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Revolucion Compadre
17th August 2006, 10:46
I was just reading online, and came across some things people have said in other forums, and some things caught my attention.

As a person who is here to learn , i just wanted to share and see what you all made out of it.


1st guy wrote about why communism fails?:


1.) In Communism there is no will to work. Everyone is paid the same, you all share resources, so there is no point in working
2.) You will end up with a bunch of Janitors and no doctors. No one will go to school to be a doctor due to the fact they will be paid the same wage as a janitor. Of course then you ask "Doctors become doctors to help people". They wont want to go to school for 8 years of their life learning to become a doctor when they could have just started as a janitor, making money the entire time, not wasting their life away.
3.) People are infact greedy. Someone will always try and take control. And if this person gains control they will infact abuse the people (Stalin)
4.) People need someone telling them what to do. But in Communism they dont have that. You can deny this fact all you wish. But some people do not have the capacity to do something without being told.
5.) Communism is not even supposed to have a leader in the first place. So in reality there is no plausible goverment. And as the past has shown us, people who have tried Communism, end up with an abusive totalitarian government.
6.) Communism takes away freedom and individualism. And well people willinfact not allow this. Some people are natural born leaders. The people will revolt against the 'Communistic' goverment.
It was once said by John Kennedy "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth." Communism infact tries to conform you. And that takes away your freedom. This is ont acceptable to people.
7.) Communism's main point is everyone will be equal. But in reality this is untrue. Some people are fine with being famers, helping the community. While others are greedy. They wish to make money for themselves only. Not for the good of the country. This is infact called human nature.
8.) In communism people dont have to work as hard as possible. Everyone is taken care of. If you dont work as hard as the guy next to you, you still get paid the same. You get a free ride, while the guy next to you, worked his butt off for the so called 'good of the community'. While in Caitalism if you dont work, you have no money, and therefor live on the street. This infact creates the motivation needed to work hard.
9.) Communism assumes everyone is nice, good, and smart. Well this is not true. Not everyone is of the same metal and physical capability. In communism the state owns everything. The money is theirs. So basically the smart people in the goverment get rich off of the unsmart people working for the 'good' of the state. It was once said "Power Corrupts" This is exactly what happens in Communism. Those in power abuse it and basically create a facist goverment....


2nd guy wrote something i found interesting but im not sure?:


Most of the stocks in US are presently owned by the workers (roughly 54%). It seems the workers own most of the businesses, without the dictatorship of the proletariat. Something Marx (dumbass hypocrite that he was) never envisioned

violencia.Proletariat
17th August 2006, 15:25
1.) In Communism there is no will to work. Everyone is paid the same, you all share resources, so there is no point in working

Communism is a moneyless society.


2.) You will end up with a bunch of Janitors and no doctors. No one will go to school to be a doctor due to the fact they will be paid the same wage as a janitor. Of course then you ask "Doctors become doctors to help people". They wont want to go to school for 8 years of their life learning to become a doctor when they could have just started as a janitor, making money the entire time, not wasting their life away.

See above and yes lots of doctors become them so they can help people. If thats not the case whats with the not for profit medical organizations?


3.) People are infact greedy. Someone will always try and take control. And if this person gains control they will infact abuse the people (Stalin)

Haha, as redstar once said "we'll shoot the bastard."

This is an unbacked claim. They try and use the word "nature" as much as possible to sound credible.


4.) People need someone telling them what to do. But in Communism they dont have that. You can deny this fact all you wish. But some people do not have the capacity to do something without being told.

This has all the makings of a horrible arguement. :lol:


5.) Communism is not even supposed to have a leader in the first place. So in reality there is no plausible goverment. And as the past has shown us, people who have tried Communism, end up with an abusive totalitarian government.

Yeah the "communist states" were so totalitarian they killed 1,000,000,000 people :rolleyes:

However this person is correct, communism is a stateless classless society.


Most of the stocks in US are presently owned by the workers (roughly 54%). It seems the workers own most of the businesses, without the dictatorship of the proletariat. Something Marx (dumbass hypocrite that he was) never envisioned

What is the source on that statistic because it's a load of bullshit.

nickdlc
17th August 2006, 19:52
1.) In Communism there is no will to work. Everyone is paid the same, you all share resources, so there is no point in working Indeed there is no point in working, who wants to be bossed around 8 hours a day doing a job that doesn't interest them? Instead of working people will volunteer their time using the technology and resources provided by communist society to be productive.


2.) You will end up with a bunch of Janitors and no doctors. No one will go to school to be a doctor due to the fact they will be paid the same wage as a janitor. Of course then you ask "Doctors become doctors to help people". They wont want to go to school for 8 years of their life learning to become a doctor when they could have just started as a janitor, making money the entire time, not wasting their life away.

Revolucion Compadre I heard that the average doctor in cuba makes $25 american dollars a month yet they have to go through 6 years of schooling. People in the tourist industry in cuba make more money then doctors and don't have to go through 6 years of schooling, yet there are more doctors per person than in the united states. btw my source on this is the nature of things with david suzuki, and i also don't think cuba is socialist but this is an example where your argument is false.

Revolucion Compadre
17th August 2006, 19:58
Revolucion Compadre I heard that the average doctor in cuba makes $25 american dollars a month yet they have to go through 6 years of schooling. People in the tourist industry in cuba make more money then doctors and don't have to go through 6 years of schooling, yet there are more doctors per person than in the united states. btw my source on this is the nature of things with david suzuki, and i also don't think cuba is socialist but this is an example where your argument is false.

My argument is false? :huh: Im not trying to make any arguement here!


I don't know what is the salary of a doctor or a person who works in a tourist attraction, but yes, defenitaly indeed they earn more money than doctors do. And no, the reason why there are more doctors is because you don't understand how the Cuban system works.

Ok, for example, the school of Medicine says, "this year we are going to have 600 students", so they come into your college and say that only 10 openings to go study medicine are available. Then so on and so on, for example nuclear engeneer job 3 are available and so on. So the first to pick are the ones with the highest grade point averages. So you get to pick according to your gradepoint average, so when it gets to you if you are sort of low score you will get a lousy job. So one of the most desirable jobs and that the government encourages is medicine, so most of the people who get to choose first always choose doctors, while those who have low average grade and they wish to become a doctor are fucked.

Talk about fairness huh :D

nickdlc
17th August 2006, 21:07
So you get to pick according to your gradepoint average, so when it gets to you if you are sort of low score you will get a lousy job. So one of the most desirable jobs and that the government encourages is medicine, so most of the people who get to choose first always choose doctors, while those who have low average grade and they wish to become a doctor are fucked. Were not talking about whats fair or not, I also said i dont consider cuba socialist.

The job of the doctor is desirable not because you make $100,000 american dollars but because society and the government deems it desirable. Would these doctors rather work in the tourist industry where they can make more money? How much more does a doctor make compared to other citizens?

Revolucion Compadre
17th August 2006, 21:17
Were not talking about whats fair or not, I also said i dont consider cuba socialist.

The job of the doctor is desirable not because you make $100,000 american dollars but because society and the government deems it desirable. Would these doctors rather work in the tourist industry where they can make more money? How much more does a doctor make compared to other citizens?

Yeah i know it's not fair, and i know Cuba is not socialist, yet many dumb asses here support it as if it was the greatest Marxist nation in the world :lol:

You don't make 100,000 american dollars but you are the highest paid with Cuban pesos, at least one of the highest. All of Cuba gets paid in Cuban pesos except those in the tourist industry which probably make up about .5% of the Cuban population. Yes it's true society and government makes it desirable, because one of the government's agenda is lots of doctors, and they send them to missions in Venezuela and African countries. Would they rather work in tourist industry? You bet they will. Like i said, doctors are one of the highest paid in Cuban society, they are the elite workers.

Sabocat
18th August 2006, 00:33
So the first to pick are the ones with the highest grade point averages. So you get to pick according to your gradepoint average, so when it gets to you if you are sort of low score you will get a lousy job. So one of the most desirable jobs and that the government encourages is medicine, so most of the people who get to choose first always choose doctors, while those who have low average grade and they wish to become a doctor are fucked.


Talk about fairness huh biggrin.gif


I hate to point out the obvious but....

Would you really want less intelligent people being doctors? Could someone less intelligent have the ability to be a doctor or an engineer? Is it about fairness or reality?

Revolucion Compadre
18th August 2006, 00:40
I hate to point out the obvious but....

Would you really want less intelligent people being doctors? Could someone less intelligent have the ability to be a doctor or an engineer? Is it about fairness or reality?

Tests in school don't mean anything.

Did you know Einstein use to get really bad grades IN MATH! when he was in school?

it's about opportunity, its about chasing your dreams if your a hard worker.

Solitary Mind
18th August 2006, 01:12
Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 17 2006, 09:41 PM

I hate to point out the obvious but....

Would you really want less intelligent people being doctors? Could someone less intelligent have the ability to be a doctor or an engineer? Is it about fairness or reality?

Tests in school don't mean anything.

Did you know Einstein use to get really bad grades IN MATH! when he was in school?

it's about opportunity, its about chasing your dreams if your a hard worker.
well then your talking about taking a risk. not everyone is einstein. i would prefer if i was being operated on, the more statistically proven doctor. for other things, i wouldn't mind..but for a doctor, one who has proven he has knowledge is the better choice