. We must get to the middle class and shatter any illusions of grandeur they may have. We need to establish and reinforce powerful independent media to unwire the brainwashing of the NY Times and CNNs of the US (as well as the Foxs, of course).

The revolution must be a mass upheaval to truly succeed.

[Douche the Bagger]

The small armed guerrilla force will not be used to try to overthrow the government, obviously. What its goals are is to attack media directly, blowing up towers and stations. Take television away(the main gun of the government) from suburbs and cities in such a mannor where the minimal amount of lives would be lost if any. This kind of action will not take place in one city in just one state but across the US in other areas of great poverty. An information campaign should be ran both slightly before and parallel with guerrilla force. Both will grow in numbers as well according to the rate of success.


But this is a second step that should be well thought up, discussed, critized and planned. Conjuring up all possible actions and steps the government will take to fight back so a plan can be made to respond. Something that requires much detail and time spent with others in meetings and not in public forums. I dont anticipate to have a complete strategy tomorrow but rather a couple years down the road, after much study of the enemy and creative tactics in full detail.

Remember, we know the problem which gives us the ability to solve it. Look what the FCC is doing, with every hour, every day. The cash flow is more and more controlled and distrubeted amongst the corporate elite and a vision for a strong independent media source to reach a national audience in the US is growing dull. This is a society where you need cash to be heard, this is why people riot or cause terrorists acts, its the only way to be heard.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

How do you expect to destroy the media with guerrillas? You would need a great number of people to destroy all the stations. You may be able to destroy a few with a small band, but there will still be stations left (not to mention print media!).

If you attack the media, or other powerful institutions with force, the government will use its police and military and crush you. A small band, secretive and unable to destroy the entire media at once, would be labeled terrorists by the rest of the media and you would not succeed in agitating the American people to revolution that way.

If you are suggesting that you would destroy all of the big media in one massive strike, you would need to organize so many people in so many places that the FBI would catch on and destroy you before you even get started.

I appreciate your resolve for change, but this plan you speak of does not seem remotely possible.

[Douche the Bagger]

Do not say it cannot work! with the time you use to search for faults and explain the destruction of a guerrilla movement, and since you obviously know of the problem how bout using that fucking time to work on solving the mother fucking problem. A person content with having just the amount of knowledge to know why something "can not" work is a useless voice. Challenge your minds to free you of the fucking fear that keeps you passive! Not to undermine anyones efforts in fighting the good fight.

[Iepilei]

In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispells hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.
You too shall pass away.
Knowing this, how can you quarrel?

[Hayduke]

Quote: from Douche the Bagger on 1:41 pm on July 12, 2003
Do not say it cannot work! with the time you use to search for faults and explain the destruction of a guerrilla movement, and since you obviously know of the problem how bout using that fucking time to work on solving the mother fucking problem. A person content with having just the amount of knowledge to know why something "can not" work is a useless voice. Challenge your minds to free you of the fucking fear that keeps you passive! Not to undermine anyones efforts in fighting the good fight.


I can't really blame you for this view, since I had it as well in my earlier years as a socialist. But what everyone knows of this is that no action will come from this. Someone that is really preparing to eliminate there opponents, isn't typing it on a public forum.

One day my friend you will see the power of passive actions. Its so much better then using violent actions. And if you dont have the people behind you, you while quikly be seen as a terrorist instead of a freedom fighter.

Go work on your new form of media first. Make a good local newspaper and spread the word. Inform the people and learn from them, since you are fighting for them you should base every actions on there opnion.

Bas

[Vinny Rafarino]

My only advice to you bagger is to stop posting about blowing things up.

[Douche the Bagger]

I know, but some comrades seem to blow things out of porportion, leaving me to try to re-iterate and defend my idea from being discreditted by those saying, "it is impossible".

D Day, I know. The idea of this topic was to get the attention of someone(s) who is already underway in the developement stages of such a project.

[mentalbunny]

Douche, I don't think anyone is working on anything here, and if they are I doubt they'll mention it because it would just be too risky, although I suppose they could PM you.

I agree with D DAY, you have to find out what the concerns are for the people in your community and fight with them for a better deal, this means healthcare, job security, education, etc. That will get you in with the people and you might achieve something.

[elijahcraig]

The rebelious, guerrilla force operates out of a ghetto, which perhaps might be the most favoritable conditions because such a movement would be strongly supported. With well thought out urban warfare tactics, it would be posible to hold a couple miles of housing. I mean, police would be the front force to fight against us. Use guerrilla tactics destroy the local police. The government must react, more then likely they would send in army reserves. If the government acts recklessly leading to numerous civilian deaths and deaths of their own sons, more drastic discisions would be needed which could easily anger the rest of public even more. They cant simply bomb neighborhoods and cities, that would sure cause a huge uproar and riots. But the over all success depends on the numbers. The same act must be taken all over the country durring the same period of time(if well organized, which you know is very key), spreading out the military. Such actions might possibly open up peoples minds... other steps must be taken to secure a voice in mainstream media that would surely reach a national audience...

I have to disagree with you. I do not think violence would look good, and it would not get support from the people. As someone else said, "people don't like violence". You, and all who walk with you, would be turned into terrorists, and would be slaughtered in the media, as well as on the battlefield.

[Dench]

just wanted to show my support, but this is a really bad place to start a revolution!

I think that you might find it hard to defeat the US gov. with a guerilla unit...


(Edited by Dench at 6:35 am on July 14, 2003)

[Monks Aflame]

I think you still have much thought to put into this. If you destroy the local police, the police officers families and friends will be against you. If you fight the army, and kill many of the soldiers, you again lose support, especially considering that the majority of the army is blacks and latinos, and you plan on operating out of the ghetto... These actions won't open peoples' minds, they'll make them angry and hate you.

You stress organization, as do I. And the problem of how arises. The government has amazing control over the Internet, phone taps exists, they'll have CIA agents all over, following the leaders of this revolutions, listening to their conversations, so on. In fact, I'm not sure how safe it is to post such plans on the forums...

Plenty of people know of the injustices. I'd say most people know about racism and police brutality, but they are just too apathetic and happy with their own lives to care. You say the middle class are lost, just so happens to be the biggest class. You seem to rely on the support of the proletariat and peasants. For one, there isn't really a peasant class in America, two, the proletariat is comprised hugely of the middle class. What's left? The extremely impoverished peoples, and the homeless. These are usually the uneducated. A revolutionary army that can't read is no good.

As said before, you will be a terrorist organization. I do not feel that most people are unhappy with their situation. The large middle class is still doing alright. You can disagree, but I'm firmly sure they aren't doing bad enough to dedicate their lives to a revolution.

I also do not think having a revolution where you have no set political agenda is particularly intelligent. "Hey, that cop you just killed, that was my brother. Why'd you do that?" "Revolution!" "Revolting into what....?"

Okay, and my suggestion to fix these problems? None, I think the plan is too flawed in the first place. For positive action, I suggest forming a group in your local area, preferably just your city, and spreading information. Maybe even going door to door and talking with families and teaching them. If this is national, support will increase drastically, and education goes on the rise as well.

[CompadreGuerrillera]

Comrade Douche, You are exactly right!

However, I should warn you to excersise caution while discussing plans over the internet.

Here is my input, I think that we should all get 100 contacts locally, and 50 out of area contacts, this way those 150 will know another 150, and another 150, and soon enough..... you know.

however, Monks Aflame is extremely correct, in all his points, caution must be a number one key, however, i think that Monks' idea for a peaceful or semi-peaceful revolution is impossible, i think we will never get a 90% of ppl in the party like Russia, so i personally dont know.

[Douche the Bagger]

Correct, my ideas are flawed but thats expected comming from 19 yr old middle class punk who hasnt really found the importance of a fight untill I put thought into it, taking in some pretty crazy stuff most people would say, but its stranger than fiction. There are too many pleasant coincedences(or however the fuck you spell it). Time is running out folks. The people in office are not people, its evil, true evil, demons even, that are discussed in the Bible. You underestimate a revolution in the states, its not just about getting rid of liars and capitalist whores its about the never ending struggle between good and evil. An evil so powerful that it controls most of the world, an evil that kills millions, rapes and exploits the innocent.
You can take me seriously or call me crazy, but I know what Im fighting for.

[elijahcraig]

Bible predictions? Are you even a Marxist?

[Douche the Bagger]

I was using an example, no predictions and as far as being a marxist. I wouldnt say that, I dont really classify myself as any one thing, just keeping an open mind about things. It doesnt hurt.

[dopediana]

DtB, i respect your ambitions, but the means to the end are just amazingly inconsistent. if you blow up a newstation, they'll very easily find you, even more media centers will arise to warn the people of evil, insane, communist rebels who hate america and everything america stands for including free speech and they'll sue your ass for everything you and your family owns. the people you're trying to liberate will be afraid of you and your kind and your ideas and it will just fuck up all other movements, particularly those that have a prayer of working which would be a tragedy exactly because they could work.

[Douche the Bagger]

Do you guys read from the beginning?... Im not planning on doing this overnight or with a group of five. I mean, shit.. All media is about to be privatized and in complete control of corporations, so.. non stop 24hr propaganda and mind control, hmm sounds like a terrific future. Im not going to procede in any action that isnt well thought out and isnt carried out by wreckless imbiciles. The only people at this moment that would help would be punks and non-intellectual, anit-authority juviniles. I know it will take time, communications between revolutionary chapters(maybe some listed on RTF) and detailed analysis of the situation, analysis on the possible actions to be taken by gov't agencies both federal and state, escape routes, safe houses ect ect.. To ensure that no one be caught and that no information be given for the police and oppressive force to act on. Complete secrecy, I know its hard to grasp but there will be a way.

[elijahcraig]

Should you really be talking about this online then?