In communism...

[TheGreatOne]

who would be the police force?

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

The People themselves - everheard of community action? :)

[TheGreatOne]

Mob rule, eh? I thought it was decided that that was a bad idea a few hundred years ago.

[More Fire for the People]

I would rather have a people's mob [civilian guards] than a capitalist's mob [the police].

[TheGreatOne]

Yes, but who decides who the individual civilian guards are? If the guards were elected, wouldn't they be in a position of power over everyone else? If the guards aren't elected, anyone could become one and it would essentially become mob rule because everyone would be allowed to take matters into their own hands.

[More Fire for the People]

I think every member between the ages of 16 and 55 of a communal assembly should serve as a civilian guard. Not all of them at once but upon a rotaional basis. 1%-2% of the commune could be called up to be a civilian guard one month and the next month another 1%-2% could be called up.

[TheGreatOne]

What if I don't want to be a civilian guard? Would it be an obligation? And what about those members who are physically or mentally unable to perform such a duty?

[Revolucion Compadre]

I think every member between the ages of 16 and 55 of a communal assembly should serve as a civilian guard. Not all of them at once but upon a rotaional basis. 1%-2% of the commune could be called up to be a civilian guard one month and the next month another 1%-2% could be called up.

Yeah, this is like mandatory army service, like a draft? I dont like that. Plus you can't just take some random people and put them in uniform and give them such power and expect them to their job correctly, they need training and knowledge of how things are done right?

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 10:38 AM
What if I don't want to be a civilian guard? Would it be an obligation? And what about those members who are physically or mentally unable to perform such a duty?
Then you wouldn't have too and those who are physically and mentally unable would not have too. Your commune may ostricize you for not doing your duty but there wouldn't be any punishments for it.

[KC]

Why the hell would we need guards and shit?

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Hopscotch Anthill+Aug 17 2006, 03:00 AM--> (Hopscotch Anthill @ Aug 17 2006, 03:00 AM)
[email protected] 16 2006, 10:38 AM
What if I don't want to be a civilian guard? Would it be an obligation? And what about those members who are physically or mentally unable to perform such a duty?
Then you wouldn't have too and those who are physically and mentally unable would not have too. Your commune may ostricize you for not doing your duty but there wouldn't be any punishments for it. [/b]
Fuck that, no one in 'my community' is going to be ostracised because they dont wanna play copper for a week :angry:

[elmo sez]

why exaclty would we need police , petty crime would be vitually 0. Robbery would be pointless , so would counterfitting , bank robberys , car theft , breaking into houses . Sure there might be murders and rapists , but that could be dealt with be a special investigator unit or something

[Delta]

Originally posted by Khayembii [email protected] 16 2006, 10:05 AM
Why the hell would we need guards and shit?
I agree, what would be the police's responsibilities? They wouldn't be going around looking for drugs, giving parking tickets, or anything like that.

If a group of people came through the community killing people or destroying stuff, the community would rise up and defend itself. If the problem was bad, then people would volunteer for a short-term militia that would fix the problem. But you don't need regular soldiers or a standing army. If it's shortly after the revolution, many people will already have experience shooting a gun. And in any case, I think basic gun training would be beneficial to all who live in the community and we should encourage them to undertake it if they are so inclined.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Black Dagger+Aug 16 2006, 11:05 AM--> (Black Dagger @ Aug 16 2006, 11:05 AM)
Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 17 2006, 03:00 AM

[email protected] 16 2006, 10:38 AM
What if I don't want to be a civilian guard? Would it be an obligation? And what about those members who are physically or mentally unable to perform such a duty?
Then you wouldn't have too and those who are physically and mentally unable would not have too. Your commune may ostricize you for not doing your duty but there wouldn't be any punishments for it.
Fuck that, no one in 'my community' is going to be ostracised because they dont wanna play copper for a week :angry: [/b]
I'm talking about during and shortly after the revolution. They would not be 'coppers'. They can't enter someones home, they can't make arbitrary arrests. There only goal would to be stop fascists and murderers. Hence the name ‘civilian guards’ a group of civilians who help to guard other civilians.

[Phalanx]

Considering capitalism is the cause for most of the crime today, why would their be a need for a police force? The Fascists would have been killed/given up during the revolution, so it's not like we would have to deal with them.

A People's Militia could take care of all the cleaning up that had to be done, but after the revolution I don't see crime being a problem.

[More Fire for the People]

Right CK, when I say ‘civilian guard’ I mean all its other names as well ‘people’s militia’, ‘civilian brigades’, etc.

[Revolucion Compadre]

Im sorry guys, but i just don't comprehend this idea, i mean i do understand it, but something tells me this is just bogus. First of all crime will not be eliminated, what about rape and mass murdering psychopaths? You say the community will take care of that, so you believe in the people taking matters into their own hand, we all know that is utopian, since yeah the average person is an expirienced detective :rolleyes: pss....Plus, how will society keep itself in check? What is it going to keep from say a group of teens forming their own guerrila factions, have you guys ever seen Clockwork Orange?

[TheGreatOne]

I'm fairly convinced that an organized detective/policing force, however small, is necesary. Consider this scenario: I catch my wife cheating with a man, and the entire community finds out about my outrage. Three days later, the man turns up dead in a river, as a result of a completely separate incident which is unknown to me and the community. Who is going to protect me from the people, who will assume that I murdered him and will want me punished?

[More Fire for the People]

First of all, why are you upset that a female who co-habitates with you leaves you for another person? That's her right.

[TheGreatOne]

Assume that we have pledged our love and faithfulness to one another. That's fairly irrelevent, anyway.

[Revolucion Compadre]

First of all, why are you upset that a female who co-habitates with you leaves you for another person? That's her right.

:lol: You really are funny, i think you just live in another world. Yeah i mean why would i get frustrated if my dad slaps my mother, it's his right! :rolleyes: Or if he goes fucking other woman, it's his right as well.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 16 2006, 01:31 PM

First of all, why are you upset that a female who co-habitates with you leaves you for another person? That's her right.

:lol: You really are funny, i think you just live in another world. Yeah i mean why would i get frustrated if my dad slaps my mother, it's his right! :rolleyes: Or if he goes fucking other woman, it's his right as well.
It is not anyone's right to attack someon based upon gender. It is any adults right to have consensual sexual relations.

[TheGreatOne]

Alright, back on topic. I'm trying to learn here.

[Revolucion Compadre]

It is not anyone's right to attack someon based upon gender. It is any adults right to have consensual sexual relations.

Who says it's about gender stupid? Since when has a jelous attack has been because of gender? Where do you get this from men? Obviously if you find your wife fucking another stranger your not going to say " Ohh it's ok, it's her right, ill just leave them alone, wash the dishes!"

Of course it's their right to have a consensual sexual relation, just like it's my right to take my dick out in the street and take a piss, or kill someone if i wanted to, it's all within my rights isn't it?


Alright, back on topic. I'm trying to learn here.

Fair enough, as you have seen, no police force and people taking matters into their own hands is not going to work and it's conflictive and utopian.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

You say the community will take care of that, so you believe in the people taking matters into their own hand, we all know that is utopian, since yeah the average person is an expirienced detective :rolleyes:

It's a good point. Crime investigations are complicated and it requires education and expert knowledge.

[TheGreatOne]

As far as I can see, giving someone (or some small group of people) the ability to judge someone else's fate is essentially giving them power over someone else, but power quickly leads to corruption and unfairness.

[Delta]

Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 16 2006, 12:39 PM
Of course it's their right to have a consensual sexual relation, just like it's my right to take my dick out in the street and take a piss, or kill someone if i wanted to, it's all within my rights isn't it?
Are you actually equating have a consensual sexual relation with killing someone? :blink:


As far as I can see, giving someone (or some small group of people) the ability to judge someone else's fate is essentially giving them power over someone else, but power quickly leads to corruption and unfairness

So you're in favor of a citizen's militia right? Having a state impose a police force and having judges decide the fate of others concentrates power much more than the citizen's militia, which doesn't have the power to decide the fate of others anyway.

[Dyst]

I don't see the problem with people organizing and educating themselves about detective work, and working as detectives in a communist society.

Note that almost all crime incentive would be gone though, except rape and murder I guess.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 05:45 PM
Note that almost all crime incentive would be gone though, except rape and murder I guess.
Even rape and murder have incentives under capitalism!

Capitalism puts a price on sex, in one way or another. For many people, it's simply unobtainable. Rape is simply one way of stealing sex. Now, not all rape is a product of capitalism. There will still be some people who can be catagorized as insane!

And on to murder. Why do most people commit acts of murder? Jealously? Money? Greed? All attributes of a capitalist society. And, like rape, there will still be some murder, done mostly by insane people.

Acts of murder and rape in a communist society will most likely be too few and far between to get too worked up about.

[TheGreatOne]

Ok....no. People rape because they want to feel power over another person. It has nothing to do with not be able to afford a woman. It's not even about the sex, usually.

Murder, I will concede, generally is because of greed. But I doubt it would be done away with, even in a society where no one has any reason to be jealous of what another person has (other than, perhaps, a partner).