Karl Marx's Camel
15th August 2006, 00:59
At a conservative forum I set up a discussion regarding Cuba. While most of them where off-topic and childish, I think one of them brought some interesting points. I posted an article that defends Cuba's electoral system.
http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0512-danchr.asp
He responded, and I was wondering what you think of his comments?
I will copy it here:
At the close of nominations, registered voters in attendance vote by a show of hands.
This procedure is clearly against democratic standards: ordinary citizens must show their allegiance. We rightfuly demand that from our elected officials, but ordinary, powerless citizens, who can be persecuted with ease, by either the police or fanaticaly loyal locals, should always be allowed to keep their prefference hidden. This clearly demonstrates un-democratic nature at nomination level.
In any given constituency, there will typically be between two
and eight candidates for one or more seats on the
municipal assembly.
In other words, most candidates won the election by the initial show of hands already. Even in this pro-Cuban article, full of propaganda and distortions, flaws in the "perfect" system are falling out at the seams.
Elections are very low key affairs. Standardized posters with photographs and a brief biography of each candidate are simply posted in public places.
In other words, the voters are obliged to choose their candidate on the basis of their looks and a brief history of their lives. Their agenda, ideas, or possible changes they might do to their daily lives are to be none of their concern.
This is not democracy. It's closer to feudalism than democratic republic.
Candidates for the provincial and national assemblies are nominated not by the Communist Party or any mass organization as in times past, but by the municipal assemblies. Unlike the delegates to municipal assembly, they need not reside in that municipality. To get the best candidates, the municipal assemblies consult with local and national plenums of various mass organizations.
I do wonder who these mass organizations include: the Communist party is one, party-dominated unions is second, Communist youth is another...
What the above article says is essentialy this: the Communist party doesn't state who will be the candidate, but mearly points to who the best candidates (according to them) are. And you claim this to be a democracy? Get real.
The Provincial and National Elections and the United Vote
Unlike the municipal elections, there is only one candidate nominated for each seat.
How is having only one candidate for one seat democratic in any way?
Incidentaly, what happens if someone doesn't reach the 50% required treshold to get in? This "article" misses it out completely. I do wonder why that is - I'll make a guess: it never actually happened, and it is never destined to happen. The voters know their district will be penalised if anything like that happens - this was the custom in the Commie world.
As happens from time to time, if constituents are unsatisfied with their delegate they can recall him or her and hold another election.
Curiously missing are the requirements to do so. Do they need to collect a number of signatures, or is three people showing up at the office enough? I'm asking because we got a detailed breakdown of backgrounds on the 1998 election candidates, and this isn't exactly a trivial detail of the voting system.
Once it is established, it nominates and elects the 31 member Council of State including the President (Fidel Castro).
Why is Fidel noted here? It seems as if they are not allowed to elect anyone else.
The last paragraph is just more propaganda.
The only truthful part that I do not object to are the backgrounds of the people who got elected and the way the local authority is divided. I trust the author that he got those details correct - and if he didn't, they don't actually mean anything about democracy anyway. Every emperor needs his governors, however they are called.
-----------------------------------------------------------
What do you think?
Regarding secret ballot. Doesn't the fact that people have to raise their hands in the air to show who they support, prove that there is not a secret ballot (on local level?)?
http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0512-danchr.asp
He responded, and I was wondering what you think of his comments?
I will copy it here:
At the close of nominations, registered voters in attendance vote by a show of hands.
This procedure is clearly against democratic standards: ordinary citizens must show their allegiance. We rightfuly demand that from our elected officials, but ordinary, powerless citizens, who can be persecuted with ease, by either the police or fanaticaly loyal locals, should always be allowed to keep their prefference hidden. This clearly demonstrates un-democratic nature at nomination level.
In any given constituency, there will typically be between two
and eight candidates for one or more seats on the
municipal assembly.
In other words, most candidates won the election by the initial show of hands already. Even in this pro-Cuban article, full of propaganda and distortions, flaws in the "perfect" system are falling out at the seams.
Elections are very low key affairs. Standardized posters with photographs and a brief biography of each candidate are simply posted in public places.
In other words, the voters are obliged to choose their candidate on the basis of their looks and a brief history of their lives. Their agenda, ideas, or possible changes they might do to their daily lives are to be none of their concern.
This is not democracy. It's closer to feudalism than democratic republic.
Candidates for the provincial and national assemblies are nominated not by the Communist Party or any mass organization as in times past, but by the municipal assemblies. Unlike the delegates to municipal assembly, they need not reside in that municipality. To get the best candidates, the municipal assemblies consult with local and national plenums of various mass organizations.
I do wonder who these mass organizations include: the Communist party is one, party-dominated unions is second, Communist youth is another...
What the above article says is essentialy this: the Communist party doesn't state who will be the candidate, but mearly points to who the best candidates (according to them) are. And you claim this to be a democracy? Get real.
The Provincial and National Elections and the United Vote
Unlike the municipal elections, there is only one candidate nominated for each seat.
How is having only one candidate for one seat democratic in any way?
Incidentaly, what happens if someone doesn't reach the 50% required treshold to get in? This "article" misses it out completely. I do wonder why that is - I'll make a guess: it never actually happened, and it is never destined to happen. The voters know their district will be penalised if anything like that happens - this was the custom in the Commie world.
As happens from time to time, if constituents are unsatisfied with their delegate they can recall him or her and hold another election.
Curiously missing are the requirements to do so. Do they need to collect a number of signatures, or is three people showing up at the office enough? I'm asking because we got a detailed breakdown of backgrounds on the 1998 election candidates, and this isn't exactly a trivial detail of the voting system.
Once it is established, it nominates and elects the 31 member Council of State including the President (Fidel Castro).
Why is Fidel noted here? It seems as if they are not allowed to elect anyone else.
The last paragraph is just more propaganda.
The only truthful part that I do not object to are the backgrounds of the people who got elected and the way the local authority is divided. I trust the author that he got those details correct - and if he didn't, they don't actually mean anything about democracy anyway. Every emperor needs his governors, however they are called.
-----------------------------------------------------------
What do you think?
Regarding secret ballot. Doesn't the fact that people have to raise their hands in the air to show who they support, prove that there is not a secret ballot (on local level?)?